PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Warden Balance

JobooAGS · April 2018

How about to decrease the cost of the bear ult since it is single target only and requires both bars? Playing the devils advocate

Hutch679 · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

- Swarm, buff to both morphs. Probably in the form of a buff as the damage is actually pretty strong. Though making it into a full AoE would be another option

I would disagree here. Swarm deals less than 1k per second compared to 2k+ from most ground placed aoes.

Growing swarm should be made a true aoe, I would still like to see it made like a placed hurricane effect (gains radius and damage over time) ad that would fit the name and usage of the ability.

Growing swarm: This morph casts the ability on yourself. The effect lasts 10 seconds over time and any enemy the swarm touches inflicts [X] magic damage over 10 seconds. This damage places an aoe effect on an enemy that will further spread to other enemies if they come in contact with them. Each time the effect is spread, the damage increases by 1/2/3/4% up to a maximum of 4/8/12/16%.

Radius on self: 8m
Radius on enemies: 4m

Go on. Hit agree or awesome. You know you want to.

I was thinking more along the lines of:

Growing swarm
Summon a cloud of insects at the target location (initially 6 meters radius) for 12 seconds. Every 3 seconds the swarm grows, gaining 2m radius and 50% more damage, up to a max of 12m radius and +150% damage

Pve (you) v. PvP (me) mindset. Why do you want another skill like winters revenge?

Because whenever possible in trials, squishy dps do not want to be in melee range of most enemies. Would much rather have a powerful aoe that can be cast at range than one that requires me to get close to the bad guys

Mag warden is hardly squishy in trials... you lost me.

Vaoh · April 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

How about to decrease the cost of the bear ult since it is single target only and requires both bars? Playing the devils advocate

One part of the issue is that Mag Warden DPS relies on the bear just to be somewhat okay. I’d rather Mag Warden wasn’t absolutely forced to use it, as in some situations you can’t anyway.

Anethum · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

You heard of a skill called Harness Magicka? Cost 1000 more returns 1500 more. Oh an prtects you from all damage, not just projectiles. Maybe actually compare skills before crying "balance"

l2p before comparing such skills.

LMAO, complaining about skills? I'm not complaining about any skills. I find Shimmering to be strong on my tank in PvP. I find it not worth slotting over Harness on my PvE DPS. I find that on my PvP StamDen/MagDen DPS that it is stitutionally I wish I had it or wish I wasn't wasting a slot on it.
- Sure its great against range enemies
- Its absolutely worthless against a StamDPS meaning a wasted a slot.
Personally from day to day find Shimmering to be worth while, and crap. That feeling is also while I think people crying nerf about Shimmering is so laughable. For example Corrupting Pollen would always be a useful debuff, Fletcher Flies would always be a useful DoT. Hell slotting Fletcher for no other reason than the 2% Weapon Damage would be more useful on my StamDen against other StamDPS.

By the way, if you actually want to Troll me, you should provide some substances to your put downs.... Substances
Shimmering - Cost 2189, 578 Return (Pre-Summerset 2189-3*578=455) (Summerset 3240-3*578=1506)
Harness Cost 4131, 1233 Retrun (4131-3*1233=432)
By the way 2189 is on my MagDen, my StamDen its 2384 (Pre-Summerset 2384-3*578=650)

Yet you....

diplomatt wrote: »

3200 is too cheap for shimmering shield. It should at least do not return magicka back with such cost.
It is same overpowered as on live until morrowind relised, because 1200 magicka cost at the end instead 700 is almost same.

Note: 1506 total cost is not the same as Live’s current 455 total cost

shimmering shield is OP on stamina warden, mate and I wrote mainly about this.
And it's cost after 3 returns is 698 magicka.
Also, size of every projectile to absorb with basic max mana 9k is ~18k.
Also, after update, basic ~2700 mana cost of skill will be ~3200.
Idk, where did u got your maths with "455" (suppose u didn't realised that used reduce cost glyph when watched this on your character), i operate current numbers and new cost of skill from patchnote.

Harness magicka is only for mana users.
It return magicka only from magicka based hits.
Also it doesn't grant Major Heroism. And it cost 4k+.
Not even close.
Shimmering is easy spammable on stamina user to have total def from projectiles and 100% uptime of heroism...here nothing to explain more.
So, l2p, or be attentive before answering a comment which u don't understand.

seitekisaki · April 2018

For Magden PVP

I was trying to use the frozen device as a cc instead of looking outside of the class abilities. I started to think that it is very doable, however the immobilize doesn't replace a hard stun. The major maim is amazing, but it only lasts 4 seconds. So I would say giving the skill minor maim and lasting much longer would be more interesting than the latter is today. Though I do understand that as a tank its used for pulling and that seems to me to be horrible for PVE. I would say to give back the class stun. Time Stop seems appealing, but using it channeled makes it interrupt able and the other morph is very slow. This class like everyone else is saying needs something.

