Minno wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Well maybe next week we will actually get some balance changes to things like rune focus, repentance, something made to immobilize, more resource return options... to make us more balanced with other classes...

But if not i suppose ill just be going to the psjic order skill line to get some of those things to my templars tank.... and there is always the heavy armor buff ability if i want mobility..sadly its not the best but atleast its mobile

Only change this week is that your template toons can now use all the psijic skilline instead of grinding it for 10 hours.

This will REALLY open up tests for templars for both tank/dd roles.

Mihael wrote: »

Next week

Repentance: this ability is restoring too many resources. It will now only restore health.

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Well maybe next week we will actually get some balance changes to things like rune focus, repentance, something made to immobilize, more resource return options... to make us more balanced with other classes...

But if not i suppose ill just be going to the psjic order skill line to get some of those things to my templars tank.... and there is always the heavy armor buff ability if i want mobility..sadly its not the best but atleast its mobile

Only change this week is that your template toons can now use all the psijic skilline instead of grinding it for 10 hours.

This will REALLY open up tests for templars for both tank/dd roles.

Meditate and time stop will definitely be on my load out some where if we don’t get Templar fixes and with restoring focus and the defense buff you get from the psjic passive while using meditate it will be a nice ability to restore your resources ... but Im holding out hope that they will balance templars next week... if they don’t then what we I’ll just give up

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Being a Templar main since I've started playing this game (mostly stam), here's my feedback for the whole Templar class, skill by skill. I got very tired while compiling this so please forgive any blunders.

1. Aedric Spear

1.1 Radial Sweep
What I would change in this skill is: removing the "pulse dot" and bundling it into the base sweep. That would give templar a bit more burst and make the whole ultimate scale on direct damage instead of being part-direct part dot. OR I would attach the dot to enemies that are hit, like Dawnbreaker. Currently, for the ultimate to deal its full damage, you need to stay "glued" on your enemy.

1.1.1 Empowering Sweep
I see no problems here, nice mitigation tool with some reward for using when crowded. Useful for tanks.

1.1.2 Crescent Sweep
It would be a nice change if it snared or even knocked down enemies in front of you, the current passives of Aedric Spear just don't justify slotting this over Dawnbreaker (+3% weapon damage and stun with extra burst OR +8% weapon damage, +20% damage against undead, WW and daedra)

1.2 Puncturing Strikes
Despite being one of the class defining skills for Templar, I find it particularly lackluster. Its a channel, so it feels slow and clunky and doesn't help with weaving. CP scaling seems to still be bugged so thats a priority for this skill. It has a 1.1 cast time where you cant do anything without canceling your channel. The snare is applied on the last hit, which helps with follow-up but eh... Not that much really.
What I would change: Move the snare into the INITIAL hit. That would help the whole combo to hit unless the target is immune to snares. Also, that would be a little controversial but the cast time could be entirely removed, make the skill instant with the spear hitting in front of you without locking your character into a channel. Testing would be needed to see if that wouldn't make the skill too OP.
Another idea could be just reworking the skill, make it deal a single, instant blow, with every cast that hits something adds one stack to this skill, making it deal more damage, capping at some value (like, lets say, +30% damage). It would work a bit like Bow's "Hawk Eye" passive, rewarding sequential and fast strikes. The time for all stacks to fall off would be like 10 seconds, since differently from light attacks, this skill would actually cost resources to maintain.

