Fatigue

Saturn · April 2018

I personally don't participate much in these events, unless there are rewards that particularly speak to me, like some mementos or costumes, but I know people who have been grinding nonstop since this event started though, and I know some of them have severe gaming addictions. That said, addictions like these are yours to deal with. If you think you have a problem you should seek help. I think you should be grown enough to accept the responsiblity for how much you play, and you should know when you reach a limit. The purpose of some events is to overwhelm players with things to do (though in this case it's just done through mean RNG, and not actual content). You have to know that you aren't meant to collect all the motifs, or that if you plan to do so it will take a serious investment of time. In the face of this I think you should take the time to determine if it is actually worth it to spend so much time farming event drops, especially when compared to the impacts it will have on your real life.

If I were to farm these motifs I would do it the easier way by building up my gold funds and buying the motifs (at the end of the event when they are cheapest) after seeing how many I was able to farm without spending all my available time on farming.
Another possibility is teaming up with several people, and thereby trade between you the various motifs that you have doubles of in exchange for some of theirs that you do not have.

I will make claims about some things in ESO encouraging addictions, such as the Crown Crates, but in this case I believe the onus lies with the individual and not the developers.

ZeroXFF · April 2018

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I agree with OP. With these events giving rewards that are very expensive or even impossible to get outside of the event that are useful and sometimes even required to complete other content (still getting hollowjack master writs occasionally even though there is no way to get the pages or style material for them currently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they added worm cult writs too), it forces me to play the game much more than I would like to do and in ways I don't enjoy.

If this happens for a few days only (without service interruptions and accordingly adjusted drop rates) and not more than 3-4 times a year, it is fun, but when we have 3 events back to back with one of them lasting almost 2 weeks, it gets tedious.

After this event I will probably take a break because I'm burnt out on the game already, and in a week's time it will only get worse. It's times like this when I'm happy I don't pay for a time limited subscription and can actually choose when and how much I play without feeling like I'm missing out or wasting money on something I don't use. The events are interfering with that.

you can buy them in guild stores..... pro tip there.

No sh!t, Sherlock. Are you suggesting I should buy the worm cult too that will be in the 300k+ per page range in half a year? That argument is the same as saying that you can still get common soul gems because "you can buy them in guild stores". Now imagine those common soul gems were required to do new content. That's the situation with these limited time motifs being required by new master writs.

Kanar · April 2018

Sorry OP

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406113/recent-eu-server-issues-anniversary-event-extension#latest

Kodrac · April 2018

Kanar wrote: »

Sorry OP
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406113/recent-eu-server-issues-anniversary-event-extension#latest

Well, this way he can take his time and not rush.

waitwhat · April 2018

I think the important thing here is to recognize when we, as players, are being played, and to resist the peer pressure that makes us play ourselves.

The Worm Cult motif is a lure to induce the dynamic you're describing, but it's the peer pressure that's sustaining the fatigue dynamic.

A lot of ESO feeds on making us feel left out. Animation cancelling/weaving, end-game DLC trial progressions, emperor pushes, and etc. are all things designed to exclude players by locking achievements and status behind undue tedium (not only for the skills developed but also for the political relationships required) rather than enjoyable activities.

The solution is to just walk away. Not from the game, but from the lure and from the people who sustain the peer pressure. None of it is worth it.

geonsocal · April 2018

i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming...

ugh...

Eiagra · April 2018

While opinions on this topic will vary, I believe the OP has put forth a thoughtful post regarding things they have either experienced or observed. I've seen a few counter-posts that come off as dismissive or try to invalidate it for various reasons, generally revolving around willpower, prioritizing, or time management skills.

While those points are also fair, one should be very careful of dismissing topics revolving around psychology and the human mind. One human is not every human. One mind is not every mind. It may not be prudent to presume that one person's mind functions the same way as all minds, or that just because one person has conquered or resisted a thing, that others can easily do so. To each their own arena and battle.

