PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance

Durham

Yea told you guys they do not have a plan of action for the stam dk... Stam DK = Tank in the mind of ZOS...

BohnT

Durham wrote: »

Yea told you guys they do not have a plan of action for the stam dk... Stam DK = Tank in the mind of ZOS...

No they said they won't do any changes for any class.
Rip Stamdk, rip stamwarden, rip stamplar

Will be fun time playing stamnb, magsorc, magnb and stamwarden for another 3 months because they are just better than the rest

MaxwellC

Time after time the so called "feedback" clearly gets ignored & all the white knights come out of the wood work trying to smoother ZOS with support.
Stam DK literally has been on the back burner for quite sometime now and it's truly a disgrace that the class I've always played, consistently gets weaker while every other class remains stronger/receives notable changes that increases their damage or helps bring it inline with other classes who are already perform far better than Stam DK in PvP.

Thanks @ZOS_Wrobel Greatest developer ever

ZOS_JesC

Greetings we removed some comments that were of topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep the conversation on topic and comments constructive. Thanks for your understanding.

ak_pvp

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings we removed some comments that were of topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep the conversation on topic and comments constructive. Thanks for your understanding.

The devs can't keep the patch notes on topic, because everyone really wants a 5% change to imbue and a single target heal channel

Why does this thread exist again?

Riggsy

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings we removed some comments that were of topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep the conversation on topic and comments constructive. Thanks for your understanding.

You might as well just close this thread. I found it on page 4 a day after the latest patch notes dropped... Tells you all you need to know about how us DKs feel about the direction.

Toc de Malsvi

CC bug that is specifically affecting Petrify:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411669/bug-cc-immunity-petrify#latest

Rungar

no matter what minor change you make to inferno it will be sub par for mag dks because inner light gives 7%mag and 2% regen.

You have to change it to be on par with inner light to make it useful.

my suggestion:

the buff last for 30 seconds and can only fire one time but wont fire unless a nearby (15m range) player or enemy is under 30% and also includes a single target dot component for 8 seconds (so equal overall dmg/healing but more useful format)

the other parts can stay the same.

CaliMade

Rungar wrote: »

no matter what minor change you make to inferno it will be sub par for mag dks because inner light gives 7%mag and 2% regen.

You have to change it to be on par with inner light to make it useful.

my suggestion:

the buff last for 30 seconds and can only fire one time but wont fire unless a nearby (15m range) player or enemy is under 30% and also includes a single target dot component for 8 seconds (so equal overall dmg/healing but more useful format)

the other parts can stay the same.

OR

Just have it grant 6% max mag and Stam while slotted

Nicko_Lps

BohnT wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Yea told you guys they do not have a plan of action for the stam dk... Stam DK = Tank in the mind of ZOS...

No they said they won't do any changes for any class.
Rip Stamdk, rip stamwarden, rip stamplar

Will be fun time playing stamnb, magsorc, magnb and stamwarden for another 3 months because they are just better than the rest

Rip stamDK?

Dude before you whine on forums without having a single clue on what youre saying just download the PTS and try the classes you came to whine about, stamDK is a killer. 44k5 dps 6 mil dummy no cheese self buff 280ms ping and 680ms lagspikes and a dumbed down rotation.

Besides stamblade and stamplar that are abit tricky all the rest stamina classes in the game are insanely OP and easy to play.

Stamina is STILL more dps output by far,but you had to whine about magsorc that has at least 4k less dps than stamDK.

ak_pvp

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Yea told you guys they do not have a plan of action for the stam dk... Stam DK = Tank in the mind of ZOS...

No they said they won't do any changes for any class.
Rip Stamdk, rip stamwarden, rip stamplar

Will be fun time playing stamnb, magsorc, magnb and stamwarden for another 3 months because they are just better than the rest

Rip stamDK?

Dude before you whine on forums without having a single clue on what youre saying just download the PTS and try the classes you came to whine about, stamDK is a killer. 44k5 dps 6 mil dummy no cheese self buff 280ms ping and 680ms lagspikes and a dumbed down rotation.

Besides stamblade and stamplar that are abit tricky all the rest stamina classes in the game are insanely OP and easy to play.

Stamina is STILL more dps output by far,but you had to whine about magsorc that has at least 4k less dps than stamDK.

Dude before you whine on forums without having a single clue on what you;re saying just realize that its about PvP. StamDK sux there.

Nicko_Lps

ak_pvp wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Yea told you guys they do not have a plan of action for the stam dk... Stam DK = Tank in the mind of ZOS...

