Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

The only good thing about that is the major heroism. Without it they are just *** wings.

So you think they should nerf one morph and rebalance the other to make it harder for you to choose which to pick? Why shouldn't they just buff the other morph and leave shimmering as is?

Because shimmering is overpowered.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

The only good thing about that is the major heroism. Without it they are just *** wings.

So you think they should nerf one morph and rebalance the other to make it harder for you to choose which to pick? Why shouldn't they just buff the other morph and leave shimmering as is?

Because shimmering is overpowered.

Shimmering is overpowered, or major heroism is overpowered?

I would just simply like to add, stamina wardens are only ok in that you have to use dual wield/bow. Now I'm not saying things like 2hander should be the most dps. I just think there are better ways to help stamina wardens (and magica wardens) than limiting us to one build.

Swarm should have a stam morph. This is a dot that could have a great benefit to s/b or 2h builds.

Our shield in frost is all magica magica. Why not give one of the morphs a stamina shield that actually helps stam?

I feel like Nature's grasp could have a morph that perhaps did physical or poison damage.

Just some suggestions i've considered. You don't have to agree with me. (this is all PVE suggestions)

Skander wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

The only good thing about that is the major heroism. Without it they are just *** wings.

So you think they should nerf one morph and rebalance the other to make it harder for you to choose which to pick? Why shouldn't they just buff the other morph and leave shimmering as is?

Because shimmering is overpowered.

Shimmering is overpowered, or major heroism is overpowered?

Shimmering

So you think removing the magicka return will make it balanced. Is that correct?

As a day one warden who used it on release both stamina and Magica. I would like to put my input in this matter.

The class is severely lacking uniqueness and versatility! I would like to suggest like I did on other threads so that the other magica abilites we got would be frost dmg abilities and not magica changing morphs on fetcher flies and on screaming cliff racer to ice dmg to help better versatility in game with sets as well. Since ive been dying to use ysgamor for a while but only 2 abilities maybe 4, if you count ice destroy abilities taking advantage of it, isn't very helpful. I mean sorc has all his abilites to lightning, dk to fire and so on to so forth.

Some ideas as well to make it a bit more competitive would be to make artic winds to be reworked into a kind of ice impale or something similar in that manner to a one target since the healing is abysmal and so is the dmg we have a healing tree would be better honestly. and the ability scales off of magica and spell dmg and does similar to the NB execute ability.

As for the deepfissure nerf since yall changed the nerf can you reduce the cast time to 1 sec or remove it all together? (this ability would be great to be turned into ice dmg as well!)

The skill tree for winters embrace could aslo harbour a passive like execute that deals more dmg to enemy targets under a certain amount of dmg.

For stamina wardens adding more poison dmg and or physical dmg abilities to the skill lines in winters embrace and animal campanions.. just to add more diverse builds and such.. I dont want this amazing class to be dead it has so much potential and would be nice of the devs listened to the feed back and did some rework to the wardens which made me come back to game!

These are just some few suggestions I would like to add but ill keep following this thread closely to keep commenting and see where this all goes to.

Remee wrote: »

I would just simply like to add, stamina wardens are only ok in that you have to use dual wield/bow. Now I'm not saying things like 2hander should be the most dps. I just think there are better ways to help stamina wardens (and magica wardens) than limiting us to one build.

Swarm should have a stam morph. This is a dot that could have a great benefit to s/b or 2h builds.

Our shield in frost is all magica magica. Why not give one of the morphs a stamina shield that actually helps stam?

I feel like Nature's grasp could have a morph that perhaps did physical or poison damage.

Just some suggestions i've considered. You don't have to agree with me. (this is all PVE suggestions)

Heroism on shield helps stam... and as far as swarm and grasp changes, I would only agree if this were part of an overhaul that gave all class abilities 3 morphs, because taking damage options from mag to give them to stam makes no sense when considering the current lack of damage abilities magden specifically suffers from

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Please screw off with the nerf shimmering replies. I don't need yet another valuable tanking tool ruined because you morons are bickering about who has the bigger epeen in cyrodiil.

Here we go again. PvP and PvE are not balanced separately. If you don't like it, I suggest you find a different game.

Shimmering is overperforming right now. If wings returned 50-75% of the spell cost based on reflected projectiles, then it would be overperforming too. Thankfully it doesn't.

Edit.

