Sorcerer Summerset Changes Discussion

Minno · April 2018

I think the recent info is only a little snippet. And we can't test the full package yet to make any assumptions.

I think across the board only wardens got shafted since their nerfs have no compensation. Everyone else received little/large buffs on the entire package, but pain points haven't been addressed.

I think they were waiting on the rep program before tacking those pain points, which seems like everyone is commenting on here.

Biro123 · April 2018

Nah - I like it as it is. If it didn't have the delay, they'd have more time to break free and dodge before the frag hits

Murador178 · April 2018

I think sorcerer profits of alot of things:

1.) magicka scaling on light/heavies - sorcerers tend to have with mag nb the highest max stat pools since shields directly scale with max magicka. E.g. my stam nb runs 35k stam while my mSorc is almost 50k max magicka - This will make empowered sorc light attacks pretty strong aswell - ofc we need to wait for the scaling
2.)Sorc are in tendency staff users - there alot of specs out there no using 2h weapons - 50% of the stam population, magplars, mDKs --> sorc gets a big buff relative 2 these specs
3.) that runecage is even on the live servers making onehitting medium armor 2h/bow builds quite easy since it drops block and roll - ofc this will need proper timing so is irellevant for 90% of the guys here anyways

4.) The spell increasing light attack dmg on the next 2 weaves could make some high dps builds possible on all classes (yes this is not sorc specific but maybe it can be merged into the burst combo)
5) The other minor buffs are nice aswell - for dueling the mines cost reduce is nice for sure

and the bound armor is nice on few builds aswell.
6. Im rly interested if we can empower overload using runecage instakilling people

I think we should see how the testphase is before complaining. Buffing too many things will just result in a complete nerf the patch after.

And i dont know where u see all other specs buffed. There isnt even a single patch note on stamplar

IAVITNI · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Yeah, it heals for like... 800 health? And it does about.. one light attack worth of damage. Let’s put the celebratory fireworks away shall we?

The only thing that could put rune cage on my bar is making the animation cleaner and faster.

^ this. Defence rune is instant and feels great when it goes off. The animation and timing is so clunky, i ditched it and streak for CC mainly due to that, bar for ganking

Mind elaborating on how you feel its clunky? I and fellow guildies have used Rune Cage a fair amount and we are all solo/small scale players. None of us have ever really complained about the timing and we almost all like the delay.

Minno · April 2018

Someone gave me screenshots of the psijjic order abilities. Sorcs can reduce the ultimate to 99 cost and one morph gives you minor protection at all times while it is slotted lol.

Meditate spell you actually hold down the button to activate; and you get major protection from activating or channeling all psijjic order abilities. It costs no resorces based on the tooltip.

There's also a channel that heals players for 2600 health every second for 1800 mag. And there magic morph of the light attack DMG boost boosts your next two light attacks for around 2.5k DMG each with a cost of like 1500 mag to activate. Then you have that passive that sends out an or of DMG after 10 stacks of ability use, but the DMG is around 1500-1700 mag.

The minor force spell also costs 2200 mag to cast.

Subversus · April 2018

Minno wrote: »

I think the recent info is only a little snippet. And we can't test the full package yet to make any assumptions.

I think across the board only wardens got shafted since their nerfs have no compensation. Everyone else received little/large buffs on the entire package, but pain points haven't been addressed.

I think they were waiting on the rep program before tacking those pain points, which seems like everyone is commenting on here.

Magblade dps got more or less boned for PvE, but yeah most of the changes look good. I wish they would give at least a 2-3s immunity to roots/snares to mdk (so I can safely reroll

) and maybe to something about snares on magblade. Otherwise this is the greatest patch this game has had in 2 years period.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2018

I feel like everyone is getting a buff this patch, but will sorcs move in the standings? I honestly dont think so.

What I want to know is why they keep trying to buff a sorcs ability to block (both with a skill and a passive)? They are the sheild stacking class. You shouldnt be blocking with shields up for the most part. Assuming any of your shield survives the attack, all a block did was cost you stamina. Seems counter intuitive to their designed play-style, although I guess maybe it will be more forgiving to people who block more than they should. Doesnt seem like a buff to a competent player.

