Please eliminate the transmute crystal cap--clunky, ineffective, and very player-hostile

code65536 · April 2018

The cap on the number of transmute crystals that you can hold should be eliminated.

Reason 1: It is clunky and user unfriendly.

Looting crystals beyond the cap just causes those crystals to be lost. The only safeguard is the inability to open a geode if you're at the cap, and this safeguard doesn't help if you're opening a geode that will overflow the cap and it doesn't apply to other containers like trials coffers, vMA/vDSA final chests, or anniversary boxes. There's no mechanism to only partially loot the crystals if you're going to overflow. And no warning, too. This is an appallingly bad user experience.
It forces people to transmute gear when they are not ready to. For example, let's say I've looted both a medium and a heavy Ilambris headpiece. I don't know which headpiece I will end up using because I don't have the shoulder yet. If I get a medium shoulder, I'll use the heavy head, and if I get a heavy shoulder, I'll use the medium head. So I don't want to transmute the headpiece until I know which of the two I am going to use. But the cap will sometimes force me to transmute an item, just so that I can get those low-crystal geodes out of my inventory. Which one do I transmute? Do I just guess what shoulder weight I'll eventually get? How on earth would anyone consider this to be a good player experience?

Reason 2: It doesn't work.

@ZOS_RichLambert has often said that they don't like people getting shiny toys on "Day 1". Although they never stated a reason for the draconian cap, one could guess that maybe this is one of them. Except it doesn't work.

People still need to acquire the gear itself. Want an Infused Perfected Inferno? I can tell you one thing: whether or not someone has the crystals is not the determining factor in how quickly someone will get that item. People will still run the new content because transmute crystals are useless if there's no gear to transmute.
Some may argue that the crystal cap will encourage people to "run the content". But couldn't it be just as much of a deterrent to run the content, by stripping rewards away from the player? Why would I bother to run pledges for crystals when I can't even loot the geodes?
- To put it another way, why is running 10 characters through the Fungal 1 pledge now somehow considered bad compared to doing that two months from now? If the crystal cap exists to encourage me to "play the game" in the future, it's being done in a way that discourages me from doing so in the present. You're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak.
You can get around the cap by simply playing the inventory game (that I'm sure everyone just loves) and managing geodes. I personally have probably a thousand crystals saved up in the form of unopened containers. I have friends who PvP a lot who have even more crystals stashed away in geode form. The cap doesn't actually work. People can still hoard crystals. It's just an annoying pain in the derriere. Again, ask yourself the question, "Is this a good player experience?"

Reason 3: It feels hostile.

Crystals are earned rewards. Yet why does it feel like that the game doesn't like us earning crystals? For people who don't mind playing the inventory game and saving crystals that way, it feels like the game is just making us jump through unnecessary hurdles to claim and retain the fruits of our play. For people who don't want to play the inventory game and who end up destroying the crystals that they can't hold, why are you removing the rewards of gameplay from those players? Why does crystal management feel like punishment instead of something fun to look forward to?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno I have three questions that I'd like for you to answer, if you please...

What is the goal of the crystal cap, or, what are you trying to accomplish with the cap?
Does the cap actually accomplish this goal that you have in mind?
Do you think that the crystal cap delivers a good player experience?

Paazhahdrimaak · April 2018

Its to make you get plus, and only for 100 more
This company's tactics are starting to hurt my soul. Not believe in good people. Ive spent the last 15 years playing elder scrolls games, I want to stop playing this game and stop giving them money, but theyve been very clear the next elder scrolls game is a long way out.

Please give love back to the people who love your games, stop being so greedy

Armatesz · April 2018

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

code65536 · April 2018

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

I know, and I already do that to burn off excess crystals. But does this specific mitigation change the answers to my 2nd and 3rd questions, though, about whether the crystal cap accomplishes a worthwhile goal and whether or not the cap system is a good player experience?

I suspect that most people would answer no.

Armatesz · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

You can transmute an item into nirnhoned and deconstruct it to get the nirnhoned material. Hope this adds another path for you.

I know, and I already do that to burn off excess crystals. But does this specific mitigation change the answers to my 2nd and 3rd questions, though, about whether the crystal cap accomplishes a worthwhile goal and whether or not the cap system is a good player experience?

I suspect that most people would answer no.

