ESO Class Representative Program

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

This just shows how little the combat designers know.

It's also a bad idea."The selected players should have a deep understanding of at least one class". No, that should be all classes, and that should be the devs.

The devs should have this knowledge, yes. However, a community representative (Not someone who has their own agenda, but compiles that of others as well under their own, making it easily digestible and more easily responded to in length) will allow the developers to share their vision/direction in a much more efficient manner (in a similar vein to the Quarterly Combat Updates).

QuebraRegra wrote: »

This reminds me of TURBINE's failings with the LOTRO "Players Council".. seem familiar at all?

*shakes head*

https://www.mmobomb.com/news/ex-lotro-dev-dishes-turbines-missteps/

And it should be looked at, observed, and learned from.
I hope that the devs and PR look at this as an experiment. Not something that will surely work out. But something that they are entrusting the community with. A community whose actions are fully capable of burning the experiment to the ground.

Lexxypwns · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

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Lexxypwns wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Its simple. If people want to do it, go make an indepth writeup like joy_division did about magplars but for their respected class. Earn your spot.

I seriously hope its not 10 for each class.

And what if your main class, the one you’d be most comfortable advising, only needs some minor nerfs+some QoL improvements in its current state?

Should someone write up a 5000 word forum post saying Mageblade is mostly fine but will need changes based on decisions with other classes?

you can start by writing up and addressing the recent crit heal ninja nerf... thanks for your support.

I think it’s necessary.

However, I think it needs be done in conjunction with lowering the effectiveness of other defensive mechanics and defile while compensating some classes with slightly higher base healing and adjusting of a few problematic offensive skills which in the new lower healing environment allow too much concurrent damage to recover from

I’ve posted about this quite a lot. Crit heals are specifically what is making defile+befoul stacking necessary(otherwise nobody can die if they build for crit healing) and they’re also one of the two things keeping stamblade unbalanced.

@Drdeath20 the fact that someone else has a different point of view is why the discussions between representatives and the community need to be transparent and open to community feedback.

Edit: FYI, there’s no way I’d do this unless I’m drawing a salary from ZoS. This isn’t an argument for me to be a rep. I’m not gonna waste my time with these Devs that have consistently ignored the players they’ve consulted unless it’s about some money. Helping people on forums is different from doing free work for a Triple A MMO

I’m disappointed because I think you’d do a great job because of your even view even on the classes you play to be honest with what they need but I definitely understand where you stand. I wouldn’t want to do it but not due to being a free resource; but I’d find it too much of a responsibility to everyone that plays the classes to attempt to speak for anyone if it was going to make a difference; and it’s a waste of time if it’s not.

They’ve literally been awful to their playerbase. Often poor communication, ignoring PTS feedback, and don’t even get me started on their predatory cash shop tricks - over pricing items, limited time whale bait, RNG crates, poorly made costumes, no cross-server usage, etc.

As such, I don’t think I’ll be doing any favors for ZoS. I love this community and helping players makes me really happy because I know how much the help I’ve received changed the game for me. ZoS are really terrible tbh and until I see a dramatic and sustained shift in their culture I won’t do anything to help them unless I’m being financially compensated.

I can’t fault people that are willing to do this, but I’m not the one

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

clv wrote: »

i don't think ten people per class is anywhere near enough considering that a considerable amount of pve/pvpers focus far more on their preferred game type, spec, and playstyle, as considering as well the intrinsic bias of a player. but it's a good start.

Unfortunately, I don't think the idea is what you're thinking. It isn't picking the brains of 10 people about something, but rather picking 10 people to volunteer to aggregate data, and who also have experience in the field they're aggregating the data from.
(Of course, the players themselves actually aggregating the data is something to be tested, as they may very well only talk about their viewpoint)

clv · March 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

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clv wrote: »

i don't think ten people per class is anywhere near enough considering that a considerable amount of pve/pvpers focus far more on their preferred game type, spec, and playstyle, as considering as well the intrinsic bias of a player. but it's a good start.

Unfortunately, I don't think the idea is what you're thinking. It isn't picking the brains of 10 people about something, but rather picking 10 people to volunteer to aggregate data, and who also have experience in the field they're aggregating the data from.
(Of course, the players themselves actually aggregating the data is something to be tested, as they may very well only talk about their viewpoint)

if it's data aggregation then surely limiting sample size is nothing but detrimental?

Lexxypwns · March 2018

clv wrote: »

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Avran_Sylt wrote: »

clv wrote: »

i don't think ten people per class is anywhere near enough considering that a considerable amount of pve/pvpers focus far more on their preferred game type, spec, and playstyle, as considering as well the intrinsic bias of a player. but it's a good start.

Unfortunately, I don't think the idea is what you're thinking. It isn't picking the brains of 10 people about something, but rather picking 10 people to volunteer to aggregate data, and who also have experience in the field they're aggregating the data from.
(Of course, the players themselves actually aggregating the data is something to be tested, as they may very well only talk about their viewpoint)

if it's data aggregation then surely limiting sample size is nothing but detrimental?