Hutch679 · April 2018

seitekisaki wrote: »

For Magden PVP

I was trying to use the frozen device as a cc instead of looking outside of the class abilities. I started to think that it is very doable, however the immobilize doesn't replace a hard stun. The major maim is amazing, but it only lasts 4 seconds. So I would say giving the skill minor maim and lasting much longer would be more interesting than the latter is today. Though I do understand that as a tank its used for pulling and that seems to me to be horrible for PVE. I would say to give back the class stun. Time Stop seems appealing, but using it channeled makes it interrupt able and the other morph is very slow. This class like everyone else is saying needs something.

Better off using a frost staff and clench/reach foe the immobilize than using frozen device bro

_Ahala_ · April 2018

Mag warden needs more options when it comes to dealing damage if it’s to gain any popularity in pvp... saying that green balance is for healing alone and winters embrace for tanking alone just doesn’t work when a class only has 4 ways to damage in pvp... birds, shalks, flies, and permafrost

First for pvp it has a spammable that hits hard but with a secondary effect 15% damage at 28 meters that doesn’t syngize well the 20 meter fissure (good on zos for making this faster as it’s speed is a joke on live)

Second for pvp it has an aoe burst ability which hits after 3 seconds that does good damage but is incredibly hard to land when snared and can be forced to miss completely by knock back stuns and fear (and now it doesn’t stun because high damaging abilities shouldn’t stun... even if they have a long easily avoidable windup, I guess anyone using piercing howl, dizzying swing, incap, leap, crystal blast (lol), or nova (also lol), should be worried if this is the new rule)

It has a useless pet ult which takes both ult bars and frankly isn’t worth using in pvp because it’s activation, which is the only class execute, can be miss it’s mark by the opponent cloaking or literally outrunning it (75 ult < major expedition... well ok then... pls give this beast a gap closer on activation... until then it’s useless in pvp)

Third for pvp it has a dot which is really slow to reach the target and must be double cast for maximum benefit meaning double resources and global cool downs spent (for it’s full cost it’s underwhelming, it should execute like poison injection to increase pve dps and pvp viability)

It has a ground based ice dot that’s is good for pve (could be better though) and bad for pvp, people just walk out of it

And fourth for pvp for pvp viable skills it has permafrost, awesome skill... no complaints... (which means it’s gonna get nerfed if traditions are to be kept) such a shame so few ice dps abilities exist in the game even with sets like winterborne and ysgramors legacy and a passive that increases ice damage... and no icy slab doesn’t count because it can’t be used offensively

One more thing... if animal companions is the dps tree, why are bird of prey and netch buff skills without a dps proc like say dks inferno or nightblades assassins will? Also why don’t we have any on demand stun or execute? Does zos have any planned?

Tldr... magwarden needs help because while it’s excellent for healing and good for tanking, it’s awful for pve and pvp dps due to the clunkiness of its damaging abilities, it’s lack of usable damaging abilities, and it’s lack of key abilities like stuns or executes...

Starlight_Knight · April 2018

Some people think increasing cliff racer was a good idea, but i see this as another huge nerf to timed burst, now i dont have a skill to time with fissure, only heavy attack, it used to be good to line burst by, fissure cliff racer, crushing shock, ( also nice interrupt) or Fissure, cliff racer - soul assult, so you would get the stun and soul assault at same time, was nice. As birds is now just a spam-able its lost its use, and magwarden will suffer for it.

When warden first came out (in fact before it came out ) i was very much looking forward to it and have since the pre morrowind release been playing it as my main, and im sad to see this class receive so many nerfs when i have invested so much time into it.

I have already been intensively theory crafting new builds and ways to play with these upcoming changes, but nothing is comparable to warden in its current state.

seitekisaki · April 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Better off using a frost staff and clench/reach foe the immobilize than using frozen device bro

I would rather use 2h because it's more reliable to get rid of snares. I could nack bar but so many useful skills. It's hard to.

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

You heard of a skill called Harness Magicka? Cost 1000 more returns 1500 more. Oh an prtects you from all damage, not just projectiles. Maybe actually compare skills before crying "balance"

l2p before comparing such skills.

