ESO: Morrowind Size Comparison (Now With A Summerset Update)

Twenty0zTsunami

Seraphayel wrote: »

Actually I am basing my opinion on 1) having tried it on the PTS yesterday and 2) YouTube videos where players travel the entire map within a really short amount of time.

It is not my desire that Summerset is a joke when it comes to content and size. My desire was to get the glorious islands of Summerset in their full size and not 40% blocked off by mountains.

It's hilarious how we're discussing now if Summerset is bigger than Auridon. That's so absurd. It should be two, maybe three times as big as Auridon. And at best it's barely bigger. That's wrong on so many levels. But as I said the last time, I am not surprised that your biased.

rank 60 riding + rapid maneuvers

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Summerset is still significantly smaller than Vvardenfell and just rivals Auridon in size. Summerset is far from being the biggest zone (or even one of the biggest zones) in ESO.

And as some claimed, there is not more content in Summerset than in your usual vanilla zone. The "underground" content doesn't change that.

Sorry, but you're wrong: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

Go on the PTS and travel Summerset. Travel throughout Vvardenfell then.

Summerset is significantly smaller than Vvardenfell unless you want it to be bigger and won't acknowledge how it is.

MLGProPlayer

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Summerset is still significantly smaller than Vvardenfell and just rivals Auridon in size. Summerset is far from being the biggest zone (or even one of the biggest zones) in ESO.

And as some claimed, there is not more content in Summerset than in your usual vanilla zone. The "underground" content doesn't change that.

Sorry, but you're wrong: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

Go on the PTS and travel Summerset. Travel throughout Vvardenfell then.

Summerset is significantly smaller than Vvardenfell unless you want it to be bigger and won't acknowledge how it is.

I've already been on the PTS. Why don't you do a comparison video of how long it takes you to run across both, instead of posting nonsensical conjecture? People were 100% certain that Wrothgar was bigger than Vvardenfell. They "felt" it immediately when they logged onto the PTS. Then it turned out they were wrong. Intuition is a funny thing. It's informed by personal biases.

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Summerset is still significantly smaller than Vvardenfell and just rivals Auridon in size. Summerset is far from being the biggest zone (or even one of the biggest zones) in ESO.

And as some claimed, there is not more content in Summerset than in your usual vanilla zone. The "underground" content doesn't change that.

Sorry, but you're wrong: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

Go on the PTS and travel Summerset. Travel throughout Vvardenfell then.

Summerset is significantly smaller than Vvardenfell unless you want it to be bigger and won't acknowledge how it is.

I've already been on the PTS. Why don't you do a comparison video of how long it takes you to run across both, instead of posting nonsensical conjecture? People were 100% certain that Wrothgar was bigger than Vvardenfell. They "felt" it immediately when they logged onto the PTS. Then it turned out they were wrong. Intuition is a funny thing. It's informed by personal biases.

I never said Wrothgar is bigger though. Summerset is just a big fat dissppointment when it comes to size. Some People can still claim it's bigger and has more content than Vvardendell but within the next month everybody can play it and will see that Summerset is neither bigger nor has more content than the usual faction leveling zone in ESO.

As many said, it's Auridon 2.0 HD in basically every way (size, content, art style, architecture).

SydneyGrey

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

I'm still looking forward to playing it live, though, and I've already preordered. It'll still be awesome.

MLGProPlayer

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

psychotrip

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

Vahrokh

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

MLGProPlayer

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

MLGProPlayer

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

psychotrip

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

MLGProPlayer

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

Vuldovahkriid

Personally to me, it's just adding more land to the game overall. I'm constantly playing in other zones(Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, dailies, etc), so I welcome more land of any size. And Summerset's atmosphere is more than enough reason to want to play it.

MLGProPlayer

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

You're talking conjecture until you prove it. What you "feel" is irrelevant unless you directly compare (with a stopwatch) how long it takes you to walk across one map versus another.

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

You're talking conjecture until you prove it. What you "feel" is irrelevant unless you directly compare (with a stopwatch) how long it takes you to walk across one map versus another.

Actually what a player feels or experiences matters, not what map cells or map cutouts suggest.

ClockworkCityBugs

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

You're talking conjecture until you prove it. What you "feel" is irrelevant unless you directly compare (with a stopwatch) how long it takes you to walk across one map versus another.

Actually what a player feels or experiences matters, not what map cells or map cutouts suggest.

you declined 2+2=4 then?
Summerset Mathematically bigger than Auridon
its prooved

starkerealm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

You're talking conjecture until you prove it. What you "feel" is irrelevant unless you directly compare (with a stopwatch) how long it takes you to walk across one map versus another.