My hope is conversation regarding this topic is fruitful and insightful.

method__01 · April 2018

its exhausting but im determine to finish the event with the full book in my library without buy pages
if i feel sleepy,i stop for 1-2 hours and back on-helps a lot that after holiday season i work only a few hours daily
so i can focus to game,better results if you plan your activities f.e getting a writ from crow at CWC for cookware and dishes
i immediately stop,log on to my n/b whos waiting near writ board,do his daily's and go for looting,bank it and continue with next or a wb who cant be soloed-log of but stay in area doing other daily and watching chat for ppl ask for help on same boss
-these helps you reduce time and feeling more relaxed to continue

Asardes · April 2018

Well, one day I got fed up of farming Morrowind motifs and bought 'em all from guild traders within 6 hours. It cost me 3.7M gold and 2.2M AP (Militant Ordinator). You can always do the same with Worm cult during the remainder of the event and even shortly after the end. I'd rather pay a few hundred thousands of my imaginary in game currency - I have heaps of it playing the game in an enjoyable, or at least not overtly irritating manner - and save a few hours of repetitive, boring, frustrating "farming", and instead enjoy things I like in game, because like doing trials & PvP, or just do things outside the game. By this point I also got fed up with actively farming Worm Cult, so I'll stick to the writs, which are minimal effort, till the end of the event. I've heard that they added an extra week to compensate for the server trouble they've been having in the last few days.

HappyLittleTree · April 2018

The first few days i tried doing every daily i can get, now i only do daily crafting writs and if i don't get the full wc motif it's fine. don't push yourself so hard

Beardimus · April 2018

In short, ALL grinding leads to disinterest and boredom.

I have no idea why people do it. From xp to events.

This type of event is so ideal for casual play in my mind. I do what I normally do, 6 writs and enjoy my free stuff. Simple. The idea of grinding away on content I dislike that will 'burn' me out on a game I love is idiotic.

People are greedy and people get obsessed. That's them not the game. Half dont even intend tp run worm they just collecting it like Pokémon

Asardes · April 2018

DarkScatha wrote: »

The first few days i tried doing every daily i can get, now i only do daily crafting writs and if i don't get the full wc motif it's fine. don't push yourself so hard

I might make an analogy with bodily functions: if you push it too hard, it's probably crap

DanteYoda · April 2018

Seriously... Self control.. get some people..

DoctorESO · April 2018

carljokl wrote: »

The second in command for my main guild has been on voice chat. He was audibly exhausted trying to keep on doing writs on his alts around the shifts for his job while others are advising him to just go to bed.

Sounds miserable. I get tired just reading that!

code65536 · April 2018

I know someone who has opened 90+ boxes per day every day of the event, and he has gotten only 4 or 5 WC chapters.

The problem is the drop rate. For the New Life Festival, for example, Skinchanger dropped fairly frequently. Someone who participated in the event on just one character could expect to complete the motif without even participating every day.

In contrast, Worm calls for an exhausting grind involving a small army of alts to have a reasonable chance of completion.

Why do this? ZOS should've increased the drop of Worm substantially. And decreased the drops of the other motifs. Worm is limited-time. You can go into Cradle of Shadows any day of the year to farm Silken Ring. There is no ticking clock on the acquisition of other motifs, so people can go and get them at their own pace, on their own schedule. Not with Worm.

This event has also had the effect of severely depressing the market for regular motifs. If ZOS had made Worm drop more like Skinchanger and made the other motifs collectively drop like Worm, then the impact on the economy would be much smaller, and there would be much less pressure that people would feel. Instead, they did the opposite of what they needed to do--other motifs drop like candy and worm is rare, which adds stress to this year's event and devalues other content.

The extra week should help a lot with the stress part. But will make the devaluation part a bit more acute.