A worthwhile goal is always going to be something that may depend on ways to do something from different paths. I can say as a person that does master writs and various craftings that the crystals have made it somewhat easier to get nirnhoned material. I can craft a junk item from a level range I barely get anyone asking to make and just deconstruct it. End result is I get an item with that trait that I can deconstruct for the material that which I need to make said item in nirnhoned for the master writ. This is coming from someone that before the transmutation system was introduced I wanted to get enough writ vouchers to cover for the transmutation station (note I didn't know how much it was at the time and if I had extra I was going to just get other things as well). I had to find the struggle of certain writs that I felt were just plain not worth doing, nirnhoned most often was not worth doing. Transmute crystals have introduced a way to get something from something I do every day. I won't lie this event is also making it so I can get far more nirnhoned material from retrait deconstruction.
Another thing to consider is I make stuff for others to learn how to make. If they know an item already in nirnhoned for weapons or armor I tell them how to get more material without having to buy it if they have too much transmute crystals. Tell them to deconstruct it so they get the material and I make it for them. I don't charge them for it. There are multiple odd ways to get rewarded for doing them.
Do I think they need to increase the cap? Yeah I do, I think it should be double the current amount. But to remove the cap I dunno about that one.

Sting864 · April 2018

So wait... You can only wear 7 armour pieces and have at most 2 weapons at a time.... Yet you transmute crystals are capped at what?? 100?? How is that clunky??

Sheezabeast · April 2018

it should be 500, 600 for plus.

Armatesz · April 2018

Sting864 wrote: »

So wait... You can only wear 7 armour pieces and have at most 2 weapons at a time.... Yet you transmute crystals are capped at what?? 100?? How is that clunky??

200 with eso plus.

Solariken · April 2018

I see the value in having a cap on crystals, but 200 is way too freaking low. 500 would be appropriate IMO.

Nemesis7884 · April 2018

i would agree, i hate the cap, i hate the whole system, thats why i just stopped bothering with it

code65536 · April 2018

Sting864 wrote: »

So wait... You can only wear 7 armour pieces and have at most 2 weapons at a time.... Yet you transmute crystals are capped at what?? 100?? How is that clunky??

You are aware that it's 50 crystals per item, not 1 crystal per, right? So you can hold enough to transmute only 4 items (or just 2 without ESO+).

ccfeeling · April 2018

ESO+

This is the reason ZOS all trying to do

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

Yes plz .

efster · April 2018

I used to think that the cap was in place to discourage people from farming Rewards of the Worthy boxen for the crystals by logging into all their toons to loot the "first" box, but then it turned out the RotW farming wasn't intended, so now I'm not sure what the point of the cap is.

If a player wants to hoard 10000 crystals and be ready to retrait all their gear at a moment's notice when the meta changes, isn't that the same as master crafter players being ready to recraft their gear? Granted, only some gear can be recrafted and all gear can be retraited, but both of these situations require the players to play the game and like OP I can't really see why the devs seem to think inventory management is more exciting than running dungeons.

Darkmage1337 · April 2018

@code65536 I completely agree. Very detailed post. Nice job.
I also echo that the transmutation crystal cap should either be eliminated altogether; or, like others have said, increased to 500, more or less.
After returning from a long break, I find the crystal grind kind of tedious in the fact that I have to force myself to transmute an item (usually a weapon to nirn, or a monster shoulder piece to divines) when I am at or near the crystal cap.
I have about 7-8 weapons/armor on hand in bank or inventory that I want to transmute, but I have to pick and choose which ones to transmute and then grind up to the crystal cap again.
I would like the option to wait longer until I have all crystals ready for all my gear, that way, if I get the right trait on an item along the way, I can 'save' the crystals and use them on the next thing, instead of having so many opportunity costs and trade-offs along the way.
200 crystals / 4 gear items is just too little. If they're going to keep the current system, then either reduce the transmutation cost done to 25 from 50; or, more likely, increase the crystal cap from 200 to 500.

runagate · April 2018

Do you ever get sick of being wise about what is healthy for this game?

Kudos yet again

Kikke · April 2018

You did know that when transmutation was on PTS, Zenimax nerfed the amount of crystals from 250 too 200, because they did not feel that it was right that someone could just farm 5 off-trait items and instantly transmute them.

The inventory game is clever use of game mechanics, and the cap is perfect were it is. Now stop complaining!

code65536 · April 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

You did know that when transmutation was on PTS, Zenimax nerfed the amount of crystals from 250 too 200, because they did not feel that it was right that someone could just farm 5 off-trait items and instantly transmute them.