If I had to guess, I suspect some of this is because Auridon is a long zone. North to south. For most of that space, the actual width of the play area is fairly narrow. The questline routes you north along the zone, and you'll hit most, if not all, of the sights along the way.

In contrast, Summerset is a much more scattered zone. It has numerous paths, and the overall shape of the map is more centralized. Going from the east coast to the west coast of summerset will take far less time than going from Vulkhel Guard to FIrsthold. Those two points are further apart.

Combine this with the open spaces of Summerset, which aren't quite as devoid of content as they first appear, and you could be left with a real impression that the map is smaller, even if that's not the case.

This may also have been a factor in the Wrothgar/Vvardenfell comparison. Wrothgar is a long smear of terrain, while Vvardenfell is a ring. While Wrothgar is a smaller zone, it's possible to plot a longer distance between two points there than it is in Vvardenfell.

Seraphayel

ClockworkCityBugs wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why do people care about size?

Wrothgar was good because it had lots of playable content (not just a big size), because it was fun, its storyline - unlike VVardenfell - compelling and with surprises.

To be honest, if ZOS sold both Wrothgar and VVardenfell as expansion, I'd have given a 9 to Wrothgar and a 5 to VVardenfell "the bland".

Even today, when I create a new character, I get so bored running him through VVardenfell content that I go back to Stonefalls and restart the original, old questline, despite I have played it a dozen times!

Becusse ZOS told us this would be the biggest zone ever released. If it’s not, they lied to us.

It’s that simple.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

How do we know the maps are properly scaled? I remember people claiming the Summerset map is zoomed in, though I can’t verify that. I think they used boats or something to compare the sizes?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Not reading every post, but ...

I've been to Summerset on the PTS. It's super beautiful, but it is most definitely not larger than Auridon in terms of playable area. It's just not.

What do you base this on? People said the exact same thing about Vvardenfell.

Have you stopped and wondered why so many people, even those who clearly aren’t trying to hate on the game like the person above, feel like Summerset is smaller? Do you ever wonder if maybe you’re the odd one out?

That said, I’m also curious to read his / her response. What makes it feel so small?

People feel all sorts of things. Intuition is informed by your pre-existing biases. Most people want something to be angry about, even if that something doesn't exist.

I can’t help but feel like you’re being a bit cynical here. Do you really think @SydneyGrey is looking for something to be angry about? They seem excited for the DLC.

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

We know that the Summerset map is 77% bigger than Vvardenfell's (144x144 map cells vs 81x81 map cells). Here was Vvardenfell scaled against Stonefalls. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5m5bk5/datamine_vvardenfell_development_map/

Yes, Summerset has more inaccessible space than Vvardenfell, but it also has more space overall. I've already explained why removing more from a larger pie can still leave you with more than removing a small amount from a smaller pie.

Your comparison - as I said in the other thread - doesn't stand reality though. Why am I traveling a lot faster through Summerset when - as you claim - it's bigger than Vvardenfell (which takes a lot more time to travel through)? Summerset isn't bigger than Vvardenfell even when all these nice pictures try to state something different. Just play it. Play Summerset and then return to Vvardenfell.

Oh and Summerset for sure isn't twice the size of Auridon. I'd say it is not even 20% bigger than Auridon so your picture is... interesting (based on gameplay experience and not map cells or map cutouts).

You're talking conjecture until you prove it. What you "feel" is irrelevant unless you directly compare (with a stopwatch) how long it takes you to walk across one map versus another.

Actually what a player feels or experiences matters, not what map cells or map cutouts suggest.

you declined 2+2=4 then?
Summerset Mathematically bigger than Auridon
its prooved

I don't decline anything. I just say even if the "math" in this thread states that Summerset is bigger than Vvardenfell / Auridon in reality (= on PTS) it is not, at least not by the % some are trying to make it. The picture where the Auridon map is put on the Summerset map is absolutely ridiculous as it suggests that Summerset is like two times Auridon and if you've been on the PTS you can clearly see that it's just not true.

XomRhoK

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

On the paper his maths seems right, but if you look at the model of the ships, on the picture he made, the size of them differs, but models of the ship are the same (i based it on visiting Auridon and watch Summerset gameplay trailer). It differs at nearly 84% if you measure them. Same difference mentioned in the @Shinni 's posts

Shinni wrote: »

My addon HarvestMap has to measure the zone, so it can properly display 3D pins and compute distance between resources etc.
When I debugged HarvestMap to track the new jewelry resources, I realized that the size of the zone does not match the size of the 2D map.
Using the addon API, you can compute that Summerset is 84% of its size compared to the Tamriel map.

