Destruent wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Is that on a target dummy?
@Cinbri have you tested it on players?

yep, tested on target dummies. was one of the last things i did before leaving

So far the only thing I manage to find on dummys is the issue with Minor Vulnerability. Other than that I get near identical damage values on pts and on live.

Destruent wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Don't expect too much. It's only in combination with Minor Vulnerability and only ~3-4 %. If you are doing PvP though you'll like the increased sidewards size.

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Is that on a target dummy?
@Cinbri have you tested it on players?

yep, tested on target dummies. was one of the last things i did before leaving

Whenever

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Is that on a target dummy?
@Cinbri have you tested it on players?

yep, tested on target dummies. was one of the last things i did before leaving

So far the only thing I manage to find on dummys is the issue with Minor Vulnerability. Other than that I get near identical damage values on pts and on live.

With the exact same damage stats (max magicka, spell damage, spellcrit, blue Champion Points) on both servers, after working around a small UI error, my Puncturing Sweep (no debuffs or buffs applied) tests rendered the exact same results on both tests.

In conclusion, I haven’t found any reason to think Puncturing Sweep will be stronger against non-Vulnerability-debuffed targets in Dragon Bones update than it is in Clockwork City update.

Exactly. Just to be clear I also tested with CPs.

Firstmep wrote: »

So to summarise it, no they didnt fix the incorrect scaling on jabs.
I think this all comes down to where the 140% extra damage comes into the calculations.
I like that they made it so you can see the tooltip of the damage to the closest target, but if the actual damage done doesnt reflect this than they need to look at it again.
On the bright side, this is another reason for my stamplar to switch to an off balance/heavy attack build next patch.

I just don't see where the 140% bonus isn't working. As far as I can tell it works just fine on Live and on PTS. Before they made the change with minor vulnerability, I just figured it was intended to scale additively, just like "increase damage done" effects scale additively as well. I also generally don't see it inferior to other "spammable" skills.

Cinbri wrote: »

I have 800 ping on pts so can't test myself such things.
1. Jabs don't heal - same exact bug was on previous pts and was fixed in a week. Apparently this one will be fixed in same time.
2. Jabs missing - it might be their attempt to finally fix an old problem of incorrect landing zone during movement.
Showed this previously:

Long time ago, I believe after change jabs direction to follow character PoV instead of camera, jabs started to bug and wrongly calculate it cone area that resulted in missing targets in it cone during caster movement, even when zero lags involved.

this is the problem

so ... is my sumarize about jabs right?=


percental dmg multipliers are still additive to the 140% so no change on pts to life

dmg is also the same (in cp and no cp) as life

we got 1 m more range (yay)

Trashs1 wrote: »

so ... is my sumarize about jabs right?=


percental dmg multipliers are still additive to the 140% so no change on pts to life

dmg is also the same (in cp and no cp) as life

we got 1 m more range (yay)

No dmg fix?

Minno wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

so ... is my sumarize about jabs right?=


percental dmg multipliers are still additive to the 140% so no change on pts to life

dmg is also the same (in cp and no cp) as life

we got 1 m more range (yay)

No dmg fix?

Currently the only problem with jabs is that thick skin and ele defender/hardy on your target is lowering damage more than on live.

Cinbri tested and confirmed 140% is working and the DMG bonuses are working.

Sorry i thought that on live we dont get the whole 140% increase due to it being additive with things like offensive cps, where as pre Morrowind that 140% was a multiplier on top of the base damage of jabs but came into the damage calculations after other dmg increase effects.
So i guess what we are asking if that was changed on the PTS or not.
Again sorry if im wrong but basically that's what I'm trying to find out. I took a break from the game at Morrowind release, and didnt read some of the minor changes when i came back.

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Minno wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

so ... is my sumarize about jabs right?=


percental dmg multipliers are still additive to the 140% so no change on pts to life

dmg is also the same (in cp and no cp) as life

we got 1 m more range (yay)

No dmg fix?

Currently the only problem with jabs is that thick skin and ele defender/hardy on your target is lowering damage more than on live.

Cinbri tested and confirmed 140% is working and the DMG bonuses are working.

Also, the other problem is burning light not working with penetration CP stars.

Also link to Cinbri says jabs DMG is working except against hardy/ele defender/thick skin CP:

Cinbri wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Don't expect too much. It's only in combination with Minor Vulnerability and only ~3-4 %. If you are doing PvP though you'll like the increased sidewards size.

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Is that on a target dummy?
@Cinbri have you tested it on players?