MetalHead4x4 · April 2018

I dunno why people think Rune Cage going to 5 seconds is actually doing anything. People always immediately break free, it doesn't last 2-3-or 5 seconds. That's kinda like saying Hardened Ward last 6 seconds" it doesn't in PvP. You take a hit from a 2H for 9k and a follow up LA and your shield is gone in one second, especially if you run one shield like me. Rune Cage won't cast on someone running immov pots so it sits on your bar doing nothing, waiting. I don't use it. I want a skill that I know is gonna actually do something so I don't waste a button press.

I'd rather see something that increases our magicka pool. Running 5 Shacklebreaker, 5 Wizards Repost and Infernal Guardian I can't even pull 39k magicka running Magelight. I'm not a PvEer, hate "meta" builds and don't have the DLC's to run BIS gear. Gear combo's should be more competitive instead of being expected to play with certain gear and shield stack. Not everyone wants to play that way.

akray21 · April 2018

Well I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here. StamSorc isn't getting enough in PvP, and are actually getting a pretty big nerf in PvE (NMG nerf, and the fact that bound armaments buffs LA and not HA anymore).

Almost all the changes to Sorc is for mag... Why is StamSorc always an afterthought?

Sixty5 · April 2018

akray21 wrote: »

Well I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here. StamSorc isn't getting enough in PvP, and are actually getting a pretty big nerf in PvE (NMG nerf, and the fact that bound armaments buffs LA and not HA anymore).

Almost all the changes to Sorc is for mag... Why is StamSorc always an afterthought?

I am optimisic, Imbue Weapons looks like something that Stam Sorc can really abuse, especially if the light attack changes go through.

With the Bound Armaments change, you are looking at something like a Surprise Attack's worth of damage added to your next two light attacks, which is pretty nutty, in both PVP and PVE

Maulkin · April 2018

akray21 wrote: »

Well I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here. StamSorc isn't getting enough in PvP, and are actually getting a pretty big nerf in PvE (NMG nerf, and the fact that bound armaments buffs LA and not HA anymore).

Almost all the changes to Sorc is for mag... Why is StamSorc always an afterthought?

I think you must have read different notes. The majority of changes are beneficial to StamSorc and to Sorc Tanks.

StamSorc doesn't need much in PvP, it's a pretty good place atm strength wise, yet it still got couple of really nice buffs. Persistence passive and the change to Bound Armaments are good buffs for PvP.

As for PvE dps, they are nerfing all of it (not just stamsorc) because it's vastly outperforming all Magicka DPS bar magblade. Hardly a surprise there tbh.

Beardimus · April 2018

IAVITNI wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Yeah, it heals for like... 800 health? And it does about.. one light attack worth of damage. Let’s put the celebratory fireworks away shall we?

The only thing that could put rune cage on my bar is making the animation cleaner and faster.

^ this. Defence rune is instant and feels great when it goes off. The animation and timing is so clunky, i ditched it and streak for CC mainly due to that, bar for ganking

Mind elaborating on how you feel its clunky? I and fellow guildies have used Rune Cage a fair amount and we are all solo/small scale players. None of us have ever really complained about the timing and we almost all like the delay.

I've used it alot too, for ganking / picking people off at range its fine, but in fury of combat say in a BG up close, multiple targets its clunky animation (like hard casting a frag feeling of exposure jist shorter) and the delay doesn't fit with the pace of burst you need (on a DW Sorc anyhow)

I resent the fact people say oh with curse, cage, Meteor you will be ok. Great so now i need ultimate to kill people? Previously we had the burst without.
Frag change hit burst hard, especially on DW, there's no question.

Dracane · April 2018

I think it's funny how you openly speak about an exploit here, happily, as if it would be a normal feature. You know that Overload thing is an exploit ? Keep it up, then soon you may not have that anymore..

Sixty5 · April 2018

Dracane wrote: »

I think it's funny how you openly speak about an exploit here, happily, as if it would be a normal feature. You know that Overload thing is an exploit ? Keep it up, then soon you may not have that anymore..