VaranisArano · April 2018

Saturn wrote: »

I personally don't participate much in these events, unless there are rewards that particularly speak to me, like some mementos or costumes, but I know people who have been grinding nonstop since this event started though, and I know some of them have severe gaming addictions. That said, addictions like these are yours to deal with. If you think you have a problem you should seek help. I think you should be grown enough to accept the responsiblity for how much you play, and you should know when you reach a limit. The purpose of some events is to overwhelm players with things to do (though in this case it's just done through mean RNG, and not actual content). You have to know that you aren't meant to collect all the motifs, or that if you plan to do so it will take a serious investment of time. In the face of this I think you should take the time to determine if it is actually worth it to spend so much time farming event drops, especially when compared to the impacts it will have on your real life.

If I were to farm these motifs I would do it the easier way by building up my gold funds and buying the motifs (at the end of the event when they are cheapest) after seeing how many I was able to farm without spending all my available time on farming.
Another possibility is teaming up with several people, and thereby trade between you the various motifs that you have doubles of in exchange for some of theirs that you do not have.

I will make claims about some things in ESO encouraging addictions, such as the Crown Crates, but in this case I believe the onus lies with the individual and not the developers.

All of the other events have been such that I could get all of the limited time events just with normal play of the event activities.

code65536 wrote: »

I know someone who has opened 90+ boxes per day every day of the event, and he has gotten only 4 or 5 WC chapters.

The problem is the drop rate. For the New Life Festival, for example, Skinchanger dropped fairly frequently. Someone who participated in the event on just one character could expect to complete the motif without even participating every day.

In contrast, Worm calls for an exhausting grind involving a small army of alts to have a reasonable chance of completion.

Why do this? ZOS should've increased the drop of Worm substantially. And decreased the drops of the other motifs. Worm is limited-time. You can go into Cradle of Shadows any day of the year to farm Silken Ring. There is no ticking clock on the acquisition of other motifs, so people can go and get them at their own pace, on their own schedule. Not with Worm.

This event has also had the effect of severely depressing the market for regular motifs. If ZOS had made Worm drop more like Skinchanger and made the other motifs collectively drop like Worm, then the impact on the economy would be much smaller, and there would be much less pressure that people would feel. Instead, they did the opposite of what they needed to do--other motifs drop like candy and worm is rare, which adds stress to this year's event and devalues other content.

The extra week should help a lot with the stress part. But will make the devaluation part a bit more acute.

The devaluation of other motifs is part of the goal. Motifs were inflated with the introduction of the Outfit System, so this is ZOS leveling a playing field a little for new players who otherwise could only acquire those motifs at high prices. ZOS likes to level the playing field for new players and this is right up their alley.

deleted008293 · April 2018

I agree with the OP here.

While nobody will force you to play the game I still think there should be a limit on how many "actions" a player can do in a day/week to avoid burning himself or herself out, in case that player doesn't have some bounders. But at same point I advice against it.

Having a good variation of events always help choosing some of them but if someone decide to go full nuke and do all quests with each of his characters... he or she might easily burn out. Especially in case of time limited events such as the above one where some people might want to profit 100% from it.

Speaking about the subject this could also relate to other activities such as dungeon delving and trials where some raiders do spend a considerable amount of time.

This is a very delicate subject that that could lead to a lot of debate especially in the raiding communities in case the number of actions a player can do such as how many times he can join a dungeon or trial or time he can spend into a dungeon or trial is limited considerably.

DHale · April 2018

You take care of yourself and I will taker care of me. Don’t blame a video game on your addiction, time management, or pychological issues. Certainly they are real but they are yours play or don’t play... that’s on you.

NoTimeToWait · April 2018

The issue of any "self-restraint" is that it is stressful activity, because you have to override your internal motivation mechanism, which could be bad for motivation in general. And self-restraint in my opinion is a bad way to resolve the issue OP has mentioned.

For me the best way is to reevaluate the priorities, so that disrupting activities are getting lowest priority. Thus, I just switch my motivation to another target without the need to suppress motivation itself. I don't need to cancel the need itself, it just gets such a low priority that I'd rather spend my time on something else.

The last time I suppressed my motivation in gaming ended with me not enjoying any kind of games for around 5 years (and I had to specifically search things I like in games to be able to even play them with my friends).

