PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Templar Balance

Cinbri

What I believe ZoS must do is fix existing bugs and make class skills in line with other classes swithes.

1. Bugs, that plaguing Templar class, must be fixed. I will quote my post from Dragonbones dlc:

Cinbri wrote: »

Templar Life Matters

1. Radial Sweep hitbox bugged - Radial Sweep and both of its morph can bug and miss target on initial hit, no matter how close it stands to caster, tried ult without animation cancelling and it still bugged, so it not related to animation cancelling like snb ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLc3iIJL3EY

3. Explosive Charge missing cloacked targets - if enemy is cloacked it won't be revealed by AoE nor will receive AoE damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y

4. Spear Shards initial hit counts as dot - while it is obvious that initial AoE hit is direct damage attack like Impulse or wardens ice shards, it counting as DoT and buffed by dot cp. As result it can't proc things that proc on direct attacks.

5. Solar Barrage - while being dot itself it not boosting by dot cp but boosting by direct damage cp. However can't proc things that proc on direct damage like Nerien/Bloodthorn/Varen sets, but proc dot things like Valkyn.

6. Backlash - while being direct attack it's initial hit can't proc things that proc on direct attacks, like Nerien set or Bloodthorn set.

7. Eclipse/Unstable Core - while every damage return proc counted as direct attack, it can't proc Bloodthorn set 5pc bonus, while can proc other sets like Nerien.

Magnetic bomb of Unstable Core - while counted as direct aoe explosion for CP it cant proc sets that proc on direct attacks like Nerien and Bloodthorn, also set like Varen Legacy doesn't count it as direct aoe attack and not buff it.

Still granting CC Immunity on cleansing it. It was considered as bug in Morrowind update but still staying after overhaul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On85vQPv9OE

Grant CC Immunity on expire is inconsistent and allow it apply on CC immune enemies, that bring to weird situation when enemy has both CC effect and CC Immunity on him:


8. Rushed Ceremony animation stutter - same like old Barrage had - upon cast sometimes your char rooted for miliseconds during casting animation.

By using line of horizon you can see that it stop moving, it means that it not just some visual illusion of cast. Very annoying when it occure while kiting.

9. Rite of Passage - healing ignore any LoS.

10. Healing Ritual - healing ignore LoS.

11. Rune Focus - despite old change to mechanic of no longer affect allies inside but caster, it still counting as support buff of ally and thus casting it removing buffs like Rapid Maneuver, even if there is no ally nor enemy, that can be affected by snare, are nearby.


12. Radiant Aura - doesn't apply its debuff on stealthed or cloacked enemy. Bugged this way back when it changed to stop revealing invisible targets.


13. Repentance - still work to absorb hp and stamina on Shadowrend set.


14. Javelin double CC - doesn't apply CC immunity upon CCing enemy, allowing to use knockback several times upon fast cast.

As you can see 1st Javelin didn't grant cc immunity for its duration of CC, grant it only on expire, almost same problem as Eclipse has. LUI addon also shows 2 Stun effects used.

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Spear Shards - cosmetic problems:
Initial skill and Luminous Shards missing its red telegraph despite any version of skill has DoT in it:


Blazing Spear does have it but despite fix to AoE radius of damage red telegraph wasn't update and thus show wrong radius, making people wonder why they getting hit by it:

As you can see something in visual setting also makes Spear invisible.

2. Solar Barrage - still same cosmetic bug that make visual apply on caster upon weaving light attack right after cast:


3. Burning Light - it's proc is blockable. While Implosion is unblockable. It is proc only on Shards aoe or channel of Strikes in addition to several skills with low procrate and unable to proc on dots/bleeds weapon damage, in addition that templar damage is pressure and it lack of tools against tanks+ all classes will get blocking buff next update - we could get unblockable BL too.

4. Radiant Destruction - same as once Soul Assault - it should loose its duration of empty channel in the beginning of skill. This empty duration lead to decreased reliability of execute coz: delayed damage is harder to use against enemy in pvp when every second allow enemy to get out of execute range, making execute unviable. In case of RD that leading to even worse problems:
1. Delayed cast allow enemy simply cancel your execute by interrupt you and prevent from using it all along:

^^Countered before harm even done. Purging result in same result
2. Another example is that execute is not automatically cancelling empty channel and such in group play when you start cast it on enemy who was killed meanwhile by teammates - you stuck in channeling full beam on corpse and forced manually cancel it:

^^Looks nice but feels terrible.
Unlike sorc execute you cant blockcast it nor animation cancel, and this problem to channel damage not same second but after empty channel duration making you vulnerable to counter-attacks and RD overall "slower".

5. Not pure Templar but still related - Pirate Skeleton set - bugged for quite a long and allow its 2pc Minor Defile to be purgable:
After some time its debuff was placed in category of buffs to prevent it being purged by skills, yet this treatment stopped working in some of the patches and it cleansable once again. Bug allowing to bypass set mechanic to grant very strong bonus and thus should be finally fixed.

Image hosting deleted most of images for some reason. But anyway as you can see majority of bugs remained. IDK about Jabs scaling.

2. Spear Wall passive should not require aedric skill to be on bar:
First of all, it would help promote frost magicka tanking, when tank wont have required to waste bar on aedric skill, it already forced to use frost stafd skill to proc frost passives, secondly it will help in PvP for mitigation as many builds not utilize aedric spear ability on backbar, where Spear Shards could be replaced by more offensive skills for example of frost staff. But this bring problem that tankiness in this case severe a lot.
Compare those passives:
DK passive:

New sorc passive:

As you can see none of passives that affect blocking are limited to skillbar.
Most commonly passive is dk Iron Skin. IS can block 10% of range and 10% of melee, while tempalr passive can block only melee but 5% more. But main problem is that unlike other passives it dependant to skillbar. So, to help with tanking this passive must get in line with same passives of other classes - to no longer require aedric skill to be slotted.

3. Burning Light to become unblockable/Solar Barrage:
As it was stated in mechanics description by ZoS in patch 3.3.5: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4853841/#Comment_4853841

Following this description Implosion is unblockable coz it come inside of enemy. For same reason Burning Light must get in line with this mechanic and passives of other classes(sorc) and become unblockable.
With such mechanic Burning Light will work as pressure against permablocking enemies and thus tempalrs that lost unblockable offensive hard stun CC to counter tanks can pressure opponent by draining his stamina(jabs channel) and damaging him by unblockable sources.
I heared Gilliam want this to be removed target cap in cost of reduce damage/increase cooldown. This is terrible idea because because it will be negative in both pve and pvp:
In PvE: dps of classes determined by single target damage. Such change will decrease single target damage even further while increase its aoe damage that has no meaning beside clearing trash. And tempalr already benefit in this cos his dps skills are AoE.
In PvP: it will be vey negative because Burning Light is way of templar to redeem its utterly low single target damage coz of his aoe skills. BL allow to pressure single opponent more effective and serve as burst option passive. Change not only will make tempalr damage output much weaker in small fights/bgs but also will make Spear Shards uncomparably OP AoE skill in zerg surfing.
aoe Damage output can be granted by buff of Solar Barrage with removed cast time: it will allow to use aoe dps skill that will also boost single target light attack damage, and get in line with light attacks changes. Same for pvp - templar will get mobile aoe skill that wont proc burning light but will buff single target damage of light attacks.

4. Nova buff:
As I listed in previous comments Nova got 9+% damage nerf after change of Enduring Rays.

And have some issue with snaring enemies inside even tho description no longer mention it.
6x3=18. In PvE or static PvP (unexisting tho), additional duration of major maim debuff is equal to be 18ultimate gains. 250-18=232ult. Having static ultimate that cost 232 ult and lost 9+% of its damage is hardly balanced.
Since morph was made for movement battles and while debuff can be cleanse anyway in pvp while in pve maim debuff will be preferable anyway coz it used by healers who role to decrease damage of boss. In compare to Shifting Standart that last twice longer, cost 25ult cheaper and have possibility to proc 2 synnergies during 1 ultimate, I suggest to reduce cost of Nova lower than 225ult. I will allow extend gap between Novas drops in trials that will ensure usability of Templar healers.

5. Eclipse loose CC immunity/Unstable Core fix:
It was said many times that this skill is not hard CC, it combination of soft and hard CCs. It cant disable enemy nor severe his mobility in any way. And thus rule of it apply CC immunity on expire simply cant work coz here should be applayable rule of roots - only actively counter of such cc should grant immunity to it for some period. For Eclipse it means as part of being soft cc - it should be countered by counter mechanic - CC Break; as part of it as being hard cc - counter should grant immunity to it that in case of hard CCs is 7sec.
It should stop grating CC immunity on cleanse - previously disorient from Luminous Shards were terrible cc coz it allowed enemy to get free cc immunity without any efforts. Now purging Eclipse grant cc immunity for bare efforts. In large-scale pvp there is always Purge spammers - use Eclipse there means chance that affectd enemy will be purged and have cc immunity. Or in templar battles - Cleanse is Templar defense mechanic that class use in battle anyway, in addition that it don't have reliable hard cc - such battle between templars become stalemate because none will waste stamina on break free coz cc immunity can be achieved by spamming main defensive skill. Even here with new duration of Eclipse to be 6sec - duration is lower than time of cc immunity in addition that with such cc mechanic it allow to recast skill to get higher uptime and affect enemy even during cc immunity timer.


Unstable Core and Enduring Rays - and old problem that dps of magnetic bomb is decreasing is still here:
magnetic bomb is exploding every 4 sec on default but after investing into Enduring Rays that prolong skills it become 5 and 6sec without increasing its damage:

It means that passive is decreasing dps of this skill for ~34%!
What should be done: return to one of previous mechnaics: 1. bound explosion to cc break; along with removing free cc immunity on expire it would force people to break free and proc explosion. 2.Remove magnetic explosion from being affected by debuff; however it would be weird that skill cant be affected by passive, isn't it? 3. I prefer - buff magnetic bomb damage for each additional second, as it was done with other dawn wrath dps skills.

