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Sorcerer Summerset Changes Discussion
-
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).Edited by Ragnaroek93 on April 6, 2018 7:42PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.Edited by Irylia on April 6, 2018 8:37PM2 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭@ToRelax
We need more than that. I honestly don't see the Psijic skill line offering us much, and I'm pretty sure you have to slot a skill to get the block/shield passive. If were using undo on the back bar, we wont get the passive on the front. I'm really not seeing anything to be happy about except maybe a front bar only bound armor and the staff changes.
Also, meteor does not empower itself. Cast inner light and check your tooltips. They all get bigger except meteor.
You cannot cast another mages guild ability and expect the tooltip to read or behave as it's empowered.
Meteor empowers itself on cast
, try without the passive unlocked then again after it's unlocked.
The initial impact will increase.
Edited by SirMewser on April 6, 2018 8:43PM3 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭What in the actual *** are all the stam sorcs complaining about Armaments for? Seriously. Light and heavy attacks were significantly buffed. Your armaments now buff light attacks which will net MORE damage than the old Armaments. Your heavy attacks were buffed along with everyone else. You can now slot it on one bar instead of two giving you an extra skill slot. Blocking now reduces the cost of everything by 15%. This helps you FAR more than your magicka counterparts. You have jewelry crafting and 2h counts for two set pieces. Do you even know what this means? Wait for it...
Legion and Fury now have gold jewelry in every trait, not just Healthy. You can go 5 legion 5 fury, sustain with dark deal/heavy attacks and be basically unkillable while putting out stupid amounts of damage. Cheese it up. The cancer is real and it's waiting for you.
Bound Armor was the only actual buff that we got and you jokers are complaining about it. Stahhhhhp!
Alarmist vilification.
If you don't like hearing out both sides that is fine.
Just because you interpret others as jokes does not mean that problems don't exist.
Do know that besides you, there are other people who play this game regardless if you like it or not.
Sorry if you're finding that reality sucks.Edited by SirMewser on April 6, 2018 8:53PM3 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@ToRelax
We need more than that. I honestly don't see the Psijic skill line offering us much, and I'm pretty sure you have to slot a skill to get the block/shield passive. If were using undo on the back bar, we wont get the passive on the front. I'm really not seeing anything to be happy about except maybe a front bar only bound armor and the staff changes.
Also, meteor does not empower itself. Cast inner light and check your tooltips. They all get bigger except meteor.
You cannot cast another mages guild ability and expect the tooltip to read or behave as it's empowered.
Meteor empowers itself on cast , try without the passive unlocked then again after it's unlocked.
The initial impact will increase.
Yeah, meteor is going to hit like a wet noodle without some serious buffs. Nobody is going to use it on their bar. I hope the devs consider this because it will in no way compete with dawnbreaker.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't we just bring the Meteor self-empower to their attention and ask for a 20% damage buff to keep it unchanged?
Sounds like a reasonable request from all of the affected players to me.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can't we just bring the Meteor self-empower to their attention and ask for a 20% damage buff to keep it unchanged?
Sounds like a reasonable request from all of the affected players to me.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Good idea. While we're at it buff incap by 20% to compensate for the loss of empower from ambush.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doesn't Persistence seem potentially absusive by non sorc tanks? It reminds me of asylum staff.
Non sorc tanks don’t have access to sorc passives. You mean non-tank Sorcs?
I think is it’s a great boost mostly for stam builds in PvP especially ones that use S&B. Like me. 15% is big. If you block cast Heroic Slash, for example, and you block an attack before the skill goes out you are basically recuperating the cost of the block. Block casting Streak might become a thing. Block casting Vigor ofc.
I think the buff is quite small for MagSorc though. I don’t think many people will drop fire or lighting staff and switch to ice staff with heavy armor and start blocking instead of shielding. Though it would be pretty funny if that became a viable build. If Sorc had a strong HoT it would have been perhaps.
I didn't see it mention needed a shield and board. I look at this if block an attack as healer or dps didn't I just achieve 15% cost reduction. Obviously I like it..sorc is what I love to play.1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.
Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.
Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.
It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.
Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.
Because frag stun doesn’t require another gcd in the combo like reach or prison.
You toss your frag and deal a chunk of dmg tied in with by the stun right on curse proc.