On previous page and FlamingBeard proved that accurate test grant same result. Didn't test anything this week since nothing in patchnotes said anything was fixed.
Tl;dr:
1. Initial damage same.
2. Initial damage with berserk same.
3. Initial damage with vulerability is a bit higher.
4. Damage on noCP enemy same.
5. Damage on CP enemy is much less coz hopefully bug.
@ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to know if this 5 paragraph was looked at and when/if it will be fixed at all.
With current situation, in pvp 1 Strike on enemy will deal more than 1k less damage!

Cinbri wrote: »

So:

6. Jabs and its 140% damage:

Tried closest to 1000 damage. As you can see its something like 140.XX%. So, tooltip state right amount of damage.

2. About actual damage to closest target:

It does deal same amount of damage as tooltip state. So, 140% seems works properly.

3. About raw damage: Live/PTS
a. Initial damage stay the same(not sure why 1 less damage), since nothing was changed here:


b. As Joy said minor berserk is additive, and nothing changed here too, damage is same:


c. But as first patchnotes said damage taken, like minor vulnerability, is no longer additive, and here is buff changes as on live it is suffer from being additive and as result less than 8%, but on pts it is boosting flat 8% damage increase that don't losing its % when combined with berserk:
without and with Slimecraw' berserk while enemy vulnerable:

---

In theory it look like it work as it intended, but NO, tested closest damage in pvp in exactly same gear/CP/skillbar against opponent with exact same gear/CP/skillbar and result is sad:

Whatever changed with calculation of CP damage taken it ended in monstrous damage nerf for pvp.

So, here is Part 2:

Did further researches and can confirm Elemental Defender and Thickskinned incorrectly working with only Puncturing Sweeps (Apparently as Hardy for Biting Jabs)

Short results:
Live/PTS
1. 10 points into Thickskinned:

already 8 less damage difference on pts. 13crit.

2. 10 points into Elemental Defender:

already 4 less damage difference on pts. 6crit.

3. 10 points into Ele Def+10 Thickskinned:

already 10 less damage difference on pts. 16crit.
______________________________________

I dont have time to compile and edit 20+ screenshots so here is my raw notes indicating that damage difference occure only for Jabs and only with Red CP costellation:

Cinbri wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Nope, like patchnotes say - you can stack backlash on one target now, each backlash shows up as separate debuff.
Wait when zerg will spam 5 backlashes on you

Well, I can't complain but I'm biased a bit. Though I dislike that a healbot is able to instantly deal ~5-7k damage to me.

Firstmep wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Nope, like patchnotes say - you can stack backlash on one target now, each backlash shows up as separate debuff.
Wait when zerg will spam 5 backlashes on you

Well, I can't complain but I'm biased a bit. Though I dislike that a healbot is able to instantly deal ~5-7k damage to me.

Im fairly sure after this fix goes live the forums will quickly get flooded with salty posts of people dying to multiple backlashes, then zeni will do what people have been asking for and make only the casters damage get copied(with a small buff to compensate perhaps).
Im not a fan of this fix for pvp especially since different backlashes on the same target will copy the same damage done to that target essentially multiple times over.
Im really hoping, that whatever fix zeni comes up with after the initial backlash(pun 100% intended), will not.end up nerfing this skill to the ground.

Yea I agree but disagree.

Backlash, as crazy good as it is, shouldn't replace a burst spell. That's the fundamental issue with it; it's designed to be a group support, but it's being used to replaced our non-existent burst DPS. It's also dependant on more consistent DMG options in PvP settings. Also unstable core functions exactly like Sorc curse, but backlash also is like curse. Both are delayed burst options, but one is hidden behind cc immunity and the other is hidden by a DMG soak mechanic; both are terrible clunky designs compared to other classes.

But at the same time, curse can be applied multiple times by different sorcs on the Templar. So backlash should be the same. Question is, will each backlash be a separate debuff and therefore fill up 5 purges? If so, Templars greatly need mobilty outside of vampire.