LMAO, complaining about skills? I'm not complaining about any skills. I find Shimmering to be strong on my tank in PvP. I find it not worth slotting over Harness on my PvE DPS. I find that on my PvP StamDen/MagDen DPS that it is stitutionally I wish I had it or wish I wasn't wasting a slot on it.
- Sure its great against range enemies
- Its absolutely worthless against a StamDPS meaning a wasted a slot.
Personally from day to day find Shimmering to be worth while, and crap. That feeling is also while I think people crying nerf about Shimmering is so laughable. For example Corrupting Pollen would always be a useful debuff, Fletcher Flies would always be a useful DoT. Hell slotting Fletcher for no other reason than the 2% Weapon Damage would be more useful on my StamDen against other StamDPS.

By the way, if you actually want to Troll me, you should provide some substances to your put downs.... Substances
Shimmering - Cost 2189, 578 Return (Pre-Summerset 2189-3*578=455) (Summerset 3240-3*578=1506)
Harness Cost 4131, 1233 Retrun (4131-3*1233=432)
By the way 2189 is on my MagDen, my StamDen its 2384 (Pre-Summerset 2384-3*578=650)

Yet you....

diplomatt wrote: »

3200 is too cheap for shimmering shield. It should at least do not return magicka back with such cost.
It is same overpowered as on live until morrowind relised, because 1200 magicka cost at the end instead 700 is almost same.

Note: 1506 total cost is not the same as Live’s current 455 total cost

shimmering shield is OP on stamina warden, mate and I wrote mainly about this.
And it's cost after 3 returns is 698 magicka.
Also, size of every projectile to absorb with basic max mana 9k is ~18k.
Also, after update, basic ~2700 mana cost of skill will be ~3200.
Idk, where did u got your maths with "455" (suppose u didn't realised that used reduce cost glyph when watched this on your character), i operate current numbers and new cost of skill from patchnote.

Harness magicka is only for mana users.
It return magicka only from magicka based hits.
Also it doesn't grant Major Heroism. And it cost 4k+.
Not even close.
Shimmering is easy spammable on stamina user to have total def from projectiles and 100% uptime of heroism...here nothing to explain more.
So, l2p, or be attentive before answering a comment which u don't understand.

I pulled my numbers from my own characters on Live right now. An Altmer MagDen and an Orc StamDen. I pulled my Summerset number from the patch notes (console player) and assumed the same return. The only cost reduction involved is Light Armor passive. Yes I PvP in light armor, the passive are to good not to. I showed you my math and gave you pre and post Summerset numbers. I’m sorry but tripling the the cost of a skill is a huge nerf. I have 5.9k worth of magicka buffs to maintain out of 11k (StamDen). 5k room to cast Shimmering (if I actually have it slotted that day) So not only is L2P Wardens not the issue. May I suggested you L2Math.

Personally , I'd rather run a skill that's 50% useful 100% of the time like another heal, than a skill that's 100% useful 50% at the time.

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

seitekisaki wrote: »

For Magden PVP

I was trying to use the frozen device as a cc instead of looking outside of the class abilities. I started to think that it is very doable, however the immobilize doesn't replace a hard stun. The major maim is amazing, but it only lasts 4 seconds. So I would say giving the skill minor maim and lasting much longer would be more interesting than the latter is today. Though I do understand that as a tank its used for pulling and that seems to me to be horrible for PVE. I would say to give back the class stun. Time Stop seems appealing, but using it channeled makes it interrupt able and the other morph is very slow. This class like everyone else is saying needs something.

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

seitekisaki · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

seitekisaki wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

All I can say there, is that StamDens do well enough in PvP without a stun (yes Dizzy, but Clench) and they do just fine. I can only say I hope that Major Breach puts MagDen somewhere close, though Meteor is much slower than Dawn Breaker.

Theory Crafting
Fissure->Screaming->Clench->Force
Fissure->Fletcher->Clench->Force
Fissure->Impuned->(no LA)Clench->(LA)Force

Anethum · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I pulled my numbers from my own characters on Live right now. An Altmer MagDen and an Orc StamDen. I pulled my Summerset number from the patch notes (console player) and assumed the same return. The only cost reduction involved is Light Armor passive. Yes I PvP in light armor, the passive are to good not to. I showed you my math and gave you pre and post Summerset numbers. I’m sorry but tripling the the cost of a skill is a huge nerf. I have 5.9k worth of magicka buffs to maintain out of 11k (StamDen). 5k room to cast Shimmering (if I actually have it slotted that day) So not only is L2P Wardens not the issue. May I suggested you L2Math.

