JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

For the record, I just finished my first Veteran Random Dungeon for the day, spent an hour in WGT, completed it in Hard Mode with strangers and for my troubles? A green geode, giving me a maximum of ONE crystal.

This was a thread posted to ZOS, hoping they would see it and change the drop rates. They don't know there's an issue if they don't hear from their players. Expressing concern is not whining and I will still play even if nothing changes.

You are mistaken or lying. You do not get green geodes from a vet dungeon. I've done too many of both. You get a purple geode. Greens are from normals. Even in hard mode you may have gotten 1 crystal since its 1-10. I do think Hard mode should be 4-25 like PvP. However if they do that then you should only be able to get it once per day since that is true for ROTW now.

Next next patch, no transmutation stones for anyone! Lol

What i don't understand is why it takes so long time to collect them... i mean... let the people just change the traits of their gear more easy, what's the difference? or what's the objective? make it difficult to keep the people playing more time to reach their objectives? players will always play once their reach the objectives because there is always something else to do.

VaranisArano wrote: »

The PVP drop rate is changing in Update 17 because the ability to get a geode by opening Rewards of the Worthy on characters that didn't earn them was an exploit.

PTS Patch Notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388819/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-0/p1

Transmutation
Rewards for the Worthy mails now only grant a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per account.
Previously, they would give a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per character.
The chance to get Transmutation Geodes from additional mails is unchanged.

Now, PVP players will be able to earn a guaranteed 4-25 stones per day that they earned Rewards of the Worthy, with a chance to gain extra from more Rewards.


Now, I agree that it would be nice for PVE players to get more geodes from their content, but the current dominance of the PVP method is an unintended consequence of how the mail system handled Rewards of the Worthy which will be changing.

Well that's still not true is it ...

Cos we don't even have the option to earn them with alternate characters by going into PvP and getting one with that characters first reward now it's locked to the account

Maybe they should have locked reward mail to characters to better deal with said exploit

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

DLC dungeons geode drop rate could be increased

But I think players should try to PVE and PVP to understand both sides.

PVP seriously gets the shaft on most things, not all, but most.

Honestly there just isn't time to do both most of the time. Worse yet it is rare to be able to do both without overhauling a character or having a character built to do each (at least well). Also, why we have to respec morphs is beyond idiotic at this stage of the game's life and characters should have access to both morphs once the base skill hits IV. The sad truth is that ZOS designed the game to pit PvE against PvP instead of making them compliment one another.

Or, maybe, some people are just envious ? To be honest this whole conversation looks like my cat asking for the stuff I'm cooking, and when she gets it she's like "Meh, what's this, I don't want this, I want the other thing, the one that smells good", and I'm like "B*** I gave you meat, do you want the vegetables ?".

All I see is a lot of speculation from people admitting they don't play that aspect of the game, so logic dictates, they shouldn't have data about it... They are just looking at other people's pot and assuming they have something delicious in it, while they're eating tuna casserole.

The premise is "PvP is better for farming crystals" because they heard that PvP players sits at crystals cap forever. Problem is, the premise takes into account something ZoS did not consider which was getting a bunch of RotW on one toon (ideally your PvP main) and then relog all your alts to get the first guaranteed geode over and over. This was not intended and it will be changed once the next update hits. Once this goes, the whole premise crumbles.

Having to respec morphs ... you have stamina morphs and magicka morphs, so unless you introduce soft caps and promote hybrids, you need one or the other... I don't understand the question, nor your conclusions (._. )

Transairion wrote: »

I would get min. 4 and be lucky to get any more that day, even though I received a ton of RotW each day.

Sounds exactly what doing 4 Dungeons (Pledges + random) gives out, with any other crystals at the mercy of RNG.

Assuming PTS stays the same, there'll be 10k AP per Battleground (last place) in the future though...

Read the patch notes for the next update, you're arguing for the sake of argument, as this is already being changed. You only get a geode from the first RotW per day per account.
Reread those patch notes, the only change is the guaranteed geode from the first mail will only come once per account... you'll still get geodes at random for every RotW bag after that.