ZOS know full well about it, and have done so for a fair amount of time. There has been no word saying "hey don't do this" or any mention of a fix.

So at this point, I'd see no issue with talking about it or making use of it

Dracane · April 2018

Sixty5 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think it's funny how you openly speak about an exploit here, happily, as if it would be a normal feature. You know that Overload thing is an exploit ? Keep it up, then soon you may not have that anymore..

ZOS know full well about it, and have done so for a fair amount of time. There has been no word saying "hey don't do this" or any mention of a fix.

So at this point, I'd see no issue with talking about it or making use of it

And still, they speak about it like it would be mandatory and normal, while it's just a bug and could be gone any time.

IAVITNI · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Yeah, it heals for like... 800 health? And it does about.. one light attack worth of damage. Let’s put the celebratory fireworks away shall we?

The only thing that could put rune cage on my bar is making the animation cleaner and faster.

^ this. Defence rune is instant and feels great when it goes off. The animation and timing is so clunky, i ditched it and streak for CC mainly due to that, bar for ganking

Mind elaborating on how you feel its clunky? I and fellow guildies have used Rune Cage a fair amount and we are all solo/small scale players. None of us have ever really complained about the timing and we almost all like the delay.

I've used it alot too, for ganking / picking people off at range its fine, but in fury of combat say in a BG up close, multiple targets its clunky animation (like hard casting a frag feeling of exposure jist shorter) and the delay doesn't fit with the pace of burst you need (on a DW Sorc anyhow)

I resent the fact people say oh with curse, cage, Meteor you will be ok. Great so now i need ultimate to kill people? Previously we had the burst without.
Frag change hit burst hard, especially on DW, there's no question.

Ahh ok. I tend to stay out of BGs as I feel people simply run dueling builds with slightly more sustain so this might primarily be a meta difference. I also run Mines over Dark Exchange so this might be helping with my spacing.

I agree with the slight clunkiness but I actually like casting Rune as it provides an extra chance to proc frag. Prior to that I would either Empower my Frag or Streak. I wouldn't say it's a better rotation, but it's a fresh one.

Totally agree with the curse, cage, meteor thing. You pretty much can't kill anything stronger than a potato without an ultimate if you DW. I've actually started to include DW heavy attacks into some burst rotations just to proc weapon Glyphs. It sucks btw.

I like the idea of Rune Cage, just needs some fine-tuning. Idk what the meta is on xbox EU but PS4 NA is pretty much all 30k heavy armor block builds, so this may also be a reason why I support Rune Cage.

HoloYoitsu · April 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Why do people keep complaining about the loss of dw? I’ve seen a total of 0 dw sorcs in cyro the past like 3 months, by the way everyone’s [snip] about it you’d assume it was a very popular spec.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Teargrants DWO

Go ahead and look, like 90% of the videos are DW or SB sorc.

People complain because the empower change didn't have to be handled in such a clumsy way, that doesn't seem very thought out at that. If the main aim was to nerf stealth burst from ppl cheesing Mage Light -> Snipe ect, then it could have been done differently w/o hurting other playstyles.

Let's take a moment and consider this: With the new empower change, Wrobel has 2 versions of Empower codebase available , the Live ver and the new one. Instead of the sweeping change, is it not conceivable that he could include both forms of empower, with the new one being a different named buff? Basically, let Entropy, Meteor & Wrecking Blow keep the old empower, while Mage Light (+rest of the mage guild skills), Chains ect get the new one?

Instead we have:

All mag DW builds that used Entropy (it's not just sorcs) taking a huge nerf, which intended or not was unnecessary imo.
Meteor taking a huge nerf as @ToRelax pointed out. (Also seems completely unintended)
Wrecking Blow morph losing out on the dmg boost, I mean most ppl don't use that morph anymore, but now I guess literally no one will.
Huge potential buff to Overload light atks (assuming the buff applies to 'light atk' universally and not just 'wep light atk'), which I cannot fathom how this could be intended.

