Mag Sorcerers Need a Buff (ZOS Please READ)

Gilvoth · February 2018

Calboy wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks mag sorc in pvp is fine. I have an insane time every time trying to kill those ***.

^

Drakkdjinn · February 2018

Magsorc fotm’ers abandoned the class, Msorc mains still reck face.

Didgerion · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

L

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

That combo only works if the other guy stands there and takes it. Most of them don’t. I can do a similar three or four move instant death rotation with a Stamina nightblade, but most people block, dodge, and heal.

I don’t think hardened ward duration needs a buff. A shield under pressure won’t last six seconds regardless, more like two or three. If that’s a huge issue for anyone, there’s even a set that will increase the duration by a second or two next patch. What needs to change is the cost of it, it’s a tad too high for a six second shield.

Yeah that's why a listed CC there - it forces players to take my combos. Sorc has the undodgable and unblockable CC you know..

And it is very ok not to kill players with your combos - it is called ballance - it would've been broken if your combo would give you a 100% guaranteed kill - And I feel that a buff to sorc's burst will make it over powered.

I think that sorcs are quite balanced - I think that high resistance stamina builds over-perform - especially on stam NB and stam Warden

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2018

OP your right

good luck though...the hate on Mag Sorc's is real....

Didgerion · February 2018

Hollery wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I don't think mag sorcs need a buff.
They underperfom in Cirodfiil (yes, not Cyrodiil) but for different reasons:
1. We have streak and can kite limitlessly unlike Nightblade because shade doesn't work
2. New High mitigation medium builds are way too efficient.
3. Health increase of combat spirit is badly balanced in the current high resistance - high burst meta.

I think that stamina builds need to be nerfed a bit or magica builds need to be buffed a bit.
For example I cannot find answers to the following:
1. Why Medium Armor(MA) can cheap-rolldodge and Light Armor(LA) cannot? - roll-dodge is a powerful tool to mitigate damage and LA needs it as much as MA does. Also it is the only way to break roots (not quite true I know but very close).
I agree in some capacity, Medium should have cheap roll, light armor almost as cheap, heavy has increased cost by a mall yet fair margin. The difference is that medium armor should have the blade cloak effect attached to medium passives and give a temporary mitigation buff after successfully dodging an attack. Remove Major/Minor evasion too and make shuffle still remove snares but have a 30% reduced cost

4. Why MA has a running speed buff and LA not? Because lightweight robes aren't fitted as well
5. Why there are no affordable magica skills to remove snares - and no magica discount on skills after breaking free?

All this adds up and as result magica builds are gimped in PVP.

You make a lot of very good and very bad points here... Let me try and edit

I don't see where I'm wrong. Let me try to bring more arguments:

- Some stamina builds can outrun a streaking sorc - and streaking away is costly-unlike running with 7 medium armor pieces.
- I've seen 0 athletes competing in leather outfits...oh yeah leather helps while riding a bike --- I guess riding a horse too maybe? But definitely leather does not help you run faster!

Minalan · February 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

L

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

That combo only works if the other guy stands there and takes it. Most of them don’t. I can do a similar three or four move instant death rotation with a Stamina nightblade, but most people block, dodge, and heal.

I don’t think hardened ward duration needs a buff. A shield under pressure won’t last six seconds regardless, more like two or three. If that’s a huge issue for anyone, there’s even a set that will increase the duration by a second or two next patch. What needs to change is the cost of it, it’s a tad too high for a six second shield.

Yeah that's why a listed CC there - it forces players to take my combos. Sorc has the undodgable and unblockable CC you know..

And it is very ok not to kill players with your combos - it is called ballance - it would've been broken if your combo would give you a 100% guaranteed kill - And I feel that a buff to sorc's burst will make it over powered.

I think that sorcs are quite balanced - I think that high resistance stamina builds over-perform - especially on stam NB and stam Warden

I can’t disagree on the stamina builds, but I’d rather see some of these imbalances fixed with small, calculated buffs to those who underperform rather than massive class-destroying nerfs.

You know what ZOS likes to do though right?

aeowulf · February 2018

Watched a mag sorc solo shipwreck world boss last week, I don't think they need buffs, least none that affect PvE.