Personally , I'd rather run a skill that's 50% useful 100% of the time like another heal, than a skill that's 100% useful 50% at the time.

PTS patchnote 4.0.0: Crystallized Shield: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240 Magicka from 2701.
(https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407045/pts-patch-notes-v4-0-0/p1)

Here is a mistake, real basic magicka cost is 2432 magicka on live now. Idk, maybe 1 grade cost was 2701, can't check it, both my wardens with 4th grade skills. In such case 4th grade will cost 3240-359 mana also...2889...zero nerf.

If cost increase is 3240 - 2342 = 898 , it's at least better because easy manageble even if cost will be 4k, but if 3240-2701(or 2889-2342) = 539...its stupid nothing, simply zero, joke, this permanent heroism and defence from no matter how big projectiles is stupidly cheap.

P.s: manawarden is not so unbalanced as stamina and the main issue to stamden is cheap as *** shimmering.

Stibbons · April 2018

Warden bear is just horrible in wvw. Is just vanishes on fight 50% of time and many times it just not come back ever

Maura_Neysa · April 2018

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

I pulled my numbers from my own characters on Live right now. An Altmer MagDen and an Orc StamDen. I pulled my Summerset number from the patch notes (console player) and assumed the same return. The only cost reduction involved is Light Armor passive. Yes I PvP in light armor, the passive are to good not to. I showed you my math and gave you pre and post Summerset numbers. I’m sorry but tripling the the cost of a skill is a huge nerf. I have 5.9k worth of magicka buffs to maintain out of 11k (StamDen). 5k room to cast Shimmering (if I actually have it slotted that day) So not only is L2P Wardens not the issue. May I suggested you L2Math.

Personally , I'd rather run a skill that's 50% useful 100% of the time like another heal, than a skill that's 100% useful 50% at the time.

PTS patchnote 4.0.0: Crystallized Shield: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240 Magicka from 2701.
(https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407045/pts-patch-notes-v4-0-0/p1)

Here is a mistake, real basic magicka cost is 2432 magicka on live now. Idk, maybe 1 grade cost was 2701, can't check it, both my wardens with 4th grade skills. In such case 4th grade will cost 3240-359 mana also...2889...zero nerf.

If cost increase is 3240 - 2342Where is 2342 from? Is it a typo of your 2432 above? = 898 , it's at least better because easy manageble even if cost will be 4k, but if 3240-2701(or 2889-2342)Where is 2889 from? Is this the cost at lvl4?[color] = 539...its stupid nothing, simply zero, joke, this permanent heroism and defence from no matter how big projectiles is stupidly cheap.

P.s: manawarden is not so unbalanced as stamina and the main issue to stamden is cheap as *** shimmering.

Wow, What is going on in the math above.....? Are you accounting for the 578 return from each of the 3 absorbed projectiles?
Math from my StamDen/MagDen on Live on XBox

Pre-Summerset Mag Shimmering - Cost 2189, 578 Return per projectile - 2189-3*578=Total Cost 455(in light armor)
Pre-Summerset Stam Shimmering Cost 2384, 578 Retrun per proectile - 2384-3*578=Total Cost 650
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506
Even if lvl4 is also cheaper post Summerset 2701-2384=317, 3240-317=2923
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2923, 578 Return per projectile - 2923-3*578=Total Cost 1189
So still a Cost doubling

Here just straight up from the 4.0.0 patch notes
Pre-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2701, 578 Return per projectile - 2701-3*578=Total Cost 967
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506
Still enough to push the next cast into another full 2 second regen loop on any StamDen

Once again. Yeah Shimmering is cheap, its also entirely useless against half of Cryodiil. More than half since Stam>Mag right now.
Considering Wardens only have 4 damage skills, its pretty clear they where meant to be able to generate high Ulti to get a 5th damage skill. Even more clear since Warden Ulti Gen just got buffed again in the form of Nature's Grasp. A skill that didn't use to generate Ulti, and now it does.
Also considering that the Warden is weakest against the actual strongest class, that makes up 40% of Cryodiil, (Stamblade) I'd also call that balance.

Hutch679 · April 2018

seitekisaki wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Better off using a frost staff and clench/reach foe the immobilize than using frozen device bro

I would rather use 2h because it's more reliable to get rid of snares. I could nack bar but so many useful skills. It's hard to.