IAVITNI · April 2018

MetalHead4x4 wrote: »

I dunno why people think Rune Cage going to 5 seconds is actually doing anything. People always immediately break free, it doesn't last 2-3-or 5 seconds. That's kinda like saying Hardened Ward last 6 seconds" it doesn't in PvP. You take a hit from a 2H for 9k and a follow up LA and your shield is gone in one second, especially if you run one shield like me. Rune Cage won't cast on someone running immov pots so it sits on your bar doing nothing, waiting. I don't use it. I want a skill that I know is gonna actually do something so I don't waste a button press.

I'd rather see something that increases our magicka pool. Running 5 Shacklebreaker, 5 Wizards Repost and Infernal Guardian I can't even pull 39k magicka running Magelight. I'm not a PvEer, hate "meta" builds and don't have the DLC's to run BIS gear. Gear combo's should be more competitive instead of being expected to play with certain gear and shield stack. Not everyone wants to play that way.

Nobody thinks that.

The only significant change of Rune is the guaranteed damage.

Not bashing your build, but you have a low magicka pool because of the sets you run. We already have 2 skills to increase magicka. You can actually use both as one is offensive and the other will be offensive. Not saying it would be effective, just saying.

HoloYoitsu · April 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

- Undo can be placed on Overload and work fine, as one needs to plan ahead to use it anyway. I guess the morph allowing you to use it while stunned is then out of the question, though, if the other one will be any good.

You actually can't do that anymore, if you go into overload bar and slot a 3rd ult, the game just instantly takes you out of overload form and you now have the new ult slotted instead of overload.

@HoloYoitsu When placing another ult on OL it took me right out of it for as long as I can remember. However, when testing it last week to see whether slotting Undo there might be an option, I was taken out but the other ult (Light's Champion) was slotted on OL when I reactivated it.

Update: I just checked it again and it didn't work for me. Went on PTS to see whether it was just patched and got the same result. It was reproduceable on several occasions last week, not sure what happened.

Yeah, I tested it twice over the last week, and both times after reslotting Overload, the Overload bar ult is just....Overload.

Maulkin wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

- Undo can be placed on Overload and work fine, as one needs to plan ahead to use it anyway. I guess the morph allowing you to use it while stunned is then out of the question, though, if the other one will be any good.

You actually can't do that anymore, if you go into overload bar and slot a 3rd ult, the game just instantly takes you out of overload form and you now have the new ult slotted instead of overload.

@HoloYoitsu When placing another ult on OL it took me right out of it for as long as I can remember. However, when testing it last week to see whether slotting Undo there might be an option, I was taken out but the other ult (Light's Champion) was slotted on OL when I reactivated it.

Tbf I never understood what this achieves.

If you need to activate the Resto Ult you have an extra cooldown (activating Overload) which could well mean you die before you manage. If you need the Overload bar for the utility, like having Mines for example, then you can't exit the bar until you ultie drop. So apart from being a bit funny, is there an actual benefit to glitching the OL ulti that I've missed?

The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).

It was also nice because it made Overload bar more reliable in lag, where often you'd get stuck in Overload on/off toggle cycles cuz of how unresponsive it was. By having a diff button to get out of Overload, you guaranteed that you didn't get stuck in it.

Minalan wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Yeah, it heals for like... 800 health? And it does about.. one light attack worth of damage. Let’s put the celebratory fireworks away shall we?

The only thing that could put rune cage on my bar is making the animation cleaner and faster.

Wrobel should just copy/pasta the animation from Fossilize. He already did that w/ the skill's actual code - I mean, it literally shows up as 'Fossilize' in peoples death recaps ffs!

Maulkin · April 2018

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Yeah, I tested it twice over the last week, and both times after reslotting Overload, the Overload bar ult is just....Overload.

I can still glitch the Overload bar and put another ult there (and use it), no problems. I just did it 5 mins ago. I'm not gonna type here how it's done, for obvious reasons, but I put a bug report in.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).

That, I didn't know about. That actually makes this bug very potent. Hopefully they fix it.

Sixty5 · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).

That, I didn't know about. That actually makes this bug very potent. Hopefully they fix it.

