Mag Sorcerers Need a Buff (ZOS Please READ)

Aedaryl

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

Gprime31

Dutchessx wrote: »

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff, our shields have been nerfed into the ground by being cut in half in pvp and the time limited to 6 seconds and Shield Breaker makes it to where you get hit for more with Shields, with one hit my shields are gone and I have to reapply them. This problem is also compounded by damage health glyphs and poisons. Dark Conversion has never been reliable as a heal because it is interruptible or waste an ultimate to save my life. Streak has had the cost increased and people can travel further than we can using crit rush or similar skill so we can't get away or reposition ourselves in the battle field. Crystal frags have been nerfed by taking the stun & knock back down and Crystal Blast is worthless because it is interruptible. I have to wear light armor to be affective but in doing so I can't survive hardly any focus at all. And, now you guys are giving interrupt a cool down, so crushing shock is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

L2P

Biro123

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

Sounds interesting.. though I do note that frags got quite a big buff this patch in terms of the miats nerf.. it now seems, on average, to be hitting maybe 70% of the time as opposed to 20%.. I'm back on DW!

Aedaryl

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

Sounds interesting.. though I do note that frags got quite a big buff this patch in terms of the miats nerf.. it now seems, on average, to be hitting maybe 70% of the time as opposed to 20%.. I'm back on DW!

This is a buff if people are noobs, it won't help against good people, the proof is in duel where miats was always disable.

Biro123

Aedaryl wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

Sounds interesting.. though I do note that frags got quite a big buff this patch in terms of the miats nerf.. it now seems, on average, to be hitting maybe 70% of the time as opposed to 20%.. I'm back on DW!

This is a buff if people are noobs, it won't help against good people, the proof is in duel where miats was always disable.

Yeah, it really does show now.. spent last night rolling with an obscene-burst, 0 sustain yolo DW build.. People either know how to defend vs sorc and interrupt/purge/dodge/block the burst - and run me out of mag - or die in 1-2 burst combo's.. Fights are either a spectacular success or a spectacular fail - fun though!

Its that kind of experience though which makes me think most 'nerf sorc' posts are L2P issues.

Lord_Zele

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

As I was reading this whole post, I was thinking exactly this.
Good idea, surprised no one else thought about it.

OdinForge

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

The only tree there to realistically invest in as magsorc would be thaumaturge and exploiter is a 75 point passive.

Unless you're spamming lightning staff or resto staff heavies, I'd prefer that frag has the stun back. I agree with the proposed wrath change and shield stack change, but in favor of frag getting both its damage and stun back. And they just re-design and give crystal blast to stamsorc.

Just my opinion.

Savos_Saren

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Beardimus

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

Not a bad idea that actually! innovative!

Joy_Division

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

You might want to check more carefully with your killing blows. Often times kill counter will credit you with 3 KBS, yes 3, just for finishing off someone who was practically already dead.

"You killed X with Endless Fury!"
"You killed X with Endless Fury Explosion!"
"You killed X with Implosion!"

technohic

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorc is great in medium to large scale when not being targeted. The way wrath works as well as the passive execute; you rack up a lot of killing blows. Its artificial numbers from others doing the work though

OdinForge

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

This is just conjecture anyone can claim they made a class and did whatever, whilst not providing legitimate evidence. What does "with my guild..." mean? Hopefully not that you made a class and ran it from the relative safety of a group. I'd be interested to see actual evidence of you performing with magsorc alone, especially with that setup..

Biro123

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

I bolded the key part for you. You're not killing anybody alone with that setup. Curse/Wrath/Meteor the only damaging abilities...? You're relying on your teammates sustaining pressure while you just pop in a bit of CC/burst to finish them..

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol at people complaint they only get 2 damage skills other than execute. Try playing stam DK or stam sorc sometime.

@Vapirko

Difference being the stave weapon lines are trash, and the two hander gives you everything you want, including a heal... Then sword and board is OP as well. Resto staff is good for 1 ability, seriously...

Staff line isn’t not trash, flame reach, ele drain, crushing shock, wall of elements, destro ult.

Resto staff is good for healing ward and ult as well as it’s steong passives. Even some stam builds back bar resto ult.

@Vapirko

As @Minalan stated one destro ability gets slotted as a spammable since our class does not have one, both Reach and Force pulse are sub par when it comes to damage, and no Sorc WANTS to slot. Reach is okay for the CC, but damage wise is laughable, once again forced to slot it because our good CC was robbed.