This is why the representative to dev communication must be transparent, to ensure that the community as a whole can contribute and ensure concerns are being addressed.

This way the community has access to the representatives and also to Dev to Representatives communication and we can have an opportunity to discuss things overall in an open, transparent environment.

Izaki · March 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

This just shows how little the combat designers know.

It's also a bad idea."The selected players should have a deep understanding of at least one class". No, that should be all classes, and that should be the devs.

Its pretty much impossible for devs to know their game as well as some hardcore players, since the devs spend more time tweaking the game than actually playing it. The devs are people too. They have a life beyond ESO. Plus you won't see any devs in top PvE raiding guilds for a number of reasons. So it doesn't show anything, except the fact that ZOS are willing to let the players help with the balancing decisions.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

This is interesting cause they only want 10 players. I assume that's 5 for pve and 5 for pvp, which means the class rep will not be a (for example) stamblade rep or a magblade rep, but a NIGHTBLADE rep.

I know who I would've nominated for stamblade or magblade alone, there are some great players on these forums. Nominating one player to decide over both stam and mag aspects will be hard though. Especially for classes like dk where a spec is more than fine while the other is meh.

I say they should make it 20 class reps. 4 per class, 2 mag, 2 stam for pvp and pve respectively. It wouldn't be a good idea to have for example a stamblade main decide over magblade balancing, or a stamdk main decide over magdk.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Agreed. I had this conversation with @Blobsky today. It would be a ton of work for one person to provide detailed feedback and suggestions on endgame PVE as well as competitive PVP. Splitting the load between PvP and PVE for each class spec would allow more thorough testing.

RoMarQ · March 2018

My suggestion for a good choice:

+ Need to Mastering at least 2 classes ( knowing basically what makes a class strong/weak comparing to others in various environments )

+ Also needs to know that PVP is completely different from PVE ( needs to be competent in both scenarios, like knowing how a change would affect both PVP and PVE )

+ Be fair when giving opinions about a class, no favoritism.

Those points are directed for all roles

MacCait · March 2018

I vote @Gilliamtherogue for Nightblade class

Savos_Saren · March 2018

+1 to all that believe we're going to need more than a few people for each class

From a DK perspective, not only is there Stam and Mag Tanks, Stam and Mag DPS, Mag Healers...

...but then you have the duelers/soloers, the group PVPers, and the PVEers.

There's a few people on this forum who are fantastic duelers... but have no clue about group play (and vice versa).

Morgul667 · March 2018

Great initiative :-)

Quantum_V · March 2018

Really like the initiative! 'Keep your friends close, but Development team closer' - Quantum, 2018

Haha!

Riddari · March 2018

As long as I get a Templar tank resembling a paladin out of this I'll recommend anyone

maxjapank · March 2018

For Templars, I'd vote for @Cinbri . Very balanced in their approach to what is too much or too little.

ofSunhold · March 2018

Excellent.

I hope you don't mind if I take your names in vain, @Joy_Division and @Gilliamtherogue and @Vaoh and @NightbladeMechanics and [PVPer name redacted]

lucky_Sage · March 2018

this is a good idea and for those who are saying that this is and idea for for someone who knows 1 class. for someone to master a class they are going to have to know all the flaws and strengths of it and how others classes work with and against them.

RavenSworn · March 2018

Of the known people that I know of here in the forums, I vote for these players:

@Gilliamtherogue for his outstanding knowledge and in depth look into nightblades and classes in general.

@Lynx7386 has nightblades close to his heart and an avid advocate for how the classes and weapons should work.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO while we do disagree on stuff before, I vote this guy for his excellent breakdown of abilities and their numbers. Math has always been his forte.

@Tasear for her sorcerer healer skillz. Arguably one of the best healers ingame.

@Nolic1 is Sherman's Gaming. He has in depth understanding of each of the classes basic mechanics and does off kilter builds that work.

I would love to vote myself too

but I'm just an average Joe that is trying his luck for this

VaxtinTheWolf · March 2018

Save Nightblade Tanks.

Also, While attempting to use Healthy Offering I noticed it is often blacked out on the bar due to nearby pets or something which makes me have to turn my screen away to use the skill on myself.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Leandor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno have you considered including maybe one or two players who are average and not top end? This usually gives a different point of view that ensures that whatever comes out of this council is applicable to the masses instead of only the top end.

This is very important. I've seen this sort of project in other MMOs and it ended up with a cadre of über min-maxers who really did no favours to the hoi polloi.

Own · March 2018

Rickter wrote: »

I second these nominations
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NyassaV wrote: »

For nightblade Gilliam and @NightbladeMechanics would be good choices. Both these players know a lot about other classes too as well as the base game.

@stileanima has done some awesome stuff with Warden in PvE and I've seen her do stamplar as well!