6. Remembrance change/fix:
First of all it outdated visual: during early days it applied damage mitigation buff on allies that was represented as same visual as Sun Shield have, but after change to no longer affect allies it got new visual, symbolizing major protection buff but also kept old visual for some reason:

Old Visual of mitigation buff should be removed. 1. As you can see old visual make new one invisible.
2. It have same effect as Sun Shield making it harder to determine if skill was used along with ult.
3. 3. New visual have 8 sec duration while major protection effect it represent has actually 10sec duration, making it invisible for last 2 seconds:


Morph itself should stop disabling caster -
1. It have exact same animation of pray as Healing Ritual. HR was finally changed to be instant cast, and same must happen with ult healing too.
2. we have 2 morphs: 1 for group support, Practiced Incantation and other for self utility, but after nerf of Remembrance it started to lack both group utility and self utility: you gain less healing but at same time your still disabled by channel, making you unable to positioning and participate in battle.
3. Such change would buff tankiness of both templar specs and get rid of dependance on weapon trait on bar where ult is slotted. As being healing ult that independent to weapon choices and traits, allowing diversity in builds and weapon traits.
Warden does have strong burst class heals like Fungal Growth and Budding Seeds and such, it validation of having Grove that not disable is not working, while NBs now have Soul Siphon that allow to keep group alive in far-far greater radius and apply on them major vitality buff with synergy, and its all while participating in fight.

7. Channeled/Restoring Focus:
In compare of it current mechanic - imagine that our Purifying Light aoe heal was not attached to target but was ground heal that proc where PL exploded. How terribly and it would be. Same goes for Rune Focus.
After update Bolstering Darkness and Bound armor got updated, one with no longer be limited by ground, other to stop be double bar toggle. And don't forget Siphoning Strikes simplify - it was updated to completely repay skill cost, along with weaving making it clear resource winning ability.
Rune Focus also must get in line with changes of other classes and like Bolst. Darkness to be ground based 4m aoe debuff but have its buffs attached to caster for duration of skill(18sec).
It will make it utility in line with betty netch:
Betty can purge, cost zero resources, restoreresources, fully portable, proc 3 passives, grant offensive buff, proc companion dependant sets like Necropotence, and immune to damage/interrupts.
While Focus will be - have cost, fully portable, restore resources, cant proc sets, proc 2 major defensive buffs, snare enemies inside (that wont be used coz Cleansing Ritual anyway), vulnerable to Negate, proc at best 1 passive.

In relative of Rune Focus - mana restore morph was never changed, but Restoring Focus was changed several times, so I think it reasonable to talk about this skill at what it was from beginning unchanged - resource restore skill and thus we can compare it with other classes:
Channeled Focus cant restore both resources, as was requested, for same reason as why Siphon Strikes were changed to heal and restore 1 resource - resource management. Also it cant restore max resources coz diversity of morphs:
Through other classes - Siphon Strikes morphs restore either mana or stamina, Netch morphs restore either mana or stamina. Those morphs allow diversity in choosing which of morphs you wana use and nowdays both resources are valuable for any spec, be it mana spec that chose to restore stamina by Siphon. Strikes, or stamwarden chose mana netch for easier mana dump.
So, to get in line with other classes changes Restoring Focus should become stamina restore morph.
With such change morphs functionality would be equal to netch, which grant small bonus to mana morph to be on par:
Channeled Focus - restore mana, reduced cost(as currently).
Restoring Focus - restore stamina.

Such Restoring Focus would help tanks to get stamina returns, and while stamplar has lower burst heal than magplar, but having stamina return allow to change builds to more offense or defense without hurting offense capability coz of additional sustain. It is superior to minor buffs that are subjects of calculation diminishing returns. More importantly for tank the possibility to hold block longer than uncapable to block but get tiny mitigation that wont save in majority of struggles.

8. Master Ritualist:
Passive that shows what wrong with class...
It is passive that out Templar wont utilize during leveling, or doing overland content, and rarely will be used during pvp or dungeons run. For majority of Templars it like playing class with 1 less passive. It screams to everyone "this class is resbot" - something I really hate, when utility of class is being dump for other classes and groups. Implication of it means - you already failed.
We already have CP passiv and set that boost resurrect, which caused passive to be nerfed if this gear used. If someone decided to be dedicated resbot - everyone can do it fine.
That's why we need change this passive to empower templar himself, to allow him be better at what he is doing, instead of being just a mark of his failure.
And there is a lot of possibilities that this passive can have. For example remove 2ult gains by Healing Ritual from Light Weaver and grant it to Master Ritualist to allow to gain 2ult upon activating it Restoring Light healing abilities or proc proc minor heroism buff for 3sec. Or make our class channels to activate some kind of short effect and allow to benefit from class theme of channels, for example same minor heroism buff for 3sec
It wouldn't ally to stack such effects like current Light Weaver that will allow to restore 14ult per cast to group with low hp every seconds without cooldown in execute mode in trials. <-- It sounds a bit OP.
And It would serve all the roles than: 100% viability for caster and much higher group utility that would prevent group deaths and need of res.

@ZOS_Wrobel
P.S.: Make Dark Flare debuff undodgeable. You simply cant dodge aoe effects

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Already probably a dozen times this PTS cycle I've sat down to write plea threads for various specific Templar issues like costs, terrible passives, wonky mechanics, and other inconsistencies, but honestly I just feel defeated before I finish my first sentence. This class could be great but I just don't feel like anyone at ZOS is interested. Every pre-PTS hype gets my hopes sky-high, just for them to be smacked to the floor when PTS hits.

I don't know why I even write this comment other than I know you guys are always here to commiserate with.

I think there's a secret for feedback pts, pay attention to the theme of the changes and offer our feedback.

This patch it looks like they are looking into healing/tanking and underused morphs. I know we have some bug fixes that need to happen and other fixes but if we want them to look at the feedback, then that's what I'd concentrate on.

I'm sure you're right to a degree, but they seem to have spent a ton of time re-tooling some other classes but Templar basically just got a cast time removed for the most uninteresting heal in the game (which is only good for zergballs anyway and ignores the solo Templar, FFS man).

Even Dk got a mammoth QoL boost with the snare purge. Why can't Templar get some o dat sweet dev lovin'?

I guess the bright side is we don't have it as bad as magWardens this patch...

As the defacto healer, they didn't buff us because they needed us to remain the bar for other classes to hit.

The sad part is, DD and tank roles didn't get the adjustments needed to make Templar reach the bar other classes bring to the table in those areas.

Also crit DMG modifiers impact healing ALOT. Having those no longer factor in without compensation means healers have taken more of a Nerf than ZoS realizes.

Thus I think small adjustments can be made to healing base stats while tank/DD skills need an overhaul this pts cycle.

DeadlyRecluse

peacenote wrote: »

Really frustrated with the BoL change. Healing in PvE has been a lot less fun since the last few major changes to Templar. I am still annoyed that BoL is now a cone.

You know, I kind of like BoL being conal. It gives a little bit of a "skillshot" feel to it rather than just watching healthbars in groupframes...

...what I dislike is being stripped down to (at this point) essentially a single heal. Give it all the heals back, make them strictly conal, and I'd be so excited. At this point, I would honestly consider trading BoL for warden Spores--which is also conal, heals more people, and provides a buff.

Cinbri

And forgot to add to post above that current mechanics of skills ptevent us from effectively synnergize with psijic skilline:
Accelerate -long awaited magicka mobility buff for nonvampires. But this mobility wont work with our protective buffs -rune focus which is ground-based and punish movement.
Meditate - resorce restore skill that templar really need but again it wont be possible to synnergize it. While it will be possible to use resto ult/magma armor/soul siphon or even negate+meditate, it wont be possible to use remembrance+meditate.

DeadlyRecluse

Cinbri wrote: »

8. Master Ritualist:
Passive that shows what wrong with class...
It is passive that out Templar wont utilize during leveling, or doing overland content, and rarely will be used during pvp or dungeons run. For majority of Templars it like playing class with 1 less passive. It screams to everyone "this class is resbot" - something I really hate, when utility of class is being dump for other classes and groups. Implication of it means - you already failed.
We already have CP passiv and set that boost resurrect, which caused passive to be nerfed if this gear used. If someone decided to be dedicated resbot - everyone can do it fine.

This passive was solid back when rez speed buffs were additive rather than multiplicative. Now it's almost completely worthless, as the overall buff to rez speed is effectively lower than the tooltip on players with AvA skill line maxed out.

anadandy

Minno wrote: »

As the defacto healer, they didn't buff us because they needed us to remain the bar for other classes to hit.

The sad part is, DD and tank roles didn't get the adjustments needed to make Templar reach the bar other classes bring to the table in those areas.

This is what I find most frustrating. The reasoning behind so many of hits Templars take is to "bring them in line' with other classes - but those changes never seem to be additive.

TequilaFire

casparian wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

As usual no response from devs on Templars.

We are three days into the PTS cycle. Give them a minute.

Templar issues are far from new.
We are 4 years into the game.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

And forgot to add to post above that current mechanics of skills ptevent us from effectively synnergize with psijic skilline:
Accelerate -long awaited magicka mobility buff for nonvampires. But this mobility wont work with our protective buffs -rune focus which is ground-based and punish movement.
Meditate - resorce restore skill that templar really need but again it wont be possible to synnergize it. While it will be possible to use resto ult/magma armor/soul siphon or even negate+meditate, it wont be possible to use remembrance+meditate.