Well that's your trade off. Stack a higher stam pool for break free and dodge roll. Use blue betty as a purge. Idk about 2h man... u lose sooooo much to get forward momentum...

Hutch679 · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

seitekisaki wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

All I can say there, is that StamDens do well enough in PvP without a stun (yes Dizzy, but Clench) and they do just fine. I can only say I hope that Major Breach puts MagDen somewhere close, though Meteor is much slower than Dawn Breaker.

Theory Crafting
Fissure->Screaming->Clench->Force
Fissure->Fletcher->Clench->Force
Fissure->Impuned->(no LA)Clench->(LA)Force

All the combos you mention, except the fissure, can be blocked or dodge rolled. Ice comet is AWESOME on magden, BUT it's easily blocked. This means you need a stun. And if youj use clench, and it can be blocked/dodged, then you cannot land a meteor on a good opponent. Back to the drawing board.

lucky_Sage · April 2018

Ludof wrote: »

Nice nerf to magden.

It's crap in both PvE and PvP now.
I'll just play sorc, since you love it so much...

idk to me magwardens just felt like week sorcs since launch there kits the same just animation and a harder to hit timed burst.
they might not of been bad if winter embrace was the dd line and frost staff might of got buffed to increase spell pen instead of some stupid tanking.

Joy_Division · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

seitekisaki wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

@seitekisaki Chilled, Frost’s secondary effect already gives you Minor Maim. Which now that Gate does damage plus Warden 200% chance to proc, plus Destro 100% chance to proc, you already are going to get that. So frigging no, Gate should not get Minor Maim over Major. Especially when you then add in PvE where It’s a Warden Tank primary skill.

That's all fine. I get that now, thanks. My whole main problem though was that I still want a class cc that works well. I mean flame reach is block able everyone else has something that can be applied. Just to go down the list. fossilize, fear, rune cage, and eclipse. Which ya know said to give back the class stun its not helping dps for PVE and it doesn't help much for PVP, or change Time Stop a bit.

All I can say there, is that StamDens do well enough in PvP without a stun (yes Dizzy, but Clench) and they do just fine. I can only say I hope that Major Breach puts MagDen somewhere close, though Meteor is much slower than Dawn Breaker.

This looking at things from a Warden perspective, i.e. in a vacuum, prevent from seeing how it is a confluence of factors, many of which come from outside Warden mechanics, that make PvP Stam Wardens really strong and PvP Magicka Wardens find it *really* hard to be competitive at anything besides healer-support tank.

My stam Warden doesn't care that Sub Assault has no stun because my cheap burst ultimate Dawnbreaker does just this (as does a strong accessible spammable Dizzying Swing). My magicka Warden does care because my Dawnbreaker will hit like a wet noodle and Flame reach does not nearly hit as hard as Dizzying Swing.

My stam warden also has an execute to finish off weakened opponents. My magicka Warden does not.

My stam Warden doesn't care that my Warden skills just do damage because more versatile skills are offered in the weapon lines. My magicka Waden does because the're only Force Pulse that can offer some status effects.

The warden skillline is a lot more convenient as a base for stamina because stam can get all the stuff missing in their native skill line elsewhere. Magicka can't. So stam wardens have options to be versatile and strong at whatever they do, whereas magicka Wardens have too many holes that get exposed in competitive settings. No execute, no CC, no secondary effects, too few damage skills (all easily avoidable), what exactly are they supposed to do to kill a good player?

Generally I don't agree with the notion floated out there that the devs don;t play the game because I know for a fact some do and they play it better than many of the people who criticize them. That being said, I am confident that none of developers have put a serious effort in trying to open world PvP with a magicka warden. Because if they did, the class's offensive capabilities and possibilities would not be so limited.

Skander · April 2018

I still don't understand how the warden bear doesn't have the base regeneretion sorc pets do

Anethum · April 2018

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Here just straight up from the 4.0.0 patch notes
Pre-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2701, 578 Return per projectile - 2701-3*578=Total Cost 967
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506

i think 2701 cost is for not developed skill. rank 4 cost 2432.
if 3240 is for same not developed skill, it will cost 2889.
It's stamwarden, without any gear equipped...
So, almost no difference in cost. It's too cheap.

and here cost in 7 light on my argonian and it's even more ridiculous after 3 hits.

Stamden and stamplar are only 2 classes who don't need more max and/or regen magicka than basic.
And stamplar at least haven't burst healing like stam warden and nothing to counter projectiles except shield ulti or defencive posture...