That is an incorrect history of the transmutation system on the PTS. The cap had always been 200, from the first day of PTS. Initially, it was 40 crystals to transmute, so you could transmute 5 items with your ESO+ cap. Later in the PTS, they substantially increased the ease with which you can obtain crystals (crystals were quite difficult to obtain during the first week of PTS, and most notably, they were not readily available to PvPers), and to compensate, they increased the amount needed to transmute to 50. But they did not increase the cap.

Kikke · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

You did know that when transmutation was on PTS, Zenimax nerfed the amount of crystals from 250 too 200, because they did not feel that it was right that someone could just farm 5 off-trait items and instantly transmute them.

That is an incorrect history of the transmutation system on the PTS. The cap had always been 200, from the first day of PTS. Initially, it was 40 crystals to transmute, so you could transmute 5 items with your ESO+ cap. Later in the PTS, they substantially increased the ease with which you can obtain crystals (crystals were quite difficult to obtain during the first week of PTS, and most notably, they were not readily available to PvPers), and to compensate, they increased the amount needed to transmute to 50. But they did not increase the cap.

ah, thats right xD just remember that we could do 5 items on pts xP

Guarlet · April 2018

This thread again?

I give up.

code65536 · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

This thread again?

I give up.

Just answer me one question: Given that crystals well beyond the cap can be hoarded by simply leaving them inside their containers, what does the cap accomplish beyond annoying players?

Surely if you have the time to pop into this thread to post what you did, you have the time to answer this one simple question. I look forward to what you have to say.

Tasear · April 2018

It works well.

We should work for more crystals for a full gear set. If there's too many them get rid of what you don't need . The crystals thing disappearing is a bug though.

Vaoh · April 2018

It creates an extra incentive for ESO+. Same reason there is a cap on furnishing slots that is so low.

ESO+ incentives.

Guarlet · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

This thread again?

I give up.

Just answer me one question: Given that crystals well beyond the cap can be hoarded by simply leaving them inside their containers, what does the cap accomplish beyond annoying players?

Surely if you have the time to pop into this thread to post what you did, you have the time to answer this one simple question. I look forward to what you have to say.

Obviously ESO can't stop people from hoarding altogether, but because hoarding takes up precious bag space, it discourages people from doing it. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

STEVIL · April 2018

"The cap on the number of transmute crystals that you can hold must be eliminated."

I got to the 200 crystal max during the anniversary box drops too.

code65536 · April 2018

Guarlet wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

This thread again?

I give up.

Just answer me one question: Given that crystals well beyond the cap can be hoarded by simply leaving them inside their containers, what does the cap accomplish beyond annoying players?

Surely if you have the time to pop into this thread to post what you did, you have the time to answer this one simple question. I look forward to what you have to say.

Obviously ESO can't stop people from hoarding altogether, but because hoarding takes up precious bag space, it discourages people from doing it. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

So what you're saying is that it's a system designed to annoy players and to discourage them from collecting and retaining the rewards obtained from playing the game. Thank you for the clarification.

Guarlet · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

This thread again?

I give up.

Just answer me one question: Given that crystals well beyond the cap can be hoarded by simply leaving them inside their containers, what does the cap accomplish beyond annoying players?

Surely if you have the time to pop into this thread to post what you did, you have the time to answer this one simple question. I look forward to what you have to say.

Obviously ESO can't stop people from hoarding altogether, but because hoarding takes up precious bag space, it discourages people from doing it. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

So what you're saying is that it's a system designed to annoy players and to discourage them from collecting and retaining the rewards obtained from playing the game. Thank you for the clarification.

Thanks, that's not what I said at all. Nice try though.

They don't want people to stockpile tons of crystals and be like "ok I'm basically done forever." They want people to keep on farming crystals and playing the content in the game. Your bag space being eaten up is a penalty that discourages you from hoarding crystals-- either you can deal with the aggravation of having no bag space, or you can toss them and farm crystals naturally like they likely intend.

Look, it's annoying to me too, because I also like hoarding them in my bag. But if you can't discern the purpose behind the system other than "lolool it's there to annoy players" I really don't know what to say to you anymore.

ErMurazor · April 2018

500 eso+ 250 otherwise

Banana · April 2018

Give them to me. I get frig all

Slick_007 · April 2018

STEVIL wrote: »

"The cap on the number of transmute crystals that you can hold must be eliminated."

I got to the 200 crystal max during the anniversary box drops too.

and yet i have around 900 currently. the caps are fine

Valsheres · April 2018

I smell good business opportunity here:

Increase transmute crystals hoarding capacity now available in the crown-store near you.
Get your cap increased by 50 for only 5000 crowns today!!!!