All the screams for other classes to be nerfed mean that all classes get nerfed as undoubtably someone else is screaming for yours to be nerfed. I feel all classes are getting closer to being balanced, but they loose flavour in doing so. PvP stambldes, all the nerfs to sneak attacks meant they were less effective in their thing. Other classes then needed to be brought down to the same level if they too were over performing in 'their thing' - result is flavour goes.

Many changes have been unwarranted, class based sustain changes for one, they sucked a ton of fun from certain classes, and completely removed role viability from others. That's a way bigger issues. Don't see many sorc tanks in PvE now...

Emma_Overload · February 2018

I feel like I've been waiting for this thread all my life...but I'm at work and don't have time to post, LOL.

Aedaryl · February 2018

Well, I have the time to make a constructive post about why magicka sorc can't compete with meta.

SUSTAIN

FACTS :

On a stamina build, you can run 2 damage sets with Dubious Camoran Throne food. 1.3k-1.5k stam regen you AND you are able to sustain extremely well.

On a sorcerer, you need to run lich + witchmother and you can't sustain agaisnt stamina build. Lich alone isn't enough. You need something more like draining poisons, or minor magickasteal.

Being able to sustain without sustain set VS Not being able to sustain with the best sustain is not balanced.

EXPLANATIONS :

Stamina can sustain on heavy attacks, this is so strong that they rely 80% on heavies to sustain. The stamina heavies, (hello 1&S) are short, can be easely introduce in the rotation.
Also, the cost of stamina skill is cheaper than magicka skill.

Magicka can't sustain on heavy attacks, because the channel time is too long. You can't spend 2s + not shielding for sustain. The heavy is so obvious than anyone can block the last tick of the heavy and delete the magicka you was supposed to have.

For the sorc, some people will say you they have no problem to sustain, this is fake sustain.
Harness magicka, the most broken defensive ability in the game, will make you infinite sustain if you have something magicka touching you. Most fight in openworld will be easely sustainable because harness is a shield that give a lot magicka back. But when you face stamina builds, the reality come back and is hard, you can't just sustain. Sorc can't sustain alone, they got carry by harness magicka.

Also, shield cost far too much, When need to refresh your shields every 2-3s because you are heavely pressured, you can't sustain it, while stamina builds will mitigate more damage by blocking and will be able to do something else.

NOTE : The gap between stamina sustain and magicka sustain will be even bigger next patch, because stamina builds will return double ressource from heavy attacks from off balance change, while magicka build don't have easy and reliable access to both off balance (expect mdk) and heavy attacks. Also, the cost of block is reduced.

SOLUTIONS :

Make magicka heavy attacks far shorter like stamina one, of course reduce the damage to keep a ratio damage/channel time equal.

Reduce the cost of all damage shield by 500.

Nerf harness magicka by nerfing the magicka back. For the sake of balance having a defensive spamable ability that give you more ressource than it cost is a bad design.

GEAR

FACTS :

You can't run with two taves 2 sets of 5 pieces + 1 complete monster set.

You can run like stamina builds 2 sets of 5 pieces + 1 complete monster set. The stamina sets weapon damage proc make you able to still run 5/5/2 even if you have 2h + 1&S/dual wield. You can also do it with magicka templar and magicka dk, even with magicka NB but this one is not optimal.

PROBLEMS :

Sorc doesn't have a class spammable and a reliable class heal. (Matriarch isn't reliable because it can be killed, so you need 1.5s to recast it then one more second to get the heal). Sorcerer are forced to run destro/restro and so they are forced to loose set bonus/monster sets.

SOLUTIONS :

Make 2h weapons able to be 2 pieces of a set. Since stamina build can already run 5/5/2 with 2h, and since bow is trash, there is no reason to not make this change.

There is also a problem with damage mitigation. 1h&S + huge HoT + high resistance is far better in every situations than shield. Especially when the number of ennemies increases. More ennemies they are, trasher damage shields are.

A good fix : nerf the shield stacking with a minor/major system + make shield having mitigation when more people are on you (1v1 = no mitigation on shield, 1v2 = shield having 15% mitigation, 1v3 = shield having 30% mitigation, .... , capped to something like 50%).

