JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

You know... most things written here are mostly bout 'dem pvp-ers'
but as said before... there is not much screaming about this. And that aint because there is no reason for it... Ots because you lot made even trying to use wardens so hard, unrewarding and downright obsolete, that noone wants to even play them.
So here is my piece... what could one change. And am PvE person...
So, one thing needs to be done before we approach what could change. And that is what mag wardens run around that other classes similar to them hold, which are Sorcs and DKs from perspective of being element specific and unique in the matter

• DKs run around fire damage.
• Fire staff bonus is 8% more single target damage.
• Heavy attacks with fire staff also deal more damage on single target
• Blockade deals more damage on burning targets
• They have fire damage bonuses and burning effect extensions
• Engulfing flames provide further 10% fire damage
• Multiple powerful dots based on heavily buffed fire damage.
• Sorcs Run around lightning.
• Lightning staff bonus is 8% more Aoe DMG
• Heavy attacks with lightning deal 108% or so aoe dmg around the main target
• Blockade sets off-balance giving a chance for a great damage boost
• They also have dual execution ability from both passive and mage's fury
• There are at least 4 Abilities that sorc's bonus lightning damage passive benefit from
• Their lightning based skills deal much higher damage
• Very powerful cheap ultimates
• Wardens run around ice damage
• Ice staff has 0 damage bonus passives
• Their class ice damage buff of 6% is only ever so useful on 2 abilities they hold. one of them ultimate
• Blockade Immobilizes. No damage potential from it
• Mediocre damage ultimates

MagWardens are not bad only because of their abilities alone
they are also bad because they run around an elemental damage that reaps little to 0 bonuses from being used.
Ice staves have very little dps utility. And as destruction staves of an element a class is heavily affected by, they should also have some efficient damage bonus
For instance, from a fancy perspective of what ice magic is...

• Give Heavy ice attacks 6% more crit damage.
• Give ice staff ancient knowledge bonus for all single traget abilities to deal 6% more crit damage
• Make Ice staff cause blocking cost magicka, a default thing without need of using a passive for it.
• Perhaps even make destructive ice touch have the same passive as ancient knowledge has, for being slotted but a bit less effective, removing it from Ancient knowledge

And then the class abilities

• Make Impaling shards scale from magicka and spell damage by default and make the winter's revenge deal say 80% (Changeable number)more damage to chars under 25% as a similar story to steel tornado
• Make Crystalized slab scale from max magicka and spell damage and increase the base damage of it at least a bit

This is what I think anyways. People might get some better ideas how to and where to correct me.
But I firmly believe that ice staff is much to blame for warden's mediocrity along its lack of proper ice skills

I think the cliff racer, fletcher flies, and deep fissure should all be ice skills. Up the damage passive to 12% ice damage. Make deep fissure root everyone it hits. These buffs and warden would be much more in line with other classes. DK has effective root and 2 different stuns, nightblade gets everything..., templar gets a couple stuns, sorc gets root and stun, warden gets a tanking root? no stun? seriously? ......

Torbschka wrote: »

There are so many suggestions in this thread, yet they didnt make any change at all..(this is the case for all class es though) and come up with boring things like removing the stun and adding major breach...

OT: is this the only thread or is there a closed beta thread with the same title, since I scared that there will be a single post at all and not sure ZOS will havsa look at this thread.

Warden threads have been filled with feedback since before the class launched last year. We tried to tell ZOS how bad the class was on the PTS, but they refused to listen. They've refused to listen for 12 months now.

Magicka warden is numerically the weakest class in the game. It's so easy to test. But ZOS doesn't care.

Nice nerf to magden.

It's crap in both PvE and PvP now.
I'll just play sorc, since you love it so much...

Magicka Wardens could be interesting staff-wielding healer/tank combos for casual 4-person groupings.

• Frost Cloak and Vines fit this paradigm well, being somewhat unique ways to aid group survival.
• Shalks, in at least one morph and perhaps both, would need to again have BOTH Major Breach and Fracture, so that support Wardens also have a unique way to contribute to group DPS and, even more important, can try to fill the essential role of tanking without requiring sword-and-board.
• The somewhat imprecise timing of the heals from Seeds and Trees fit this paradigm well.

It would be better for any non-1HS tanking ideas if the Undaunted taunt opened up earlier in the skill tree; magden is no exception. But assuming that's fixed, the "free" taunts that come from heavy attacks you need to perform anyway could be directed at adds/trash mobs. So the whole model could make a kind of sense.

Warden

Animal Companions
1) Deep Fissure (Scorch morph): This morph no longer stuns the closest enemy hit. It now applies Major Breach to all enemies hit for 5 seconds.
2) Subterranean Assault (Scorch morph): This morph no longer applies Major Breach to enemies hit – it only applies Major Fracture. The duration of Major Fracture has been reduced to 5 seconds, down from 10 seconds.

Green Balance
3)Bursting Vines (Nature’s Grasp morph): This morph now grants 10 Ultimate when used on an ally under 60% Health, and added a 4 second cooldown.
4)Nature’s Grasp: This ability and the Nature’s Embrace morph now grant 3 Ultimate when the healing over time completes.

Winter’s Embrace
5)Arctic Wind: Increased the initial heal done by this ability and its morphs to 12% of your Max Health from 10%.
6)Crystallized Shield: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240 Magicka from 2701.
7)Frozen Gate: This ability and its morphs now deal Frost Damage to the enemy when the trap is triggered.

---

1 + 2: The debuff destribution sounds reasonable. Taking the stun away does not.

3+4: Good wardens can be recognized already by their proper usage of that skill. Bad wardens STILL won´t use it. So you are increasing the class difficulty here. I like it, but I´m not sure it it´s what you are intending.