Yep, that's aways been a good way to fit a negate, or warhorn in on a Stam Sorc for PVP.

You get three bars, and the group utility, at almost no cost.

Only issue there is that it becomes prohibitive if you are running Bound Armaments, since that limits you to just 3 slots on Overload bar.

Skullstachio · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

7) Bound Armor is no longer a toggle. When activated, increases the amount of damage the caster can block by 20% for 3 seconds. In addition, Bound Aegis now grants both Minor Resistance buffs, while Bound Armaments now increases your Light Attack damage by 11%, but not your Heavy Attack damage.

I really hope ZOS keep Bound Arnaments & Bound Aegis the way it is instead of turning it into an unused cheap knockoff skill, because lets be honest here, it is a good sorcerer skill to have primarily for tanking & slightly easier resource management, but have you seen how cool the aesthetical appearance is when toggled active, it makes characters with Xivkyn helmets very sinister looking in a fashionably good way.

Disclaimer: the info mentioned is incomplete & may not be final, but it only means there can be room for improvement.

Here's my thoughts on how bound armor and its morphs could be worked:

Bound Armor: Cost: [^] Magicka.
Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve & Minor Ward at all times, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 1320. While Toggled Active, The armor increases your Max Magicka by 5%

Initially, putting Minor ward & resolve on the unmorphed skill could prove something but mainly it can help open more opportunities for the morphs,
Bound Armaments: Cost: [^] Stamina.
Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve & Minor Ward at all times, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 1320. While Toggled Active, The armor increases your Max Stamina by 8% and applies minor brutality at all times, increasing your weapon damage by 5%.

This may look the same to a degree, but dually note that while it may still possess minor ward & resolve, not only does this morph increase max stamina as per the usual, instead of increasing damage with light or heavy attacks, it now applies minor brutality, increasing weapon damage by 5%, similar to the buff from the Dragonknights "Mountains blessing" passive, but it is applied at all times while it is active, giving a bit of diversity for stamina orientated characters & promotes Tanking/DPS roles at the same time. I can literally see this morph working well for a lot of people.
Bound Aegis: Cost: [^] Magicka.
Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve & Minor Ward at all times, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 1320. While Toggled Active, The armor increases your Max Magicka by 8% & Now Benefits from "Expert Summoner" Increasing your Maximum Health by 4-8%.

With Bound Aegis, since Bound Armor now grants Both minor Ward & Resolve by default, I figured I would fit Bound Aegis in as an even tankier approach whilst retaining its Magicka Inducing properties, I did so by making it so that In addition to the 8% Max Magicka Bonus, it now also Benefits from the "Expert Summoner" Passive, Respectively increasing the casters Maximum Health by 4-8% respectively based on the Passives Level, thus giving Bound Aegis a more "Defensive Lean" as opposed to Bound Arnaments while also potentially freeing up an Ability slot for Magicka Orientated Tanks, namely those who use a Frost Staff with Sorcerers.

Please Do consider this in the long run for the summerset isles should it come down to changes for the Sorcerers Bound Armor & it's morphs respectively.

Minalan · April 2018

Sixty5 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).

That, I didn't know about. That actually makes this bug very potent. Hopefully they fix it.

Yep, that's aways been a good way to fit a negate, or warhorn in on a Stam Sorc for PVP.

You get three bars, and the group utility, at almost no cost.

Only issue there is that it becomes prohibitive if you are running Bound Armaments, since that limits you to just 3 slots on Overload bar.

Have you honestly ever tried to enter and leave overload in a real fight?

People who have never played Sorcs think it’s pixie dust and magic third bar boo-hoo unfair nerf! But they don’t see you get STUCK in overload a third of the time, desperately trying to get out of it before you die.

I mean, I suppose it works fine when you’re Zerg surfing and nobody’s trying to kill you. But try that when you need to drop mines with a stam DK humping your leg with heavy attack and dizzy spam.

Or even better, use an ultimate and you’re locked out of half of your utility until you earn it all back.

Tasear · April 2018

Doesn't Persistence seem potentially absusive by non sorc tanks? It reminds me of asylum staff.