BUT before bringing that, we would need to wait how the sustain and gear change would affect meta, and then seing if it's needed.

KramUzibra · February 2018

Calboy wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks mag sorc in pvp is fine. I have an insane time every time trying to kill those ***.

They are fine it's just a difficult class to master but once you do you realize you have a very efficient class that effectively hits all aspects of pvp very well. Good sorcs have near impenetrable shields that they weave in between dmg rotations. Makes them one of the top classes in pvp in defense and single target dps. Although unnecessary those that utilize line of site and streak have incredible mobility. Most great sorcs do not struggle with sustain and those that did will be getting a buff since next patch they will be able to get off darkndeal more consistently and reliably. I agree with you 100% oh I forgot not they have all this and can effectively fight from any distance with a great ranged execute and not loose dps. Where as most Stam users with the exception of snipe blades have to close the gap and is forced to fight in your face. Lmao sorcs need a buff! Yeah right.

LittlePinkDot · February 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff, our shields have been nerfed into the ground by being cut in half in pvp and the time limited to 6 seconds and Shield Breaker makes it to where you get hit for more with Shields, with one hit my shields are gone and I have to reapply them. This problem is also compounded by damage health glyphs and poisons. Dark Conversion has never been reliable as a heal because it is interruptible or waste an ultimate to save my life. Streak has had the cost increased and people can travel further than we can using crit rush or similar skill so we can't get away or reposition ourselves in the battle field. Crystal frags have been nerfed by taking the stun & knock back down and Crystal Blast is worthless because it is interruptible. I have to wear light armor to be affective but in doing so I can't survive hardly any focus at all. And, now you guys are giving interrupt a cool down, so crushing shock is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

I don't think mag sorcs need a buff.
They underperfom in Cirodfiil but for different reasons:
1. Stamina builds are way too mobile.
2. New High mitigation medium builds are way too efficient.
3. Health increase of combat spirit is badly balanced in the current high resistance - high burst meta.

I think that stamina builds need to be nerfed a bit or magica builds need to be buffed a bit.
For example I cannot find answers to the following:
1. Why Medium Armor(MA) can cheap-rolldodge and Light Armor(LA) cannot? - roll-dodge is a powerful tool to mitigate damage and LA needs it as much as MA does. Also it is the only way to break roots (not quite true I know but very close).
3. Why MA has a running speed buff and LA not?
4. Why there are no affordable magica skills to remove snares - and no magica discount on skills after breaking free?

All this adds up and as result magica builds are gimped in PVP.

Stamina cant be nerfed without making it even more difficult for stamina in Pve content. Stamina doesnt have enough aoe damage, so they need higher single target damage to compensate.

Mazbt · February 2018

if you are talking about a pvp perspective don't even....like seriously. I won't buy it one bit. The small scale/duelling/solo mag sorcs are insanely powerful.

Pinja · February 2018

@Didgerion Where did you get this opinion from... Magica sorcs need a Pvp buff. I suggest a simple restore to the class setting before for clockwork.
Return the Frag stun.

Minalan · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

L

Didgerion wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

I could deal with most of the nerfs if we could actually do decent damage. Frags should hurt and hurt a lot for s skill that has to proc, is slow a projectile thats telegraphed and can be reflected. I like the glass cannon play style but our cannon sucks atm. I'd also like to see some of the mobility put back for us. Maybe drop the streak penally to 2 secs.

The thing is that the mag-sorc's damage is decent. I kill most of the players in 4 seconds: curse + CC+ frag + execute = 1 kill.

But there is a percentage of players there (quickly increasing) that run High resistance - High burst builds. And if the sorcs are buffed to match those builds then they will simply 1 shot the rest of the builds.

I think that ZOS needs to look into those high mitigation-high burst-high mobility builds first - then adjust the damage if needed.

That combo only works if the other guy stands there and takes it. Most of them don’t. I can do a similar three or four move instant death rotation with a Stamina nightblade, but most people block, dodge, and heal.

I don’t think hardened ward duration needs a buff. A shield under pressure won’t last six seconds regardless, more like two or three. If that’s a huge issue for anyone, there’s even a set that will increase the duration by a second or two next patch. What needs to change is the cost of it, it’s a tad too high for a six second shield.