I agree with this. Also, with changes to Sprint being the major mobilty tool, it's hard to see any benefit from major expedition unless you are sprinting. So that means jabs, block, stationary circles, etc are all obsolete with the new mobility speed buff spell. It needs to be 6-9 seconds base duration.

Meditate has more synergy, assuming the heal is boosted using restoring rune. 16% extra healing receive+done from our passive/rune will make that morph more attractive; also assuming you setup defensive circles to punish enemies that don't cc attempt.

But yes I agree, those two spells, were designed for PVE minor force gain and sorcs/nbs who already benefit from 4 years of mobility outside sprint.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

What I believe ZoS must do is fix existing bugs and make class skills in line with other classes swithes.

1. Bugs, that plaguing Templar class, must be fixed. I will quote my post from Dragonbones dlc:

Cinbri wrote: »

Templar Life Matters

1. Radial Sweep hitbox bugged - Radial Sweep and both of its morph can bug and miss target on initial hit, no matter how close it stands to caster, tried ult without animation cancelling and it still bugged, so it not related to animation cancelling like snb ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLc3iIJL3EY

3. Explosive Charge missing cloacked targets - if enemy is cloacked it won't be revealed by AoE nor will receive AoE damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y

4. Spear Shards initial hit counts as dot - while it is obvious that initial AoE hit is direct damage attack like Impulse or wardens ice shards, it counting as DoT and buffed by dot cp. As result it can't proc things that proc on direct attacks.

5. Solar Barrage - while being dot itself it not boosting by dot cp but boosting by direct damage cp. However can't proc things that proc on direct damage like Nerien/Bloodthorn/Varen sets, but proc dot things like Valkyn.

6. Backlash - while being direct attack it's initial hit can't proc things that proc on direct attacks, like Nerien set or Bloodthorn set.

7. Eclipse/Unstable Core - while every damage return proc counted as direct attack, it can't proc Bloodthorn set 5pc bonus, while can proc other sets like Nerien.

Magnetic bomb of Unstable Core - while counted as direct aoe explosion for CP it cant proc sets that proc on direct attacks like Nerien and Bloodthorn, also set like Varen Legacy doesn't count it as direct aoe attack and not buff it.

Still granting CC Immunity on cleansing it. It was considered as bug in Morrowind update but still staying after overhaul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On85vQPv9OE

Grant CC Immunity on expire is inconsistent and allow it apply on CC immune enemies, that bring to weird situation when enemy has both CC effect and CC Immunity on him:


8. Rushed Ceremony animation stutter - same like old Barrage had - upon cast sometimes your char rooted for miliseconds during casting animation.

By using line of horizon you can see that it stop moving, it means that it not just some visual illusion of cast. Very annoying when it occure while kiting.

9. Rite of Passage - healing ignore any LoS.

10. Healing Ritual - healing ignore LoS.

11. Rune Focus - despite old change to mechanic of no longer affect allies inside but caster, it still counting as support buff of ally and thus casting it removing buffs like Rapid Maneuver, even if there is no ally nor enemy, that can be affected by snare, are nearby.


12. Radiant Aura - doesn't apply its debuff on stealthed or cloacked enemy. Bugged this way back when it changed to stop revealing invisible targets.


13. Repentance - still work to absorb hp and stamina on Shadowrend set.


14. Javelin double CC - doesn't apply CC immunity upon CCing enemy, allowing to use knockback several times upon fast cast.

As you can see 1st Javelin didn't grant cc immunity for its duration of CC, grant it only on expire, almost same problem as Eclipse has. LUI addon also shows 2 Stun effects used.

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Spear Shards - cosmetic problems:
Initial skill and Luminous Shards missing its red telegraph despite any version of skill has DoT in it:


Blazing Spear does have it but despite fix to AoE radius of damage red telegraph wasn't update and thus show wrong radius, making people wonder why they getting hit by it:

As you can see something in visual setting also makes Spear invisible.

2. Solar Barrage - still same cosmetic bug that make visual apply on caster upon weaving light attack right after cast:


3. Burning Light - it's proc is blockable. While Implosion is unblockable. It is proc only on Shards aoe or channel of Strikes in addition to several skills with low procrate and unable to proc on dots/bleeds weapon damage, in addition that templar damage is pressure and it lack of tools against tanks+ all classes will get blocking buff next update - we could get unblockable BL too.

4. Radiant Destruction - same as once Soul Assault - it should loose its duration of empty channel in the beginning of skill. This empty duration lead to decreased reliability of execute coz: delayed damage is harder to use against enemy in pvp when every second allow enemy to get out of execute range, making execute unviable. In case of RD that leading to even worse problems:
1. Delayed cast allow enemy simply cancel your execute by interrupt you and prevent from using it all along:

^^Countered before harm even done. Purging result in same result
2. Another example is that execute is not automatically cancelling empty channel and such in group play when you start cast it on enemy who was killed meanwhile by teammates - you stuck in channeling full beam on corpse and forced manually cancel it:

^^Looks nice but feels terrible.
Unlike sorc execute you cant blockcast it nor animation cancel, and this problem to channel damage not same second but after empty channel duration making you vulnerable to counter-attacks and RD overall "slower".

5. Not pure Templar but still related - Pirate Skeleton set - bugged for quite a long and allow its 2pc Minor Defile to be purgable:
After some time its debuff was placed in category of buffs to prevent it being purged by skills, yet this treatment stopped working in some of the patches and it cleansable once again. Bug allowing to bypass set mechanic to grant very strong bonus and thus should be finally fixed.

Image hosting deleted most of images for some reason. But anyway as you can see majority of bugs remained. IDK about Jabs scaling.

2. Spear Wall passive should not require aedric skill to be on bar:
First of all, it would help promote frost magicka tanking, when tank wont have required to waste bar on aedric skill, secondly it will help in PvP for mitigation as many builds not utilize aedric spear ability on backbar, where Spear Shards could be replaced by more offensive skills for example of frost staff. But this bring problem that tankiness in this case severe a lot.
Compare those passives:
DK passive:

New sorc passive:

As you can see none of passives that affect blocking are limited to skillbar.
Most commonly passive is dk Iron Skin. IS can block 10% of range and 10% of melee, while tempalr passive can block only melee but 5% more. But main problem is that unlike other passives it dependant to skillbar. So, to help with tanking this passive must get in line with same passives of other classes - to no longer require aedric skill to be slotted.

3. Burning Light to become unblockable/Solar Barrage:
As it was stated in mechanics description by ZoS in patch 3.3.5: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4853841/#Comment_4853841

Following this description Implosion is unblockable coz it come inside of enemy. For same reason Burning Light must get in line with this mechanic and passives of other classes(sorc) and become unblockable.
With such mechanic Burning Light will work as pressure against permablocking enemies and thus tempalrs that lost unblockable offensive hard stun CC to counter tanks can pressure opponent by draining his stamina(jabs channel) and damaging him by unblockable sources.
I heared Gilliam want this to be removed target cap in cost of reduce damage/increase cooldown. This is terrible idea because because it will be negative in both pve and pvp:
In PvE: dps of classes determined by single target damage. Such change will decrease single target damage even further while increase its aoe damage that has no meaning beside clearing trash. And tempalr already benefit in this cos his dps skills are AoE.
In PvP: it will be vey negative because Burning Light is way of templar to redeem its utterly low single target damage coz of his aoe skills. BL allow to pressure single opponent more effective and serve as burst option passive. Change not only will make tempalr damage output much weaker in small fights/bgs but also will make Spear Shards uncomparably OP AoE skill in zerg surfing.
aoe Damage output can be granted by buff of Solar Barrage with removed cast time: it will allow to use aoe dps skill that will also boost single target light attack damage, and get in line with light attacks changes. Same for pvp - templar will get mobile aoe skill that wont proc burning light but will buff single target damage of light attacks.

4. Nova buff:
As I listed in previous comments Nova got 9+% damage nerf after change of Enduring Rays.

And have some issue with snaring enemies inside even tho description no longer mention it.
6x3=18. In PvE or static PvP (unexisting tho), additional duration of major maim debuff is equal to be 18ultimate gains. 250-18=232ult. Having static ultimate that cost 232 ult and lost 9+% of its damage is hardly balanced.
Since morph was made for movement battles and while debuff can be cleanse anyway in pvp while in pve maim debuff will be preferable anyway coz it used by healers who role to decrease damage of boss. In compare to Shifting Standart that last twice longer, cost 25ult cheaper and have possibility to proc 2 synnergies during 1 ultimate, I suggest to reduce cost of Nova lower than 225ult. I will allow extend gap between Novas drops in trials that will ensure usability of Templar healers.

5. Eclipse loose CC immunity/Unstable Core fix:
It was said many times that this skill is not hard CC, it combination of soft and hard CCs. It cant disable enemy nor severe his mobility in any way. And thus rule of it apply CC immunity on expire simply cant work coz here should be applayable rule of roots - only actively counter of such cc should grant immunity to it for some period. For Eclipse it means as part of being soft cc - it should be countered by counter mechanic - CC Break; as part of it as being hard cc - counter should grant immunity to it that in case of hard CCs is 7sec.
It should stop grating CC immunity on cleanse - previously disorient from Luminous Shards were terrible cc coz it allowed enemy to get free cc immunity without any efforts. Now purging Eclipse grant cc immunity for bare efforts. In large-scale pvp there is always Purge spammers - use Eclipse there means chance that affectd enemy will be purged and have cc immunity. Or in templar battles - Cleanse is Templar defense mechanic that class use in battle anyway, in addition that it don't have reliable hard cc - such battle between templars become stalemate because none will waste stamina on break free coz cc immunity can be achieved by spamming main defensive skill. Even here with new duration of Eclipse to be 6sec - duration is lower than time of cc immunity in addition that with such cc mechanic it allow to recast skill to get higher uptime and affect enemy even during cc immunity timer.