Lord_Ninka · April 2018

A lot of people here ignore the part where OP acknowledges that nobody's forcing anybody to stay up late and stuff and almost rage about how you should just take responsibility for your own actions and watch out for yourself - and I agree that we all should. But does that really mean OP doesn't have a point? Can't we try to take responsibility for our own actions and at the same time have others - ZOS in this case - think and care about the our vulnerabilities? I think it's possible to show consideration towards the fact that some people have difficulty making the right choices for themselves without taking away personal responsibility.

Besides, it takes some of the fun out of the game if you can't resist the temptation to overdo an event, and I'd say that's a very valid concern, and one that's relevant to ZOS themselves too. If for no moral reason, then at least because they don't want customers to overdo it so much that they end up quitting the game entirely.

Personally I like the occasional event such as the current, but I do also share OP's concern. It's always harder to find playmates just after these events, and I reckon that's probably because a lot of people actually get a bit tired of the game after being so caught up trying to grind all those event rewards. That's why I much prefer when the unique rewards aren't too hard to get and the event isn't going on for long enough to really tire people.

Marginis · April 2018

geonsocal wrote: »

i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming, i will resist farming...

ugh...

I think it should have been "It all makes sense... meow."

I feel like this was a missed opportunity.

greylox · April 2018

Just chill, if something isn't fun don't do it.

Lake · April 2018

Some games like TERA pop up an annoying "YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR X HOURS...PLEASE LOOK AFTER YOUR HEALTH!" style warning on the hour... which is swiftly ignored regardless.

BaylorCorvette · April 2018

This is just a game..

Florial · April 2018

I can see where the OP is coming from. These events tend to suck me in as well since I'm a completionist at heart. I'm not concerned about peer pressure however I am an obsessive motif collector and am aiming to complete all the motifs on my main character. I've been playing many more hours than I normally play. I was happy and a bit sad to see the event stretched out for another week.

For me it is important to find balance---not blow off real life things, not play marathon hours, get enough sleep, etc.

code65536 · April 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

I personally don't participate much in these events, unless there are rewards that particularly speak to me, like some mementos or costumes, but I know people who have been grinding nonstop since this event started though, and I know some of them have severe gaming addictions. That said, addictions like these are yours to deal with. If you think you have a problem you should seek help. I think you should be grown enough to accept the responsiblity for how much you play, and you should know when you reach a limit. The purpose of some events is to overwhelm players with things to do (though in this case it's just done through mean RNG, and not actual content). You have to know that you aren't meant to collect all the motifs, or that if you plan to do so it will take a serious investment of time. In the face of this I think you should take the time to determine if it is actually worth it to spend so much time farming event drops, especially when compared to the impacts it will have on your real life.

If I were to farm these motifs I would do it the easier way by building up my gold funds and buying the motifs (at the end of the event when they are cheapest) after seeing how many I was able to farm without spending all my available time on farming.
Another possibility is teaming up with several people, and thereby trade between you the various motifs that you have doubles of in exchange for some of theirs that you do not have.

I will make claims about some things in ESO encouraging addictions, such as the Crown Crates, but in this case I believe the onus lies with the individual and not the developers.

All of the other events have been such that I could get all of the limited time events just with normal play of the event activities.

code65536 wrote: »

I know someone who has opened 90+ boxes per day every day of the event, and he has gotten only 4 or 5 WC chapters.

The problem is the drop rate. For the New Life Festival, for example, Skinchanger dropped fairly frequently. Someone who participated in the event on just one character could expect to complete the motif without even participating every day.

In contrast, Worm calls for an exhausting grind involving a small army of alts to have a reasonable chance of completion.

Why do this? ZOS should've increased the drop of Worm substantially. And decreased the drops of the other motifs. Worm is limited-time. You can go into Cradle of Shadows any day of the year to farm Silken Ring. There is no ticking clock on the acquisition of other motifs, so people can go and get them at their own pace, on their own schedule. Not with Worm.