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Here just straight up from the 4.0.0 patch notes
Pre-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2701, 578 Return per projectile - 2701-3*578=Total Cost 967
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506

i think 2701 cost is for not developed skill. rank 4 cost 2432.
if 3240 is for same not developed skill, it will cost 2889.
It's stamwarden, without any gear equipped...
So, almost no difference in cost. It's too cheap.


and here cost in 7 light on my argonian and it's even more ridiculous after 3 hits.

Stamden and stamplar are only 2 classes who don't need more max and/or regen magicka than basic.
And stamplar at least haven't burst healing like stam warden and nothing to counter projectiles except shield ulti or defencive posture...


P.s: Your math is wrong.

Ah now that you have labeled your math I can follow it. However you aren't looking at the right numbers. 2432 and 2889 are not the true cost of the skills, just the inital cost. No stamina character could spam 2432 skill. Even StamBlades either deal with only 3 Cloaks, or run Max Stam & Mag Regen food.
Pre-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 27012432, 578 Return per projectile
2432-(578*3)
2432-1734
=Total Cost 698

Post-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 32402889, 578 Return per projectile
2889-(578*3)
2889-1734
=Total Cost 1155

The fact that this change is pushing the cost above a whole regen tick is a HUGE change. Now I play console, so I can not test this change until it goes live, however you have said nothing to make me think you have actually tested anything either.

If you think my math is wrong then learn what every elementary school kid knows, and show your work. Or better yet, show my work with the "corrections" made to it.

Race against time or channeled acceleration certainly will help open up a spot in that my warden won’t be running guard in pve for minor force anymore

But I think the real issue lies in that magden has never been good in pve and has been nerfed hard so many times in pvp that it is severely disadvantaged in most 1v1 matchups and is frankly not fun anymore... 321 missed 321 dodged 321 stunned so shalks fire backwards 321 can’t hit anything because snared 321 my enemy is not a npc so the ability didn’t land... it’s getting stale.

I would rather have some killing potential without be forced to run fissure... magden needs some variety in good damaging abilities, and no the answer does not lie in nerfing fissure into oblivion to make the other weak as dirt skills relatively interesting... it lies in buffing some weak animal companion skills and giving us some winters embrace and nature’s balance skills that can do good damage and are not clunky to use or hard to land. We need more variety with our damage and we need more damage... we are too predictable to fight against... simple as that

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

seitekisaki wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

All I can say there, is that StamDens do well enough in PvP without a stun (yes Dizzy, but Clench) and they do just fine. I can only say I hope that Major Breach puts MagDen somewhere close, though Meteor is much slower than Dawn Breaker.

Theory Crafting
Fissure->Screaming->Clench->Force
Fissure->Fletcher->Clench->Force
Fissure->Impuned->(no LA)Clench->(LA)Force

All the combos you mention, except the fissure, can be blocked or dodge rolled. Ice comet is AWESOME on magden, BUT it's easily blocked. This means you need a stun. And if youj use clench, and it can be blocked/dodged, then you cannot land a meteor on a good opponent. Back to the drawing board.

So can
Sub->Dizzy->Reverse
Sub->Dawn->Reverse
So I’m going to call BS on your argument

Wtf lmao clearly you didn't even read the convo haha. You just said straight stamina skills when we were talkiing magicka skills lmfao I can tell you don't read very much.

Because I was comparing MagDen, the weaker of the two, to StamDen. While MagDen loosing the stun sucks, it isn't the end of MagDen. Gaining Major Breach may even be a buff, though I play console so I cant test that yet. I have a MagDen Theory in mind that will absolutely be stronger than even StamDen if it plays out.

Also, Deep Fissures stun can be blocked/dodged, so..... "Whatcha talkin' about Willis?" If you meant the damage from the skill, Sub and Fissure are the same there.
Also note, you where the new comer to the conversation, not I. So.... clearly I did even read the convo haha...

It might be blockable, but it's harder to time the block.

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Fissure, Meteor, Imbue, Borrow Time, Light Attack, Bird maybe interesting for magden in pts but I can’t really test it given that my WiFi is fried

Meteor is an ult and so is borrowed time

Hutch679 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

seitekisaki wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

All I can say there, is that StamDens do well enough in PvP without a stun (yes Dizzy, but Clench) and they do just fine. I can only say I hope that Major Breach puts MagDen somewhere close, though Meteor is much slower than Dawn Breaker.

Theory Crafting
Fissure->Screaming->Clench->Force
Fissure->Fletcher->Clench->Force
Fissure->Impuned->(no LA)Clench->(LA)Force

All the combos you mention, except the fissure, can be blocked or dodge rolled. Ice comet is AWESOME on magden, BUT it's easily blocked. This means you need a stun. And if youj use clench, and it can be blocked/dodged, then you cannot land a meteor on a good opponent. Back to the drawing board.

