LukosCreyden wrote: »

@psychotrip I'm just parodying how ridiculously obsessed some people have become over the physical size of the map.

Also, do you have a source for the quote that Summerset is the biggest zone? I would like to see the context. Is it biggest as in scale? Or biggest as in volume of content within?

"For the first time since The Elder Scrolls: Arena, you can visit the Isle of Summerset and explore an all-new land packed full of exciting adventures and stunning locations in a zone even larger than the one found in The Elder Scrolls Online's last Chapter, Morrowind."

As for your question about what "larger" means, this is sort of the problem. It seems ZOS was being deliberately misleading, giving us a zone that might be technically larger, but without giving us access to large chunks of the space, making it significantly smaller.

Now, you'll probably respond by saying "Well they just said it was larger! They didn't say anything about explorable space". Well, this is the definition of a misleading statement. What's the point, what's even the draw of a "big" zone if you can't access the places that make it bigger? There was no reason to advertise the size unless they wanted us to believe it would affect us in some way.

It's a lie by omission.

Faulgor wrote: »

I don't doubt the math, but can you tell me how you created the to-scale map? Because it doesn't quite compare to the one I tried to make, and it might explain why there's so much disbelief here.
Indeed, I'm wondering where a lot of people who post modified maps here get their raw maps from, so for disclosure mine are from esomap.uesp.net - the maps are only available in cut-up form, so I created the composites out of 16+ images.

This is a concern I share, and that is why I immediately discard any information coming from out-of-game sources, like UESP. The maps on UESP may not be scaled properly to start with, introducing error right from the start.

The only way to make sure that the map is scaled properly is to use the in-game map and actually do the work to validate the scale of the map. Building on numbers generated by someone else is also a source of error.

Measuring time and distance traveled is the only method I even begin to trust in order to do any of this. Anyone basing size comparisons on anything other than distance traveled over time is not even worth reading. Note that this does not include the "follow the yellow brick road" methodology. (Edit: measuring time traveled along the "red line")

LukosCreyden wrote: »

@psychotrip I'm just parodying how ridiculously obsessed some people have become over the physical size of the map.

Also, do you have a source for the quote that Summerset is the biggest zone? I would like to see the context. Is it biggest as in scale? Or biggest as in volume of content within?

I tend to agree.

I already know that Summerset is larger than Wrothgar, which makes it larger than Auridon. It is really close in size to Vvardenfell, but I could not tell you which was larger. Vvardenfell feels larger, due to terrain, but Summerset may actually be larger, just easier to get around in.

It is interesting to watch people adjust maps, but this is not going to change anything.

Radinyn wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

@psychotrip I'm just parodying how ridiculously obsessed some people have become over the physical size of the map.

Also, do you have a source for the quote that Summerset is the biggest zone? I would like to see the context. Is it biggest as in scale? Or biggest as in volume of content within?

"For the first time since The Elder Scrolls: Arena, you can visit the Isle of Summerset and explore an all-new land packed full of exciting adventures and stunning locations in a zone even larger than the one found in The Elder Scrolls Online's last Chapter, Morrowind."

As for your question about what "larger" means, this is sort of the problem. It seems ZOS was being deliberately misleading, giving us a zone that might be technically larger, but without giving us access to large chunks of the space, making it significantly smaller.

Now, you'll probably respond by saying "Well they just said it was larger! They didn't say anything about explorable space". Well, this is the definition of a misleading statement. What's the point, what's even the draw of a "big" zone if you can't access the places that make it bigger? There was no reason to advertise the size unless they wanted us to believe it would affect us in some way.

It's a lie by omission.

It has more explorable space, previous posts confirmed it. It has more and bigger quests. It has bigger public dungeons and delves. It is larger than Morrowind in every aspect except it has 2 skilllines and not 3. You are fake news.

Way to dismantle your own credibility with a tired meme.

Every post that's "confirmed" this has been immediately challenged. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, because I'm willing to admit my lack of expertise in this area. But throughout this thread a large portion of people have been using various methods to express and explain the idea that Summerset is not the biggest zone ever released by ZOS. Even the posts you seem to be referencing only "prove" that it's bigger than Auridon: a relatively small vanilla starter zone. Nothing has been confirmed.

Faulgor wrote: »

Based on the revised Vvardenfell comparison, I filled in all explorable areas on both islands as genorously as possible. That means inlcuding quests, delves, public dungeons and trials, which is considerable in the case of Summerset (Wasten Coraldale, Archon's Grove, King's Haven Pass, Sunhold, Karnwasten, and Cloudrest). Also note that there are some areas in the Molag Amur region which are not traversable.

Make of this what you will. I find the area "comparable".

*** the mountains.....

I feel like the moutain to the south should just be open fields and have maybe1 quest I dont know why it needs to be there like it is rn. Its so out of place.

Then dont buy it if its not worth your money.

Charliff1966 wrote: »

Then dont buy it if its not worth your money.

they locked jewel crafting behind it...... a pretty major new mechanic in my opinion...

so its not that easy to not just buy it lol the chapter itself does not worth more then a small DLC in my opinion as a whole... but your forced to buy it with chapter Price if you don't want to be locked out of Entire gameplay mechanics....

leeux wrote: »

For me at least, is not about the size or the quality of content, is about believability (is that even a word?), and by that I mean the fact that Summerset Isles was supposed to be one thing in the lore, and many of us (I believe, at least) expected it to be the seat of a full TES game someday.

