Suspensions for Update 17 XP Exploit
Maintenance for the week of April 7:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 7, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 7, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 7, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• ESO Store for maintenance – April 10, 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC) - 3:00PM EDT (19:00 UTC)
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monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »
Guess the thinking is cheating is cheating and whether it was "only a little" or "huge amounts"; still cheating.
Also, from what I saw in another thread, since closed, it sounds like they suspended accounts 'til they can research more thoroughly so it might be that those who "only cheated a little" or seem to have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time may yet be exonerated.
Oh please..cheating is cheating than why are so many bots running around?
They only suspended these people because they know deep down it was the coders fault and they salty about it3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »
these are people who UNDOUBTEDLY exploited. like figured it out and hopped on 5 alts to do it again...
I didn't do anything like that. I have several alts, including many that are under 50 that I haven't gotten around to leveling and, I didn't play them at all that day.
ZOS hasn't published any detailed information about their methodology here, and it isn't in the letter they send you, either.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
LMar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Fixed that for ya.
That should be "Never exploit" my dear"If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
"Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
Oh please..cheating is cheating than why are so many bots running around?
They only suspended these people because they know deep down it was the coders fault and they salty about it
The one does not preclude the other.
I think your "reasoning" is hogwash, frankly. Yep, bug, and a nasty one at that but even so, cheating. Against ToS. Something being a bug does not excuse exploiting it anymore than an unlocked door is an invitation for theft.
It fascinates me this "oh, it's the devs fault that I took advantage of a bug to cheat". Pretzel logic.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake7 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
I didn't do anything like that. I have several alts, including many that are under 50 that I haven't gotten around to leveling and, I didn't play them at all that day.
ZOS hasn't published any detailed information about their methodology here, and it isn't in the letter they send you, either.
And they likely won't. That'd be akin to saying: Here's how we detect and handle this sort of thing. Now go forth and circumvent it.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake2 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
You apparently missed the part of my comments where I said I didn't know anything about any unusual XP gain. When you're over the CP cap, there is nothing exciting or interesting about gaining more CP. I simply don't pay any attention to it. Why would I react to something I didn't know about?
I assure you I missed nothing and addressed it directly. No one expects you to watch your XP. Getting a CP here or there is nothing to be alarmed by nor would it be of notice when over CP cap. Getting multiple CP with every mob killed is another matter entirely. If the alarming rate at which they were being literally spammed across your screen was not enough to react to then I hope it leads to greater awareness in the future.
Even at 1000 CP you would gain a few CP per kill due to the XP formula. After killing a few packs of mobs and gaining 30+ CP such a thing becomes apparent due to the repetition and frequency of the events.4 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »
The one does not preclude the other.
I think your "reasoning" is hogwash, frankly. Yep, bug, and a nasty one at that but even so, cheating. Against ToS. Something being a bug does not excuse exploiting it anymore than an unlocked door is an invitation for theft.
It fascinates me this "oh, it's the devs fault that I took advantage of a bug to cheat". Pretzel logic.
Just because something I'd against toss doesn't mean anything..they can choose to take responsibility that it's their fault. This exploit took no extra effort..just play the game. End of story.
It's not pretzel logic it's factual.
Tos also says botting is against the rules..but it's THIS bug they know they messed up and refuse to admit it.
Unsuspend these people and give them 5 million gold each for the inconvenience. Make a public apology for acting unrash.
Have you ever seen them shut the servers to fix a bug that ruins the game for players? Nope because they only care about themselves. Their feelings were hurt because they caused a bug that gave players extra xp and it ENRAGED the staff that players got free stuff.
Your life can be threatened and they wouldn't do a thing..all tos rules are broken they never do a thing but a few players get free xp WATCH OUT the salty staff take IMMEDIATE action.
SickeningEdited by monktoasty on February 20, 2018 5:16AM3 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
Just because something I'd against toss doesn't mean anything..they can choose to take responsibility that it's their fault. This exploit took no extra effort..just play the game. End of story.
It's not pretzel logic it's factual.
Tos also says botting is against the rules..but it's THIS bug they know they messed up and refuse to admit it.
Unsuspend these people and give them 5 million gold each for the inconvenience. Make a public apology for acting unrash.
Have you ever seen them shut the servers to fix a bug that ruins the game for players? Nope because they only care about themselves. Their feelings were hurt because they caused a bug that gave players extra xp and it ENRAGED the staff that players got free stuff.
More of the same, although I had to laugh at the bolded. That is exactly what the players need to do. If you have a go at something that you know is dodgy, well, accept the responsibility that "you" chose to do it and you will pay whatever price ZMax decides. Their game, their rules. If those rules are too onerous, then the exit door is open.
