Please eliminate the transmute crystal cap--clunky, ineffective, and very player-hostile

Mannix1958 · April 2018

Sting864 wrote: »

So wait... You can only wear 7 armour pieces and have at most 2 weapons at a time.... Yet you transmute crystals are capped at what?? 100?? How is that clunky??

Now mutliple that by 15 since I have 15 toons

Feanor · April 2018

@code65536

If they raise the crystal cap they sure are to raise the cost per item as well. What would you rather have? I prefer 50 cost and 200 crystals instead of 125 cost and 500 cap. Simply because the stored geodes will enable more transmutations with the lower cost.

Voxicity · April 2018

5 of my characters have half their inventory blocked with geodes. It's not a very fun experience

Ilithyania · April 2018

wouldnt mind an increase or removal for CAP

Kikke · April 2018

Or.... just a suggestion.... Use them? Most ESO players have TONS of items they've saved over the times, some gone out of date after the horns of the reach. But still, tons too retrait. I'm farming crystals from PvE and PvP. And I keep using them faster than I can get them. So for me it sounds like you are only farming crystals and no gear. And then complain that the system put in place too make gear farming easier did not replace the entirety of the gear farm?

Gearing 10 chars with "bis" traits without running the dungeons 1000000 times, costs crystals. witch I spend

If you are a PvPer, get used too trowing crystals out, as you get too much by simply PvPing. Not that it's a complaint, I can even see why PvP players get crystals trown after them. After they have continually been complaining about having too GRIND PvE dungeons for PvP gear.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2018

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Fairly certain it doesn't work like this

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2018

My view on the cap is; I understand why they've done it. Yes you can bypass it by storing geodes, but not everyone will do that.

They don't want you to instantly retrait 10+ items when new patches drop.

Some saying it's incentive for Eso+ i don't agree with, 100 more crystals is miniscule.

Marabornwingrion · April 2018

Sheezabeast wrote: »

it should be 500, 600 for plus.

It should be 500,600 for everyone!

Jade1986 · April 2018

200 limit is pitiful. Hell, imo there shouldnt be a limit. Im just destroying any i get now cuz i have 4 geodes with 50 in them on 9 toons. So its like, no point to have anymore at this point.

notyuu · April 2018

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Yes you can...provided you have the nirnhoned material for the transmute in the first place, rendering the entire process little more than a way to burn crystals while having a net gain of 0

Voxicity · April 2018

notyuu wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Yes you can...provided you have the nirnhoned material for the transmute in the first place, rendering the entire process little more than a way to burn crystals while having a net gain of 0

This is exactly what I was thinking

sudaki_eso · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

5 of my characters have half their inventory blocked with geodes. It's not a very fun experience

You obviously dont need them, why are you hoarding them? For me 200 are fine, i wouldnt mind more but i can understand the reason behind it.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote:

They don't want you to instantly retrait 10+ items when new patches drop.

^This,

code65536 · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

This thread again?

I give up.

Just answer me one question: Given that crystals well beyond the cap can be hoarded by simply leaving them inside their containers, what does the cap accomplish beyond annoying players?

Surely if you have the time to pop into this thread to post what you did, you have the time to answer this one simple question. I look forward to what you have to say.

Obviously ESO can't stop people from hoarding altogether, but because hoarding takes up precious bag space, it discourages people from doing it. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

So what you're saying is that it's a system designed to annoy players and to discourage them from collecting and retaining the rewards obtained from playing the game. Thank you for the clarification.

Thanks, that's not what I said at all. Nice try though.

They don't want people to stockpile tons of crystals and be like "ok I'm basically done forever." They want people to keep on farming crystals and playing the content in the game. Your bag space being eaten up is a penalty that discourages you from hoarding crystals-- either you can deal with the aggravation of having no bag space, or you can toss them and farm crystals naturally like they likely intend.

Look, it's annoying to me too, because I also like hoarding them in my bag. But if you can't discern the purpose behind the system other than "lolool it's there to annoy players" I really don't know what to say to you anymore.

So you admit that you yourself hold crystals beyond the cap. And that it's annoying to do so. But it's okay--that annoyance is so that we there is a limit to how much beyond the cap we can hold!

Somehow, that doesn't seem like a compellingly good reason to annoy the players. "Here, we are giving you a hostile, bad player experience. But, trust me, holding 1000 beyond the cap is better than holding 10000, so it's all for your own good!"