But now ESO is setting it the base for future lore and if the isle is tiny (and I mean, it IS tiny, comparing it with any TES single player games) that means that we will never get a proper version of it, nor that the old lore is valid... and boom, years of expectation and lore are thrown away, just for the sake of greedyness/quick buck return.

It's not tiny. It's still the second biggest zone in the game according to the pixel counting post above.

You have to understand this game was built using the Hero Engine. This engine is a piece of crap that only one other game in the entire world uses (SWTOR). The devs are extremely limited in what they can do with it. You're never going to get zones as big and as detailed as those found in single player games in an MMO, especially not in old MMOs running on crappy engines.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

For me at least, is not about the size or the quality of content, is about believability (is that even a word?), and by that I mean the fact that Summerset Isles was supposed to be one thing in the lore, and many of us (I believe, at least) expected it to be the seat of a full TES game someday.

But now ESO is setting it the base for future lore and if the isle is tiny (and I mean, it IS tiny, comparing it with any TES single player games) that means that we will never get a proper version of it, nor that the old lore is valid... and boom, years of expectation and lore are thrown away, just for the sake of greedyness/quick buck return.

It's not tiny. It's still the second biggest zone in the game according to the pixel counting post above.

You have to understand this game was built using the Hero Engine. This engine is a piece of crap that only one other game in the entire world uses (SWTOR). The devs are extremely limited in what they can do with it. You're never going to get zones as big and as detailed as those found in single player games in an MMO, especially not in old MMOs running on crappy engines.

Wait, so it's only the second biggest now? ZOS said it would be the biggest. So they lied, right? And we're still not accounting for explorable space, which would make their statement even more misleading.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

For me at least, is not about the size or the quality of content, is about believability (is that even a word?), and by that I mean the fact that Summerset Isles was supposed to be one thing in the lore, and many of us (I believe, at least) expected it to be the seat of a full TES game someday.

But now ESO is setting it the base for future lore and if the isle is tiny (and I mean, it IS tiny, comparing it with any TES single player games) that means that we will never get a proper version of it, nor that the old lore is valid... and boom, years of expectation and lore are thrown away, just for the sake of greedyness/quick buck return.

It's not tiny. It's still the second biggest zone in the game according to the pixel counting post above.

You have to understand this game was built using the Hero Engine. This engine is a piece of crap that only one other game in the entire world uses (SWTOR). The devs are extremely limited in what they can do with it. You're never going to get zones as big and as detailed as those found in single player games in an MMO, especially not in old MMOs running on crappy engines.

Wait, so it's only the second biggest now? ZOS said it would be the biggest. So they lied, right? And we're still not accounting for explorable space, which would make their statement even more misleading.

The post above accounted for explorable space only: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5092400/#Comment_5092400

Not sure how you missed the bright green neon colours...

The comparison also doesn't take Artaeum into account.

I missed it because clicking on my notifications brought me directly to your post. To me, the explorable space looks about the same. So, not good, but not as bad as some feared.

So, we're still saying Summerset is smaller, right? Because, again, that would mean ZOS lied.

Just wanted to add something that people in this thread have overlooked. The area I have marked in red, is actually the Aldmeri Grotto home and is accessible. The Grotto is inside the mountain Not defending the general direction of this thread though. I am still convinced, that we have been lied to and that Summerset is not bigger than Vvardenfell in any way.

(Red Stroke) Small? No:

Lysette wrote: »

It depends as well if you just count the over-world "outdoor" content or the whole explorable area including "indoor" areas. The over-world feels small IMO, but I did not look at any of the other content, because I want to play that in the finished product and not in a beta. Basically what I mean with it is, that one would have to compare enjoyable playable content, which is hard and not the same for everyone. Like the industry says a game has like 50 hours of gameplay - and I play it for years and have not even seen all - this is all so relative - would be interesting to know, how ZOS is measuring it - maybe in man-hours required to create the content?

Then we need to count all indoor content and not just Summerset's. In the end it will change almost nothing when it comes to (accessible) content of the zone / size of the zone.

Radinyn wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

@psychotrip I'm just parodying how ridiculously obsessed some people have become over the physical size of the map.

Also, do you have a source for the quote that Summerset is the biggest zone? I would like to see the context. Is it biggest as in scale? Or biggest as in volume of content within?

"For the first time since The Elder Scrolls: Arena, you can visit the Isle of Summerset and explore an all-new land packed full of exciting adventures and stunning locations in a zone even larger than the one found in The Elder Scrolls Online's last Chapter, Morrowind."

As for your question about what "larger" means, this is sort of the problem. It seems ZOS was being deliberately misleading, giving us a zone that might be technically larger, but without giving us access to large chunks of the space, making it significantly smaller.

Now, you'll probably respond by saying "Well they just said it was larger! They didn't say anything about explorable space". Well, this is the definition of a misleading statement. What's the point, what's even the draw of a "big" zone if you can't access the places that make it bigger? There was no reason to advertise the size unless they wanted us to believe it would affect us in some way.

It's a lie by omission.

1. It has more explorable space, previous posts confirmed it.

2. It has more and bigger quests.

3. It has bigger public dungeons and delves.

4. It is larger than Morrowind in every aspect except it has 2 skilllines and not 3

5. You are fake news.

1. No, it hasn't.

2. No, it hasn't. The main zone quest might be the longest yet though, granted.

3. No, it hasn't.

4. No, it isn't.

5. Who's fake news here? It's not @psychotrip.