WoE I'm not even going to comment on. Last time I saw ele drain in PvP was by a level 37. And destro ulti isn't all what it's cracked up to be. Sure it'll melt potatoes, but who has a hard time killing potatoes. I've always hated that ultimate. It's easily counterable (minus having 6 stacked on you). Ask any Sorc, we'd take a single burst/instant AoE ultimate over that ultimate any day (PvP wise). If I had my way the destro ultimate would come in three varieties, flame staff would get a single target ultimate since it applies the 8% single target bonus, lightning staff would get the large AoE ultimate, and Frost staff would get a tanking ultimate. 2-hander ultimate would be more useful if it wasn't outclassed by Dawnbreaker, but that just gives you guys more variety.
Healing ultimate can be awesome, just like healing ward can be awesome, or it could go to the guy standing next to you, and you're left as a puddle on the ground. I don't like increasing RNG when it comes to my healing. As an avid user of the resto ult and the Spell Wall ultimate, I can say I would take the Spell Wall ultimate Everytime. Even though it's still bugged since it's release for Destro staff users, getting stuck in a destro heavy attack when Spell Wall is active...

All in all, Destro skill line is sub-par and only useful for it's passive (8% single target) and weaving in my opinion, and resto staffs are good for heavy attacking to manage resources.

@Minalan no I don't use wall of ele, but some do its a well known mag dk build.

But anyway would you all rather be only able to basically slot three wpn skills and have no class damage skills? Yes, most classes need some reworking, but complaining that theres only 1 usable destro skill is just bs. Ele drain is a fantastic PvP skill. Basically you're all just complaining that your class + wpn is like every other class and weapon, it has its draw backs and a few good things. All I hear is buff my play style so I can have everything.

I’ll give you drain, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t use it on a Sorc simply because there are more important skills to put on your bar.

What you’re hearing is ‘buff my class skills because you broke them’. Get it right at least. Just because Sorc CAN use a skill that anyone in the game can pick up does not make us ‘balanced’.

Be salty if you want, but half of cyrodiil or more was playing mag sorc before the nerf, there was a reason for it. Now they simply act like most other classes. Is crystal frags lame af now? Yes I’d say so. But, it’s still perfectly possible to dominate with a mag sorc. Aside from stam wardens it seems like the balance of played classes in cyro is pretty decent atm. I main a stam sorc, so don’t even get me started on the lack of class spammables. Maybe mag sorcs could use a little adjustment but there are other classes that need it to and have been waiting a lot longer.

Other classes have other people advocating for them. I’m speaking for the Sorcs. Nowhere did I say that Templars and Dragonknights don’t need adjustments. But I don’t play those, so I leave Templars for example to Joy Division, who knows probably more about them than anyone.

I’m speaking to our class, and we get a ridiculous amount of unwarranted Sorc hate. Then you come in and say we’re balanced fine because we can use the Destro staff that everyone else can already use. Then you tell me that other classes need buffs too. Well, we know that. There are threads in the PTS with 500+ posts about Templar and the DK flame lash nerf.

I’m here to say crystal frags is broken, the damage on a proc’ed frag does not justify the slow projectile speed and number of counters available for it. It needs to move faster, do slightly more damage, or proc more often. The easiest fix is obviously the damage, 10% more, because it was taken off for some dumb reason two or three patches ago.

We’re not “fine” with having a Destro/Resto staff glued into our hands, and thus missing out on set bonuses that sword and board and dual wield builds get. We’re not “fine” with being forced to use a resto staff or a stupid broken pet just to heal. It’s not “ok” that we have zero access to major-minor debuffs on class skills.

Completely agree with this. I aways thought frags should be faster in flight, its way to slow.The damage is also to low for a skill that has to proc and use might of the guild for any real damage. The setup is to long for the limited damage it does. I think also the secondary effect should be a sharpened type of effect that ignores some resist. This would keep it balanced vers less resistant targets and a bit more pew pew vers resistant targets.

bardx86

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just thinking

ZoS could give frag off balance.

It's logical, since it was a stun, with the nerf let's say it set up the ennemy off balance, the animation and the sound is perfect for it.

It will give mag sorc a reliable acces to off balance, with the possibilty to stun an ennemy with a medium attack, with the possibilty to gain 10% more damage with exploiter passive, with the possibility to have twice ressource on heavy attacks (even if it's hard to place it in rotation because it's damn too long), with the possibilty to reduce the gap between magsorc VS stam a bit.