And how, pray tell, do you know that their "feelings were hurt" and that they were "enraged"? Mighty fertile imagination you've got there. Yeah, I'm sure they weren't happy about it. No one is when they make a mistake but you've moseyed into a level that I seriously doubt occurred.
Actually they DID admit it was a bug and set about fixing it.
I'm LOLing at your suggestion of giving them 5 million. Now, if someone is suspended for the two weeks ZMax has said they will be investigating and they are found not guilty then it would be a nice thing to offer them some compensation but you are advocating something that is just ridiculous.
Most of those people CHOSE to have a go at exploiting. Too bad, so sad, time to pay the piper.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake6 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »
More of the same, although I had to laugh at the bolded. That is exactly what the players need to do. If you have a go at something that you know is dodgy, well, accept the responsibility that "you" chose to do it and you will pay whatever price ZMax decides. Their game, their rules. If those rules are too onerous, then the exit door is open.
And how, pray tell, do you know that their "feelings were hurt" and that they were "enraged"? Mighty fertile imagination you've got there. Yeah, I'm sure they weren't happy about it. No one is when they make a mistake but you've moseyed into a level that I seriously doubt occurred.
Actually they DID admit it was a bug and set about fixing it.
I'm LOLing at your suggestion of giving them 5 million. Now, if someone is suspended for the two weeks ZMax has said they will be investigating and they are found not guilty then it would be a nice thing to offer them some compensation but you are advocating something that is just ridiculous.
Most of those people CHOSE to have a go at exploiting. Too bad, so sad, time to pay the piper.
All the players did was play the game. It's zos fault the bug exists..the player didn't go out of their way to break the game and get more zp..they just...killed stuff as nornal.
Sorry but you are in the wrong here as well as zos.
No excited occurred here..just players playing the game.
End of story.
Now unsuspend them and apologize.
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DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
All the players did was play the game. It's zos fault the bug exists..the player didn't go out of their way to break the game and get more zp..they just...killed stuff as nornal.
Sorry but you are in the wrong here as well as zos.
No excited occurred here..just players playing the game.
End of story.
Now unsuspend them and apologize.
No, at least some of them chose to cheat. That is the "end of story".
But I see we aren't going to agree here and whilst I give you credit for persistence, your logic is borked.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake6 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »
No, at least some of them chose to cheat. That is the "end of story".
But I see we aren't going to agree here and whilst I give you credit for persistence, your logic is borked.
Playing the game as intended..ie..killing stuff..is not choosing to cheat. Sorry charlie..no way you can twist this to be the players fault.
There is no rules saying stop play8ng the game and log out if some whacky bug happens. If this were the case..I'd be stop playing all the time as handfuls of bugs happen to me.
It just happens that the one time a bug gives the player something..they get all bent of out shape..I WISH they were get bent out of shape when I get stuck in a chair or can't finish a quest
Edited by monktoasty on February 20, 2018 6:02AM4 -
Xoz✭✭✭So, you permanently banned 80+ accounts for exploiting a cosmetic skin & some trash weapons (many of which were first-time offenders), yet you temporarily ban accounts that took part in an exploit that actually gave them a huge advantage over other players?
Okay. So why not go back & reduce the previous permanent bans to temporary? They were clearly unfair. Or is doing that too much effort for you to put forth?
You can take your time to adjust these accounts, but you couldn't with the last offenders?
You only hurt yourself when you permanently ban paying customers for trivial exploits such as these.
This is a step in the right direction, but the way the previous situation was handled was beyond disappointing and seriously needs to be rectified.Edited by Xoz on February 20, 2018 6:27AMPS4 & PC
AD1 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is truly amazing the excuses people come up with. Even if you had chat turned off, XP noticed turned off, CP gain turned off you'd have to be exceptionally daft to not notice something was up. On a normal day in the middle of the day, there are what, 2-3 solo people maybe a group of 5 in an IC district. Now there are a few hundred people running around, it wasn't like that on IC launch day. Rumor is, that it wasn't all of IC that was bugged, just one district. So if that is correct, with hundreds of people chasing mobs in one district, and not notice something was wrong......5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, you permanently banned 80+ accounts for exploiting a cosmetic skin & some trash weapons (many of which were first-time offenders), yet you temporarily ban accounts that took part in an exploit that actually gave them a huge advantage over other players?
Okay. So why not go back & reduce the previous permanent bans to temporary? They were clearly unfair. Or is doing that too much effort for you to put forth?