Yeah that's why a listed CC there - it forces players to take my combos. Sorc has the undodgable and unblockable CC you know..

And it is very ok not to kill players with your combos - it is called ballance - it would've been broken if your combo would give you a 100% guaranteed kill - And I feel that a buff to sorc's burst will make it over powered.

I think that sorcs are quite balanced - I think that high resistance stamina builds over-perform - especially on stam NB and stam Warden

I can’t disagree on the stamina builds, but I’d rather see some of these imbalances fixed with small, calculated buffs to those who underperform rather than massive class-destroying nerfs.

Mazbt wrote: »

if you are talking about a pvp perspective don't even....like seriously. I won't buy it one bit. The small scale/duelling/solo mag sorcs are insanely powerful.

If dueling Sorcs are so powerful, then why can’t they place top three in a dueling tourney since CWC? One made top five since then like once?

That’s the issue. They arent that strong.

Results of past tournaments:[/b]

Jan 20, 2018

1st place - Kiri
dw/2h stamplar

2nd - Diamanda
snb/ice staff mDK

3rd - Quantum
snb mDK

4th - Lowpolicy
snb/2h stam DK

5th - Yangnagato
dw/2h stamblade

Jan 13, 2018

1st place - Kodi
snb/2h stamblade

2nd - Zendran
destro mageblade

3rd - Kiri
dw/2h stamplar

4th - Lowpolicy
snb/2h stam DK

5th - Yuri
snb/lightning staff mDK

Jan 6, 2018

1st place - Kodi
stamina warden
He won't be coming on the warden again.

He says he wants to come on his stamblade next week. That'll be a fun show.

2nd place - Truestory NB
destro/resto magicka nightblade

3rd place - Tangard Bedoryan @Sloban
snb/2h stam DK

4th place - AlanFromBehind
dw/resto magicka nightblade
He picked up the class literally a week ago, and I spent all week teaching and prepping him. I'm so proud!

5th place - Jake17
magicka dragonknight

Dec 30, 2017 New Years tournament

1st place - Kodi
snb stam warden

2nd place - Ali Sabre
heavy armor 2h/bow stamblade

3rd place - Tuppy
lvl 40 mDK

4th place - Pelican
destro magicka sorc

5th place - Notorious Prospering
snb stamplar

Dec 23, 2017

All stamina holiday tournament!

1st place - Speed Kills
dot stam sorc

2nd place - Notorious Prospering
nightblade

3rd place - Zed is Ded
nightblade

Dec 16, 2017

1st place - Passifest
snb/destro magicka DK

2nd place - Marcel
d/r mageblade

3rd place - Josh
d/r magicka DK

4th place - Speed Kills
dw/bow dot stamina sorc

5th place - Zed is Ded
2h/bow heavy armor stamblade

Dec 9, 2017

1st place - Yuri
magicka DK

2nd place - Passifest
magicka DK

3rd place - Pelican
magicka warden

4th place - Joshlenoir
2h/bow medium armor stamblade

5th place - Diamanda Spear
a new member showing up big on the magicka templar!

Dec 2, 2017

1st place - me again...

dw/resto mageblade

2nd place - Perfectly Perched Pelican
on his magicka warden

3rd place - Ro'Dari
heavy armor, cloakless, dw/2h stamina nightblade

4th place - Passifest
magicka DK

5th place - Zed is Ded
2h/bow stamina nightblade

Nov 25, 2017

1st place - me... lol...
dw/resto mageblade

2nd place - Perfectly Perched Pelican
on his magicka Warden

3rd place - Drizzt Do'Liftin
magicka DK

4th place - Jesus Take The Heal
magicka templar

5th place - GodOfDmg
magicka sorc
Not even CP capped! He's a returning player from long ago whom we've missed.

Minalan · February 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well, I have the time to make a constructive post about why magicka sorc can't compete with meta.

SUSTAIN

FACTS :
On a stamina build, you can run 2 damage sets with Dubious Camoran Throne food. 1.3k-1.5k stam regen you AND you are able to sustain extremely well.

On a sorcerer, you need to run lich + witchmother and you can't sustain agaisnt stamina build. Lich alone isn't enough. You need something more like draining poisons, or minor magickasteal.