No they said they won't do any changes for any class.
Rip Stamdk, rip stamwarden, rip stamplar

Will be fun time playing stamnb, magsorc, magnb and stamwarden for another 3 months because they are just better than the rest

Rip stamDK?

Dude before you whine on forums without having a single clue on what youre saying just download the PTS and try the classes you came to whine about, stamDK is a killer. 44k5 dps 6 mil dummy no cheese self buff 280ms ping and 680ms lagspikes and a dumbed down rotation.

Besides stamblade and stamplar that are abit tricky all the rest stamina classes in the game are insanely OP and easy to play.

Stamina is STILL more dps output by far,but you had to whine about magsorc that has at least 4k less dps than stamDK.

Dude before you whine on forums without having a single clue on what you;re saying just realize that its about PvP. StamDK sux there.

Indeed stamDK needs some love on pvp,but since your post did not mention anything about PVP i replied accordingly.

Im not whining,you are i just answered giving a handkerchief and my shoulder for you to cry on.

CaliMade

Just brainstorming changes here.
Trying to be constructive.


Elder Dragon- grants major fortitude, also returns an additonal 1000 magic and Stamina when you kill an enemy with the Dragon leap ultimate ability. This amount does not increase depending on number of enemies killed.

Change molten whip to a physical damage. Renamed this ability to Poisonous lash

Poisonous Lash- Deals X physical damage and deals an additinal X poison damage over 4 seconds to targets under 25% health.

Green Dragons Blood- Reduce cost by
40%.

Iron Skin- This ability reduces that amount of damage you block by 10% and increases spell resistance by 3300 when wearing 5 or more peices of heavy armor.

Scaled Armor- This passive grants 660 physical and Spell resistance per peice of light or medium armor worn.

Reflective scales- Reflect up to 2 projectiles back at your enemy. The number of projectiles refected from
This abiltiy now increases depending on the number of negative effects you have on you. Starting from 2. (Ex. If you have 2 negative effects on you you reflect 3 projectiles, but if you have 5 negative effects on you, this number is increased to 6.)

Reflective Plate- This ability removes snares and grands snare and root immunity for 3 seconds.

Molten Weapons- Reduced the Cost of this ability to 1300 magic. This skill as a base ability grants both major Sorcery and brutality for 36 seconds.

Igneous weapons- this ability grants a heal to your light and heavy attacks.

Dark talons- this ability now applies minor maim as a base ability.

Choking talons-Now cost stamina and deals physical damage with a X damage poison Dot. renamed this morph to “Toxic Grip”

Inhale- this ability now interrupts as a base abiltiy.

Deep breath-this abiliy Now deals Philysical damage, cost stamina and grands 2% reduced damage taken Per enemy hit with inhale up to a maximum 10%. Exhale applies minor befoul to each enemy hit for 6 seconds. Renamed this morph to Bracing Inhale. The inhale portion of this ability does not heal.

Helping hands- this ability no longer granta stamina on eah cast of a earthen heart ability- it now grants minor- endurance and minor intellect for 10 seconds whenever you cast a earthen heart ability.

Obsidian Sheild- this ability now returns 990 stamina on each cast as a base ability. Reduced the cost of this ability to 2700 magicka.

Volatile Armor- This ability now returns physical damage instead of magic damage. Increase damage returned by 30%.


Magma armor- this ability increases the effectiveness of volatile armor returned damage and DOT by 100% for its duration.

Magma Shell- This ability now heals all allies effected by the barrier for X health over 5 Seconds. This excludes the caster.


Burning Embers- Reduced the heal from this ability by 30%.


Flame Lash- The power lash proc from this ability now heals you even if the ability is dodged.


Like i said Just brain storming, so dont get all toxic if you dont agree.

IZZEFlameLash

CaliMade wrote: »

Just brainstorming changes here.
Trying to be constructive.


Elder Dragon- grants major fortitude, also returns an additonal 1000 magic and Stamina when you kill an enemy with the Dragon leap ultimate ability. This amount does not increase depending on number of enemies killed.

Change molten whip to a physical damage. Renamed this ability to Poisonous lash

Poisonous Lash- Deals X physical damage and deals an additinal X poison damage over 4 seconds to targets under 25% health.

Green Dragons Blood- Reduce cost by
40%.

Iron Skin- This ability reduces that amount of damage you block by 10% and increases spell resistance by 3300 when wearing 5 or more peices of heavy armor.

Scaled Armor- This passive grants 660 physical and Spell resistance per peice of light or medium armor worn.

Reflective scales- Reflect up to 2 projectiles back at your enemy. The number of projectiles refected from
This abiltiy now increases depending on the number of negative effects you have on you. Starting from 2. (Ex. If you have 2 negative effects on you you reflect 3 projectiles, but if you have 5 negative effects on you, this number is increased to 6.)