@GandTheImpaler and @BagOfTatoes (not sure if Tatoes has a forum account) would be great for sorc in a PvP sense but as for PvE I'm not sure who to recommend. I've seen @Inigo play a sorc successfully and he has knowledge of the game and it's mechanics so he would be a good choice.

For Stam DK I can only think of @Highpolicy and for magic DK @Quantum_V comes to mind but there may be someone else

Mag Templar has been left in the dust so much IDK who to mention for that.

I've got enough free time on my hands to help and give suggestions and would love to give my own feedback but I don't see why anyone would pick me for anything while Gilliam still lives. I've seldom heard of more constructive and unbiased feedback than from him.

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technohic wrote: »

For as long as theres been Templars; there has seemed to be @Joy_Division for information and none that do as much work as @Cinbri in every test cycle. Just lets not forget about Stamplar as I think they are both mainly magicka there.

@sunshall StamDK. Best mitigation while still being able to kill.

EDIT: I love this thread idea Also!

Qbiken · March 2018

Are there any restrictions regarding geographic location when nominating?

Own · March 2018

clv wrote: »

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Avran_Sylt wrote: »

clv wrote: »

i don't think ten people per class is anywhere near enough considering that a considerable amount of pve/pvpers focus far more on their preferred game type, spec, and playstyle, as considering as well the intrinsic bias of a player. but it's a good start.

Unfortunately, I don't think the idea is what you're thinking. It isn't picking the brains of 10 people about something, but rather picking 10 people to volunteer to aggregate data, and who also have experience in the field they're aggregating the data from.
(Of course, the players themselves actually aggregating the data is something to be tested, as they may very well only talk about their viewpoint)

if it's data aggregation then surely limiting sample size is nothing but detrimental?

It's not to fully test, just people in the field to find issues.
I bet they check through /bug history for amount of actual bugs found/fixed on the nominated account
It would be worth having the right people

Vaoh · March 2018

This is very good! Surprised I didn’t see this thread earlier

Although I’d like to do something like this, it feels strange to take one of my two main classes (Sorc and Warden) to then speak for everyone in the community on their balance. Still I might be up for one of these roles and would love to help if possible.

As a side note, please allow this awesome guy @Gilliamtherogue to represent all classes. He has very good feedback and is extraordinarily thorough in his testing/analysis.

KiraTsukasa · March 2018

Yes, this is exactly what we need. A handful of players who "know a class" telling everyone else how they should play. Because you KNOW that's what's going to happen. "I represent your class so I know it better than you so you should do what I say instead of what works for you." Denying it is foolish, it happens EVERY TIME something like this comes into play. It only ever leads to elitism and these representatives only listening to their friends and manipulating the developers into promoting their way of playing.

Vaoh · March 2018

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Yes, this is exactly what we need. A handful of players who "know a class" telling everyone else how they should play. Because you KNOW that's what's going to happen. "I represent your class so I know it better than you so you should do what I say instead of what works for you." Denying it is foolish, it happens EVERY TIME something like this comes into play. It only ever leads to elitism and these representatives only listening to their friends and manipulating the developers into promoting their way of playing.

With that sort of attitude there’s no way to properly balance this game. You’ll absolutely never be happy.

Some players have mained a class for years and have done toooooons of testing. Very knowledgeable people who know the ins and outs of basically every skill in their class. A lot of these players have completed all content on their classes too. Not a bad place for developers to look if trying to understand the deeper balance and/or lack thereof regarding a class.

What’s currently being done balance-wise is obviously not working. This is a solid attempt at fixing the problems and *hopefully* balancing the game better. Doesn’t this community constantly complain about ZOS’s lack of communication? This seems like a solid attempt at trying.

D0PAMINE · March 2018

Deffinatly @NightbladeMechanics and @Vaoh

FoolishHuman · March 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

What’s currently being done balance-wise is obviously not working.

How exactly is it not working? Just because people complain on this forum a lot? Because I don't see that ingame as much. The game is working fine for the most part.

And I agree with the concern. Some of the suggestions that are popular here are making me a bit concerned if they will be the new norm for the game balance. Things like; Heavy attacks shouldn't be necessary anymore; game needs to become more difficult, Templars are the only healers, DKs the tanks.

And I seriously hope they won't choose any of the guys that wrote about how the balance team should be fired or get cancer or how they are all idiots or other insults that are seen here every day. I don't wanna imagine the quality of the suggestions of these people.

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

Lets hope some of them play Ww, its been due for a overhaul for quite some time...

commdt · March 2018

Ah, I know what you are up to. To gather all 10 in one room and then start to humiliate the one which represents mana DK

Blobsky · March 2018

@cinbri @Sizaansi / @Antiq Templar (Magicka / Magicka / Stamina)
@Blobsky @DDuke Nightblade (Magicka / stam)
@BudgingCrib5 @Soimoin DK (Stamina / Stamina)
@Derra Sorceror (Magicka)
@Sumudan_Zeel @klee Warden (Magicka / Stamina

All my top choices for knowledge of their class in PvP AND PvE