Saying rune prison is amazing because it is unavoidable then listing the combo as curse meteor prison is just stupid. You shouldn’t have to rely on a 180 costing ult to reach kill potential.
So here is the old rotation. Shock for frag proc. Fury, curse, shock frag on curse impact followed by shock/frag while stunned. Toss a db in if you have it as you move in closer during a burst.
New: reach for frag proc. Fury curse flame reach before curse pops because no non cc spammable? Frag then spam reach.
Reach animation is clunkier than shock and can’t be weaved with procs nearly as quickly.
Then there is the need for a master staff from vdsa a pve drop just to allow yourself a cost equivalent spam like shock. Your spammable is also reach so now you need an alternative way to proc frags or else you burn the cc if you don’t happen to proc before they are off cc immunity.
Rune prison has a slight delay before it enables and can’t be weaved as effectively as old frag. It requires a bar space on front thus dropping inner light crit chance and max mag dmg. when we used to have a stun built into our heavy hitter. Which is also more cost efficient on an intensive mag draining class.
Use it back bar and that’s a gcd to bar swap for your cc during combo.
Use defensive rune and open world it’s pulled randomly by whoever hits you and it may Not Be the correct target. Or duels it doesn’t cc during your burst because they don’t hit you.
So yes it Is much easier working with all the class counters to a sorc burst whenever your burst is revolved around a frag stun especially since the stun on frag wasn’t as as telegraphed like flame reach.
Hopefully this helps you understand.
I can assure you I know what I’m saying. Don’t believe me? I can get you a reference sheet with a dozen+ signatures
ill sign that1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!Edited by bardx86 on April 7, 2018 12:05AM1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can't we just bring the Meteor self-empower to their attention and ask for a 20% damage buff to keep it unchanged?
Sounds like a reasonable request from all of the affected players to me.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Rather have the 20 on frags2 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).
That, I didn't know about. That actually makes this bug very potent. Hopefully they fix it.
Yep, that's aways been a good way to fit a negate, or warhorn in on a Stam Sorc for PVP.
You get three bars, and the group utility, at almost no cost.
Only issue there is that it becomes prohibitive if you are running Bound Armaments, since that limits you to just 3 slots on Overload bar.
Have you honestly ever tried to enter and leave overload in a real fight?
People who have never played Sorcs think it’s pixie dust and magic third bar boo-hoo unfair nerf! But they don’t see you get STUCK in overload a third of the time, desperately trying to get out of it before you die.
I mean, I suppose it works fine when you’re Zerg surfing and nobody’s trying to kill you. But try that when you need to drop mines with a stam DK humping your leg with heavy attack and dizzy spam.
Or even better, use an ultimate and you’re locked out of half of your utility until you earn it all back.
And that is the kicker.
Bar swapping, at least for me, can be pretty janky at times, and having a bar swap not go off that results in you uselessly toggling Overload while frantically searching for your Dawnbreaker.
The third Ultimate thing does offer a lot of extra utility, particularly in small to medium sized groups, but in large scale or in stuff like duels and Battlegrounds, I find it is a waste of time.
Typically my overload usage is strictly out of combat, break line of sight, pop overload, buff and dark deal back up
This is about the only example I have of that at the moment, but it is a decent representation of how I use the skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_iEqkTL68 Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find bar swapping between overlord not be an issue unless you try put an ultimate that not supposed to be there. The overlord third ulimate bug and exploit should get fixed.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
drake88131✭✭✭I'm so bored with nerfs. Can't we just have one patch where EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE finally gets a buff? You know, make the game more fun instead of more frustrating?1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can't we just bring the Meteor self-empower to their attention and ask for a 20% damage buff to keep it unchanged?
Sounds like a reasonable request from all of the affected players to me.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Good idea. While we're at it buff incap by 20% to compensate for the loss of empower from ambush.
Incap doesn't empower itself. Do a light attack after Ambush.4 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
It’ll be 2-3K, about what you get off a light attack. I wouldn’t say no to it, but it’s not much to write home about.
I’m sure rune cage is nice with a meteor/curse/frag combo, stop trying to convince me. But the *point* @Irylia was trying to make is this: We shouldn’t have to save up that much ultimate just to get *one* cheap, unavoidable no-skill macro kill.
We used to be able to drop and kill nightblades with a stun enabled empowered frag combo with curse and wrath. We used to be able to save ultimates for when they are needed most - multiple opponents standing together. Now we can’t. So should we be happy about being able to pull some cheap unavoidable rune cage burst stunt?