Reflective Plate- This ability removes snares and grands snare and root immunity for 3 seconds.

Molten Weapons- Reduced the Cost of this ability to 1300 magic. This skill as a base ability grants both major Sorcery and brutality for 36 seconds.

Igneous weapons- this ability grants a heal to your light and heavy attacks.

Dark talons- this ability now applies minor maim as a base ability.

Choking talons-Now cost stamina and deals physical damage with a X damage poison Dot. renamed this morph to “Toxic Grip”

Inhale- this ability now interrupts as a base abiltiy.

Deep breath-this abiliy Now deals Philysical damage, cost stamina and grands 2% reduced damage taken Per enemy hit with inhale up to a maximum 10%. Exhale applies minor befoul to each enemy hit for 6 seconds. Renamed this morph to Bracing Inhale. The inhale portion of this ability does not heal.

Helping hands- this ability no longer granta stamina on eah cast of a earthen heart ability- it now grants minor- endurance and minor intellect for 10 seconds whenever you cast a earthen heart ability.

Obsidian Sheild- this ability now returns 990 stamina on each cast as a base ability. Reduced the cost of this ability to 2700 magicka.

Volatile Armor- This ability now returns physical damage instead of magic damage. Increase damage returned by 30%.


Magma armor- this ability increases the effectiveness of volatile armor returned damage and DOT by 100% for its duration.

Magma Shell- This ability now heals all allies effected by the barrier for X health over 5 Seconds. This excludes the caster.


Burning Embers- Reduced the heal from this ability by 30%.


Flame Lash- The power lash proc from this ability now heals you even if the ability is dodged.


Like i said Just brain storming, so dont get all toxic if you dont agree.

I wouldn't make resource return based on ulti kill condition. Because DKs rarely get killing blow unless solo and just too far in between when in open world. Perhaps move combustion's resource return to elder dragon passive wirh cooldown and turn combustion into something that boosts dot like unpurgeable for set amount of early duration.

Nicko_Lps

CaliMade wrote: »

Just brainstorming changes here.
Trying to be constructive.


Elder Dragon- grants major fortitude, also returns an additonal 1000 magic and Stamina when you kill an enemy with the Dragon leap ultimate ability. This amount does not increase depending on number of enemies killed.

Change molten whip to a physical damage. Renamed this ability to Poisonous lash

Poisonous Lash- Deals X physical damage and deals an additinal X poison damage over 4 seconds to targets under 25% health.

Green Dragons Blood- Reduce cost by
40%.

Iron Skin- This ability reduces that amount of damage you block by 10% and increases spell resistance by 3300 when wearing 5 or more peices of heavy armor.

Scaled Armor- This passive grants 660 physical and Spell resistance per peice of light or medium armor worn.

Reflective scales- Reflect up to 2 projectiles back at your enemy. The number of projectiles refected from
This abiltiy now increases depending on the number of negative effects you have on you. Starting from 2. (Ex. If you have 2 negative effects on you you reflect 3 projectiles, but if you have 5 negative effects on you, this number is increased to 6.)

Reflective Plate- This ability removes snares and grands snare and root immunity for 3 seconds.

Molten Weapons- Reduced the Cost of this ability to 1300 magic. This skill as a base ability grants both major Sorcery and brutality for 36 seconds.

Igneous weapons- this ability grants a heal to your light and heavy attacks.

Dark talons- this ability now applies minor maim as a base ability.

Choking talons-Now cost stamina and deals physical damage with a X damage poison Dot. renamed this morph to “Toxic Grip”

Inhale- this ability now interrupts as a base abiltiy.

Deep breath-this abiliy Now deals Philysical damage, cost stamina and grands 2% reduced damage taken Per enemy hit with inhale up to a maximum 10%. Exhale applies minor befoul to each enemy hit for 6 seconds. Renamed this morph to Bracing Inhale. The inhale portion of this ability does not heal.

Helping hands- this ability no longer granta stamina on eah cast of a earthen heart ability- it now grants minor- endurance and minor intellect for 10 seconds whenever you cast a earthen heart ability.

Obsidian Sheild- this ability now returns 990 stamina on each cast as a base ability. Reduced the cost of this ability to 2700 magicka.

Volatile Armor- This ability now returns physical damage instead of magic damage. Increase damage returned by 30%.


Magma armor- this ability increases the effectiveness of volatile armor returned damage and DOT by 100% for its duration.

Magma Shell- This ability now heals all allies effected by the barrier for X health over 5 Seconds. This excludes the caster.


Burning Embers- Reduced the heal from this ability by 30%.