Being able to sustain without sustain set VS Not being able to sustain with the best sustain is not balanced.

EXPLANATIONS :
Stamina can sustain on heavy attacks, this is so strong that they rely 80% on heavies to sustain. The stamina heavies, (hello 1&S) are short, can be easely introduce in the rotation.
Also, the cost of stamina skill is cheaper than magicka skill.

Magicka can't sustain on heavy attacks, because the channel time is too long. You can't spend 2s + not shielding for sustain. The heavy is so obvious than anyone can block the last tick of the heavy and delete the magicka you was supposed to have.

For the sorc, some people will say you they have no problem to sustain, this is fake sustain.
Harness magicka, the most broken defensive ability in the game, will make you infinite sustain if you have something magicka touching you. Most fight in openworld will be easely sustainable because harness is a shield that give a lot magicka back. But when you face stamina builds, the reality come back and is hard, you can't just sustain. Sorc can't sustain alone, they got carry by harness magicka.

Also, shield cost far too much, When need to refresh your shields every 2-3s because you are heavely pressured, you can't sustain it, while stamina builds will mitigate more damage by blocking and will be able to do something else.

NOTE : The gap between stamina sustain and magicka sustain will be even bigger next patch, because stamina builds will return double ressource from heavy attacks from off balance change, while magicka build don't have easy and reliable access to both off balance (expect mdk) and heavy attacks. Also, the cost of block is reduced.

SOLUTIONS :
Make magicka heavy attacks far shorter like stamina one, of course reduce the damage to keep a ratio damage/channel time equal.

Reduce the cost of all damage shield by 500.

Nerf harness magicka by nerfing the magicka back. For the sake of balance having a defensive spamable ability that give you more ressource than it cost is a bad design.

GEAR

FACTS :
You can't run with two taves 2 sets of 5 pieces + 1 complete monster set.

You can run like stamina builds 2 sets of 5 pieces + 1 complete monster set. The stamina sets weapon damage proc make you able to still run 5/5/2 even if you have 2h + 1&S/dual wield. You can also do it with magicka templar and magicka dk, even with magicka NB but this one is not optimal.

PROBLEMS :
Sorc doesn't have a class spammable and a reliable class heal. (Matriarch isn't reliable because it can be killed, so you need 1.5s to recast it then one more second to get the heal). Sorcerer are forced to run destro/restro and so they are forced to loose set bonus/monster sets.

SOLUTIONS :
Make 2h weapons able to be 2 pieces of a set. Since stamina build can already run 5/5/2 with 2h, and since bow is trash, there is no reason to not make this change.

There is also a problem with damage mitigation. 1h&S + huge HoT + high resistance is far better in every situations than shield. Especially when the number of ennemies increases. More ennemies they are, trasher damage shields are.

A good fix : nerf the shield stacking with a minor/major system + make shield having mitigation when more people are on you (1v1 = no mitigation on shield, 1v2 = shield having 15% mitigation, 1v3 = shield having 30% mitigation, .... , capped to something like 50%).

BUT before bringing that, we would need to wait how the sustain and gear change would affect meta, and then seing if it's needed.

I agree on everything except for the shield ‘fix’. You can run riposte if you want that extra mitigation. Killing shield stacking will make that set an absolute requirement, and it would seriously break what’s left of the class defense.

Vahrokh · February 2018

aeowulf wrote: »

Watched a mag sorc solo shipwreck world boss last week, I don't think they need buffs, least none that affect PvE.

All the screams for other classes to be nerfed mean that all classes get nerfed as undoubtably someone else is screaming for yours to be nerfed. I feel all classes are getting closer to being balanced, but they loose flavour in doing so. PvP stambldes, all the nerfs to sneak attacks meant they were less effective in their thing. Other classes then needed to be brought down to the same level if they too were over performing in 'their thing' - result is flavour goes.

Many changes have been unwarranted, class based sustain changes for one, they sucked a ton of fun from certain classes, and completely removed role viability from others. That's a way bigger issues. Don't see many sorc tanks in PvE now...

ZOS thinks like you. If someone can solo puggable soloable PvE content then PvP needs a nerf.