In any case, my statement is nevertheless accurate--it's there to annoy and inconvenience players. Where we differ is that you have this curious notion that this annoyance serves a higher, worthwhile goal, and I reject such a notion as ridiculous and hostile to the player experience.

Slick_007 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

"The cap on the number of transmute crystals that you can hold must be eliminated."

I got to the 200 crystal max during the anniversary box drops too.

and yet i have around 900 currently. the caps are fine

So you enjoy the clumsiness of holding 700 more crystals beyond the cap? You enjoy the hoops that you are made to jump through? To claim that the cap is fine while also circumventing that cap by several fold seem imply that you like the artificial inconvenience that you have to go through in order to circumvent the cap.

I--and I suspect most players--have little stomach for that sort of masochism.

code65536 · April 2018

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Fairly certain it doesn't work like this

And I'm completely certain that you are wrong, since I have a number of nirncrux that I've obtained this way.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

They don't want you to instantly retrait 10+ items when new patches drop.

Why not? You still need to do the content to acquire that gear to retrait. You still need to do the content to level up jewelry crafting, to acquire the new trait jewelry, and to research the new trait jewelry. This phantom boogeyman of the "instant retrait" that people have seem to ignore this basic fact.

The reason I won't be retraiting every jewelry to bloodthirsty, infused, or triune on patch drop is not because of the cap--it's because I need to do the content.

But even if I could instantly retrait, why is crystal grinding that I do now somehow considered bad compared to crystal grinding that I might do in the future? If this is to encourage me to "play the game" in the future, it's being done in a way that discourages me from doing so in the present. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

If the 100/200 cap is consistently a source of frustration for players, ZOS might consider it a problem... and lower the availability of transmutation crystals.

The transmutation system is there to help and reduce the grind for BiS occasionally. It's not there to be able to have all desired gear in each desired trait on day 1. That's why they don't want us to stockpile too many crystals. ESO+ attractivity being another big aspect.

I believe though that the current issue is only temporary and comes from anniversary boxes. It usually isn't "raining crystals" like that.

Jameliel · April 2018

Awesome post. Please pay attention ZOS.

code65536 · April 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The transmutation system is there to help and reduce the grind for BiS occasionally. It's not there to be able to have all desired gear in each desired trait on day 1.

Yet people stockpile several hundreds of crystals anyway, circumventing the gap. So the cap is ineffective.

But, I ask again, why is running 10 characters through the Fungal I pledge two months from now somehow a better thing than running 10 characters through Fungal I now? Whether I earned the crystals today or a month from today shouldn't matter--it doesn't change the fact that crystals are earned by playing the game. They are discouraging present-day gameplay to encourage future gameplay, and in the process saddling us with a clumsy, unfriendly system and leaving players with a decidedly negative experience.

paulsimonps · April 2018

So many people seem to think those with a crap ton of crystals have farmed for them, most people can with ease reach cap by just casually doing the content. The crystals are super easy to get. So easy that those that do a lot of pledges, trials or PvP will see themsleves with an ocean of cŕystals they have no use for nor can't in an effective way store. It's a cruel joke at this point.

Increase the cap or get ride of it. I don't want the crystals harder to get but our reward for playing the game should not be thrown in our faces like this for simply playing a lot or effectivly, punishing players for doing that which rewards them.

reiverx · April 2018

Items that you earn shouldn't be capped.

With a four item limit (if you are giving ZOS $15 every month) I would call this a cripple rather than a cap.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2018

It's an artificial stumbling block, and certainly an unnecessary one.

It's not as if there are not enough inventory issues the way it is without letting this compound it.

If it's for purposes of limiting the rate of transmute, they can dial back the crystal gain rate. They could even put some arbitrary cooldown on the number of items you can transmute per 24 hours.

As OP states, the crystals themselves are not difficult to come by, so the limit is simply an annoyance. It doesn't really limit anything (but your time and space).

This could also be cured by allowing like inventory items to stack. Unopened/accessed coffers, geodes, reward boxes, even like trait set items. The forced delay caused by inventory management hell is long overdue to go. (And 360 bonus slots with containers hardly scratches the surface if you run various kinds of content.)