1.2.1 Biting Jabs
Nothing not covered in main skill's feedback.

1.2.2 Puncturing Sweep
Nothing not covered in main skill's feedback.

1.3 Piercing Javelin
Ah, our lovely and only hard CC... Shame it sucks though. Echoing what most templar players here said, this skill actually hurts our damage, since it takes enemies out of reach from our sweeps/jabs. The stun is very short, could be something like 2.5 seconds base. The skill is not that bursty from what I remember the few time I've used it, so a longer stun wouldn't make the skill OP.
Make the skill a knockdown or stun instead of knock-back, then we'll talk.
1.3.1 Aurora Javelin
"Deals up to 40% more damage based on the distance the spear travels". But templar's damage and play-style is mostly melee. So not only we need to throw the spear at a very distant target to deal more damage, that skill also takes the enemy even farther from us.
I would rework this skill. Make the spear stay lodged on the enemy for 3 seconds, and making them pulse each second with a AOE damage on themselves and other enemies. The animation could be the one templars have with "Radial Sweep" (light pulse).
1.3.2 Binding Javelin
Scales with stamina and stuns for longer. Not good honestly. I would remove the extra stun duration (and add it to the base skill) and add a same duration root to the knockdown/stun, it would make the skill the "Stamplar's Petrify", that would make it a powerful CC since it would be needed to break free and roll dodge of purge the root, enough time to deal some punishment.

1.4 Focused Charge
I really don't know whats wrong with this skills animation, maybe its that little jump at the end, or some z-axis stuff? Fact about this skill is: very hard to use and very easy to bug. 20% of the time you don't go anywhere, and 10% you go into hyper-space at a loading screen. Take a look at this skills coding and animation to make it more reliable, especially in rough terrain. And please remove the minimum distance required, it makes the skill kinda useless when we are at melee range.
1.4.1 Explosive Charge
Hardly any magplar uses this morph, strong candidate for a rework (or even stam morph). Make it a ground targeted move, and reduce the castable range a bit to like 20 or even 15 meters. You land at the spot marked instead of enemy, interrupting any casting enemies in a 8 meters radius (up from 5, on par with DK's "Inhale"). That would make it a decent mobility tool, a stacking cost may be necessary like Sorcerer's "Bolt Escape"
1.4.2 Toppling Charge
Nothing not covered in main skill's feedback.

1.5 Spear Shards
Another class defining skill, especially for healers (targeted, fast sustain). The base skill itself is okay IMO.
1.5.1 Luminous Shards
Nothing to add here, I find it a useful tool.
1.5.2 Blazing Spear
Lots and lots and lots and lots of templars disagree on the CC removal of Blazing Spear, either give it back or turn Piercing Javelin into a more usful CC (my thoughts on that skill above).

1.6 Sun Shield
Health scaling shields arent really that hot. Even tanks dont find them that much attractive, DK's mainly spam "Obsidian Shield" for stamina return and a little ally protection. Magplar's main defense in PVP is healing, but Defiles are handed down like candy nowadays so... I would make sun shield scale with max magicka, maybe even with lower scaling that Sorcerer's shields, and see what happens. People may argue that would make "healbots" unbearable, but this skill is not cheap at all. Not sure if a "healbot" can sustain keeping this shield up.
1.6.1 Radiant Ward
This would be the health-scaling shield for tanks, keep the skill mostly the same, reduced cost and all. But with a nice twist that would help templar tanks: when the shield dissolves, restores its cost to the highest max resource (so it would return stamina if your max stam is higher, for example) based on how much the shield was depleted before expiring. If the shield is broken by damage, it refunds immediately. I would cap the restore to like 80% of its cost. That would reward tanks for using this skill before a damage spike.
1.6.2 Blazing Shield
Instead of exploding at the end, I would make that each ranged direct hit on this shield returns a magic-based damage projectile, much like wardens "Crystallized Slab".

1.7 Piercing Spear
"Increases your Critical Damage done and your damage against blocking targets by 5%/10% while you have an Aedric Spear ability slotted."
Damage focused passive for PVP and PVE, increasing critical damage done and damage against blocking targets. Instead of dealing more damage to a blocking target (damage that would be pitiful anyway, especially against tanks on PVP), I would alter the passive that a Aedric Spear skill hit against a blocking target increases their blocking cost by, lets say, 5%/10% for 3 seconds, without cooldown, so that would favor pressuring enemies out of block since we have no hard cc that goes through it.

1.8 Spear Wall
"Increases the amount of damage you can block from melee attacks by 7%/15% while you have an Aedric Spear ability slotted.". As many other have said, remove the skill slotted requirement, DK's can block all kind of damage with "Iron Skin" and Templars block more, but only specific melee damage, seems balanced.