They need to do the following (with emphasis that we are trading unblocked cc and straight forward DPS for these) :
- backlash only one per target. Promotes group play but coordinating who will be the backlasher. But increase threshold and add secondary buffs for PvP
a) secondary effects could be minor beserk, minor expedition, minor vulnerability, etc.
b) second effect could be a cc effect?
- burning light should be unblockable and undodable. It's target applied DMG, and therefore unavoidable outside of ignoring the DMG spells that proc it.
- blazing shield is weird. It's defensive in an offensive based tree. And it's offensive stats have been stripped away to the point of it's being useless. Redesign is required.
- eclipse should grant effect outside of cc immunity always. Minor life steal/minor resists could be for the total dark, whereas unstable core could receive a boost to it's already designed outside-cc immunity time bomb damage.
- reflective light isn't widely used for AOE pulls that much (at least compared to WoE) Given its DPS primary ranking, both morphs should be increased to give equal direct DMG to force pulse and reflective light granting a boost to dps? Keep the snare. Another reason reflective light shouldn't be AOE, is that solar barrage is an AOE ability with unstable core another AOE ability.
- make major prophecy to activation of Dawn's wraith ability instead if reflective light. This way a Templar can be flexible in the ability they slot and justify giving raw DMG boost to the primary dps ability of Dawn's wraith tree.
- solar barrage should be instant cast since it's blockable. No reason to have a cast time on a 2 second delayed AOE that forces you to be in melee range. It should grant an offensive buff similar to it's morphed cousin, dark flare.
- Spears dot should be applied to Target after hit. This offsets dot DMG disappeared after someone takes the synergy increasing DPS in group situations. Also be applied after earthgore removes the spear.
- focused charge to bring nbs out of stealth. Or redesigned to be the orsinium guard spell everyone is asking for. Apply minor expedition on landing.
- repentance to return to work on multiple Templars on multiple corpses. Or of the intent is to have a group heal on corpses, at least let that one repentance grant stamina Regen for the players inside the radius.
- second morph of repentance to have cost looked into. Seemed weird that design intent for reduce abilities to have less cost to offset casting them ignored on this spell...
- update Ultimates as per joshlenoir's guide on the PvP combat forums. Those would give better combat effectiveness to Templars.

That's all I have for now.

Ashamray wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Nope, like patchnotes say - you can stack backlash on one target now, each backlash shows up as separate debuff.
Wait when zerg will spam 5 backlashes on you

Well, I can't complain but I'm biased a bit. Though I dislike that a healbot is able to instantly deal ~5-7k damage to me.

Im fairly sure after this fix goes live the forums will quickly get flooded with salty posts of people dying to multiple backlashes, then zeni will do what people have been asking for and make only the casters damage get copied(with a small buff to compensate perhaps).
Im not a fan of this fix for pvp especially since different backlashes on the same target will copy the same damage done to that target essentially multiple times over.
Im really hoping, that whatever fix zeni comes up with after the initial backlash(pun 100% intended), will not.end up nerfing this skill to the ground.

Yea I agree but disagree.

Backlash, as crazy good as it is, shouldn't replace a burst spell. That's the fundamental issue with it; it's designed to be a group support, but it's being used to replaced our non-existent burst DPS. It's also dependant on more consistent DMG options in PvP settings. Also unstable core functions exactly like Sorc curse, but backlash also is like curse. Both are delayed burst options, but one is hidden behind cc immunity and the other is hidden by a DMG soak mechanic; both are terrible clunky designs compared to other classes.

But at the same time, curse can be applied multiple times by different sorcs on the Templar. So backlash should be the same. Question is, will each backlash be a separate debuff and therefore fill up 5 purges? If so, Templars greatly need mobilty outside of vampire.

They need to do the following (with emphasis that we are trading unblocked cc and straight forward DPS for these) :
- backlash only one per target. Promotes group play but coordinating who will be the backlasher. But increase threshold and add secondary buffs for PvP
a) secondary effects could be minor beserk, minor expedition, minor vulnerability, etc.
b) second effect could be a cc effect?
- burning light should be unblockable and undodable. It's target applied DMG, and therefore unavoidable outside of ignoring the DMG spells that proc it.
- blazing shield is weird. It's defensive in an offensive based tree. And it's offensive stats have been stripped away to the point of it's being useless. Redesign is required.
- eclipse should grant effect outside of cc immunity always. Minor life steal/minor resists could be for the total dark, whereas unstable core could receive a boost to it's already designed outside-cc immunity time bomb damage.
- reflective light isn't widely used for AOE pulls that much (at least compared to WoE) Given its DPS primary ranking, both morphs should be increased to give equal direct DMG to force pulse and reflective light granting a boost to dps? Keep the snare. Another reason reflective light shouldn't be AOE, is that solar barrage is an AOE ability with unstable core another AOE ability.
- make major prophecy to activation of Dawn's wraith ability instead if reflective light. This way a Templar can be flexible in the ability they slot and justify giving raw DMG boost to the primary dps ability of Dawn's wraith tree.
- solar barrage should be instant cast since it's blockable. No reason to have a cast time on a 2 second delayed AOE that forces you to be in melee range. It should grant an offensive buff similar to it's morphed cousin, dark flare.
- Spears dot should be applied to Target after hit. This offsets dot DMG disappeared after someone takes the synergy increasing DPS in group situations. Also be applied after earthgore removes the spear.
- focused charge to bring nbs out of stealth. Or redesigned to be the orsinium guard spell everyone is asking for. Apply minor expedition on landing.
- repentance to return to work on multiple Templars on multiple corpses. Or of the intent is to have a group heal on corpses, at least let that one repentance grant stamina Regen for the players inside the radius.
- second morph of repentance to have cost looked into. Seemed weird that design intent for reduce abilities to have less cost to offset casting them ignored on this spell...
- update Ultimates as per joshlenoir's guide on the PvP combat forums. Those would give better combat effectiveness to Templars.