You can take your time to adjust these accounts, but you couldn't with the last offenders?
You only hurt yourself when you permanently ban paying customers for trivial exploits such as these.
This is a step in the right direction, but the way the previous situation was handled was beyond disappointing and seriously needs to be rectified.
What are you talking about? What "huge advantage" did I get from extra XP when my toon was fully leveled and my CP were way over the cap?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Xoz✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
What are you talking about? What "huge advantage" did I get from extra XP when my toon was fully leveled and my CP were way over the cap?
You seem to be taking what I said quite personal. If you are fully leveled, perhaps what I said does not apply to you at this current moment. In any case, many of them likely gained an incredible advantage over other players.PS4 & PC
AD3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
Playing the game as intended..ie..killing stuff..is not choosing to cheat. Sorry charlie..no way you can twist this to be the players fault.
There is no rules saying stop play8ng the game and log out if some whacky bug happens. If this were the case..I'd be stop playing all the time as handfuls of bugs happen to me.
It just happens that the one time a bug gives the player something..they get all bent of out shape..I WISH they were get bent out of shape when I get stuck in a chair or can't finish a quest
Playing the game as intended...I.e. Killing stuff...while receiving bugged exp on the order of 1.9 million exp per mob that is obviously not how the the game is intended to work and continuing to kill and playing the game, thus gaining bugged and unintended exp without reporting the bug and stopping the action causing the bug as required by the TOS and COC, is where the cheating came in.
Its not about just killing mobs, its about continuing to do so when the correct course of action is to report the glitch and stop killing mobs. Its about a failure to follow the TOS when players encountered a major bug.
But I don't pay attention to exp - take that up with ZOS.
But its ZOS' fault! - how does that change a player's responsibility to follow the TOS they agreed to?3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »
Just because something I'd against toss doesn't mean anything..they can choose to take responsibility that it's their fault. This exploit took no extra effort..just play the game. End of story.
It's not pretzel logic it's factual.
Tos also says botting is against the rules..but it's THIS bug they know they messed up and refuse to admit it.
Unsuspend these people and give them 5 million gold each for the inconvenience. Make a public apology for acting unrash.
Have you ever seen them shut the servers to fix a bug that ruins the game for players? Nope because they only care about themselves. Their feelings were hurt because they caused a bug that gave players extra xp and it ENRAGED the staff that players got free stuff.
Your life can be threatened and they wouldn't do a thing..all tos rules are broken they never do a thing but a few players get free xp WATCH OUT the salty staff take IMMEDIATE action.
Sickening
There is so much wrong in there one actually doesn’t know where to start. For starters, most exploit take no extra effort. Remember the salvation set exploit? There was a bug that gave players who wore it a huge amount of weapon damage and not the intended 150. Players were of course picking that up immediately and were running vMA in 15 minutes.
With your logic that wouldn’t be an exploit as well. Simply playing the game. A classic one is the banker assistant exploit. You could bank your crafting surveys right before approaching the spot, and they didn’t get consumed. People were doing this for hours on end and became millionaires in that time. Simply playing the game. ZOS did take the servers down for a hot fix. Players got a 3 day suspension but kept their gains. ZOS directly encouraged future exploiting with that lukewarm response.
In the end, every action in the game can be justified as simply playing the game. vSA HM exploit? Simply playing the game. Players are in the trial and using a weapon line skill. Everything is simply playing the game if you give the players carte blanche.
And yes, ZOS does take the servers down for players sakes - gap closer bug comes to mind, or the mentioned survey exploit. They just don’t do it gladly because every downtime is a sure [snip] in here.
Every exploit fixed is a good thing. Every action taken also. In my book ZOS is still to lenient.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on February 21, 2018 2:24PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar9 -
Latin✭✭✭Exploiting bugged xp is a severe offence, should have issued a stronger punishment like a month-long suspension, a permanent ban or to reset the player level to 1 in order to deter future offenders.
From what I could infer, some degrees of transparency from ZOS regarding their interpretation of evidence used against players who are deemed to have exploited the bug may be beneficial. While ignorance of the bug is not a valid excuse, the deciding factor is on the intention of the player, which can be difficult for ZOS to prove purely on the digital evidence. A degree of transparency in this respect allows the players to show cause and defend themselves against the allegation.