No. I’m not. Sorry.
9 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I will toss out one thing; I'd be able to content myself w/ the overall prognosis for sorc if Wrobel would just delete the Bolt Escape fatigue.
Now I made myself sad.2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
Small buffs often have a huge impact. But thanks for assuming things without knowing [snip] about meRagnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
It’ll be 2-3K, about what you get off a light attack. I wouldn’t say no to it, but it’s not much to write home about.
I’m sure rune cage is nice with a meteor/curse/frag combo, stop trying to convince me. But the *point* @Irylia was trying to make is this: We shouldn’t have to save up that much ultimate just to get *one* cheap, unavoidable no-skill macro kill.
We used to be able to drop and kill nightblades with a stun enabled empowered frag combo with curse and wrath. We used to be able to save ultimates for when they are needed most - multiple opponents standing together. Now we can’t. So should we be happy about being able to pull some cheap unavoidable rune cage burst stunt?
No. I’m not. Sorry.
And that's exactly the problem. Do you want to say that sorc was balanced when the class could kill people without an ultimate while being unkillable with 3 shields, Skelly Pirate, Shuffle and vampire? I guess not and yes, it was the only patch there I only played my own sorc because of how ridiculous the class was (even 5k+ health regen heavy armor tanks did just melt). God forbid that sorcs can't win duels anymore without popping ults (well I guess petsorcs still can lul).
Do I think that sorc is in a great spot currently? Not really. Do I think that the buffs look promising? Absolutely. No other class benefits as much from light attacks scaling change, from 2h weapons counting as 2 setpieces and from a direct buff to the class. I don't care if you like combos with Runecage or not, fact is that I see sorc as very dangerous with some extra damage on Runecage. Sure I might be wrong there, needs to be tested out once the patch hits the PTS. But complaining and pretending that the changes doesn't favour sorc more than a dual wield stamplar is unknowable.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on April 7, 2018 5:42PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Riddle me this: what other class relies on Meteor as primary dmg ult of choice?Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
Small buffs often have a huge impact. But thanks for assuming things without knowing [snip] about meRagnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
It’ll be 2-3K, about what you get off a light attack. I wouldn’t say no to it, but it’s not much to write home about.
I’m sure rune cage is nice with a meteor/curse/frag combo, stop trying to convince me. But the *point* @Irylia was trying to make is this: We shouldn’t have to save up that much ultimate just to get *one* cheap, unavoidable no-skill macro kill.
We used to be able to drop and kill nightblades with a stun enabled empowered frag combo with curse and wrath. We used to be able to save ultimates for when they are needed most - multiple opponents standing together. Now we can’t. So should we be happy about being able to pull some cheap unavoidable rune cage burst stunt?
No. I’m not. Sorry.
And that's exactly the problem. Do you want to say that sorc was balanced when the class could kill people without an ultimate while being unkillable with 3 shields, Skelly Pirate, Shuffle and vampire? I guess not and yes, it was the only patch there I only played my own sorc because of how ridiculous the class was (even 5k+ health regen heavy armor tanks did just melt). God forbid that sorcs can't win duels anymore without popping ults (well I guess petsorcs still can lul).
Do I think that sorc is in a great spot currently? Not really. Do I think that the buffs look promising? Absolutely. No other class benefits as much from light attacks scaling change, from 2h weapons counting as 2 setpieces and from a direct buff to the class. I don't care if you like combos with Runecage or not, fact is that I see sorc as very dangerous with some extra damage on Runecage. Sure I might be wrong there, needs to be tested out once the patch hits the PTS. But complaining and pretending that the changes doesn't favour sorc more than a dual wield stamplar is unknowable.
If the Summerset changes go through in their current state, the amount of dmg I'm looking at losing on Meteor is close to the dmg I stand to gain from a guaranteed Rune Cage. Then there's two more factors to consider with that shift: one, the dmg I'm losing is instant controlled dmg (it's part of Meteor's hit after all) while what I'm gaining is dmg that is fundamentally untimeable because it's dependent on whenever the target decides to CC break - in fact, it's going to be a delayed part of the burst at best by design because I have to time the Rune Cage to CC them right as Meteor hits, that's another split second for someone to heal them. And two, Rune Cage can still give me that same dmg on Live if the target ends up eating the CC - meaning my max possible burst on Live is theoretically higher.