Unstable Core and Enduring Rays - and old problem that dps of magnetic bomb is decreasing is still here:
magnetic bomb is exploding every 4 sec on default but after investing into Enduring Rays that prolong skills it become 5 and 6sec without increasing its damage:

It means that passive is decreasing dps of this skill for ~34%!
What should be done: return to one of previous mechnaics: 1. bound explosion to cc break; along with removing free cc immunity on expire it would force people to break free and proc explosion. 2.Remove magnetic explosion from being affected by debuff; however it would be weird that skill cant be affected by passive, isn't it? 3. I prefer - buff magnetic bomb damage for each additional second, as it was done with other dawn wrath dps skills.

6. Remembrance change/fix:
First of all it outdated visual: during early days it applied damage mitigation buff on allies that was represented as same visual as Sun Shield have, but after change to no longer affect allies it got new visual, symbolizing major protection buff but also kept old visual for some reason:

Old Visual of mitigation buff should be removed. 1. As you can see old visual make new one invisible.
2. It have same effect as Sun Shield making it harder to determine if skill was used along with ult.
3. 3. New visual have 8 sec duration while major protection effect it represent has actually 10sec duration, making it invisible for last 2 seconds:


Morph itself should stop disabling caster -
1. It have exact same animation of pray as Healing Ritual. HR was finally changed to be instant cast, and same must happen with ult healing too.
2. we have 2 morphs: 1 for group support, Practiced Incantation and other for self utility, but after nerf of Remembrance it started to lack both group utility and self utility: you gain less healing but at same time your still disabled by channel, making you unable to positioning and participate in battle.
3. Such change would buff tankiness of both templar specs and get rid of dependance on weapon trait on bar where ult is slotted. As being healing ult that independent to weapon choices and traits, allowing diversity in builds and weapon traits.
Warden does have strong burst class heals like Fungal Growth and Budding Seeds and such, it validation of having Grove that not disable is not working, while NBs now have Soul Siphon that allow to keep group alive in far-far greater radius and apply on them major vitality buff with synergy, and its all while participating in fight.

7. Channeled/Restoring Focus:
In compare of it current mechanic - imagine that our Purifying Light aoe heal was not attached to target but was ground heal that proc where PL exploded. How terribly and it would be. Same goes for Rune Focus.
After update Bolstering Darkness and Bound armor got updated, one with no longer be limited by ground, other to stop be double bar toggle. And don't forget Siphoning Strikes simplify - it was updated to completely repay skill cost, along with weaving making it clear resource winning ability.
Rune Focus also must get in line with changes of other classes and like Bolst. Darkness to be ground based 4m aoe debuff but have its buffs attached to caster for duration of skill(18sec).
It will make it utility in line with betty netch:
Betty can purge, cost zero resources, restoreresources, fully portable, proc 3 passives, grant offensive buff, proc companion dependant sets like Necropotence, and immune to damage/interrupts.
While Focus will be - have cost, fully portable, restore resources, cant proc sets, proc 2 major defensive buffs, snare enemies inside (that wont be used coz Cleansing Ritual anyway), vulnerable to Negate, proc at best 1 passive.

In relative of Rune Focus - mana restore morph was never changed, but Restoring Focus was changed several times, so I think it reasonable to talk about this skill at what it was from beginning unchanged - resource restore skill and thus we can compare it with other classes:
Channeled Focus cant restore both resources, as was requested, for same reason as why Siphon Strikes were changed to heal and restore 1 resource - resource management. Also it cant restore max resources coz diversity of morphs:
Through other classes - Siphon Strikes morphs restore either mana or stamina, Netch morphs restore either mana or stamina. Those morphs allow diversity in choosing which of morphs you wana use and nowdays both resources are valuable for any spec, be it mana spec that chose to restore stamina by Siphon. Strikes, or stamwarden chose mana netch for easier mana dump.
So, to get in line with other classes changes Restoring Focus should become stamina restore morph.
With such change morphs functionality would be equal to netch, which grant small bonus to mana morph to be on par:
Channeled Focus - restore mana, reduced cost(as currently).
Restoring Focus - restore stamina.

Such Restoring Focus would help tanks to get stamina returns, and while stamplar has lower burst heal than magplar, but having stamina return allow to change builds to more offense or defense without hurting offense capability coz of additional sustain. It is superior to minor buffs that are subjects of calculation diminishing returns. More importantly for tank the possibility to hold block longer than uncapable to block but get tiny mitigation that wont save in majority of struggles.

8. Master Ritualist:
Passive that shows what wrong with class...
It is passive that out Templar wont utilize during leveling, or doing overland content, and rarely will be used during pvp or dungeons run. For majority of Templars it like playing class with 1 less passive. It screams to everyone "this class is resbot" - something I really hate, when utility of class is being dump for other classes and groups. Implication of it means - you already failed.
We already have CP passiv and set that boost resurrect, which caused passive to be nerfed if this gear used. If someone decided to be dedicated resbot - everyone can do it fine.
That's why we need change this passive to empower templar himself, to allow him be better at what he is doing, instead of being just a mark of his failure.
And there is a lot of possibilities that this passive can have. For example remove 2ult gains by Healing Ritual from Light Weaver and grant it to Master Ritualist to allow to gain 2ult upon activating it Restoring Light healing abilities or proc proc minor heroism buff for 3sec. Or make our class channels to activate some kind of short effect and allow to benefit from class theme of channels, for example same minor heroism buff for 3sec
It wouldn't ally to stack such effects like current Light Weaver that will allow to restore 14ult per cast to group with low hp every seconds without cooldown in execute mode in trials. <-- It sounds a bit OP.
And It would serve all the roles than: 100% viability for caster and much higher group utility that would prevent group deaths and need of res.

@ZOS_Wrobel
P.S.: Make Dark Flare debuff undodgeable. You simply cant dodge aoe effects

Sorry @Cinbri I missed this post!

First, Joy and I will be testing sweeps in an hour or two today to confirm your test (the 100th time you tested sweeps bug lol)

Second, I agree with all these changes.

Third, Eclipse is weird because I actually do like the cc immunity mechanic (promotes counter play where previously wasnt), but I agree it doesn't do enough to punish the enemy to justify having the cc immunity. That is why I suggest root be given; it can be an AOE explosive root which combined with your suggestion to have the explosion break on cc break, will result in heavy punishment on the enemy player's choice. It will also grant tanks an AOE root with unique flavor; ranged blast that punishes all targets. It might grant 2 immunity effects (root immunity if they dodge roll and cc imunity if broke free/effect ends) but it will force the enemy to spend 2 times more stamina and thus be more effective in burning down the resources of our enemy. Other players said it would be too powerful as well, but I think the counterplay mechanics help balance the ability in this change. But as long as my damage remains unblocked/undodgable, I will accept any change to eclipse that works for all other templars lol.

4th, I agree the dmg for UC needs to be updated with enduring rays passive. There are times i used the 6 second version and was punished when the enemy cc broke the spell but was able to defend against the burst (running away, buffing up heals in anticipation of the burst dmg, etc.) Having the extra dmg boosted similar to reflective light when you take this passive, will help offset those short comings of the spell's mechanic.

technohic

@Minno @Joy_Division Did you guys test the damage between live and PTS yet? I got my PC up and patched and will be in game for a bit if either of you need a target dummy. Hit me up @technohic

Minno

technohic wrote: »

@Minno @Joy_Division Did you guys test the damage between live and PTS yet? I got my PC up and patched and will be in game for a bit if either of you need a target dummy. Hit me up @technohic

Not yet, we will be testing around lunchtime (adult free-time problems lol)

technohic

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

@Minno @Joy_Division Did you guys test the damage between live and PTS yet? I got my PC up and patched and will be in game for a bit if either of you need a target dummy. Hit me up @technohic

Not yet, we will be testing around lunchtime (adult free-time problems lol)

LOL Yeah, I would have been busy but took today off thinking I was going to have to replace power supply, mobo, and CPU and figured Windows would then give me some problems; but it turned out to just be the power supply. Now I have free time aside from a needed trip to UPS to send some stuff back.


At any rate; if you guys have it covered, Im going to go get chores done.

Drdeath20

Light weaver

Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% HealthChanneling Rite of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Armor.

This is a pain point that needs to get looked at. We already have enduring rays as a passive that takes a sub par skill and makes it average. Do we really need another passive to boost other sub par skills? Why cant the base skill already have this?

Yes other classes have passives that boosts their skills but templars have 1 in every tree. Furthermore other classes have passives for either max resources (while slotting abilities) or passives for recovery or both in some casses. Those passives make it easier to be creative with other sets/builds.

What if enduring rays was just apart of the base skill and instead we got a passive that increased max magicka by 2% for each dawns wrath ability slotted.

What if light weaver passively increased magicka/stamina/health recovery by 10%?

If you think thats OP i suggest you look at other classes passives.

Drdeath20

Solariken wrote: »

Already probably a dozen times this PTS cycle I've sat down to write plea threads for various specific Templar issues like costs, terrible passives, wonky mechanics, and other inconsistencies, but honestly I just feel defeated before I finish my first sentence. This class could be great but I just don't feel like anyone at ZOS is interested. Every pre-PTS hype gets my hopes sky-high, just for them to be smacked to the floor when PTS hits.

I don't know why I even write this comment other than I know you guys are always here to commiserate with.

This

Mihael

Make the Templar house into a mobile home please

Brutusmax1mus

Mihael wrote: »

Make the Templar house into a mobile home please

Shoot, I'd take a back pack and a tent at this point.

DragonRazgriz

I agree the classes should be balanced to each other, but it seems it's been forgotten that doesn't mean healing = healing. It should mean main ability = main ability. A healer should heal as well as a tank damages as well as an assassin sneaks. I've tried a couple Templars including using mine from the main game, who up until this point was perfectly capable of holding her own and felt as evenly matched against the game as my Dragonknight, and they are all useless. What's the point of a healer class that can't keep itself alive?