Shinni wrote: »

These must be pretty old measurements (since the Auridon map was rescaled a few times) or inaccurate ones, which is not unlikely given you used walking distance/time to perform measurements.
1km in Auridon and 1km in Vvardenfell are both equal to 0.04% of Tamriel map width, if you measure the distance by using the 3D add-on api or if you use SetPlayerWaypointByWorldLocation(x,y,z) to place two markers 1km apart from each other.

So earlier i made Summerset and Auridon maps comparison based on size of the ships in docks.

Now i did what u did, impose maps of Summerset and Auridon. Public dungeon, trial and small island at the west don't colored in red. I added some transparency, copied and replaced red zones that fell under Auridon map. And, based on the result, size of Summerset and Auridon nearly identical.

Seraphayel

XomRhoK wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

On the paper his maths seems right, but if you look at the model of the ships, on the picture he made, the size of them differs, but models of the ship are the same (i based it on visiting Auridon and watch Summerset gameplay trailer). It differs at nearly 84% if you measure them. Same difference mentioned in the @Shinni 's posts

Shinni wrote: »

My addon HarvestMap has to measure the zone, so it can properly display 3D pins and compute distance between resources etc.
When I debugged HarvestMap to track the new jewelry resources, I realized that the size of the zone does not match the size of the 2D map.
Using the addon API, you can compute that Summerset is 84% of its size compared to the Tamriel map.

Shinni wrote: »

These must be pretty old measurements (since the Auridon map was rescaled a few times) or inaccurate ones, which is not unlikely given you used walking distance/time to perform measurements.
1km in Auridon and 1km in Vvardenfell are both equal to 0.04% of Tamriel map width, if you measure the distance by using the 3D add-on api or if you use SetPlayerWaypointByWorldLocation(x,y,z) to place two markers 1km apart from each other.

So earlier i made Summerset and Auridon maps comparison based on size of the ships in docks.

Now i did what u did, impose maps of Summerset and Auridon. Public dungeon, trial and small island at the west don't colored in red. I added some transparency, copied and replaced red zones that fell under Auridon map. And, based on the result, size of Summerset and Auridon nearly indetical.

Thank you. This is exactly how Summerset size "feels" when you play it.

Faulgor

XomRhoK wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

On the paper his maths seems right, but if you look at the model of the ships, on the picture he made, the size of them differs, but models of the ship are the same (i based it on visiting Auridon and watch Summerset gameplay trailer). It differs at nearly 84% if you measure them. Same difference mentioned in the @Shinni 's posts

Shinni wrote: »

My addon HarvestMap has to measure the zone, so it can properly display 3D pins and compute distance between resources etc.
When I debugged HarvestMap to track the new jewelry resources, I realized that the size of the zone does not match the size of the 2D map.
Using the addon API, you can compute that Summerset is 84% of its size compared to the Tamriel map.

Shinni wrote: »

These must be pretty old measurements (since the Auridon map was rescaled a few times) or inaccurate ones, which is not unlikely given you used walking distance/time to perform measurements.
1km in Auridon and 1km in Vvardenfell are both equal to 0.04% of Tamriel map width, if you measure the distance by using the 3D add-on api or if you use SetPlayerWaypointByWorldLocation(x,y,z) to place two markers 1km apart from each other.

So earlier i made Summerset and Auridon maps comparison based on size of the ships in docks.

Now i did what u did, impose maps of Summerset and Auridon. Public dungeon, trial and small island at the west don't colored in red. I added some transparency, copied and replaced red zones that fell under Auridon map. And, based on the result, size of Summerset and Auridon nearly identical.

I used the ships for comparison too and had a similar result (you can actually still see the Auridon ship I used in Sunhold's harbor - forgot to edit it out again). Wayshrines sadly don't work as well as I hoped.

Note that the green area only includes freely accessible overland areas, i.e. no delves, public dungeons or the trial, which I'd say occupy another 10% of the area marked as unaccesible.
There are of course also unaccessible areas in Auridon, which I did not mark as I'd have to ride through the whole zone for that too. But I still think this comparison gives a good idea of Summerset's size.

Elsonso

Seraphayel wrote: »

Go on the PTS and travel Summerset. Travel throughout Vvardenfell then.

Summerset is significantly smaller than Vvardenfell unless you want it to be bigger and won't acknowledge how it is.