My point here is, this Rune Cage change isn't actually giving any 'extra dmg' to the standard Rune Cage combo.
Will the light atk scaling 'make up' for that? A) I doubt it, B ) If it's enough to significantly increase burst, then I'd argue that it's too much of a boost to light atks in general, and C) It's not a sorc specific buff.
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on April 7, 2018 5:42PM5 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is the changes to storm annotach helping? Will people be using it?
The ones who use it for the AoE will keep using it for that; but no one is going to switch based on a health pool buff because people only ever cared about the duration of the Greater morph anyway.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Is the changes to storm annotach helping? Will people be using it?
The storm Atro changes are to one morph that we all don’t use. I suspect we will all continue not using it.
A good change would have been to make it call a wind atronach, one of the craglorn monsters that’s all physical damage. Stamina Sorcs would be happy with that, and Magicka Sorcs just wouldn’t care. It would let our stamina brethren use a Sorc uktimate that isn’t just negate.
1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The buffs we’re getting will no doubt do better against some of the DW stamina builds, but I really don’t think it leaves us much better than other Magicka builds. MagDK’s can break snares and Magplars can instant heal.
I really hope they do something about the damage on meteor. It’s already the most telegraphed and easy to counter ultimate out there. It’s also one of our best weapons against big groups, since not everyone in a ball Zerg holds block when it hits.
I’m pretty upset about the loss of self empower, I really don’t give a rats backside about two light attacks when a stacked ball Zerg will just laugh at it now.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The buffs we’re getting will no doubt do better against some of the DW stamina builds, but I really don’t think it leaves us much better than other Magicka builds. MagDK’s can break snares and Magplars can instant heal.
I really hope they do something about the damage on meteor. It’s already the most telegraphed and easy to counter ultimate out there. It’s also one of our best weapons against big groups, since not everyone in a ball Zerg holds block when it hits.
I’m pretty upset about the loss of self empower, I really don’t give a rats backside about two light attacks when a stacked ball Zerg will just laugh at it now.
While it will be less effective in that scenario as well, the Empower bonus actually only works against the primary target in the first place, which is one reason why this ultimate isn't as effective against stacked groups as one might expect.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The buffs we’re getting will no doubt do better against some of the DW stamina builds, but I really don’t think it leaves us much better than other Magicka builds. MagDK’s can break snares and Magplars can instant heal.
I really hope they do something about the damage on meteor. It’s already the most telegraphed and easy to counter ultimate out there. It’s also one of our best weapons against big groups, since not everyone in a ball Zerg holds block when it hits.
I’m pretty upset about the loss of self empower, I really don’t give a rats backside about two light attacks when a stacked ball Zerg will just laugh at it now.
While it will be less effective in that scenario as well, the Empower bonus actually only works against the primary target in the first place, which is one reason why this ultimate isn't as effective against stacked groups as one might expect.
Still need that 20% damage. Without it, there's no reason to run it over Dawnbreaker. And it's a big slap to the developers' face when their design brought the no1 magicka class to exclusively use an unsuited physical ult.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Stop wasting your time. You’re talking to ppl who can’t be convinced of this stuff. They’ve already told themselves for years now that Mag Sorc is forever OP.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Riddle me this: what other class relies on Meteor as primary dmg ult of choice?Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
Small buffs often have a huge impact. But thanks for assuming things without knowing [snip] about meRagnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
How is a 4k cures and a 5k frag good damage? Cage or not, you are not going to kill ***. I've tried every damage built out there throwing regen to the wind and they are all still lacking. Damage on sorcs sucks!
Add meteor to that combo + ~8k tooltip dmg from Runecage and yes, that burst is actually dangerous, especially if you consider that it is unavoidable. High burst should never be unavoidable, otherwise the burst will get nerfed sooner or later to the point there it's not dangerous anymore.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.
We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.
* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.
Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.
* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.
* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.
I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.
What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.
Holy rant, batman.
Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS
Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.
This is good for Sorcs.
No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.
You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.
Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)
*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.
Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge
And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.
Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.
I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...
Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.
Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.
8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?
Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.
2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.
Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved
The "strong" stamplars and stamdk are running around with duel builds (because both classes are garbage on anything else so they just play duel builds in open world as well), it would be similar if people would take petsorc as reference for sorc balance. You will struggle against any duel build while running an open world build by yourself, that has been the case since over a year now, what do you expect suddenly? To be able to compete with duel cheese on an open world build (why should sorc be able to do that when no other class can't as well)?
And yes, the changes seem pretty nice. Sure we need to test that stuff first but it's too early for whine. Damage as soon as you break Runecage seems quite strong imo (and many sorc mains agree here).
They don’t run duel builds.
Kiri is in my guild and a friend not to mention a top stamplar. He runs the same sets open and duels.
Which isn’t even the issue seeing as how you as a sorc can run duel spec.
Tag the sorcs that are happier with prison over old frag.
Well, I would consider a high damage bleed build with low sustain as a more duel focused build. Sure, it can work open world and stamplar doesn't really have open world builds which aren't terrible bad, that's why I would run such a build too on stamplar. That doesn't change the fact that I don't see stamplar in a strong spot right now and I don't support any stamplar nerf requests (nor do I support any stamina nerf requests, there is no stamina PvP meta in my opinion outside of Nb and Warden which are only good because of Cloak/Shimmering). How would you nerf stamplar and stamdk if I might ask?
You can create a strong duel build too (even without pets) by getting 50k max magicka and/or playing with Shadowrend, especially next patch with a 5/5/2 setup. Not optimal for open world I guess but still playable in Cyro if it's important to you to be able to compete with "duel builds". (I find it pretty funny that magicka has way more options to play ultra cheese builds in duels than stamina has).
No sorc is happy about the Frag nerf. The nerf was horrible and destroyed build diversity. But again, this doesn't change the fact that Runecage has potential for the next patch.
Well I guess you don't PVP that much, an 8k tool tip will be around 1.5k damage, hardly dangerous.
It’ll be 2-3K, about what you get off a light attack. I wouldn’t say no to it, but it’s not much to write home about.
I’m sure rune cage is nice with a meteor/curse/frag combo, stop trying to convince me. But the *point* @Irylia was trying to make is this: We shouldn’t have to save up that much ultimate just to get *one* cheap, unavoidable no-skill macro kill.
We used to be able to drop and kill nightblades with a stun enabled empowered frag combo with curse and wrath. We used to be able to save ultimates for when they are needed most - multiple opponents standing together. Now we can’t. So should we be happy about being able to pull some cheap unavoidable rune cage burst stunt?
No. I’m not. Sorry.
And that's exactly the problem. Do you want to say that sorc was balanced when the class could kill people without an ultimate while being unkillable with 3 shields, Skelly Pirate, Shuffle and vampire? I guess not and yes, it was the only patch there I only played my own sorc because of how ridiculous the class was (even 5k+ health regen heavy armor tanks did just melt). God forbid that sorcs can't win duels anymore without popping ults (well I guess petsorcs still can lul).
Do I think that sorc is in a great spot currently? Not really. Do I think that the buffs look promising? Absolutely. No other class benefits as much from light attacks scaling change, from 2h weapons counting as 2 setpieces and from a direct buff to the class. I don't care if you like combos with Runecage or not, fact is that I see sorc as very dangerous with some extra damage on Runecage. Sure I might be wrong there, needs to be tested out once the patch hits the PTS. But complaining and pretending that the changes doesn't favour sorc more than a dual wield stamplar is unknowable.
If the Summerset changes go through in their current state, the amount of dmg I'm looking at losing on Meteor is close to the dmg I stand to gain from a guaranteed Rune Cage. Then there's two more factors to consider with that shift: one, the dmg I'm losing is instant controlled dmg (it's part of Meteor's hit after all) while what I'm gaining is dmg that is fundamentally untimeable because it's dependent on whenever the target decides to CC break - in fact, it's going to be a delayed part of the burst at best by design because I have to time the Rune Cage to CC them right as Meteor hits, that's another split second for someone to heal them. And two, Rune Cage can still give me that same dmg on Live if the target ends up eating the CC - meaning my max possible burst on Live is theoretically higher.
My point here is, this Rune Cage change isn't actually giving any 'extra dmg' to the standard Rune Cage combo.
Will the light atk scaling 'make up' for that? A) I doubt it, B ) If it's enough to significantly increase burst, then I'd argue that it's too much of a boost to light atks in general, and C) It's not a sorc specific buff.
[Edited for quote]
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