Give the crystals value beyond the obvious, let them be exchanged for something else (even if strait conversion to gold) to give the extras function beyond that of an unnecessary inventory placeholder.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2018

notyuu wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Yes you can...provided you have the nirnhoned material for the transmute in the first place, rendering the entire process little more than a way to burn crystals while having a net gain of 0

You don't need trait material to transmute anything. That' what the crystals do.

You simply need 50 crystals and trait knowledge.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Yet people stockpile several hundreds of crystals anyway, circumventing the gap. So the cap is ineffective.

People circumvent the inventory cap all the time, by creating alts, mules, ghost guilds, and even extra accounts, just for storage purposes. Does that mean we should have unlimited inventory ?

There are limits in every game - and even more so in MMOs for two main reasons :
- RPG : you're supposed to make *choices*; else we'd all end up with the same know-it-all character
- Monetization. Setting a limit and let people pay to have it raised or removed.

code65536 wrote: »

But, I ask again, why is the crystal grinding that I do now discouraged than the crystal grinding that I do in the future?

Yes, tomorrow's grinding is more valuable to ZOS than today's grinding (and past grinding is definitely worth nothing to them).
Let's say you need 500 crystals. You can play all day, repeating vet dungeon upon vet dungeon. And log off, and be happy that it's done. And maybe not play anymore for a week (because of "nothing left to do"). If there's a limit, you'll play today up to that limit, then maybe do something else in the game that you might get hooked to. And log on the next day to carry on.

ZOS is interested in having us playing a lot, but more importantly, in having us logging in everyday and have our routines installed, with long-term projections. As a result, we might buy ESO+ on a 3- or 6-month basis rather than 1 month, we may invest more in crown cosmetics because after all, we'll get to admire the stuff everyday, etc. They seek and need our long term involvement on a daily or at least regular and frequent basis. Not any ad-hoc long play session - potentially leading to boredom or burnout.

That's why there are dailies instead of infinitely repeatable quests. That why there are limits to grinding anything (incl. crystals). That's why we can only feed horses (sorry, learn to ride...) one day at a time. Etc.

I hope that answers your question.

But my original point was to emphasize that the more we complain about being forced to trash crystals because of the storage limitation, the more likely ZOS will reduce the availability of crystals - and not remove or raise the limitation. We should be careful what we wish for, because we could very well get it - but not the way we wanted it.

Slick_007 · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

So you enjoy the clumsiness of holding 700 more crystals beyond the cap? You enjoy the hoops that you are made to jump through? To claim that the cap is fine while also circumventing that cap by several fold seem imply that you like the artificial inconvenience that you have to go through in order to circumvent the cap.

I--and I suspect most players--have little stomach for that sort of masochism.

what hoops? its hardly a bother. clumsiness? just because they dont go into my 'wallet' does not at all mean its clumsy. Sure, they take up a bag slot. meh, not a big deal. You are making a far bigger issue of this than it is, and trying to put words into other peoples mouths.

Avran_Sylt · April 2018

TBH, I don't actually know why they have the cap so low. Hoarders will simply hoard again after they retrait gear, it's not going to stop them from playing the content.

I want to argue that it causes the players play time to be spread out, but since you can hoard geodes anyway in your inventory that doesn't really hold any value.

I suppose they could reform the crystals into a duration based currency whose caches and individual unit expires after a given time period, such that hoarding becomes impossible. But that would require an entire rebalance of the system.

Nestor · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

They want people to keep on farming crystals and playing the content in the game. Your bag space being eaten up is a penalty that discourages you from hoarding crystals-- either you can deal with the aggravation of having no bag space, or you can toss them and farm crystals naturally like they likely intend.

Wait. Hold on for a second. Are you telling me the only reason I run a Trial is to get Crystals? Or a Dungeon? Or do PvP?. Wrong. Also, who farms for something they need only at the time they farm for it? No one outside of their first month in the game. People who farm, do so for the future, not right now.

Transmute Crystals are a side reward, not the main reward. Sure, some will farm them when they have a need to transmute something. But that system sucks because I can't store up the crystals I need ahead of time.

I have tons of crafting mats I will probably never use. Does that stop me from doing crafting writs, survey's and running Hirelings? No. I have most if not all the gear sets in the game that are worth running content to farm for. Guess what, I still run that content, being loaded up on gear does not stop me. The difference is, I get some benefit from the extra gear, even if it is just the mats I get from decon. I get no benefit at all from extra crystals. That alone de-incentivizes me to run the content.