Obviously, if they are considered guilty of exploiting the bug, they should be issued with a much heavier penalty than they were here.2 -
Blobsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭RIP
cant say im sorry.
it was an unintentional bug. keyword: unintentional. that means, ZOS didnt mean for it to happen, it was a mistake, and that doesnt mean its ok to take advantage of said mistake. taking advantage of a bad situation is exploiting the situation.
obviously, as Gina states, not everyone was exploiting. frankly, seeing people with 1200 + CP is a little head scratchingly suspect
You forget that some of us played since beta. I'm 1150CP ish and wasnt even online that week. I know legit players who PvE more who are over 2000CPYt Channell: Blobsky
DC EU Nightblade
Owner of 'The Travelling Merchant' - Craglorn trade guild since near release!2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Most MMO companies run a strike system yes. The idea is you might be innocent or not know and need a slap one or two times, if you somehow keep finding yourself exploiting then yeah kiss your account goodbye.
One would hope that's true, for the sake of the people who were mistakenly labeled as offenders here. Seems to me the worst part of all this is the strike against your account... Does ZOS go by baseball rules? 3 strikes and poof goes all your progress/collectibles/etc.? (Read: considerable time, effort, and (for some of us) money spent supporting their product)
Unless you've disabled the UI element there is a rather large and noticeable "You gain a CP" just above the middle of the screen, as well as a sound effect. Even if you don't care about CP you should notice that one CP/kill pull is more than you would normally be getting.Emma_Overload wrote: »You apparently missed the part of my comments where I said I didn't know anything about any unusual XP gain. When you're over the CP cap, there is nothing exciting or interesting about gaining more CP. I simply don't pay any attention to it. Why would I react to something I didn't know about?
Whenever account actions due to exploiting happen there are always those who claim innocence or ignorance on forums. However it's not the community which needs to be convinced and most will take such claims with a pinch of salt. Anyone who isn't happy with the suspension should be contacting ZOS directly.
You're talking about the differenced between a bug and exploiting a bug. A item which doesn't work and nets you no gain is a bug, one which can be abused to get gains is an exploit (because you're exploiting the bug).monktoasty wrote: »Playing the game as intended..ie..killing stuff..is not choosing to cheat. Sorry charlie..no way you can twist this to be the players fault.
There is no rules saying stop play8ng the game and log out if some whacky bug happens. If this were the case..I'd be stop playing all the time as handfuls of bugs happen to me.
It just happens that the one time a bug gives the player something..they get all bent of out shape..I WISH they were get bent out of shape when I get stuck in a chair or can't finish a quest
There is a ToS which clearly states you will not abuse bugs to get gains, this is standard practice in every MMO because it's required to keep the game fair for all playing.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."4 -
pattyLtd✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Playing the game is not exploiting. Continuing to play the game when you realize that "hey, playing the game by killing mobs is netting way more exp than it should", failing to report and continuing to exploit the bugged exp? That's exploiting.
If you seriously think you wouldn't have noticed the exp gain from 1.9 million a mob over time, take that up with ZOS. Regardless, the TOS and Code of Conduct everyone who plays agreed to is pretty clear the you need to report and stop exploiting bugs when you find them. Does the TOS exist to cover ZOS' behind? Sure, but how does that absolve you and other players of the responsibilities you agreed to?
I didn't gain anything i'm on console so it doesn't apply to me.
It's mostly the fact that this is the only thing they respond to and act on while the game has alot bigger problems then this which never get resolved.
I would be humble and consider apologizing while pulling our hair out looking for a way to fix this mess we unleashed yet again.
Edit: Just read yesterdays patch notes and adjusting my tone in case i have been jumping the gun on not addressing the other issues.
Still think punishment for bugs is something to be very carefull with. It feels wrong to me no matter what some "Code of Conduct" says.Edited by pattyLtd on February 20, 2018 9:14AMEnglish is not my native language, no grammar police please, tyvm3 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Playing the game as intended...I.e. Killing stuff...while receiving bugged exp on the order of 1.9 million exp per mob that is obviously not how the the game is intended to work and continuing to kill and playing the game, thus gaining bugged and unintended exp without reporting the bug and stopping the action causing the bug as required by the TOS and COC, is where the cheating came in.
Its not about just killing mobs, its about continuing to do so when the correct course of action is to report the glitch and stop killing mobs. Its about a failure to follow the TOS when players encountered a major bug.
But I don't pay attention to exp - take that up with ZOS.
But its ZOS' fault! - how does that change a player's responsibility to follow the TOS they agreed to?
^^^That. Thanks for posting it, I was getting a headache from effectively pounding my head against a very solid wall.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
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You forget that some of us played since beta. I'm 1150CP ish and wasnt even online that week. I know legit players who PvE more who are over 2000CP
There were also previous xp exploits as well but ZoS did nothing with that I believe0 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's amusing how exploiters always play victims when they got caught
Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!8
This discussion has been closed.