Think about it, and tell me how great it could be.

not a bad idea.

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

GeorgeBlack

Oh yeah?
You have every tool needed for pvp and you can't manage?
Do you want to swap with my stamDK?

Savos_Saren

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

Regardless of your fantastic knowledge- the kills/KBS were still higher than my mDK in the same group composition. So, there's that...

Which, by your own bolded statement means that mDKs are even worse in PVP than mSorcs... right? But hey... buff Sorcs!

SirAndy

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch

So if i went through your posting history i would find posts where you were complaining about how overpowered Mag Sorcs were for the first two years of the game?

Vahrokh

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Yes, it's easy to believe to be a pro-PvPer while free casting behind the protection of a guild zerg.
Try getting dismounted and ganked by a NB while solo roaming in Cyrodil and see how much you do with that setup.

Lord-Otto

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

Regardless of your fantastic knowledge- the kills/KBS were still higher than my mDK in the same group composition. So, there's that...

Which, by your own bolded statement means that mDKs are even worse in PVP than mSorcs... right? But hey... buff Sorcs!

I'll be the guy and speak out what everyone is thinking:
Your build is absolute sh... trash and you only have a sense of accomplishment because your zerg... I mean, guild, did the hard work for you. Your opinion on this matter is best ignored, as you clearly lack a lot of experience.

Savos_Saren

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

Regardless of your fantastic knowledge- the kills/KBS were still higher than my mDK in the same group composition. So, there's that...

Which, by your own bolded statement means that mDKs are even worse in PVP than mSorcs... right? But hey... buff Sorcs!

I'll be the guy and speak out what everyone is thinking:
Your build is absolute sh... trash and you only have a sense of accomplishment because your zerg... I mean, guild, did the hard work for you. Your opinion on this matter is best ignored, as you clearly lack a lot of experience.

Right- so I guess everyone in the forums that has been acknowledging that sorcs have been OP for quite some time now... all of them are inexperienced and uninformed? Poor sorcs. You guys will never be happy until you can one-shot everyone and streak away unscathed.

Xeven

Lord-Otto

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

Regardless of your fantastic knowledge- the kills/KBS were still higher than my mDK in the same group composition. So, there's that...

Which, by your own bolded statement means that mDKs are even worse in PVP than mSorcs... right? But hey... buff Sorcs!

I'll be the guy and speak out what everyone is thinking:
Your build is absolute sh... trash and you only have a sense of accomplishment because your zerg... I mean, guild, did the hard work for you. Your opinion on this matter is best ignored, as you clearly lack a lot of experience.

Right- so I guess everyone in the forums that has been acknowledging that sorcs have been OP for quite some time now... all of them are inexperienced and uninformed? Poor sorcs. You guys will never be happy until you can one-shot everyone and streak away unscathed.

It becomes abundantly clear you lack experience to be a source of discussion and have never engaged with a good player on your own. You're just hiding in your group.

In fact, you let it slip.
Whenever the tides turn against you or you see a difficult fight approaching, you run away. Your last comment clearly indicates that. Just wait until a good player finds you and you can't run away, you'll see...

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

Sorcs register on average 2 KBs for every actual killing blow they get. Some times even 3. This is because of delayed burst and multiple abilities count as a killing blow. So those 181 killing blows are at least double the actual killing blows u get on a sorc. Thats 1 killing blow every 4-5 kills on the class that is prety much designed to get killing blows even when u literally dont actually do anything to the target. Those are not astonishing numbers, those are horrible numbers and u've set ur bar too low.

You were also running in a large group cause that build is simply trash for any actual solo/small scale PVP, so other people were covering your weaknesses so you basically still have no idea about what sorc is good or not good at other than just abusing people with roots, spamming fury and a couple of negates here and there thinking that you are actually doing good. This is the same like a mDK playing with a stamblade that executes people for fun and the DK thinking that his dots are those that kill people.

To wrap it up, you just experienced the enthusiasm of playing a new class, not playing an OP class. First learn the class and actually go and play solo, get some clips and then u can tell people how astonishing it is. Until then dont bother talking about sorc balance cause the only thing you prove with posts like that is what actual sorcs have been telling for years. That nerf sorc threads are filled with clueless people like you who have no idea about what they are talking about and they basically just talk out of their .....

Regardless of your fantastic knowledge- the kills/KBS were still higher than my mDK in the same group composition. So, there's that...