Elsterchen

Narvuntien wrote: »

I was really hoping for some tankplar buffs this patch but there were barely any relevant changes for non-healers. I am trying to grind Psijic Order skill line to test out some of those skills.

I think overall I'd expect that magplars will be low dps high utility because its super easy to slap on a heal and/or purge when you need it. As such magplars will always have lower dps than other classes. (although I'd like it to be close)

Stamplars though, I'd expect a lot of self healing but there is no reason their dps should be so far behind the others. Perhaps its that compared to the other classes they are less likely to get themselves killed. I think they really should be getting much better resource sustain than other classes.

So I am in favor of Joaaocaampos suggestions

Channeled Focus (Rune Focus morph)

Create a rune of celestial protection, which defends you while you stand within it and for up to [x] seconds after leaving it.
The rune grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by [x]. You also recover Magicka and Stamina every [x] seconds.

Spear Wall (Aedric Spear Passive)

Increases the amount of damage you can block against melee attacks by [x%].

Balanced Warrior (Aedric Spear Passive)

Increases Weapon Damage and Stamina Recovery by [x%], and Spell Resistance by [x].

Good for both Stamplars and Tankplars. Also seriously consider undoing the repentance nerf or perhaps have some why to make it more of a stamplar ability instead of a all templars ability.

Templar healers are good, great even, but we all hate being pidgeonholed like that.

Sounds good on paper but even the current version of rune focus is only semi-usuable for stamplars -> 8 s recast doesn't sound much to sustain a fight, but when that little magica you have is used up, you are dead.

If my stamplar could run away from a fight that would be ok, but templars are slow and the new available movement ability in SI is payed with magica -> BOTH MORPHS! So my stamplar will pay roughly double the price in stam for rapid maneuver when he needs to reposition ... and the new change is that all those able to pay in mag will follow even faster, now.

if my stamplar could CC or stun there was a chance that the little window of time is enough to buff up, but hey the freely available stun in SI is payed with magica -> BOTH MORPHS! So my stamplar will now have even more of the choice to either get killed during the first 10s (dropping defence skill) and have a slim chance to build up pressure / live through long tough fights because of smart use in small breaks, or just forget about ever beeing able to play with the big boys. ... and while this was anyways a rather loosing game played it was at least fun as long as it lasted. With the new changes my stamplar will most probably get looked for down 3 s on sight unless he spends an awefull amount of stam for rapid maneuver, which somehow makes me already thinking about scratching PVP all together. I heard fishing was the next big thing, right?

Well at least I can purge, ... sometimes, when I am safe to let rune focus down ... which is ... like never, in PVP combat.

I am really sorry for the poor quality of my feedback, but I have no idea how the devs imagine stamplars to be played, or how the changes to combat mechanics or the new skillline is improving this playstile. So I just describe my experience and thoughts here. I see I might probably will drop jabs for the new DD skill, that is easier to handle on moving targets (LAs usually don't miss) and doesn't leave me channeling while getting hard stunned... but somehow the prospect of dropping another class skill isn't really something to yay me up. It will mean I am down to PoTL as the only fixed class skill in my 2-bar rota.
Added up occasionally with Sweep Ulti for jolly PVE, rune OR purge in PVP.

:'(

Minno

technohic wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

@Minno @Joy_Division Did you guys test the damage between live and PTS yet? I got my PC up and patched and will be in game for a bit if either of you need a target dummy. Hit me up @technohic

Not yet, we will be testing around lunchtime (adult free-time problems lol)

LOL Yeah, I would have been busy but took today off thinking I was going to have to replace power supply, mobo, and CPU and figured Windows would then give me some problems; but it turned out to just be the power supply. Now I have free time aside from a needed trip to UPS to send some stuff back.


At any rate; if you guys have it covered, Im going to go get chores done.

No worries!

I stood there and Joy compiled the numbers. Ill leave Joy to describe our findings.

Cinbri

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Joy_Division

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Yeah, I'll do the exact number crunching this weekend, but my Sweeps numbers were not at all encouraging. I was not in my full PvP spec, however I was CRITTING for 973 damage and back in the day that was less than my regular hits in Cyrodiil.

Cinbri

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Yeah, I'll do the exact number crunching this weekend, but my Sweeps numbers were not at all encouraging. I was not in my full PvP spec, however I was CRITTING for 973 damage and back in the day that was less than my regular hits in Cyrodiil.

Well, if you deal same damage - means cp scaling wasnt fixed.

technohic

Did you guys check gear? I was making an assumption that I hadnt been able to log into my characters since Saturday so my PTS characters would be set up exactly as they are on live, but it looks like the character copy was actually done last week or so.

EDIT: Longer than that. Has me down 33 CP from live.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

Make the Templar house into a mobile home please

Shoot, I'd take a back pack and a tent at this point.

Anything's better than our cardboard box we're living in right now.

AriBoh

Cinbri wrote: »

What I believe ZoS must do is fix existing bugs and make class skills in line with other classes swithes.

1. Bugs, that plaguing Templar class, must be fixed. I will quote my post from Dragonbones dlc:

Cinbri wrote: »

Templar Life Matters

1. Radial Sweep hitbox bugged - Radial Sweep and both of its morph can bug and miss target on initial hit, no matter how close it stands to caster, tried ult without animation cancelling and it still bugged, so it not related to animation cancelling like snb ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLc3iIJL3EY

3. Explosive Charge missing cloacked targets - if enemy is cloacked it won't be revealed by AoE nor will receive AoE damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y

4. Spear Shards initial hit counts as dot - while it is obvious that initial AoE hit is direct damage attack like Impulse or wardens ice shards, it counting as DoT and buffed by dot cp. As result it can't proc things that proc on direct attacks.

5. Solar Barrage - while being dot itself it not boosting by dot cp but boosting by direct damage cp. However can't proc things that proc on direct damage like Nerien/Bloodthorn/Varen sets, but proc dot things like Valkyn.

6. Backlash - while being direct attack it's initial hit can't proc things that proc on direct attacks, like Nerien set or Bloodthorn set.

7. Eclipse/Unstable Core - while every damage return proc counted as direct attack, it can't proc Bloodthorn set 5pc bonus, while can proc other sets like Nerien.

Magnetic bomb of Unstable Core - while counted as direct aoe explosion for CP it cant proc sets that proc on direct attacks like Nerien and Bloodthorn, also set like Varen Legacy doesn't count it as direct aoe attack and not buff it.

Still granting CC Immunity on cleansing it. It was considered as bug in Morrowind update but still staying after overhaul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On85vQPv9OE

Grant CC Immunity on expire is inconsistent and allow it apply on CC immune enemies, that bring to weird situation when enemy has both CC effect and CC Immunity on him:


8. Rushed Ceremony animation stutter - same like old Barrage had - upon cast sometimes your char rooted for miliseconds during casting animation.

By using line of horizon you can see that it stop moving, it means that it not just some visual illusion of cast. Very annoying when it occure while kiting.

9. Rite of Passage - healing ignore any LoS.

10. Healing Ritual - healing ignore LoS.

11. Rune Focus - despite old change to mechanic of no longer affect allies inside but caster, it still counting as support buff of ally and thus casting it removing buffs like Rapid Maneuver, even if there is no ally nor enemy, that can be affected by snare, are nearby.


12. Radiant Aura - doesn't apply its debuff on stealthed or cloacked enemy. Bugged this way back when it changed to stop revealing invisible targets.


13. Repentance - still work to absorb hp and stamina on Shadowrend set.


14. Javelin double CC - doesn't apply CC immunity upon CCing enemy, allowing to use knockback several times upon fast cast.

As you can see 1st Javelin didn't grant cc immunity for its duration of CC, grant it only on expire, almost same problem as Eclipse has. LUI addon also shows 2 Stun effects used.

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Spear Shards - cosmetic problems:
Initial skill and Luminous Shards missing its red telegraph despite any version of skill has DoT in it:


Blazing Spear does have it but despite fix to AoE radius of damage red telegraph wasn't update and thus show wrong radius, making people wonder why they getting hit by it:

As you can see something in visual setting also makes Spear invisible.

2. Solar Barrage - still same cosmetic bug that make visual apply on caster upon weaving light attack right after cast:


3. Burning Light - it's proc is blockable. While Implosion is unblockable. It is proc only on Shards aoe or channel of Strikes in addition to several skills with low procrate and unable to proc on dots/bleeds weapon damage, in addition that templar damage is pressure and it lack of tools against tanks+ all classes will get blocking buff next update - we could get unblockable BL too.

4. Radiant Destruction - same as once Soul Assault - it should loose its duration of empty channel in the beginning of skill. This empty duration lead to decreased reliability of execute coz: delayed damage is harder to use against enemy in pvp when every second allow enemy to get out of execute range, making execute unviable. In case of RD that leading to even worse problems:
1. Delayed cast allow enemy simply cancel your execute by interrupt you and prevent from using it all along:

^^Countered before harm even done. Purging result in same result
2. Another example is that execute is not automatically cancelling empty channel and such in group play when you start cast it on enemy who was killed meanwhile by teammates - you stuck in channeling full beam on corpse and forced manually cancel it:

^^Looks nice but feels terrible.
Unlike sorc execute you cant blockcast it nor animation cancel, and this problem to channel damage not same second but after empty channel duration making you vulnerable to counter-attacks and RD overall "slower".

5. Not pure Templar but still related - Pirate Skeleton set - bugged for quite a long and allow its 2pc Minor Defile to be purgable:
After some time its debuff was placed in category of buffs to prevent it being purged by skills, yet this treatment stopped working in some of the patches and it cleansable once again. Bug allowing to bypass set mechanic to grant very strong bonus and thus should be finally fixed.