So can
Sub->Dizzy->Reverse
Sub->Dawn->Reverse
So I’m going to call BS on your argument

Wtf lmao clearly you didn't even read the convo haha. You just said straight stamina skills when we were talkiing magicka skills lmfao I can tell you don't read very much.

Because I was comparing MagDen, the weaker of the two, to StamDen. While MagDen loosing the stun sucks, it isn't the end of MagDen. Gaining Major Breach may even be a buff, though I play console so I cant test that yet. I have a MagDen Theory in mind that will absolutely be stronger than even StamDen if it plays out.

Also, Deep Fissures stun can be blocked/dodged, so..... "Whatcha talkin' about Willis?" If you meant the damage from the skill, Sub and Fissure are the same there.
Also note, you where the new comer to the conversation, not I. So.... clearly I did even read the convo haha...

It might be blockable, but it's harder to time the block.

Not really, you have a friggen timer under your feet as soon as you cast it. Much easier to time then blocking Clench. Not to mention you can easily have your reticle on your target and have Sub/Fissure completely miss because you side stepped their attack. Where as Clench is guaranteed to land unless they happen to dodge, regardless of what you are doing.

Waffennacht wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Fissure, Meteor, Imbue, Borrow Time, Light Attack, Bird maybe interesting for magden in pts but I can’t really test it given that my WiFi is fried

Meteor is an ult and so is borrowed time

Borrowed Time is a Time Stop morph . Undo is the Ulti, morphs being Precognition and Temporal Guard.
I disagree with the timing though. With that cast order, Fissure and Meteor will have already landed by the time Borrow Time stuns. Screaming and Imbue fill the same role, I wouldn't run them both.
Fissure, Borrow, Meteor, Screaming
Fissure, Borrow, Screaming, Imbue(LA)

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Here just straight up from the 4.0.0 patch notes
Pre-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2701, 578 Return per projectile - 2701-3*578=Total Cost 967
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506

i think 2701 cost is for not developed skill. rank 4 cost 2432.
if 3240 is for same not developed skill, it will cost 2889.
It's stamwarden, without any gear equipped...
So, almost no difference in cost. It's too cheap.


and here cost in 7 light on my argonian and it's even more ridiculous after 3 hits.

Stamden and stamplar are only 2 classes who don't need more max and/or regen magicka than basic.
And stamplar at least haven't burst healing like stam warden and nothing to counter projectiles except shield ulti or defencive posture...


P.s: Your math is wrong.

Ah now that you have labeled your math I can follow it. However you aren't looking at the right numbers. 2432 and 2889 are not the true cost of the skills, just the inital cost. No stamina character could spam 2432 skill. Even StamBlades either deal with only 3 Cloaks, or run Max Stam & Mag Regen food.
Pre-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 27012432, 578 Return per projectile
2432-(578*3)
2432-1734
=Total Cost 698

Post-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 32402889, 578 Return per projectile
2889-(578*3)
2889-1734
=Total Cost 1155

The fact that this change is pushing the cost above a whole regen tick is a HUGE change. Now I play console, so I can not test this change until it goes live, however you have said nothing to make me think you have actually tested anything either.

If you think my math is wrong then learn what every elementary school kid knows, and show your work. Or better yet, show my work with the "corrections" made to it.

My issue to your math was before u used here now right cost numbers:
"Pre-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 27012432, 578 Return per projectile
2432-(578*3)
2432-1734
=Total Cost 698

Post-Summerset Shimmering -
Cost 32402889, 578 Return per projectile
2889-(578*3)
2889-1734
=Total Cost 1155
"
Now all good, we talk about same

My goal is not to make this skill useless, but to make it fair.
Nb's cloak cost is 3780 magicka for stamnb. any mag return. Good example Fear - same 3780 magicka.
Dk's wings - 3780, Igneous shield - 4050, green dragon blood - 4320. Any return magicka from any skill.
Templars - Extended ritual - 4148 (but here at least its only 1 manaskill to manage by stamplar - so he's need of mana is not much higher than stamden's but ...).

Shimmering should be much more expensive - to use it smart. It gives too many preferences (unique major buff, 3 gigantic projectiles, magreturn...) to be almost free.

Your issue with my math is wrong base cost?!?! Except I just used the cost off my characters. Either way, Ulti regen is the Warden signature. Shimmering is completely 100% useless against a lot of skills.