As for the other considerations: ZOS has done a TERRIBLE job at balancing classes.
When ESO was a good game, every class could be a trial tank (sorcs being the low end) and a trial healer (not sure about DKs).

Now, like in WoW, they shoehorned every class into doing 1-2 roles and suck at everything else.

Vahrokh · February 2018

Mazbt wrote: »

if you are talking about a pvp perspective don't even....like seriously. I won't buy it one bit. The small scale/duelling/solo mag sorcs are insanely powerful.

Sorcs are the only Cyro "kill XX quest" that I need to refresh on the NPC 2 times per 2 h session. The others only 1 time per session. So, if killing them is double as easy, maybe being a "good sorc" is not so common nor easy.

Jsmalls · February 2018

The fact that a Sorcerers only reliable class damage is an ability that hits 3.5 seconds after it's cast is unfortunate. (Curse) I love curse I do ( I have to) but it shouldn't be given that responsibility considering it's delay.

Frags need to be reevaluated. Period. My frags miss their Target more often than I have to reapply my shields, and that's saying something. No seriously... The Dodge window on frags is enormous, like as long as you dodge between today and tomorrow (or between 2 global cool downs) it'll miss. You can even stand up after a roll, have us throw a frag at you and it'll still miss. Hell, even when the frag connects, and I hear it connect, you still have half a second to dodge it... And nowadays we have to lose so much damage to sustain (most Sorcerers, I chose a different route, but my frags still suck) that even when a frag lands it's a slight tickle. We used to boast 13-15k frags, we're limping along hitting the meta players with 7k crit frags now, if they land which they usually don't.

And that telegraphed burst combo we used to be famous for. It now looks like this...
Curse, weave, endless, weave, CC, frag... Dea... Wait let's add that up 7k curse, 1.5k weave, 1k endless, 1.5k weave, 7k frag Boooom 18k (and that's if everything crits trollololol) over the course of 5 global cooldowns. Oh wait you have 25k health. Oh wait You used 1 vigor during that fight and now are still at half health, or more? Lemme just force pulse 2k, hmm, maybe another 1.5k. Well, I'm going to streak away now and I'll try it again with my ultimate, because that's my only means to get a kill anymore.

Shield stacking is OP in 1v1s , but steadily gets worse when it goes up from there. I agree that shield stacking seems annoying, but it's because when fighting against it alone, it's hard to counter (but seriously just count to six while letting the Sorc be offensive, heavy attack, CC dead).

I'm all for changing the shield stacking system, if we're given something in return, like streaking working like a Dodge roll

then it's stacking cost would make sense.

Also you can't blame us for shield stacking when we're pigeon holed into it. Did you want me to heal with combat prayer? Or mutagen? Because I certainly won't be slotting a heal that takes up 2 bar spaces, and can be killed. Now that's just laughable.

All in all we're not in an awful spot, I still kick ass. But we're a husk that depends on a burst combo that isn't viable anymore without an ultimate in the regular rotation. Even with the ultimate, anyone that can break free quickly will be surviving it, because the meteor and curse may go off together, but it's very easy to break free from the rune and roll or block before the frag reaches you, thanks to it's extremely slow projectile speed, and it's large window of being countered. And that's without any other defensive reaction during the course of the 5 global cooldown setup, or ourselves not having to put a shield up in that same time frame.

Drdeath20 · February 2018

When u have to compare your class to all stamina builds bcz ur class can wreck other magicka classes

Bobby_V_Rockit · February 2018

And stam sorcs. We need a buff toooo

LiesandEther · February 2018

Realistically ZoS is going to do what they want when they want with combat changes. They don't care who cries and who boasts. PVP and end game PVE'ers dont support this game. We are the 1% and get no love. The RP'ers the crafter's the ones who dont play a single piece of combat content are the one's who support this game. With their massive crown store purchases to look the part. Dont believe me? PVP has such a low non-exsistant support financially for this game they put BG's behind a paywall. Proofs in the pudding. We as PVP'ers and end game PVE'ers could stop playing today and TESO would still keep on keepin on.

Vapirko · February 2018

Lol at people complaint they only get 2 damage skills other than execute. Try playing stam DK or stam sorc sometime.

Lorkhan · February 2018

Mag sorc needs buff trololololol lolol lolol

Ender1310 · February 2018

Sorcs are Master race.