Tasear · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

Calling these things buffs to Sorcs, just shows how desperate you/we are by now. We must even consider global changes personalised changes for Sorcs ^^

I'll call the Rune Cage change a buff to NB then if you prefer

Rune cage deals close to no damage. It's one of those buffs, that are so unrelevant and small, that they can as well be ignored. Please, the damage is pitiful and not needed.

It's base damage is around 89% that of Crushing Shock. For a ranged, unavoidable 5 sec stun that's pretty good I think.

Also have to remember the sorc passive from dark magic skill tree. Every time you deal dmg with a dark magic skill you heal for a percentage of your health. So it's an unblock able unavoidable cc that will now always heal you too.

Yeah, it heals for like... 800 health? And it does about.. one light attack worth of damage. Let’s put the celebratory fireworks away shall we?

The only thing that could put rune cage on my bar is making the animation cleaner and faster.

^ this. Defence rune is instant and feels great when it goes off. The animation and timing is so clunky, i ditched it and streak for CC mainly due to that, bar for ganking

Speaking of clunky, I have complaints about animation of twlight heal.

Maulkin · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't Persistence seem potentially absusive by non sorc tanks? It reminds me of asylum staff.

Non sorc tanks don’t have access to sorc passives. You mean non-tank Sorcs?

I think is it’s a great boost mostly for stam builds in PvP especially ones that use S&B. Like me. 15% is big. If you block cast Heroic Slash, for example, and you block an attack before the skill goes out you are basically recuperating the cost of the block. Block casting Streak might become a thing. Block casting Vigor ofc.

I think the buff is quite small for MagSorc though. I don’t think many people will drop fire or lighting staff and switch to ice staff with heavy armor and start blocking instead of shielding. Though it would be pretty funny if that became a viable build. If Sorc had a strong HoT it would have been perhaps.

bardx86 · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The main point was being able to have access to a 3rd ult that might be more situational - say like Atro. You didn't have to detoggle Overload to exit Overload bar, you could slot a wep ability of the wep you had equipped; activating the button for that wep ability would detoggle Overload (but not actually cast the ability).

That, I didn't know about. That actually makes this bug very potent. Hopefully they fix it.

Yep, that's aways been a good way to fit a negate, or warhorn in on a Stam Sorc for PVP.

You get three bars, and the group utility, at almost no cost.

Only issue there is that it becomes prohibitive if you are running Bound Armaments, since that limits you to just 3 slots on Overload bar.

Have you honestly ever tried to enter and leave overload in a real fight?

People who have never played Sorcs think it’s pixie dust and magic third bar boo-hoo unfair nerf! But they don’t see you get STUCK in overload a third of the time, desperately trying to get out of it before you die.

I mean, I suppose it works fine when you’re Zerg surfing and nobody’s trying to kill you. But try that when you need to drop mines with a stam DK humping your leg with heavy attack and dizzy spam.

Or even better, use an ultimate and you’re locked out of half of your utility until you earn it all back.

No joke! You are in overload and trying to switch back out then STUN! It's good might nurse after that.

Irylia · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.

You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.

Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)

*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.

Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge

And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.

I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.

Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.

Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.

It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.

Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.

Because frag stun doesn’t require another gcd in the combo like reach or prison.

You toss your frag and deal a chunk of dmg tied in with by the stun right on curse proc.

Saying rune prison is amazing because it is unavoidable then listing the combo as curse meteor prison is just stupid. You shouldn’t have to rely on a 180 costing ult to reach kill potential.

So here is the old rotation. Shock for frag proc. Fury, curse, shock frag on curse impact followed by shock/frag while stunned. Toss a db in if you have it as you move in closer during a burst.

New: reach for frag proc. Fury curse flame reach before curse pops because no non cc spammable? Frag then spam reach.

Reach animation is clunkier than shock and can’t be weaved with procs nearly as quickly.

Then there is the need for a master staff from vdsa a pve drop just to allow yourself a cost equivalent spam like shock. Your spammable is also reach so now you need an alternative way to proc frags or else you burn the cc if you don’t happen to proc before they are off cc immunity.