1.9 Burning Light
"When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional 518/1037 Physical Damage or 518/1036 Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.". Again echoing great templar players out there: Make the cooldown per enemy, and 1s.

1.A (Yes, went hexadecimal here, sorry) Balanced Warrior
"Increases your Weapon Damage by 3%/6% and Spell Resistance by 1320/2640."
Well, at least one passive is useful for stamplars, yay! That doesnt mean I'm perfectly fine with it. Some people suggested that it should give both Spell Damage, Weapon Damage, Spell Resistance and Physical Resistance. IMO That would make the passive too overloaded and powerful. My take on this passive would be:
"Increases your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage by 3%/6%, whichever is higher. Increases Spell Resistance or Physical Resistance by 1320/2640, whichever is lower."
That would make the passive useful for all templars, still keeping the buff count at 2.


2.Dawn's Wrath

2.1 Nova
Nice and nifty skill for damage mitigation. Base skill is fine IMO.
2.1.1 Solar Prison
We could make this more useful for DPS with a little change. After the synergy is used, all other ticks from Solar Prison get increased damage. That would reward fast response of allies.
2.1.2 Solar Disturbance
Seems aimed for mobile fights, even with summerset buff, it seems not enough, people will just get out and purge the maim. I would change it to a targeted that lands the Solar Disturbance on one enemy, and it would follow that enemy like destro's "Eye of the Storm", applying a 30% snare (down from 65, since its mobile now) and Major Maim to said enemy and every other on radius every second for 4 seconds, also the Solar Disturbance would not be purgeable, but it could be countered by a well placed Negate. One ally on melee range of that enemy could activate "Supernova" as normmal. That would be good for highly mobile PVP battles or even some more hectic PVE battles (placing it on the boss and stacking the adds around it), also good for splitting someone from his/her zerg or countering ball groups running Eye of the Storm.

2.2 Sun Fire
I see no problems with this skill or its morphs. I'm not a magplar expert though, so if any magplar out there want something changed here, I'll gladly edit it here.

2.3 Solar Flare
Ugh, cast times. Empower is getting nerfed, so we could have a nice look at this skill. Since DK's "Empowering Chains", instant gap closer is getting 2 empower stacks, could we please have 2 stacks here too? It deals high damage, but cannot self empower anymore and has a cast time and sloooow projectile travel time.
2.3.1 Dark Flare
As you said you would, make the Major Defile debuff undodgeable, and the skill seems OK for now. Further adjustments may be needed but nothing urgent i guess.
2.3.2 Solar Barrage
I appreciate the rework, a little bit better than the old Solar Barrage but not enough. Remove the cast time even if a damage reduction is needed for doing so. It disrupts PVE rotations (that will benefit the most from empower anyway) and doesn't add anything for PVP, so I would remove the cast time (with or without damage nerf) and make it scale like "Flames of Oblivion", from your highest stat, still dealing magic damage. Could be useful for some stamplars.

2.4 Backlash
The base skill seems OK to me, one of the few damage

2.5 Eclipse
It seems like ZOs can't find a good place for this skill. It looks mostly okay with punishing direct attackers, it just needs to have its bugs looked at (CC immunity when purged, etc).
2.5.1 Total Dark
I'm okay with this morph, adds to the defend and punish theme.
2.5.2 Unstable Core
Thats what I would change. As @Cinbri said, "Enduring Rays" passive works now against this skills DPS. So I would make it different on the bomb. I would make the damage be scaled for every second of remaining duration at the moment its "broken free of", so if base damage is 1000, a 6 second Unstable Core would deal 6k (simplest multiplication for the sake of example, you can apply any balancing on this calculation here) to the enemy if he immediately breaks free. So a smart player should wait a bit for the damage to become manageable before breaking free, or purge (imo purge should not set the bomb off), while a smart templar would try to follow up Unstable Core with a hard CC to force the enemy to break the bubble with the other CC to burst them down.

2.6 Radiant Destruction
First, as @Cinbri said, remove the empty cast timer on the skill, making it a bit faster. And fix the bug that makes the Templar get stuck channeling the beam on a dead corpse. The morphs seem OK to me.