When I am at the arbitrary crystal cap, I have to stop running content to find something to transmute that I may not want to transmute, but I have to use the crystals up anyway. Who knows if that piece of gear that is worthy today is going to be worthy in the future.

The artificial and arbitrary cap on Transmute Crystals is more a punishment for running content than an incentive.

code65536 · April 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

People circumvent the inventory cap all the time, by creating alts, mules, ghost guilds, and even extra accounts, just for storage purposes. Does that mean we should have unlimited inventory ?

We have unlimited inventory for crafting materials, i.e., the Craft Bag. I think most players consider it as an essential QoL improvement and many would consider the game to be nigh unplayable without it. Nobody likes to play the inventory game--if forcing people to play the inventory game was their goal, then why introduce something like the Craft Bag?

We also have "unlimited inventory" for gold, Tel-Var, and AP.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Monetization. Setting a limit and let people pay to have it raised or removed.

Fair enough. Perhaps I should amend my request to "eliminate the cap for ESO+ subscribers"?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's why there are dailies instead of infinitely repeatable quests. That why there are limits to grinding anything (incl. crystals). That's why we can only feed horses (sorry, learn to ride...) one day at a time. Etc.

The crystal sources are already gated like this. Pledge crystals can happen only once per day per character. Trials crystals can happen only once per week per character. PvP crystals happen only once per day per account (for RotW) or once per week/month per character (for campaign). Group Finder crystals are once per day per character.

There is already a temporal limit on how quickly you can farm crystals. Why do we need a cap on top of all this?

zaria · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

Fairly certain it doesn't work like this

And I'm completely certain that you are wrong, since I have a number of nirncrux that I've obtained this way.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

They don't want you to instantly retrait 10+ items when new patches drop.

Why not? You still need to do the content to acquire that gear to retrait. You still need to do the content to level up jewelry crafting, to acquire the new trait jewelry, and to research the new trait jewelry. This phantom boogeyman of the "instant retrait" that people have seem to ignore this basic fact.

The reason I won't be retraiting every jewelry to bloodthirsty, infused, or triune on patch drop is not because of the cap--it's because I need to do the content.

But even if I could instantly retrait, why is crystal grinding that I do now somehow considered bad compared to crystal grinding that I might do in the future? If this is to encourage me to "play the game" in the future, it's being done in a way that discourages me from doing so in the present. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak.

This, add that the cap is pointless as you can just do pvp on all alts in a 30 day campaign.
this give an 50 crystal geode at end of campaign. This takes one inventory slot but can be used to transmute lots of items fast. I think you can just read the mail on the character and have an bank alt pick it up.

This event is annoying as you get raw crystals who is wasted then full, think the same is true for trials rewards.

Slick_007 · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

The crystal sources are already gated like this. Pledge crystals can happen only once per day per character. Trials crystals can happen only once per week per character. PvP crystals happen only once per day per account (for RotW) or once per week/month per character (for campaign). Group Finder crystals are once per day per character.

There is already a temporal limit on how quickly you can farm crystals. Why do we need a cap on top of all this?

you have absolutely no idea of the difference between the cap and the earning potential apparently. thats why you created this thread.

code65536 · April 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The crystal sources are already gated like this. Pledge crystals can happen only once per day per character. Trials crystals can happen only once per week per character. PvP crystals happen only once per day per account (for RotW) or once per week/month per character (for campaign). Group Finder crystals are once per day per character.

There is already a temporal limit on how quickly you can farm crystals. Why do we need a cap on top of all this?

you have absolutely no idea of the difference between the cap and the earning potential apparently. thats why you created this thread.

You evidently failed to read the context of the post to which I replied.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Monetization. Setting a limit and let people pay to have it raised or removed.

Fair enough. Perhaps I should amend my request to "eliminate the cap for ESO+ subscribers"?

It's already doubled for ESO+ subbers. Now they could well imagine another monetization layer on top of ESO+ ...

code65536 wrote: »

There is already a temporal limit on how quickly you can farm crystals. Why do we need a cap on top of all this?

Valid point. But as I said, if it appears that the storage limitation is not in range with the farming limitation... they will probably limit the farming even more - and not increase the storage...