Rune prison has a slight delay before it enables and can’t be weaved as effectively as old frag. It requires a bar space on front thus dropping inner light crit chance and max mag dmg. when we used to have a stun built into our heavy hitter. Which is also more cost efficient on an intensive mag draining class.

Use it back bar and that’s a gcd to bar swap for your cc during combo.

Use defensive rune and open world it’s pulled randomly by whoever hits you and it may Not Be the correct target. Or duels it doesn’t cc during your burst because they don’t hit you.

So yes it Is much easier working with all the class counters to a sorc burst whenever your burst is revolved around a frag stun especially since the stun on frag wasn’t as as telegraphed like flame reach.

Hopefully this helps you understand.
I can assure you I know what I’m saying. Don’t believe me? I can get you a reference sheet with a dozen+ signatures

Minalan · April 2018

Irylia wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.

You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.

Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)

*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.

Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge

And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.

I find your statements contradictory and exaggerated.

Exaggerated, because medium armour builds find Mines very problematic to fight against. I know, I have 2 PvP stam chars (StamSorc and StamBlade) in medium. No one rolls though mines like they're not there. It more often than not results in your death.

Contradictory, because first you list all the ways that stam toons "break" the Sorc combo mainly by avoiding/reflecting/absorbing/cloaking projectiles. Then you proceed to tell me that Crystal Frag stun (which suffers from all the problems you listed) is extremely important, while an undodgeable/unblockable CC and damage skill somehow makes things worse.

It obviously doesn't. Curse->Meteor->Cage (new version) will basically kill or drop into execute range the vast majority of medium builds out there. As for how you worked out that Flame Reach lowers pressure, that I don't know.

Anyhow, I just fail to see how these changes make Sorcs less capable at dishing burst and dealing with a wider variety of builds than before. I see those as changes in the right direction with the exception perhaps of the Empower changes.

Because frag stun doesn’t require another gcd in the combo like reach or prison.

You toss your frag and deal a chunk of dmg tied in with by the stun right on curse proc.

Saying rune prison is amazing because it is unavoidable then listing the combo as curse meteor prison is just stupid. You shouldn’t have to rely on a 180 costing ult to reach kill potential.

So here is the old rotation. Shock for frag proc. Fury, curse, shock frag on curse impact followed by shock/frag while stunned. Toss a db in if you have it as you move in closer during a burst.

New: reach for frag proc. Fury curse flame reach before curse pops because no non cc spammable? Frag then spam reach.

Reach animation isn’t clunkier than shock and can’t be weaved with procs nearly as quickly.

Then there is the need for a master staff from vdsa a pve drop just to drop the cost and allow yourself a cost equivalent spam like reach. Your spammable is also reach so now you need an alternative way to proc frags or else you burn the cc if you don’t happen to proc before they are off cc immunity.

Rune prison has a slight delay before it enables and can’t be weaves as effectively as old frag. It requires a bar space on front thus dropping innermost light crit chance and max mag dmg when we used to have a stun built into our heavy hitter.

Use it back bar and that’s a gcd to bar swap for your cc during combo.

Use defensive rune and open world it’s pulled randomly by whoever hits you and it may Not Be the correct target.

So yes it Ian much easier working with all the class counters to a sorc burst whenever your burst is revolves around a frag stun especially since the stun on frag wasn’t as as telegraphed like flame reach.

Hopefully this helps you understand.
I can assure you I know what I’m saying. Don’t believe me? I can get you a reference sheet with a dozen+ signatures

You... don’t need a reference sheet @Irylia Some people just haven’t seen you Sorc first hand. Or been on the receiving end of it.

I think we’ve been nerfed and complained about so often, anything that looks remotely like a buff is something to celebrate.

Meanwhile:
Templars heal more faster
DK’s break snares and heal better
Nightblades are still king of the PVP battlegrounds

PS: What build changes are you thinking of this coming patch?

Irylia · April 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I’m not happy with the changes at all. We asked for damage, and didn’t get it. Meanwhile every other class has had their heals buffed.