After doing daily quests in Vvardenfell for two weeks (seemed like two months), and traveling in Summerset, I am really not sure whether Summerset is bigger or smaller. What I can say is that the terrain in Vvardenfell (not the mountain, the rest of the terrain) is more significant than Summerset, which makes them hard to compare. Travel in Summerset seems to have a much longer view distance, or maybe less to look at up close, and that makes distances seem shorter.

For example, it seems to take no time at all to go from Shimmerene to Alinor because the road is nice. Going from Shimmerene to the wayshrine in the far north is a shorter distance, but seems to take longer. Terrain.

Of course, all of this is subjective and based on feel, not measurements. To me feel is more important than measurements. Why? The Vvardenfell in TES 3 Morrowind is absolutely tiny. It is packed with tons of stuff, making it similar to a hoarder's closet. It does not feel tiny when in the game, but if they flattened it out and removed the terrain obstacles, it definitely would feel that way.

I just want to add that for the first half of the anniversary event, I did daily quests in Wrothgar at the same time I was doing Clockwork City and Vvardenfell. To me, Wrothgar feels larger than Clockwork City, but smaller than Vvardenfell. The major reason why Wrothgar feels at all large is the broken terrain.

As for Summerset vs Auridon. I have no opinion. I cannot remember the last time I actually crossed Auridon. However, Auridon has very limited view distances caused by rather complicated terrain. I know from a recent holiday that it really does not take long to get from Vulkhel Guard to Skywatch, or from Skywatch to the racist high elf school. (racist ... high elf ... is this redundant?) The hard part of those paths is going around terrain features.

sudaki_eso

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

I cant play on the pts so i cant really tell how big it "feels" but judging from your map it would take the same amount of time to travel those two distances:

Did anyone tested this?

psychotrip

XomRhoK wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

We know that it's properly scaled from the map sizes that are available in the game files.

Here is an explanation: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5065181/#Comment_5065181

On the paper his maths seems right, but if you look at the model of the ships, on the picture he made, the size of them differs, but models of the ship are the same (i based it on visiting Auridon and watch Summerset gameplay trailer). It differs at nearly 84% if you measure them. Same difference mentioned in the @Shinni 's posts

Shinni wrote: »

My addon HarvestMap has to measure the zone, so it can properly display 3D pins and compute distance between resources etc.
When I debugged HarvestMap to track the new jewelry resources, I realized that the size of the zone does not match the size of the 2D map.
Using the addon API, you can compute that Summerset is 84% of its size compared to the Tamriel map.

Shinni wrote: »

These must be pretty old measurements (since the Auridon map was rescaled a few times) or inaccurate ones, which is not unlikely given you used walking distance/time to perform measurements.
1km in Auridon and 1km in Vvardenfell are both equal to 0.04% of Tamriel map width, if you measure the distance by using the 3D add-on api or if you use SetPlayerWaypointByWorldLocation(x,y,z) to place two markers 1km apart from each other.

So earlier i made Summerset and Auridon maps comparison based on size of the ships in docks.

Now i did what u did, impose maps of Summerset and Auridon. Public dungeon, trial and small island at the west don't colored in red. I added some transparency, copied and replaced red zones that fell under Auridon map. And, based on the result, size of Summerset and Auridon nearly identical.

Please listen to this @MLGProPlayer. Summerset’s map isn’t scaled with Auridon. All the evidence suggests that it’s zoomed in and various people have corroborated this.

danno8

sudaki_eso wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

I cant play on the pts so i cant really tell how big it "feels" but judging from your map it would take the same amount of time to travel those two distances:

Did anyone tested this?

I just did, and I recorded it. Curious as to the results?

I'll give you a hint. Math wins.

I'll upload them, but it'll take a while. The results are that it took me 6:40 to ride from point A to B in Summerset, and 6:10 to go from A to B in Auridon.

Long story short, the guy who did the true comparison, using in-game zone maps, taking into account the scaling differences and using math to reach a conclusion was correct, and those who just used their impressions were wrong *about the true size of the zone*.

Note that how the zone "feels" is entirely subjective and there is certainly some credence to the feeling of it being smaller due to the "corridor" nature of the zone and how you can not just cut straight through it.

That's why people are saying it is smaller, not because it is truly smaller in landmass, but rather because it feels smaller in how it is constructed. Like tearing down a wall in your house doesn't make your house bigger (well maybe a few sq.ft), but it sure will feel bigger.