5: Make it a real damage skill or something else. We have enough self healing options.

6: ok

7: ok, but no one will be using it anyway, given the Silver Leash changes. Increase the damage so it can be used as a real mine.

ADDITIONALLY:

The bear slot problem: Give the bear a grace period (like, 10 seconds) before it despawns, so that we can at least use the back bar for buffing when we only have it on one bar. It is not worth giving up 2 Ultimate skill bars, nor ever will be.

This has been asked since the morrowind beta, and maybe 50% of the whole class feedback is centred on it. Maybe it´s time to listen this time.

1) Warden has one issue if you want to play it as a DD - it just has not very many damage skills. So you either have absurdly overloaded skills or you have lackluster ones. ZOS chose the latter way. There is no way out of this dilemma other than a complete class overhaul.

2) Buffs will have to come. After all ZOS wants to sell the class in the crown store in the future.

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Magicka wardens still need some love, though this patch is extremely good for magicka builds. I was parsing 35k+ with an Argonian magden with 5 Julianos, 5 Mechinical Acuity, and 2 Ilambris. Could be higher with an Altmer. Though, they're still behind other ranged dps. I was hitting higher numbers on sorc and templar.

It's good for supporters, and not even that much. In pvp the struggle is real.

"This will be a buff if you do not play a warden in pvp"

Personally, I would say that the warden in Magick PvE aspect needs a cost reduction for deep fishure. If u going to try any single target dps u can't use that skill because it's to cost intensive. The bear is relatively good for single traget in comparison to other ultis but the mag bear causes a lot of buggs like when u rez and u are interrupted the player can't be rezzed it even revive. So the recasting has to be taken away and I would say that it need some other adjustments like more health, more aoe dmg or just single slot ability
The winter ulti with 8% more magickal needs huge improvements because the range of the buff is too small and that 8% are useless - they can't help buffing up to the DPS with the bear

So no pet wardens need a lot improvements
In addition to general improvements on the magickal warden dps

-deep fishure cost reduction
-fetcher injection needs a great buff like increasing the dmg every cast by 20% up to 5 times or more
-the cliff racer could be good if there are also some adjustments like adding a execute to it where it deals more DPS or getting a new effect
-the falcon for DPS is also quite useless so this ability needs something extra like when u use it u get a buff or some other skills change a little bit or get something else to it (could be interesting tbh but also the problem would be that u don't have that skill place maybe)
-the winters revenge skill is strong atm but could get a small buff
-the passive effect of the ice ulti could also be removed and stuck to a animal ability
-changing the ice ulti then to a ranges ability without the dmg reduction buff and make them competitive to the bear with adding some spell dmg or so

The general problem of the warden dps is the lack on DPS skills so the class skills need to be effective but the currently available skills aren't effetive atm...so I tried to get ideas to improve the currently available skills
....

As a tank in PvE, I still, miss the emergency heal all the other classes now have. Nobody cares about the 2% every 2 sec for 10% tbh so this could be 5% every 2 seconds for 6seconds and increase the initial heal to 20%
The shield coat increase isn't that bad because the shield was a little bit over performing instead to other classes

I really hope that they will take a look on the warden community even if we are just a few people here... I would really love to see any improvements after the time the warden is live because I always loved to play mag wardens. I like the combination of skills and the theme but atm I'm just frustrated with the dmg output...that can't really compare to the higher dps if u play sorc or night blade...that's sad tbh

No stun whatsoever is pretty brutal for PvP. It's gonna sting even harder than the loss of stun on Frags hurt Sorc, because at least there you have Streak and Rune Cage. And that nerf hurt Sorc like fark.

Personally I was already using Lightning Staff, because it buffed important skills for Warden (Ice Comet, Northern Storm, Deep Fissure) with its Ancient Knowledge passive. So adaptation would involve using Reach from Master's Lightning Staff for stun and damage.

Most likely dropping Birds as a consequence to make space. Using entrapping poisons for rooting.

Overall damage might go up and but killing people is gonna become harder.

I see the extra notes about Bird traveling faster in the Patch notes, I need to download the PTS and test its speed, see if its fast enough now.

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

"Warden
Screaming Cliff Racer: Increased the travel speed of the Cliff Racer by approximately 33% to make up for the fact that it cannot be dodged."


WHAT IS THIS MADNESS ... So magdens are loosing timed burst as well as the only useable CC ????

this is a shocker ! really

Surly it would of been better to leave the cliff racer time alone and add a CC to it? so its like javelin or something.... anything but this

What is this noise? Where did you see this?

Edit: wow just saw where this was posted. Seriously? ZOS hates wardens. Although thus will make it a better spamable, it does nothing for the fact wardens have no cc so it will difficult to land any sort of burst combination. How about giving them some sort of stun FFS.

Who is our warden community rep?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

"This will be a buff if you do not play a warden in pvp"

It's not a buff in PvE either where you get 100% major breach uptime from ele drain.

It is a buff for PvP, it’s just that the nerf was bigger than the buff

I give up, after removing the undodgeable part of birds I was sure they could compensate...

Then I thought they would add the stun to something more useful...

I had hoped artic blast would be useful outside of one spec...

I was hoping gripping shards could have an increase in radius...

Definitely think Permafrost should be unblockable (minimum the stun)...

Nerp.

Nerp. Nerp. Nerp.

So... Mag Warden is gonna be my RP fun guy thing

It's the lack of CC and only a handful of damage skills. Liike what are we supposed to do? Tank or heal apparently? Oh wait, they nerfed all the healing skills, and made the others insanely hard to use by requiring players to be hit, i.e. vines, or targeting another player, i.e. nature's grasp OR you have to hit the skill twice, i.e. healing seed..... what a joke lol