This event has also had the effect of severely depressing the market for regular motifs. If ZOS had made Worm drop more like Skinchanger and made the other motifs collectively drop like Worm, then the impact on the economy would be much smaller, and there would be much less pressure that people would feel. Instead, they did the opposite of what they needed to do--other motifs drop like candy and worm is rare, which adds stress to this year's event and devalues other content.

The extra week should help a lot with the stress part. But will make the devaluation part a bit more acute.

The devaluation of other motifs is part of the goal. Motifs were inflated with the introduction of the Outfit System, so this is ZOS leveling a playing field a little for new players who otherwise could only acquire those motifs at high prices. ZOS likes to level the playing field for new players and this is right up their alley.

This does not level the playing field. The people getting the most motifs are people like me, farming writs with three accounts and bagging 150 boxes per day. I don't need catchup. The "new players" you refer to have one or two characters and are doing maybe 15 boxes per day. This isn't leveling the playing field--this is increasing the gap between the haves and have-nots.

If ZOS wanted to level the playing field, they would increase the drop rates of older motifs. They did that with things like Daedric/Barbaric/etc. But all the other chaptered motifs have retained the same drop rate. And a number of old chaptered motifs had drop rates reduced. See the Dragon Bones patch notes--there's a whole list of motifs that became rarer when Outfitting came out. In some cases, ridiculously so. For Dro-m'Athra, for example, I had cleared vMoL over half a dozen times since the DB patch and have never gotten a motif out of the weekly coffers.

If ZOS was really interested in "leveling the playing field", the anniversary event is not the way to do it. Reducing the drop rates on old motifs is not the way to do it. Dro-m'Athra and Celestial, in particular, had their drop rates completely decimated... no big deal for old-timers like me who have multiple full sets of both already farmed out, but for new players? They got screwed so hard.

ZOS should:

Increase WC drop rate to Skinchanger levels. This is a limited-time event. A high drop rate is appropriate for something that you can't farm at will any day of the year.
Decrease the drop rates of other motifs from the event.
Increase the general non-event drop rates of older motifs.

VaranisArano · April 2018

code65536 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

I personally don't participate much in these events, unless there are rewards that particularly speak to me, like some mementos or costumes, but I know people who have been grinding nonstop since this event started though, and I know some of them have severe gaming addictions. That said, addictions like these are yours to deal with. If you think you have a problem you should seek help. I think you should be grown enough to accept the responsiblity for how much you play, and you should know when you reach a limit. The purpose of some events is to overwhelm players with things to do (though in this case it's just done through mean RNG, and not actual content). You have to know that you aren't meant to collect all the motifs, or that if you plan to do so it will take a serious investment of time. In the face of this I think you should take the time to determine if it is actually worth it to spend so much time farming event drops, especially when compared to the impacts it will have on your real life.

If I were to farm these motifs I would do it the easier way by building up my gold funds and buying the motifs (at the end of the event when they are cheapest) after seeing how many I was able to farm without spending all my available time on farming.
Another possibility is teaming up with several people, and thereby trade between you the various motifs that you have doubles of in exchange for some of theirs that you do not have.

I will make claims about some things in ESO encouraging addictions, such as the Crown Crates, but in this case I believe the onus lies with the individual and not the developers.

All of the other events have been such that I could get all of the limited time events just with normal play of the event activities.

code65536 wrote: »

I know someone who has opened 90+ boxes per day every day of the event, and he has gotten only 4 or 5 WC chapters.

The problem is the drop rate. For the New Life Festival, for example, Skinchanger dropped fairly frequently. Someone who participated in the event on just one character could expect to complete the motif without even participating every day.

In contrast, Worm calls for an exhausting grind involving a small army of alts to have a reasonable chance of completion.

Why do this? ZOS should've increased the drop of Worm substantially. And decreased the drops of the other motifs. Worm is limited-time. You can go into Cradle of Shadows any day of the year to farm Silken Ring. There is no ticking clock on the acquisition of other motifs, so people can go and get them at their own pace, on their own schedule. Not with Worm.