Image hosting deleted most of images for some reason. But anyway as you can see majority of bugs remained. IDK about Jabs scaling.

2. Spear Wall passive should not require aedric skill to be on bar:
First of all, it would help promote frost magicka tanking, when tank wont have required to waste bar on aedric skill, secondly it will help in PvP for mitigation as many builds not utilize aedric spear ability on backbar, where Spear Shards could be replaced by more offensive skills for example of frost staff. But this bring problem that tankiness in this case severe a lot.
Compare those passives:
DK passive:

New sorc passive:

As you can see none of passives that affect blocking are limited to skillbar.
Most commonly passive is dk Iron Skin. IS can block 10% of range and 10% of melee, while tempalr passive can block only melee but 5% more. But main problem is that unlike other passives it dependant to skillbar. So, to help with tanking this passive must get in line with same passives of other classes - to no longer require aedric skill to be slotted.

3. Burning Light to become unblockable/Solar Barrage:
As it was stated in mechanics description by ZoS in patch 3.3.5: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4853841/#Comment_4853841

Following this description Implosion is unblockable coz it come inside of enemy. For same reason Burning Light must get in line with this mechanic and passives of other classes(sorc) and become unblockable.
With such mechanic Burning Light will work as pressure against permablocking enemies and thus tempalrs that lost unblockable offensive hard stun CC to counter tanks can pressure opponent by draining his stamina(jabs channel) and damaging him by unblockable sources.
I heared Gilliam want this to be removed target cap in cost of reduce damage/increase cooldown. This is terrible idea because because it will be negative in both pve and pvp:
In PvE: dps of classes determined by single target damage. Such change will decrease single target damage even further while increase its aoe damage that has no meaning beside clearing trash. And tempalr already benefit in this cos his dps skills are AoE.
In PvP: it will be vey negative because Burning Light is way of templar to redeem its utterly low single target damage coz of his aoe skills. BL allow to pressure single opponent more effective and serve as burst option passive. Change not only will make tempalr damage output much weaker in small fights/bgs but also will make Spear Shards uncomparably OP AoE skill in zerg surfing.
aoe Damage output can be granted by buff of Solar Barrage with removed cast time: it will allow to use aoe dps skill that will also boost single target light attack damage, and get in line with light attacks changes. Same for pvp - templar will get mobile aoe skill that wont proc burning light but will buff single target damage of light attacks.

4. Nova buff:
As I listed in previous comments Nova got 9+% damage nerf after change of Enduring Rays.

And have some issue with snaring enemies inside even tho description no longer mention it.
6x3=18. In PvE or static PvP (unexisting tho), additional duration of major maim debuff is equal to be 18ultimate gains. 250-18=232ult. Having static ultimate that cost 232 ult and lost 9+% of its damage is hardly balanced.
Since morph was made for movement battles and while debuff can be cleanse anyway in pvp while in pve maim debuff will be preferable anyway coz it used by healers who role to decrease damage of boss. In compare to Shifting Standart that last twice longer, cost 25ult cheaper and have possibility to proc 2 synnergies during 1 ultimate, I suggest to reduce cost of Nova lower than 225ult. I will allow extend gap between Novas drops in trials that will ensure usability of Templar healers.

5. Eclipse loose CC immunity/Unstable Core fix:
It was said many times that this skill is not hard CC, it combination of soft and hard CCs. It cant disable enemy nor severe his mobility in any way. And thus rule of it apply CC immunity on expire simply cant work coz here should be applayable rule of roots - only actively counter of such cc should grant immunity to it for some period. For Eclipse it means as part of being soft cc - it should be countered by counter mechanic - CC Break; as part of it as being hard cc - counter should grant immunity to it that in case of hard CCs is 7sec.
It should stop grating CC immunity on cleanse - previously disorient from Luminous Shards were terrible cc coz it allowed enemy to get free cc immunity without any efforts. Now purging Eclipse grant cc immunity for bare efforts. In large-scale pvp there is always Purge spammers - use Eclipse there means chance that affectd enemy will be purged and have cc immunity. Or in templar battles - Cleanse is Templar defense mechanic that class use in battle anyway, in addition that it don't have reliable hard cc - such battle between templars become stalemate because none will waste stamina on break free coz cc immunity can be achieved by spamming main defensive skill. Even here with new duration of Eclipse to be 6sec - duration is lower than time of cc immunity in addition that with such cc mechanic it allow to recast skill to get higher uptime and affect enemy even during cc immunity timer.


Unstable Core and Enduring Rays - and old problem that dps of magnetic bomb is decreasing is still here:
magnetic bomb is exploding every 4 sec on default but after investing into Enduring Rays that prolong skills it become 5 and 6sec without increasing its damage:

It means that passive is decreasing dps of this skill for ~34%!
What should be done: return to one of previous mechnaics: 1. bound explosion to cc break; along with removing free cc immunity on expire it would force people to break free and proc explosion. 2.Remove magnetic explosion from being affected by debuff; however it would be weird that skill cant be affected by passive, isn't it? 3. I prefer - buff magnetic bomb damage for each additional second, as it was done with other dawn wrath dps skills.

6. Remembrance change/fix:
First of all it outdated visual: during early days it applied damage mitigation buff on allies that was represented as same visual as Sun Shield have, but after change to no longer affect allies it got new visual, symbolizing major protection buff but also kept old visual for some reason:

Old Visual of mitigation buff should be removed. 1. As you can see old visual make new one invisible.
2. It have same effect as Sun Shield making it harder to determine if skill was used along with ult.
3. 3. New visual have 8 sec duration while major protection effect it represent has actually 10sec duration, making it invisible for last 2 seconds:


Morph itself should stop disabling caster -
1. It have exact same animation of pray as Healing Ritual. HR was finally changed to be instant cast, and same must happen with ult healing too.
2. we have 2 morphs: 1 for group support, Practiced Incantation and other for self utility, but after nerf of Remembrance it started to lack both group utility and self utility: you gain less healing but at same time your still disabled by channel, making you unable to positioning and participate in battle.
3. Such change would buff tankiness of both templar specs and get rid of dependance on weapon trait on bar where ult is slotted. As being healing ult that independent to weapon choices and traits, allowing diversity in builds and weapon traits.
Warden does have strong burst class heals like Fungal Growth and Budding Seeds and such, it validation of having Grove that not disable is not working, while NBs now have Soul Siphon that allow to keep group alive in far-far greater radius and apply on them major vitality buff with synergy, and its all while participating in fight.

7. Channeled/Restoring Focus:
In compare of it current mechanic - imagine that our Purifying Light aoe heal was not attached to target but was ground heal that proc where PL exploded. How terribly and it would be. Same goes for Rune Focus.
After update Bolstering Darkness and Bound armor got updated, one with no longer be limited by ground, other to stop be double bar toggle. And don't forget Siphoning Strikes simplify - it was updated to completely repay skill cost, along with weaving making it clear resource winning ability.
Rune Focus also must get in line with changes of other classes and like Bolst. Darkness to be ground based 4m aoe debuff but have its buffs attached to caster for duration of skill(18sec).
It will make it utility in line with betty netch:
Betty can purge, cost zero resources, restoreresources, fully portable, proc 3 passives, grant offensive buff, proc companion dependant sets like Necropotence, and immune to damage/interrupts.
While Focus will be - have cost, fully portable, restore resources, cant proc sets, proc 2 major defensive buffs, snare enemies inside (that wont be used coz Cleansing Ritual anyway), vulnerable to Negate, proc at best 1 passive.

In relative of Rune Focus - mana restore morph was never changed, but Restoring Focus was changed several times, so I think it reasonable to talk about this skill at what it was from beginning unchanged - resource restore skill and thus we can compare it with other classes:
Channeled Focus cant restore both resources, as was requested, for same reason as why Siphon Strikes were changed to heal and restore 1 resource - resource management. Also it cant restore max resources coz diversity of morphs:
Through other classes - Siphon Strikes morphs restore either mana or stamina, Netch morphs restore either mana or stamina. Those morphs allow diversity in choosing which of morphs you wana use and nowdays both resources are valuable for any spec, be it mana spec that chose to restore stamina by Siphon. Strikes, or stamwarden chose mana netch for easier mana dump.
So, to get in line with other classes changes Restoring Focus should become stamina restore morph.
With such change morphs functionality would be equal to netch, which grant small bonus to mana morph to be on par:
Channeled Focus - restore mana, reduced cost(as currently).
Restoring Focus - restore stamina.

Such Restoring Focus would help tanks to get stamina returns, and while stamplar has lower burst heal than magplar, but having stamina return allow to change builds to more offense or defense without hurting offense capability coz of additional sustain. It is superior to minor buffs that are subjects of calculation diminishing returns. More importantly for tank the possibility to hold block longer than uncapable to block but get tiny mitigation that wont save in majority of struggles.

8. Master Ritualist:
Passive that shows what wrong with class...
It is passive that out Templar wont utilize during leveling, or doing overland content, and rarely will be used during pvp or dungeons run. For majority of Templars it like playing class with 1 less passive. It screams to everyone "this class is resbot" - something I really hate, when utility of class is being dump for other classes and groups. Implication of it means - you already failed.
We already have CP passiv and set that boost resurrect, which caused passive to be nerfed if this gear used. If someone decided to be dedicated resbot - everyone can do it fine.
That's why we need change this passive to empower templar himself, to allow him be better at what he is doing, instead of being just a mark of his failure.
And there is a lot of possibilities that this passive can have. For example remove 2ult gains by Healing Ritual from Light Weaver and grant it to Master Ritualist to allow to gain 2ult upon activating it Restoring Light healing abilities or proc proc minor heroism buff for 3sec. Or make our class channels to activate some kind of short effect and allow to benefit from class theme of channels, for example same minor heroism buff for 3sec
It wouldn't ally to stack such effects like current Light Weaver that will allow to restore 14ult per cast to group with low hp every seconds without cooldown in execute mode in trials. <-- It sounds a bit OP.
And It would serve all the roles than: 100% viability for caster and much higher group utility that would prevent group deaths and need of res.