Which, by your own bolded statement means that mDKs are even worse in PVP than mSorcs... right? But hey... buff Sorcs!

And you are still talking out of ur ....

For starters i have never said that mDK are ok. I have actually stated numerous times that they have issues. However, thats completely irrelevant with this thread. No one here is telling that ur mDK shouldnt get buffs. This is a sorc thread. Feel free to open a buff mDK thread or post in one of the 42398574053 existing threads that were opened in the last 2 months alone.

As far as KBs between mDKs and sorcs are concerned, sorcs will always get more KB than mDKs. This has nothing to do with which class is better. This is just how the classes are designed. Classic examples are BGs. mDK always get more overall dmg than sorcs but their killing blows are relatively low. Sorcs on the other hand can get killing blows on people they dont even actually do any dmg by just pressing fury. Thats just how the classes are designed. But calling sorcs OP or astonishing because of that is like calling mDKs OP cause they can run very high hp unkillable tanks. This is obviously dumb but u are still unable to see it because you have no clue about what ur talking about.

In short, you were not the one actually killing people in ur group. Other people were actually doing the dmg and u were just executing them. If you take that build open world alone u will not kill anything. You will struggle to kill even potatoes. You have no spammable or frags. Any semi decent player will afk tank that trash build. And im not even going to touch sustain or survivability cause it gets even worse. Like i said, other people were just covering ur weaknesses and u thought u were actually doing good.

Its ok buddy, its safe to get off the sorc OP train and join the rest of the population. The only people that are left there are the potatoes getting 1vXed by sorcs.

Maulkin

Bit of a long one here, please do bear with me. I'm perhaps gonna buck a trend here among fellow Sorcs and say that power wise I think we're mostly in a good place.

That said, I do think the damage nerf on the frags needs to be reverted now the stun is gone. The class plays as a kiting class with burst and it's only got two core damage skills Curse and Frags. So nerfing frag (i.e. burst) damage in the first place was contradictory to how the class is supposed to play. A weird change considering it's already trailing behind StamDen, Stamplar, StamBlade and MagBlade in terms of burst damage, while being on a par with MagDen who is tankier. But apart from that I don't think the class really needs buffs.

The only major complain about Sorc (and I hear the same from most experienced Sorcs) is how due to low availability of buffs and a high number of very core skills, nearly every Sorc plays the same. I see some people drop Power Surge in favour of spell power pots and find a place for either Rune Cage or Daedric Mines.... but that's about it. The rest is frag, fury, curse, reach, streak/BoL and 3 shields on probably +95% of experienced Sorcs out there. There is no class with less variability than Sorcs, aside from complete novelty builds like pet or overload sniper.

So if anything, Sorc does not need buffs imo but a tiny bit of a rework. My personal recommendation has always involved suggestions to reduce reliance on shield stacking and that way open up slots for more skills and builds. I petitioned to remove Hardened Ward and in return:

1. augment the Daedric Protection passive to reduce the cost of shields by, say, ~20% percent which would bring the cost of Harness/Dampen down to current Hardened Ward levels. So Sorcs would have Dampen/Harness and Heal Ward like anyone else, only cheaper.
2. add some small mitigation like the Minor Protection buff that Warden has, to compensate for the loss of the 3rd shield
3. create a wholly new skill to replace Hardened Ward in the skill tree, so long as it's not a freaking shield.

What that would do is free up a slot (Hardened) on the bar and create an opportunity for more diverse and interesting builds. Survivability will slightly go down in 1v1s due to the loss of the 3rd shield, but 3 shields especially in magicka vs magicka fights are ridiculously strong. The % damage mitigation however will scale better against many opponents than shields do and so survivability against many opponents (whether group vs group, or 1vX ) should be largely unaffected. Also the flat protection buff would work for a wider range of builds. Be it magicka builds that don't want to rely on Shields or StamStorc builds.

technohic

Maulkin wrote: »

Bit of a long one here, please do bear with me. I'm perhaps gonna buck a trend here among fellow Sorcs and say that power wise I think we're mostly in a good place.

That said, I do think the damage nerf on the frags needs to be reverted now the stun is gone. The class plays as a kiting class with burst and it's only got two core damage skills Curse and Frags. So nerfing frag (i.e. burst) damage in the first place was contradictory to how the class is supposed to play. A weird change considering it's already trailing behind StamDen, Stamplar, StamBlade and MagBlade in terms of burst damage, while being on a par with MagDen who is tankier. But apart from that I don't think the class really needs buffs.