2.7 Enduring Rays
I dont know. Really don't like passives that don't benefit the whole tree. Cant we add those 2 seconds to Backlash secondary effects too? 8 seconds of debuffs, 8 seconds for collecting damage. 8 seconds of healing pool. I dont see any problems. As for Radiant Destruction, 2 seconds of channel would be too much, so maybe a little other buff to the skill like "Radiant leaves a small dot on the enemy for 3 seconds" just so the passive would not feel useless to its own skill.

2.8 Prism
Seems ok to me. On par with other classes.

2.9 Illuminate
Seems ok to me. On par with other classes.

2.A Restoring Spirit
A small increase to 3%/6% would be nice and help especially stamplar's botched sustain.

3. Restoring Light

3.1 Rite of Passage
The base skill is very strong, even while it disables you, OK to me.
3.1.1 Rememberance
Im with @Cinbri again on this. This morph should not disable the caster anymore, warden's ultimates and even resto ultimate are much stronger than this morph.
3.1.2 Practiced Incantation
Keep as it is, its strong for group healing.

3.2 Rushed Ceremony
Oh "healbots", what have you done to this skill... Its been nerfed over and over and over. We should take a look at Warden's "Fungal Growth" and see how its much better even as a self burst heal. Fungal always will heal you, and as a bonus heal all allies in a not-that-tight cone in front of you. And when morphed will either heal you more of apply regen buffs to anyone healed. While Rushed Ceremony can end up healing some random person who's in worse situation than you are and you end up dead because your healing skill decided to be "smart" and not save you.
Fixes needed: Fix that animation bug that makes the caster be briefly rooted while casting this skill.
What I would change: Make the cone a little tighter than what it is now (but still wider than warden's, since no buffs attached) and heal everyone on that cone.
3.2.1 Honor The Dead
Nice buff on recovery. But I would make this skill what "Dragon Blood" is for DK's or "Dark Cloak" is for NB's, a tanking heal based on health (so no cone). So I would start by healing 20% of our max health immediately and 10% as a heal over time. AND instead of restoring the ability cost as magicka, restores it as your highest max resource, again helping templar tanks to hold block.
3.2.2 Breath of Life
The extra heal goes outside the cone so its OK to me.

3.3 Healing Ritual
I want to see *** the changes to "the clap" pan out before making any other comments.

3.4 Restoring Aura
Tbh, i like the old restoring aura much more, I know major recoveries are common buffs, but so is minor magickasteal. Especially since rarely you need to apply it on more than one enemy, and "Elemental Drain" does that job pretty nicely, also being free and applying major breach.
I would change it to: Applies Major Endurance, Major Intellect and Major Fortitude to all allies in the 12 meter radius for 10 seconds, and applies the same minor buffs to these allies but for 15 seconds. There is a powerful resource management tool for everyone that doesnt chug pots on cooldown.
3.4.1 Radiant Aura
I would keep the range increase, with the base changes.
3.4.2 Repentance
This skill needs a rework. Making stamplars compete for bodies is beyond absurd and hurts the very core of Templar's supportive role. I would make it an AOE that is targeted casted on the ground like caltrops, dealing low damage (and snaring by Sacred Ground passive) and restoring x stamina to the caster each time it deals damage, with 1 second cooldown. Give it a low cost that is compensated by its recovery (see NB's leeching strikes for reference).

3.5 Cleansing Ritual
Not a healer/magplar expert so I would leave it to you guys.

3.6 Rune Focus
Make the buff stick with the caster, its a QoL update that will make many Templar's throw their hands in the air and praise the sun \[T]/
As much as I would be tempted to add a stamina restore to Restoring Focus, remember that this skill already gives you Major Resolve, Major Ward, Minor Protection, Minor Vitality and Minor Mending (by Sacred Ground passive). I would not like to overload the skill.

3.7 Mending
Could see a little increase, a 12% increased heal wont save a near-death ally easily

3.8 Sacred Ground
The passive is OK if we count that it still needs to affect ourselves even while Rune Focus is not a circle anymore. So mobile minor mending.