@ZOS_Wrobel
P.S.: Make Dark Flare debuff undodgeable. You simply cant dodge aoe effects

@ZOS_Wrobel Wake up and pay attention.

Checkmath

ok i will just give my opinion to everything in the templars toolkit how it is atm. it is a long list, so enjoy

1. aedric spear:

1.1 piercing spear:
actually this passive is pretty nice, but it is in a kind of strange place as passive. aedric spear should be the tanking skill line? then this passive would rather fit into dawns wrath skill line. anyway, not bad but irritating.

1.2 spear wall
this passive is outdatet and should be granted without having a skill slotted. in pve the only skill to fit into would be sun shield, but that skill is unused pretty much, since templar tanks are in a bad spot for pve. for pvp this once made sense, when spear shards still had a stun. templars slotted it on the defense bar, threw it, bar swapped and could go offensive thx to the stun. now its gone and no other aedric spear ability will make it on the defense bar. pls include it as base passive instead of needing a skill slotted.

1.3 burning light
the idea of passive damage is nothing new, but welcomed. the slight increase here doesnt make templars better dd's, since there is only one ability mostly used in a dd rotation and this is blazing spear. ok puncturing strikes can proc it too, but it gets used less and less on magplar and stamplars use it, since they dont have anything else. both skills are aoe, so a cooldown per enemy should be included instead of the global one.

1.4 balanced warrior
a lot of people already mentioned it: no balance here, when it gives weapon damage and spellresistance. give us both resistance types and both damage types here.

1.5 puncturing strikes
this is a core ability of the templar and was from times to times so buggy and ***, that people abandoned it in pvp and pve. if thats not enough of a statement, lets get into it. cinbri stated enough proof that the damage is mitigated in a wrong way from cps, pls fix this. damage and secondary effects are actually not bad, but the skill is so damn clunky and doesnt hit moving objects reliably. can we get a shorter cast time maybe, same amount of hits in maybe 0.8 seconds? this would help with weaving light attacks between it.

1.6 piercing javelin
also this skill was mentioned a lot in the last year. stun and knockback arent bad, but 8 meters is too much. it prevents us from going really offensive, since we first have to catch up to the knockbacked enemy if we want to engage with jabs. anyway we have a similar skill in the destructive staff skillline, which almost does the same damage, only knocks back 5 meters and has a dot attached to it. this skill is very bad atm and should have an additional effect to justify its high costs. the stamina morph already provides a suggestion in its name: a rooting effect for example. also a debuff or aoe damage would probably make it up.

1.7 focussed charge
actually the most buggy charge ability in the game, its slow, has a minimal distance and no one else charges into a loading screen as much as templars with this skill. to make it better, above mentioned things need to be looked at. no minimal distance, faste animation and moving. also a stamina morph could here be included. still i dont think anything here will be enough to satisfy the community.

about 1.6 and 1.7
here actually i want one of boths removed and rather see a selfbuff included for templars. this aedric armor sounds very promising as a skill name. the animation could be similar to the glowing effects from rune focus, but i rather would like some some armor of light around the templar. this would be a defensive buff, which could include something like major evasion (enemies miss because of the glowing, but that would be a bad copy of the nb skill) or it could be something like an aoe minor maim (similar to the new shade area attack). it also could include a similar effect like blade cloak or some kind of spiked armor with spears returning damage to nearby enemies. this also would make again sense in combination with the passive spear wall. every class got something to get better in the tanking role, just not templars. here would be the perfect spot to add something.

1.8 spear shards
again one of the core abilities in either damage or supporting area of the templar. i already mentioned it, that balzing spear would benefit from another cooldown of burning light, but otherwise this skill is actually fine for the moment. also luminous shards are in a good spot, the throwing mechanism benefits both morphs to find its target precisely (ally or enemy).

1.9 sun shield
one of the lacklustering skills the templar has. templar tanks are really rare and therefore this skill is also unused. some templar tanks even dont use it anymore and claim, that breath of life is more effective for them to heal afterwards up instead of shielding. there are so many ways to buff up this skill. first off to make it a more viable option in pvp and attach some blinding to it, so after casting all enemies in 10 meters around the caster will miss the next 1-2 seconds. another option would be to add a buff to it, similar to the one listed in my suggestion for a new skill (maybe only minor buff or something). this would also make it more favored again for the remaining templar tanks. the last option would be to make one magicka or stamina scaled, but this is probably not the best idea.

1.10 radial sweep
cheap ultimate, but missing the actual pain points. the stamina version hits hard, but stamplar rather needs something to get tankier. meanwhile empowering sweep gives some tankyness, while the magplar rather misses the burst damage and a reliable stun. a beginning to make this ultimate more useful would be the change of the effects and to add a stun (for at least one enemy). or change it, that already the base morph provides the tankyness and the morphs either get a stun or the additional damage.

2. dawns wrath:

2.1 enduring rays
not a bad passive, since it increases the duration of the dots, debuffs and increases with the next patch also the amount of ticks solar barrage does. but why not give this to the skills and bring something new. here a passive would fit to bring the damage of templars more in line with others. or a sustain passive for stamplars restoring stamina when using an ability from dawns wrath skill line (sounds like what dks can i know...). some penetration maybe could be added here also.

2.2 prism
ok utligen for using a skill from the skill line, not even bad ultigen compared savage beast from the wardens passive (but wardens have other broken ultigen mechanics, especially with the next patch). still this is a passive, which isnt unique at all. i wouldnt mind to have another passive here.

2.3 illuminate
minor sorcery to your group when using a dawns wrath skill.....again a skill needs to be slotted or used....can this pls stop at some point. otherwise actually a nice passive, but with zero benefit for stamplars. can we add something for them here too? maybe change it to: casting a dawns wrath ability grants minor sorcery or brutality to you and your group depending on the type of costs the skill is based on.

2.4 restoring spirit
cool cost reduction, but could be a bit more, which would help stamplars to have more sustain. also the ultimate cost reduction isnt that strong compared to other passives. for example sorcerer have 6% cost reduction on skills and 16% on ultimates, while templars get 4% on everything.

2.5 sun fire
here i see a good opportunity to give stamplars another skill for their tooltip. we could move the change for several targets to the base skill, also it should deal magicg damage. while the magicka morph increases the duration and the stamina morph deals a little bit more physical damage. otherwise i would see fit to change the skill to something new too.

2.6 solar flare
it was said 100 times already, remove the cast time from solar barrage, otherwise it is too clunky and doesnt fit into rotations, especially when light attacks get more important now. about dark flare, i would change the empower on this skill, that it stays the same, so the next dark flare gets empowered. additionally fix the stuff with the defile and dodging. anyway, you should look at how the skill can be dodged, there is a bigger window to dodge this skill than other skills.

2.7 backlash
this skill is actually pretty fine, a very important skill in pve for offhealing and debuffing. also it is a huge component, since its one of a few "burst" abilities the templar has. maybe the visual effects should be a bit lowered for the target, since the visual effects is very huge and disturbing.

2.8 eclipse
if this skill would only work as desired. i mean it is not a cc, still grants immunity after breaking free (ok here its fair), cleansing and running off. there is no real disabling effect in this skill. additionally the visual cue is too slow, actually there is no chance to react to the skill. before you even see the skill, you already can hear your skills hitting the eclipse and damaging yourself. if all this would be sorted out, the skill could be fine, but till then its only buggy, visually challenging and a disadvantage for the templar, when the enemy knows how eclypse works. this skill only works against new players....

2.9 radiant destruction
this skill WAS good, but got nerfed and nerfed. now it hits for 10k less then it once did in pve. also the morph radiant oppression could see a change, since the 20% increase in damage is never granted, since you mostly are low on magicka when used. i would see fit to grant a small buff while channeling it like minor protection or minor resistance buff. maybe changing it into a stamina ranged execute would be fun too.

2.10
the most expensive ultimate in the game, which barely sees usage in the game. only a few pve scenarios and pvp fights in crowded placed see benefits from using it. you wanted to change it, so its more attractive for pvp by applying the debuff for 4 seconds to the enemies hit. good start, but not enough. since its a debuff and can be purged and only 4 seconds it not enough. to justify the huge costs, the fragment of the sun should actually stack to a targeted enemy while applying snare and debuff constantly every second to any enemy in the radius around the target. also a cost decrease for the morph with better synergy should be considered.

3. restoring light:

3.1 mending
up till to 12% more healing, when the healed ally is low health isnt bad at all, but it was a bad compensation, when you took major mending away. how about you increase this once more a bit, maybe with another scaling, that really low allies benefit even more? if no, how about we get major mending back under a condition like the one from wardens, that we need to heal an ally under 40% to get it?

3.2 sacred ground
here you took away our major mending, how about you put it back, where it belongs? otherwise i would see fit to add here another buff for the templars like increased moving speed till 4 seconds after you leave your "house". that also may be granted to allies. how about it, 10% movement speed, which could stack with minor velocity? otherwise there should be an extra debuff for enemies entering said area, if you really want to force the house play style on templars.

3.3 light weaver
the part about extra resistances here is very needed to buff up our ultimate. this one point is very crucial for saving your group and yourself in pvp. but the other two points are very underwhelming. 20% duration increase for restoring auro is garbage....because the skill is garbage. also granting our allies ultimate, when healing with healing ritual is pretty nonsense. here i would put the increases resistance to the ultimate itself and make the passive a new one, where we get either ultimate, resources back, increased healing or another buff, when we heal a low health ally. how about you grant yourself and your low health ally major protection for 2 seconds after healing him or yourself up?