The only major complain about Sorc (and I hear the same from most experienced Sorcs) is how due to low availability of buffs and a high number of very core skills, nearly every Sorc plays the same. I see some people drop Power Surge in favour of spell power pots and find a place for either Rune Cage or Daedric Mines.... but that's about it. The rest is frag, fury, curse, reach, streak/BoL and 3 shields on probably +95% of experienced Sorcs out there. There is no class with less variability than Sorcs, aside from complete novelty builds like pet or overload sniper.

So if anything, Sorc does not need buffs imo but a tiny bit of a rework. My personal recommendation has always involved suggestions to reduce reliance on shield stacking and that way open up slots for more skills and builds. I petitioned to remove Hardened Ward and in return:

1. augment the Daedric Protection passive to reduce the cost of shields by, say, ~20% percent which would bring the cost of Harness/Dampen down to current Hardened Ward levels. So Sorcs would have Dampen/Harness and Heal Ward like anyone else, only cheaper.
2. add some small mitigation like the Minor Protection buff that Warden has, to compensate for the loss of the 3rd shield
3. create a wholly new skill to replace Hardened Ward in the skill tree, so long as it's not a freaking shield.

What that would do is free up a slot (Hardened) on the bar and create an opportunity for more diverse and interesting builds. Survivability will slightly go down in 1v1s due to the loss of the 3rd shield, but 3 shields especially in magicka vs magicka fights are ridiculously strong. The % damage mitigation however will scale better against many opponents than shields do and so survivability against many opponents (whether group vs group, or 1vX ) should be largely unaffected. Also the flat protection buff would work for a wider range of builds. Be it magicka builds that don't want to rely on Shields or StamStorc builds.

I like your thinking here. I've actually run my sorc without shields other than healing ward and just wizards riposte just to change up the play style. You can zerg surf like any other bad build and snipe some kills; but I wouldn't recommend it when isolated. It was kind of fun though to not have to keep recasting shields as part of a rotation and to streak around LOS when targeted spamming healing ward hoping help comes.

Azurya

Dutchessx wrote: »

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff,
is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

really?
you need a buff??
you were taken out much to long from any nerfs!
you don´t even know what a nerf is, since the things you count up are just changes due to gameplay-balance issues!

I propose you must get a real fat NERF anytime soon!
then you know what a nerf is
and we can talk about it

rafaelcsmaia

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This thread blows my mind. I decided to roll a MagSorc in AvA the other day with my guild...

...in one night got 374 kills and 181 were killing blows. It was absolutely astonishing!

Here was my setup:
1 Molag Kena
5 Innate Axiom
5 Netch’s Touch

Front bar (Lightning Destro):
Mage’s Wrath, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Boundless Storm, Restraining Prison Ultimate: Meteor

Back bar (Resto):
Power Surge, Empowered Ward, Cleanse, Healing Ward, Streak Ultimate: Suppression Field

If you think MagSorcs are weak and need a buff: You’re doing it wrong.

The reason you get so many KBs is just because of mages fury. It makes everything you target insta die when they get low, I can get insane K/D ratios in BGs just by spamming fury far away from action. It's basically what people would call Kill Steal in other mmo's.

I'm not questioning your numbers, though anyone spamming fury could do that or even more. It's no reason to think sorcs are OP just because of that.

Maulkin

Azurya wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

Seriously mag sorcerers needs a buff,
is not worth a thing. It is time for magicka sorcerers to be given something back. I have played a magicka sorcerer since prelaunch I know how to play this class but y'all need to do something for this class or there won't be any in the game, maybe that is what you want I don't know.

really?
you need a buff??
you were taken out much to long from any nerfs!
you don´t even know what a nerf is, since the things you count up are just changes due to gameplay-balance issues!

I propose you must get a real fat NERF anytime soon!
then you know what a nerf is
and we can talk about it

Sarcasm? Or lack of knowledge?

The only class that can claim to have received more nerfs than Sorc is perhaps the DK. But with DKs the number of huge buffs they received over the years (Power Lash heals, Embers heal, Petrify, Dragon Leap, Flame of Oblivion etc) is actually more than balancing the nerfs. If you brought back dynamic ultie, current DKs would be stronger than release DKs.

NBs have mostly been buffed since release, while the nerfs to Templar healing have been offset by buffs to their damage (Power of Light, Radiant Oppression, Jabs).