3.9 Light Weaver
Ugh, again those passives that doesn't help the whole skill line, sacred ground also does not buff 100% of the skills, but the Rune Focus QoL does enough to compensate for it. If you're keeping those passives locked, please make them more useful. I would add a 3 flat seconds to Restoring Aura (and Repentance), Minor Heroism to all allies under 60% healed by Healing Ritual for 6 seconds, and Major Heroism instead if the ally was under 25% health. Keep the Rite of Passage passive.

3.A Master Ritualist
I really dont know what to do with this passive, leaving to you guys again.

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

actually its pretty amazing, that there are so many templars caring for the game and didnt abandon the class.

People posting here doesn't necessarily mean they're still actively playing their Templar on live.

Yeah it's more like we are all posting here so we can actually play our Templars on live in any role other than a healer

Checkmath wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

So next patch I’ll have a choice between frost staff and two hander instead of dual wield. Wonder which one

You can go 2h instead of dual wield right, but lightning staves also need to be considered when using jabs. They also count as 2 pieces, give additional 8% damage to your jabs, shards and reflective light and also provide now improved weaving damage.

Froststaff rather would be a replacement for sword and shield and definitely is useful together with ele drai extran as backbar weapon, just no spellwall ultimate tough.

What's better, infused shield giving 3k extra max mag or running dual weld for the 5% extra DMG done?

sry @Minno i dont understand your question about the infused shield....if you put a magicka glyph on an infused shield you roughly gain 1k magicka and dual wield not only provides 5% more extra damage, but also an increase of base spelldamage.

Feanor wrote: »

Don’t Swords no longer affect base Spell Damage? I remember they changed this when they overhauled weapons.

Minno wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Well maybe next week we will actually get some balance changes to things like rune focus, repentance, something made to immobilize, more resource return options... to make us more balanced with other classes...

But if not i suppose ill just be going to the psjic order skill line to get some of those things to my templars tank.... and there is always the heavy armor buff ability if i want mobility..sadly its not the best but atleast its mobile

Only change this week is that your template toons can now use all the psijic skilline instead of grinding it for 10 hours.

This will REALLY open up tests for templars for both tank/dd roles.

Meditate and time stop will definitely be on my load out some where if we don’t get Templar fixes and with restoring focus and the defense buff you get from the psjic passive while using meditate it will be a nice ability to restore your resources ... but Im holding out hope that they will balance templars next week... if they don’t then what we I’ll just give up

I still need to test all those abilities in combat. I assume restoring rune buffs the heal off meditate.

mocap wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I feel like their intent is healer = resto staff

The ability for a templar to pop a quick heal for that ally in trouble or random noob that just tried to help you do that world boss is pretty much gutted. So templars can no longer be utility/support/additional dps characters in groups, and there is no reason to not use HotD to heal yourself. It's heal or tank or GTFO.

I think it's possible to restore original BoL power, you just need to sacrifce some damage or sustain and get as many healing bonuses you can (Ritual, Blessed, Sanctuary, Argonian).
OR
use Healing Ritual instead of BoL. This one is way more powerful and with Cost Reduction glyphs + Infused trait (almost -1000 spell cost reduction) + Seducer + 7 light armor, cost of this skill will be around 4K. Not that much.

casparian wrote: »

I think it's worth mentioning the new Shattering Rocks in this thread. In Summerset, here's how that ability will work:

Shattering Rocks (Petrify morph): This morph has been redesigned so that when the stun ends, it causes the enemy’s next attack to heal their target.

In other words, it's essentially the good version of Total Dark now. It will be an undodgeable, unblockable stun (so an actual CC) that grants about the same amount of healing that Total Dark typically gets against non-scrub enemies (i.e., one attack's worth). The only advantage Total Dark has is its range. (No, Total Dark's damage return isn't an advantage over Shattering Rocks -- it's an attempt to make up for the fact that Total Dark isn't a real CC that allows me to damage the target while they're stunned. I think I safely speak for all Templars when I say we'd rather have a real CC.)

If Total Dark worked this way, magplars not in a group support role would be in a much better place. It's unclear to me why ZOS thinks that the Templar class either doesn't need or shouldn't have a skill like this.