This event has also had the effect of severely depressing the market for regular motifs. If ZOS had made Worm drop more like Skinchanger and made the other motifs collectively drop like Worm, then the impact on the economy would be much smaller, and there would be much less pressure that people would feel. Instead, they did the opposite of what they needed to do--other motifs drop like candy and worm is rare, which adds stress to this year's event and devalues other content.

The extra week should help a lot with the stress part. But will make the devaluation part a bit more acute.

The devaluation of other motifs is part of the goal. Motifs were inflated with the introduction of the Outfit System, so this is ZOS leveling a playing field a little for new players who otherwise could only acquire those motifs at high prices. ZOS likes to level the playing field for new players and this is right up their alley.

This does not level the playing field. The people getting the most motifs are people like me, farming writs with three accounts and bagging 150 boxes per day. I don't need catchup. The "new players" you refer to have one or two characters and are doing maybe 15 boxes per day. This isn't leveling the playing field--this is increasing the gap between the haves and have-nots.

If ZOS wanted to level the playing field, they would increase the drop rates of older motifs. They did that with things like Daedric/Barbaric/etc. But all the other chaptered motifs have retained the same drop rate. And a number of old chaptered motifs had drop rates reduced. See the Dragon Bones patch notes--there's a whole list of motifs that became rarer when Outfitting came out. In some cases, ridiculously so. For Dro-m'Athra, for example, I had cleared vMoL over half a dozen times since the DB patch and have never gotten a motif out of the weekly coffers.

If ZOS was really interested in "leveling the playing field", the anniversary event is not the way to do it. Reducing the drop rates on old motifs is not the way to do it. Dro-m'Athra and Celestial, in particular, had their drop rates completely decimated... no big deal for old-timers like me who have multiple full sets of both already farmed out, but for new players? They got screwed so hard.

ZOS should:
Increase WC drop rate to Skinchanger levels. This is a limited-time event. A high drop rate is appropriate for something that you can't farm at will any day of the year.

Decrease the drop rates of other motifs from the event.

Increase the general non-event drop rates of older motifs.

So my point was specifically about the devaluation of motifs. Motif prices were higher, now they are dropping, putting them more in the range of players who might not have been able to get them before.

Or in Natch Potes language: This is a nerf if (like me) you own most of the motifs and were planning on selling these event motifs for tons of money to add to the money you already have. This is a buff if you don't have most of the motifs nor millions of gold to spend on acquiring motifs at Outfit-System-inflated prices (aka, most of my friends).

But I generally agree with your suggestions for what ZOS should do.

Emmagoldman · April 2018

Whew, you have an extension!

Another thing

Before events, its helpful to read patch notes and plan. For example, if theres a motif or tradeables put some money away and gather mats.

For summerset, there are different types of ring mats available. Some use ap and master writs. I want to have around 500 writs and 1 mil ap. I will probably sell at first and spend later when prices drop.

A little planning around these events goes a long way!

JWKe · April 2018

That's why i just hit the baseline of completing the crafting quests which takes only like 5 minutes at most on each of my guys.

carljokl · April 2018

Is it safe to come back in? Please...I don't want to be slapped anymore! </petulant>

I have seen mention of an extension but the official event page shows the same end date as before.

Now there are other threads complaining that the motif drops are "Ruining the Economy". I am really trying to have sympathy and put myself in their shoes. I can help but imagine the type of players most upset that the value of the motifs has dropped are the same ones who are very end game players who are already sat on vast amounts of gold. Probably the ones who already have these motifs so were rubbing their hands at the prospect of selling the motifs they already know for millions to add to the millions they have already. Some who's main focus is to make as much money as possible.

In the end people can play the game to be what they want it to be. If they want to play it as a competition to become as rich as possible that is their choice. Perhaps the drive to keep making as much as possible can be addictive too. If exploiting the game economy is part of an enjoyment of the game then isn't responding to changes in the economy part of the challenge too?

In my case I see the other motifs as a nice little bonus. I would not be upset if the drop rates on these were reduced as long as I know there is a way to get them later. The only one I am concerned about is Worm Cult because so far there has been no confirmation these will ever be available again after the event.