Spacemonkey

for the whole map comparison thing, I would suggest using not the wayshrine icon, but the actual wayshrine on the map , and scale them together as all different variants of wayshrine throughout the game are generally the same size across all zone maps. Boats can be of different sizes so im not sure thats 100% good, but seems like a good starting point too. To my knowledge, wayshrines are the only common element of known size.

Now unless they thought of this and intentionally made the occupied and illustrated space of the wayshrines on the map (and not just the icons) - that should give a rock-solid scale comparison.

danno8

https://youtu.be/B-eOEwWICOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVKa9aDQyR4

I just saw Votans Minimap got an update and works now. Would have been nice for these recording, lol.

Seraphayel

danno8 wrote: »

sudaki_eso wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

I cant play on the pts so i cant really tell how big it "feels" but judging from your map it would take the same amount of time to travel those two distances:

Did anyone tested this?

I just did, and I recorded it. Curious as to the results?

I'll give you a hint. Math wins.

I'll upload them, but it'll take a while. The results are that it took me 6:40 to ride from point A to B in Summerset, and 6:10 to go from A to B in Auridon.

Long story short, the guy who did the true comparison, using in-game zone maps, taking into account the scaling differences and using math to reach a conclusion was correct, and those who just used their impressions were wrong *about the true size of the zone*.

Note that how the zone "feels" is entirely subjective and there is certainly some credence to the feeling of it being smaller due to the "corridor" nature of the zone and how you can not just cut straight through it.

That's why people are saying it is smaller, not because it is truly smaller in landmass, but rather because it feels smaller in how it is constructed. Like tearing down a wall in your house doesn't make your house bigger (well maybe a few sq.ft), but it sure will feel bigger.

It took you 30 seconds longer to travel the distance in Summerset and that proves exactly what? That Summerset is 5% larger due to that value? How magnificent Summerset is that's supposed to be twice the size of Auridon!

Granted, traveling from East to West on Summerset will most likely take longer than on Auridon but it still is a massive disappointment when it comes to "true" size vs. in game size. It's just sad that ZOS wasn't able to give us Summerset how it should be.

danno8

Seraphayel wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

sudaki_eso wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is Auridon superimposed over Summerset (both maps are scaled). Summerset is unquestionably bigger.

I cant play on the pts so i cant really tell how big it "feels" but judging from your map it would take the same amount of time to travel those two distances:

Did anyone tested this?

I just did, and I recorded it. Curious as to the results?

I'll give you a hint. Math wins.

I'll upload them, but it'll take a while. The results are that it took me 6:40 to ride from point A to B in Summerset, and 6:10 to go from A to B in Auridon.

Long story short, the guy who did the true comparison, using in-game zone maps, taking into account the scaling differences and using math to reach a conclusion was correct, and those who just used their impressions were wrong *about the true size of the zone*.

Note that how the zone "feels" is entirely subjective and there is certainly some credence to the feeling of it being smaller due to the "corridor" nature of the zone and how you can not just cut straight through it.

That's why people are saying it is smaller, not because it is truly smaller in landmass, but rather because it feels smaller in how it is constructed. Like tearing down a wall in your house doesn't make your house bigger (well maybe a few sq.ft), but it sure will feel bigger.

It took you 30 seconds longer to travel the distance in Summerset and that proves exactly what? That Summerset is 5% larger due to that value? How magnificent Summerset is that's supposed to be twice the size of Auridon!

Granted, traveling from East to West on Summerset will most likely take longer than on Auridon but it still is a massive disappointment when it comes to "true" size vs. in game size. It's just sad that ZOS wasn't able to give us Summerset how it should be.

I proves that the OP's methods of measuring the actual size of zones is correct. The 30s is mostly irrelevant that is most likely just due to a small difference in path size and altitude movement.

Of course everyone should have already known this since the OP did the "how far do I move in a given amount of time" comparison do get the scale correct, but many were rabidly denying this was accurate.

Everything else is just personal opinion, which is fine. But people really should stop passing off their personal opinion as "truth" when clear, concise, reproducible facts are available.

It's fine to say "Summerset feels smaller than other areas because much of the landmass is inaccessible, the available landmass feels very "corridor" and other areas you have to transport to which makes it feel removed from the actual Isle." As opposed to "Summerset is smaller than Auridon, I don't care what you think, or show, or prove!!"

Edit: And according to the measurements, Summerset IS, in fact, twice the size of Auridon. Just lay a grid on top of this picture:



and count the number of squares that SI has and the number of squares that Auridon has. Even without the red inaccessible areas I can tell that that it is close to 2x.