We have two class attacks. Two. Curse and frags. Wrath is an execute. Rune cage is a CC. Frags needs the full 20% back on a proc because we can’t empower it. Meteor is going to suck without the self empower.

* Rune cage is nice, but I use the defensive rune morph. It lasts for two minutes, and it’s an instant “F*** you” to bow gankers. It’s necessary given the number of these idiots out there, it FEELS like about half of the PVP population sometimes.

Last night Defensive rune caught a gank spec stam nightblade who jumped me, so I turned a soul assaulted him to death. I got angry tells for ten straight minutes. It was pure joy.

* I’ll probably be slotting ‘Acceleration’ instead of boundless storm for the 12 second burst window with minor force. I don’t think anyone here yet realizes how good that is.

* Bound Aegis change is nice, but it won’t take the place of mage light on my bar. There are just too many damn nightblades out there. You really need it for the reveal, mage light plus streak, light up in the direction where you last saw the nightblade and usually you can catch them.

I’m currently built to ‘L2P’ survive in elder stamblades online, given the cool buffs they just received I don’t see my setup changing. I don’t see the stamblade meta changing.

What I DONT want to do, but might need to just to keep up with the crappy meta Eric just built: slot rune cage, curse, and degeneration on the overload bar. Curse, degeneration cancel rune cage cancel overload light attack. Boom: 3K Rune Cage, 6K Curse, 18K overload. Maybe a quick wrath if they’re still alive by some miracle. It’s crap and everyone out there is going to do it to you too.

Holy rant, batman.

Every change we've seen so far, is a buff. It's the first update for I don't know how long...since before Morrowing for sure, that Sorcs are getting buffs without getting nerfs too. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just hope they don't nerf it in PTS

Sorc burst damage is currently very decent. Light attacks scaling from Max Magicka as well, is a huge buff to Sorc pressure. 5-5-2 with staves is amazing, you can slot Slimecraw and buff your damage considerably if you want. Rune Cage getting damage on break is also increasing the burst in the curse-meteor-cage-frag combo.

This is good for Sorcs.

No it isn’t. The changes do nothing for sorcs current issues in Cyro outside of mine cost reduction.

You want to talk about burst go look at nb. They roll/cloak/shuffle the majority of your attacks while your burst is on a timer. Miss one piece of that combo and you need to reset. Meanwhile these nb’s are incapping for half my hp into surprise attack/bow and instant executes killing through ward stacks.

Hundings spriggan bs build and able to out sustain and reliably use cloak and roll
(Zendran)

*** bonkers how much more damage stamina (templar, warden, dk) are able to put out while mitigating a sorcs measly 3 sec burst set up.

Sorc is good with killing bad players but my god it’s so annoying how hard you bash your head into stamina players with very little result.
Shimmering shield
Frost armor (minor protection)
Wings
Sb reflect
Purify
Cloak
Shuffle
Roll dodge

And these Stam toons in medium armor are laughing while they roll through 8k tooltip mines.
Having frag stun was extremely important for sorcs rotation and enabling damage to get through. Flame reach and prison actually lower your pressure.

Hello, your unavoidable burst combo just got buffed by ~8k tooltip damage, your light attacks will do more damage and you get more set slots.

I can't believe that you complain about stamplar and stamdk...

Sorry, I’m not complaining about the vast majority of average players I’m talking about stamplars like kiri or dk’s like chief and being competitive enough to be able to match into them and not have your class inherently handicapped.

Open world pugs aren’t the issue. It’s when a player is even competent enough on their class that it generates such a lead over a sorc.

8k dmg to? Mines/prison/reach/LL?

Nice 2h sets for the master staff that you run for a cc. Oh yes use prison because its that much better. Haven’t you seen the meteor combo?! Right because I want to rely on casting a 4th ability in the combo just to stun and enable the dmg goes through or wait for the 180 cost meteor to push kills.

2h change also applies to everyone on classes that can already stack 2 damage sets and sustain better than sorc. While sorc runs shackle lich to maintain mag.

Light attack damage also applying to everyone and holy ****... wow. Light attack pressure. Damn. Amazing. Class saved