Flame Lash- The power lash proc from this ability now heals you even if the ability is dodged.


Like i said Just brain storming, so dont get all toxic if you dont agree.

Trying to fix a useless spec on PVP and make it godlike wont work.

Just give DK's a stamina morph on talons and cheap spammable stamwhip and all will be perfect,nothing else needed.

Lets not forget that DK's have only 2 stamina morphs,while the master forumwhiner nightblade has almost everything in a stamina morph.

Rungar

CaliMade wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

no matter what minor change you make to inferno it will be sub par for mag dks because inner light gives 7%mag and 2% regen.

You have to change it to be on par with inner light to make it useful.

my suggestion:

the buff last for 30 seconds and can only fire one time but wont fire unless a nearby (15m range) player or enemy is under 30% and also includes a single target dot component for 8 seconds (so equal overall dmg/healing but more useful format)

the other parts can stay the same.

OR

Just have it grant 6% max mag and Stam while slotted

i believe the point of the update was to improve the healer role of the dk as it is abysmal and two things missing from dk are execute and oh snap emergency heal.

that would resolve both of those issues in a way thats fair. 6% mag/stam/major prophecy and the dps or heal seems a little over the top and not balanced and the heal is still useless.

MaxwellC

@CaliMade
Interesting changes but a few I don't agree with but nonetheless I find 80% of the changes pretty decent. One thing I wanna say is the wing should only give immunity to snare & I still want this ability to be stam but that's my opinion.

Bodycounter

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings we removed some comments that were of topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep the conversation on topic and comments constructive. Thanks for your understanding.

Who cares anymore? You guys are not doing your job anyway, this whole PTS cycle and most of the constructive posts in this forum have been ignored completely! Do not act if you do not deserve an uproar of the small player base that is still active in this forum and keeps trying to improve the game.

devilymoonb16_ESO

19 pages about PVP...
Any condideration for PVE, or is it too hard for you guys ?

WhiteNoiseMaker

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Finn

Small possible Bug Report:

The Igneus Shield multiplier for the caster, including the additional +200% does not seem to be applied correctly, at least not according to the descriptor text.

When I tested, the base shield amount was 3741 after applied CP (56 into Bastion). According to the descriptor, the casting DK should receive an additional +200% to the base shield value (for a net total of 300%).

Therefore the shield *should* be applied at around a value of 11,241.
However upon casting the applied shield seems to not be calculated correctly, being applied at a strength of 9977. This seems to be ignoring the calculations for the Bastion increase of 20% by approximately negative 13-14% of the base.

Any chance this still time for someone's attention before the Live release?

ak_pvp

devilymoonb16_ESO wrote: »

19 pages about PVP...
Any condideration for PVE, or is it too hard for you guys ?

Both DKs appear to be in good shape for PvE, and will be good tanks still. DK healing is a bit of a meme though, since they provide nothing aside from healing, that a tank wouldn't.

PvP is where both DKs need help. One is decent overall, but bad openworld and been nerfed heavily and only appears decent because everything else was nerfed too. The other one is the worst class in the game for PvP.

Anti_Virus

CaliMade wrote: »

Just brainstorming changes here.
Trying to be constructive.


Elder Dragon- grants major fortitude, also returns an additonal 1000 magic and Stamina when you kill an enemy with the Dragon leap ultimate ability. This amount does not increase depending on number of enemies killed.

Cool but I recommend that is gives magic stam and Hp recovery per Dragonic ability slotted

Change molten whip to a physical damage. Renamed this ability to Poisonous lash

Poisonous Lash- Deals X physical damage and deals an additinal X poison damage over 4 seconds to targets under 25% health.

sounds great except the execute part stam dks don't really need a class execute. I would get rid of the 25% execute damge and then is a good idea

Green Dragons Blood- Reduce cost by
40%.

I believe 10% reduction in cost will be best

Iron Skin- This ability reduces that amount of damage you block by 10% and increases spell resistance by 3300 when wearing 5 or more peices of heavy armor.

passive is fine as is imo

Scaled Armor- This passive grants 660 physical and Spell resistance per peice of light or medium armor worn.

simple fix would be to include 3300 physical resistance in addition to the passive

Reflective scales- Reflect up to 2 projectiles back at your enemy. The number of projectiles refected from
This abiltiy now increases depending on the number of negative effects you have on you. Starting from 2. (Ex. If you have 2 negative effects on you you reflect 3 projectiles, but if you have 5 negative effects on you, this number is increased to 6.)

might be OP it should have the warden shimmering shield treatment if anything but only at half effectiveness

Reflective Plate- This ability removes snares and grands snare and root immunity for 3 seconds.

what the skill should have included in the 1st place

Molten Weapons- Reduced the Cost of this ability to 1300 magic. This skill as a base ability grants both major Sorcery and brutality for 36 seconds.