That's all I have for now.

Man, you have opened old wounds here ;(

Templars have been in a weird spot since the game cane out. I'm sorry .

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Nope, like patchnotes say - you can stack backlash on one target now, each backlash shows up as separate debuff.
Wait when zerg will spam 5 backlashes on you

Well, I can't complain but I'm biased a bit. Though I dislike that a healbot is able to instantly deal ~5-7k damage to me.

Im fairly sure after this fix goes live the forums will quickly get flooded with salty posts of people dying to multiple backlashes, then zeni will do what people have been asking for and make only the casters damage get copied(with a small buff to compensate perhaps).
Im not a fan of this fix for pvp especially since different backlashes on the same target will copy the same damage done to that target essentially multiple times over.
Im really hoping, that whatever fix zeni comes up with after the initial backlash(pun 100% intended), will not.end up nerfing this skill to the ground.

Yea I agree but disagree.

Backlash, as crazy good as it is, shouldn't replace a burst spell. That's the fundamental issue with it; it's designed to be a group support, but it's being used to replaced our non-existent burst DPS. It's also dependant on more consistent DMG options in PvP settings. Also unstable core functions exactly like Sorc curse, but backlash also is like curse. Both are delayed burst options, but one is hidden behind cc immunity and the other is hidden by a DMG soak mechanic; both are terrible clunky designs compared to other classes.

But at the same time, curse can be applied multiple times by different sorcs on the Templar. So backlash should be the same. Question is, will each backlash be a separate debuff and therefore fill up 5 purges? If so, Templars greatly need mobilty outside of vampire.

They need to do the following (with emphasis that we are trading unblocked cc and straight forward DPS for these) :
- backlash only one per target. Promotes group play but coordinating who will be the backlasher. But increase threshold and add secondary buffs for PvP
a) secondary effects could be minor beserk, minor expedition, minor vulnerability, etc.
b) second effect could be a cc effect?
- burning light should be unblockable and undodable. It's target applied DMG, and therefore unavoidable outside of ignoring the DMG spells that proc it.
- blazing shield is weird. It's defensive in an offensive based tree. And it's offensive stats have been stripped away to the point of it's being useless. Redesign is required.
- eclipse should grant effect outside of cc immunity always. Minor life steal/minor resists could be for the total dark, whereas unstable core could receive a boost to it's already designed outside-cc immunity time bomb damage.
- reflective light isn't widely used for AOE pulls that much (at least compared to WoE) Given its DPS primary ranking, both morphs should be increased to give equal direct DMG to force pulse and reflective light granting a boost to dps? Keep the snare. Another reason reflective light shouldn't be AOE, is that solar barrage is an AOE ability with unstable core another AOE ability.
- make major prophecy to activation of Dawn's wraith ability instead if reflective light. This way a Templar can be flexible in the ability they slot and justify giving raw DMG boost to the primary dps ability of Dawn's wraith tree.
- solar barrage should be instant cast since it's blockable. No reason to have a cast time on a 2 second delayed AOE that forces you to be in melee range. It should grant an offensive buff similar to it's morphed cousin, dark flare.
- Spears dot should be applied to Target after hit. This offsets dot DMG disappeared after someone takes the synergy increasing DPS in group situations. Also be applied after earthgore removes the spear.
- focused charge to bring nbs out of stealth. Or redesigned to be the orsinium guard spell everyone is asking for. Apply minor expedition on landing.
- repentance to return to work on multiple Templars on multiple corpses. Or of the intent is to have a group heal on corpses, at least let that one repentance grant stamina Regen for the players inside the radius.
- second morph of repentance to have cost looked into. Seemed weird that design intent for reduce abilities to have less cost to offset casting them ignored on this spell...
- update Ultimates as per joshlenoir's guide on the PvP combat forums. Those would give better combat effectiveness to Templars.