P.s: Your math is wrong.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

Earrindo wrote: »

After a year of reading Warden threads, I wish I could say I am surprised.

Warden threads have two flavors; Wardens need a buff, or Wardens are P2W or some garbage like that.

I cannot understand why Zenimax is having such a difficult time with this. They are clearly choosing to pursue a more traditional MMO business model of releasing an expansion, then with the next expansion wrapping the previous expansions into the base game.
They may be doing a bit of a clunky job of it at the moment, but that's what this is.

All the big MMOs release classes with expansions occasionally. Now that we are transitioning to a more traditional model, I just cannot fathom why Wardens are being so thoroughly left behind.
After reading all the aforementioned Warden threads, nobody is asking for the moon here. They just want Wardens to be on par with other classes and even, heaven forbid, provide some unique functionality or offer some unique gameplay and build options.

I can only hope Zenimax, or really @ZOS_Wrobel will tend to the Warden class and at the very least share their plans with us regarding the future of Wardens.

I keep saying this and I'll likely say it again: Warden is the new Templar. Templar is still the Templar though. Both of these classes are Healy-Tankies in design. I think you should be very concerned about them updating to Damage because it'll hurt you in other ways. I love Warden and I love Templar. In style I really like both of them quite a lot. I'm fairly certain the complaints people are making that no one cares isn't entirely right. I do care but I'm not sure what to offer honestly. The fissure change is preposterous and I'm dumbfounded by it for the same reasons I'm dumbfounded by the way they've gutted Templar Cc or created competitive Repentance. I have a gut feeling that they are making long term nerfs to get people sick of certain abilities so they can later rewrite an ability. I hate all the flipflops on design and it is my sincere hope they can bring this game to a state of overall balance. I personally don't like all the addition of new sets. I think people who play the game to get some new set are ridiculous. The game should be fun on its own merits in my view, but I think I'm in the minority of mmo players. Most MMO players seem to want things always changing whether it be rules, equipment, classes, etc. I don't really like this. I'm more interested in the content offering us new challenges and interesting zones to play in. I like new skill lines for added variety as well. This is where I'd like to see variety.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

diplomatt wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Here just straight up from the 4.0.0 patch notes
Pre-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 2701, 578 Return per projectile - 2701-3*578=Total Cost 967
Post-Summerset Shimmering - Cost 3240, 578 Return per projectile - 3240-3*578=Total Cost 1506

i think 2701 cost is for not developed skill. rank 4 cost 2432.
if 3240 is for same not developed skill, it will cost 2889.
It's stamwarden, without any gear equipped...
So, almost no difference in cost. It's too cheap.

and here cost in 7 light on my argonian and it's even more ridiculous after 3 hits.

Stamden and stamplar are only 2 classes who don't need more max and/or regen magicka than basic.
And stamplar at least haven't burst healing like stam warden and nothing to counter projectiles except shield ulti or defencive posture...

P.s: Your math is wrong.

Your Argonian looks an awful lot like my Warden Argonian, Blue Gill.

Skander · April 2018

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

Hutch679 · April 2018

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

Skander · April 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

The only good thing about that is the major heroism. Without it they are just *** wings.

Hutch679 · April 2018

Skander wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You know how to fix shimmering shield?

this morph doesn't give you back magicka

When crystalize slab still will.

Don't nerf the skill as a whole, nerf the morph

How do i hit disagree?

The only good thing about that is the major heroism. Without it they are just *** wings.

So you think they should nerf one morph and rebalance the other to make it harder for you to choose which to pick? Why shouldn't they just buff the other morph and leave shimmering as is?

twistedmonk · April 2018

not sure if anybody mentioned, but for PvE magwarden, the skill timers all have different cooldowns so its impossible to come up with a good rotation.

which another reason why their dps is meh because your dots fall off because you can't fit everything into a smooth rotation.

the last thing you want to do is staring at dot timers in trials, you will just die if you are not watching the fight.

so this needs fixed as well as many other comments from above, or you might as well just delete magwarden.

class has been garbage since release. its been a year now (?)

_Ahala_ · April 2018

No matter what we do to balance shimmering shield and crystallized slab, the class, or magden specifically, needs some love in terms of damaging abilities and cc availability for pvp. And yes a simplified dps rotation with some class damage based group utility would go a long way towards making magden viable for pve dps.

Please... Let’s not turn this thread into another “I hate stamden so let’s ignore the fact that magden is an endangered species” circumstance... the PTW argument when half the class is good and the other half literally the worst is starting to get old... really old