3.4 master ritualist
its a nice perk to have....but not much more. everyone resurrecting or getting resurrected just presses a heal ability to get back to 100% health. so if we resurrect faster and with full health doesnt make that much of a difference. here a new passive or some additional effect would fit in too.

3.5 rushed ceremony
for solo gameplay and burst healing a very useful skill, but recently got some nerfs and will get another one for breath of life again. also there are other classes like sorcerer and warden, which also have a burst heal, which is as competent, if not better (since the wardens fungal growth is aoe heal). dont know what to say about the changes, but breath of life already was on the verge of being used compared to honor the dead....

3.6 healing ritual
the costs are *** huuuuge with the changes to summerset, but i think it will more or less be sustainable, if you build for. i dont like the idea to see a clapper bot in ballgroups only spamming this aoe burst heal and granting everyone additional movement speed....but so be it. there would have been so much more a templar could do than only burst healing.

3.7 restoring aura
i already mentioned before, this skill was trashed some time ago, when repentance got nerfed. repentance now is a skill, where stamplars fight for their resources, which is a very bad design. the other morph...lets not talk about it, its garbage. it gets beaten by elemental drain, which is for free and also applies major breach. i would suggest to remake this skill into a strong healing over time ability. this is what templars lack at the moment, healing over times. they are the healer class, but only saw healing nerfs lately. how about we get an area effect, which applies a strong heal to everybody stepping into the area for the next 10 seconds. we also can make one morph of it to be stamina based. another possibility here would be a skill which restores resources, but i think thats not the right point here.

3.8 cleansing ritual
very good skill, healing over time is a bit low and the damage over time of the ritual of retribution is pretty senseless. once again, give this skill an additional buff, if you want to see templars staying in their house. ritual of retribution might contain minor defile for enemies standing in it, while extended ritual gives allies staying in it a bonus of 10% healing taken. but without any additional defense mechanism, it is impossible to stand their ground as templars.

3.9 rune focus
there are two ways to solve this skills problem. solution 1 is to make it not a ground effect and the resistance buff stays n the templar for the full time. then i also would add stamina recovery to the channeled focus morph, if t^stamina is the higher stat. so magicka will be restored, when you have more magicka and the other way round for stamina. this would be a bone to the templar tank in pve. the other solution would ne to enlargen the area and add a huge defensive buff to it, like major protection, while standing in it. then the area would need to be around 8 meter radius and major protection only is granted while staying in it, but the resistance buff will remain for the 8 seconds when leaving.

3.10 rite of passage
remembrance is the chosen morph here, since it grants damage reduction and enough healing to shortly save your friends. normally only used in pvp and is followed by mistform to catch up to your group after saving them. pretty no thankful mechanism, when you just saved your friends, but you were left behind for it....practiced incantantion is useless. lot of people suggested changes like a self heal or being mobile with it. i think that would be great, since the skill as it is at the moment is just not usable.


final words:
templars pretty much are stuck at the moment into a few play styles. but they have all something in common: no real defense mechanism and poor mobility. in pve, templars can be either healers are stamina damage dealers to buff up the damage a bit. but as tanks and magicka damage dealer they are undesired. my suggestions included some points to give templars a bit of what they need to be more competitive as tanks and magicka damage dealer. a bit of cost reduction, some more spelldamage or penetration.
with the changes in summerset, everyone gets a bone to be more like a tank or a healer, just not templars. i want to see something added here. my said suggestion would include a new skill in the aedric skillline, which enhances our defense and a change sun shield. also i would like to see some healing over time ability for templars or some ultimate generation through healing or buffs, when healing a low health ally.
for pvp templars again are pushed into the healing role or into heavy armor (exception are builds with wizards riposte and stuff). a healing over time or additional defensive buffs would also make other magicka templar builds viable. same goes for stamina templar. they could need more defense and especially some better sustain. i included some better cost reduction passives or stamina return passives in my long text. also where is the major sorcery and good stun abilities?

i really hope we will see some more changes with summerset....

(and sry for the bad english^^)

Joy_Division

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Yeah, I'll do the exact number crunching this weekend, but my Sweeps numbers were not at all encouraging. I was not in my full PvP spec, however I was CRITTING for 973 damage and back in the day that was less than my regular hits in Cyrodiil.

This isn't easy because we don't have a Live server where we know Sweeps is working for a baseline. And the damage mitigation calculator I used online is not outputting the "right" numbers even for skills we think are working correctly.

So all have to go on is relative test: is Sweeps being reduced by the same % as Reflective Light and Structured Entropy (2 skills we think work correctly. Going by this basis, then perhaps Sweeps is not bugged on the PTS.

My structured entropy DoT on Minno (near resist cap) without any CP was 322. With both damage reducing CPs (19% Thick Skin and 11% Elemental defender), it did 227. That's a 29.5% reduction.

My Reflective Light DoT without any CP was 615. With the CPs, 438. A 28.7% reduction.

My Sweeps damage without any CP was 994. With the CPs, 628. That's 29.3% reduction.

So, at least on a relative level, Sweeps probably isn't acting differently than anything else. At least on the PTS. 628 is low, but I was using a Frost Staff and did not have a complete 5 piece second set so my damage is lower that it should be and Minno's resist was roughly 30K.

That being said, I have been paying attention to Sweeps damage on Live (both for and against me) and I'm 90% certain something is fishy going on with the calculations on Live. I routinely hit for under 1K and routinely am hit for under 1K and that was not the norm before the Dragon Bones patch. It is possible ZOS fixed this. What I really think would be helpful and to put everyone's mind at ease is for a developer, whoever is in charge for bug testing to acknowledge they read this this post that details the Dragon Bones PTS bug. and give some sort of explanation why the damage numbers were too low and exactly what has been done on this cycle of the PTS to rectify that bug.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Yeah, I'll do the exact number crunching this weekend, but my Sweeps numbers were not at all encouraging. I was not in my full PvP spec, however I was CRITTING for 973 damage and back in the day that was less than my regular hits in Cyrodiil.

This isn't easy because we don't have a Live server where we know Sweeps is working for a baseline. And the damage mitigation calculator I used online is not outputting the "right" numbers even for skills we think are working correctly.

So all have to go on is relative test: is Sweeps being reduced by the same % as Reflective Light and Structured Entropy (2 skills we think work correctly. Going by this basis, then perhaps Sweeps is not bugged on the PTS.

My structured entropy DoT on Minno (near resist cap) without any CP was 322. With both damage reducing CPs (19% Thick Skin and 11% Elemental defender), it did 227. That's a 29.5% reduction.

My Reflective Light DoT without any CP was 615. With the CPs, 438. A 28.7% reduction.

My Sweeps damage without any CP was 994. With the CPs, 628. That's 29.3% reduction.

So, at least on a relative level, Sweeps probably isn't acting differently than anything else. At least on the PTS. 628 is low, but I was using a Frost Staff and did not have a complete 5 piece second set so my damage is lower that it should be and Minno's resist was roughly 30K.

That being said, I have been paying attention to Sweeps damage on Live (both for and against me) and I'm 90% certain something is fishy going on with the calculations on Live. I routinely hit for under 1K and routinely am hit for under 1K and that was not the norm before the Dragon Bones patch. It is possible ZOS fixed this. What I really think would be helpful and to put everyone's mind at ease is for a developer, whoever is in charge for bug testing to acknowledge they read this this post that details the Dragon Bones PTS bug. and give some sort of explanation why the damage numbers were too low and exactly what has been done on this cycle of the PTS to rectify that bug.

Well why is cinbri getting different numbers?
Should we test master of arms and ironclad?

Joy_Division

Minno wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division @Minno @technohic
hows your tests going?

I think we were seeing the same numbers as you, but Joy has all the data.

I was the test dummy lol.

Yeah, I'll do the exact number crunching this weekend, but my Sweeps numbers were not at all encouraging. I was not in my full PvP spec, however I was CRITTING for 973 damage and back in the day that was less than my regular hits in Cyrodiil.

This isn't easy because we don't have a Live server where we know Sweeps is working for a baseline. And the damage mitigation calculator I used online is not outputting the "right" numbers even for skills we think are working correctly.

So all have to go on is relative test: is Sweeps being reduced by the same % as Reflective Light and Structured Entropy (2 skills we think work correctly. Going by this basis, then perhaps Sweeps is not bugged on the PTS.

My structured entropy DoT on Minno (near resist cap) without any CP was 322. With both damage reducing CPs (19% Thick Skin and 11% Elemental defender), it did 227. That's a 29.5% reduction.

My Reflective Light DoT without any CP was 615. With the CPs, 438. A 28.7% reduction.

My Sweeps damage without any CP was 994. With the CPs, 628. That's 29.3% reduction.

So, at least on a relative level, Sweeps probably isn't acting differently than anything else. At least on the PTS. 628 is low, but I was using a Frost Staff and did not have a complete 5 piece second set so my damage is lower that it should be and Minno's resist was roughly 30K.

That being said, I have been paying attention to Sweeps damage on Live (both for and against me) and I'm 90% certain something is fishy going on with the calculations on Live. I routinely hit for under 1K and routinely am hit for under 1K and that was not the norm before the Dragon Bones patch. It is possible ZOS fixed this. What I really think would be helpful and to put everyone's mind at ease is for a developer, whoever is in charge for bug testing to acknowledge they read this this post that details the Dragon Bones PTS bug. and give some sort of explanation why the damage numbers were too low and exactly what has been done on this cycle of the PTS to rectify that bug.

Well why is cinbri getting different numbers?
Should we test master of arms and ironclad?

Cinbri got different numbers because he tested it on Dragon Bones PTS and compared it to the old Live server.

We have neither option. Live has been changed with Dragon Bones and the we're testing on summerset PTS.