That's all I have for now.

Solar barrage should have a strong buff or debuff, empower in a dot class is...
An ill dnt talk about ults...

Solar Barrage is one of the coolest skill concepts with the multiple empowers...

With nothing to empower.

GOOD CLASS SYNERGY.

usmcjdking wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Can someone confirm multiple Backlashes (Purifying Light morph) from different Templars do not override each other?

Nope, like patchnotes say - you can stack backlash on one target now, each backlash shows up as separate debuff.
Wait when zerg will spam 5 backlashes on you

Well, I can't complain but I'm biased a bit. Though I dislike that a healbot is able to instantly deal ~5-7k damage to me.

Im fairly sure after this fix goes live the forums will quickly get flooded with salty posts of people dying to multiple backlashes, then zeni will do what people have been asking for and make only the casters damage get copied(with a small buff to compensate perhaps).
Im not a fan of this fix for pvp especially since different backlashes on the same target will copy the same damage done to that target essentially multiple times over.
Im really hoping, that whatever fix zeni comes up with after the initial backlash(pun 100% intended), will not.end up nerfing this skill to the ground.

Yea I agree but disagree.

Backlash, as crazy good as it is, shouldn't replace a burst spell. That's the fundamental issue with it; it's designed to be a group support, but it's being used to replaced our non-existent burst DPS. It's also dependant on more consistent DMG options in PvP settings. Also unstable core functions exactly like Sorc curse, but backlash also is like curse. Both are delayed burst options, but one is hidden behind cc immunity and the other is hidden by a DMG soak mechanic; both are terrible clunky designs compared to other classes.

But at the same time, curse can be applied multiple times by different sorcs on the Templar. So backlash should be the same. Question is, will each backlash be a separate debuff and therefore fill up 5 purges? If so, Templars greatly need mobilty outside of vampire.

They need to do the following (with emphasis that we are trading unblocked cc and straight forward DPS for these) :
- backlash only one per target. Promotes group play but coordinating who will be the backlasher. But increase threshold and add secondary buffs for PvP
a) secondary effects could be minor beserk, minor expedition, minor vulnerability, etc.
b) second effect could be a cc effect?
- burning light should be unblockable and undodable. It's target applied DMG, and therefore unavoidable outside of ignoring the DMG spells that proc it.
- blazing shield is weird. It's defensive in an offensive based tree. And it's offensive stats have been stripped away to the point of it's being useless. Redesign is required.
- eclipse should grant effect outside of cc immunity always. Minor life steal/minor resists could be for the total dark, whereas unstable core could receive a boost to it's already designed outside-cc immunity time bomb damage.
- reflective light isn't widely used for AOE pulls that much (at least compared to WoE) Given its DPS primary ranking, both morphs should be increased to give equal direct DMG to force pulse and reflective light granting a boost to dps? Keep the snare. Another reason reflective light shouldn't be AOE, is that solar barrage is an AOE ability with unstable core another AOE ability.
- make major prophecy to activation of Dawn's wraith ability instead if reflective light. This way a Templar can be flexible in the ability they slot and justify giving raw DMG boost to the primary dps ability of Dawn's wraith tree.
- solar barrage should be instant cast since it's blockable. No reason to have a cast time on a 2 second delayed AOE that forces you to be in melee range. It should grant an offensive buff similar to it's morphed cousin, dark flare.
- Spears dot should be applied to Target after hit. This offsets dot DMG disappeared after someone takes the synergy increasing DPS in group situations. Also be applied after earthgore removes the spear.
- focused charge to bring nbs out of stealth. Or redesigned to be the orsinium guard spell everyone is asking for. Apply minor expedition on landing.
- repentance to return to work on multiple Templars on multiple corpses. Or of the intent is to have a group heal on corpses, at least let that one repentance grant stamina Regen for the players inside the radius.
- second morph of repentance to have cost looked into. Seemed weird that design intent for reduce abilities to have less cost to offset casting them ignored on this spell...
- update Ultimates as per joshlenoir's guide on the PvP combat forums. Those would give better combat effectiveness to Templars.

That's all I have for now.

Solar barrage should have a strong buff or debuff, empower in a dot class is...
An ill dnt talk about ults...

Solar Barrage is one of the coolest skill concepts with the multiple empowers...

With nothing to empower.

GOOD CLASS SYNERGY.

"With nothing to empower" did u get it ZOS?