Igneous weapons- this ability grants a heal to your light and heavy attacks.

good one here

Dark talons- this ability now applies minor maim as a base ability.

Choking talons-Now cost stamina and deals physical damage with a X damage poison Dot. renamed this morph to “Toxic Grip”

yes excellent idea here

Inhale- this ability now interrupts as a base abiltiy.

Deep breath-this abiliy Now deals Philysical damage, cost stamina and grands 2% reduced damage taken Per enemy hit with inhale up to a maximum 10%. Exhale applies minor befoul to each enemy hit for 6 seconds. Renamed this morph to Bracing Inhale. The inhale portion of this ability does not heal.

Helping hands- this ability no longer grants stamina on eah cast of a earthen heart ability- it now grants minor- endurance and minor intellect for 10 seconds whenever you cast a earthen heart ability.

meh I like how it is currently

Obsidian Sheild- this ability now returns 990 stamina on each cast as a base ability. Reduced the cost of this ability to 2700 magicka.

read above

Volatile Armor- This ability now returns physical damage instead of magic damage. Increase damage returned by 30%.

should be hardened armor instead imo

Magma armor- this ability increases the effectiveness of volatile armor returned damage and DOT by 100% for its duration.

Magma Shell- This ability now heals all allies effected by the barrier for X health over 5 Seconds. This excludes the caster.


Burning Embers- Reduced the heal from this ability by 30%.


Flame Lash- The power lash proc from this ability now heals you even if the ability is dodged.


Like i said Just brain storming, so dont get all toxic if you dont agree.

Bold text is my responses. But all in all a few suggestions here seem reasonable.

Twohothardware

Can this new Stamina return from the Combustion passive even proc at all against Argonians and Wood Elves which make up half the player base in PvP right now when they have immunity to disease and poison?

zParallaxz

Twohothardware wrote: »

Can this new Stamina return from the Combustion passive even proc at all against Argonians and Wood Elves which make up half the player base in PvP right now when they have immunity to disease and poison?

Nope

Toc de Malsvi

zParallaxz wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Can this new Stamina return from the Combustion passive even proc at all against Argonians and Wood Elves which make up half the player base in PvP right now when they have immunity to disease and poison?

Nope

Which is some feedback for the developers. Thanks for the sustain buff, but could they at least make it proc like crits on shields. No status debuff for those races, but give me my resources.

Twohothardware

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Can this new Stamina return from the Combustion passive even proc at all against Argonians and Wood Elves which make up half the player base in PvP right now when they have immunity to disease and poison?

Nope

Which is some feedback for the developers. Thanks for the sustain buff, but could they at least make it proc like crits on shields. No status debuff for those races, but give me my resources.

This definitely needs to happen or it was a completely useless change for PvP given the number of Argonians and Wood Elves because of poor Race balancing.

MaxwellC

Instead of giving cinderstorm and petrify a heal they could've made igneous shield give a heal to allies while returning the major mending time to its duration.

Igneous shield Updated: Call the earth to your defense, granting a damage shield for you and nearby allies that absorbs X damage. Your own damage shield absorbs 200% additional damage.

You also gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25% for 7 seconds & when the shield is broken or expires on your ally, they will receive X health back.
@ZOS_Wrobel

ak_pvp

MaxwellC wrote: »

Instead of giving cinderstorm and petrify a heal they could've made igneous shield give a heal to allies while returning the major mending time to its duration.

Igneous shield Updated: Call the earth to your defense, granting a damage shield for you and nearby allies that absorbs X damage. Your own damage shield absorbs 200% additional damage.

You also gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25% for 7 seconds & when the shield is broken or expires on your ally, they will receive X health back.

Yes. This would absolutely be a better change which fits with the group aid theme, I would swap a few things around though.

Revert igneous to the 6s (or 5s) and bigger shield, as more of a solo/tank buff, as such being stronger, then make fragmented the heal+3s, which is the group heal, and gives the healer a small extra burst of mending passively whilst healing (Like a warden) instead of just a flat buff, and since healers will run jorvulds, it gets a small extended length anyway.

MaxwellC

@ak_pvp
I really want fragmented shield to be offensive while Igneous shield can play on the defensive style so I don't agree with that notion but I'm glad you like the idea.

MaxwellC

@ZOS_Wrobel
You could change Cauterize to do the following; Cauterize: When slotted, holding the control its tied to allows you to high-light two friendly targets who will receive the heal until they are out of range (it will also heal the caster).