MyrddinEmrys · February 2018

People saying that MagSorcs don't need a buff clearly haven't been playing one for the last 3 patches.... Please, stop the hate speech against MagScorcs. Hate speech is illegal you know.

Eyesinthedrk · February 2018

My favorite was when sorcs were trash, then necro came out. Now sorcs were OP. What did ZOS do? They put a 10% nerf to frag damage. ??? Then next patch they nerfed necro too.

I’d love a little bit of a buff back, but I’d settle for a little equalization. How about giving dodge roll and cloak the same treatment streak got?

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

No use to reasoning with that which can not be reasoned with.

There is nothing you can really do. Other then hop on your OP stamina master builds character's and at least equal the rest of the stamina based classes. And wait for the pendulum to switch in the direction of magicka one more. Watch just give it year or so. And you'll see these players in their loved OP stamina builds start crying about OP magicka playstyles.

Drdeath20 · February 2018

Sorcs wreck every other class but die to stamina metta builds and call for buffs. Kids these days

Irylia · February 2018

Hollery wrote: »

Sorcs need a buff, but not the one you suggest. Give Frags it's damage back

Hollery wrote: »

The CC on frags was the issue, not the damage. More proof Wrobel doesn't play the game

Why do you even comment on sorc threads. You don’t play the class let alone half the classes available to us.
You do night blade, your ideas of balance come from no logical backing and all of this can be seen from your consistent forum posting (just check your comments).

The stun on frag was not the issue.
Stacking harness + hard in a limited fight 1v1 1v2 was.
Make a major minor ward system with class shields as major. Harness/dampen major and healing minor.

-Can’t stack two major wards.

-Reduce fury execute time to 2 seconds so it is more reactionary and active than a cast and forget.

-mines reduce cost by 20% (currently 5.5)
Lower their up time to 18 seconds

-frag stun keep the damage nerfs

-remove haunting curse

IAVITNI · February 2018

Mazbt wrote: »

if you are talking about a pvp perspective don't even....like seriously. I won't buy it one bit. The small scale/duelling/solo mag sorcs are insanely powerful.

Really, any small scale/dueling/solo player is going to seem insanely powerful when fighting people of lesser skill. Despite their decline in strength, Msorc is still one of the better classes to 1vx one because mobility and the ability to switch from defence to offence on a dime is huge in these situations. In a planned duel, almost nobody is going to bring an Msorc, and if they do its 80% chance they are going to be a pet sorc.

Irylia wrote: »

The stun on frag was not the issue.
Stacking harness + hard in a limited fight 1v1 1v2 was.
Make a major minor ward system with class shields as major. Harness/dampen major and healing minor.

-Can’t stack two major wards.

-Reduce fury execute time to 2 seconds so it is more reactionary and active than a cast and forget.

-mines reduce cost by 20% (currently 5.5)
Lower their up time to 18 seconds

-frag stun keep the damage nerfs

-remove haunting curse

I agree that shield stacking was the real issue, not damage. Shields also has a psychological effect. It LOOKS like you are doing no damage when really Vigor in Heavy can mitigate more damage but is less frustrating because there is a visual result of player efforts. There is no sense of getting closer to the goal (0 health) which can be frustrating for newer players.

I don't think a major/minor system would work with shields though. Not unless Hardened gets buffed because 10k shields is basically down in 2 GCDs in a 1v1. Not saying it couldn't work but it would require a lot of other balance changes to be successful.

Regarding Fury, Msorcs rotation is very fluid at the moment and the play style is actually in a good place overall. Fury isn't meant to be reactionary, as Msorc isn't meant to be reactionary but premeditated. It's not that strong of an execute outside zergs and players that know what they're doing. After 4 seconds you just need to make sure you block/dodge roll/heal to avoid the burst. Sorc damage is so telegraphed that Fury is fine as is. If anything, force the skill to be more proactive by giving it a primer period. If the enemy enters execute range within 2 seconds of the debuff being applied the damage is halved, if this occurs after 2 seconds it deals full damage.

I'd go the other way with Frags. The CC removal has created better build diversity and encourages active gameplay.

No comment on mines or curse changes as those wouldn't have much an affect.