And you have the chance for the last boss in a dungeon to drop stones, which is comparable to my chance to get extra geodes, so what ? To give a little bit of perspective, just opened 17 RotW, only got the 1st geode.

Transairion wrote: »

I'm not, I'm assuming you play PvE and enjoy PvE, therefore you at least do the daily pledges.
Once you have enough Undaunted keys, what reason is there to do Pledges anymore? No need to assume playing PvE is limited to doing Pledges for keys/helms on Vet.

Same reason I keep doing PvP, because I enjoy it...? I'm starting to have doubts about it now, I guess you don't enjoy PvE after all if it's such a chore. You don't do trials, you don't do arenas, and you don't do DLC dungeons. You make it sound like even regular dungeons are painful to go through. I would consider changing game if I were you.

Transairion wrote: »

3 dungeons daily, one of which is a normal dungeon, most people can solo those (that's right, most, not the 1%).
Not sure what you're trying to say here, as there's 3 pledges and 1 random dungeon (Normal or Vet, normal is faster of course) and it's complete RNG if the random matches up to a pledge on any given day. Thus usually running at least 4 dungeons, normal or otherwise.
Anyone who can solo a normal dungeon can solo a Cryodiil resource, by the way. Soloing group content requires knowing what you're doing, even if you think you can light attack through it naked.

Except resources in Cyrodiil won't give crystals, and no, your assumption is incorrect, that's not always the case. Flipping a resource might be faster than running a whole dungeon, but a normal dungeon is easier. If you tried you would know.

Transairion wrote: »

What if I need them now ?
Someone in desperate, desperate need of Transmute stones (I can't imagine why) is still going to grind PvE or PvP for those stones, either RotW bags or otherwise so I'm not sure this point. Given Transmutation is by design supplementary gearing, a fix to extreme bad luck really, I'm going to guess a lot of people don't need to "no life grind" for them over a day or anything.

As a player who plays both PvE and PvP, no, you're incorrect, I would first run pledges for guaranteed crystals, then go do PvP, and only if my Home Campaign is not overrun by EP, because, in that case, I won't get any crystal, not even the first RotW. I may even find them camping my base.

Transairion wrote: »

Getting 10k AP for a RotW is not comparable to a random normal dungeon, more like 2 pledges on vet. Again, that's for most people, I guess your personal experience is different.
You'll have to explain this one, as soloing Cryodiil resources for 1.6k AP or following a crowd into a Keep capture/actual player vs player battle is a far cry from Veteran Dungeons pugging, if I'm honest. If PTS remains then losing a Battleground for 10k AP every time is even easier.

The chances of getting a crowd to flip a keep are the same as getting a good group in Groupfinder, therefore your argument is inaccurate. I say this as a regular PvP and PvE player, and, I'm guessing, also as part of the 1%(TM) because I have access to the rest of the PvE content too, not just random normals (the last part was /sarcasm, I feel I have to specify that, the 1% is a myth).

The chances you get to flip a keep reliably heavily depends on:
1) Some semblance of population balance, or at least a tactical advantage (raid guilds online applying pressure).
2) The absence of enemy raid guilds farming AP that may decide to hit you from behind while you're capping.
3) The absence of PvE heroes camping the gate in hope of some retribution against toxic PvP players(TM), because a friend once told them that their cousin was ganked and tbagged.
4) The absence of pug raids defending said keep, otherwise it could take forever (we once defended Dragonclaw for hours against overwhelming odds. Glorious, but meaningless, defense ticks are rubbish).
5) Some other variables I'm forgetting, but you get the point (do you?).

You say "It's hard to get a group for dungeons, but I can just get in Cyrodiil and start flipping keeps" and I know you understand absolutely nothing about the discussion.

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

Aisle9 wrote: »

Except resources in Cyrodiil won't give crystals, and no, your assumption is incorrect, that's not always the case. Flipping a resource might be faster than running a whole dungeon, but a normal dungeon is easier. If you tried you would know.

If flipping a resource is Cyrodiil is harder than a normal dungeon, you need to work on your strategy for taking resources. I've soloed both resources and normal dungeons and resources are much, much quicker.

Now if you were trying to say that flipping 14 or so resources to get your 20K AP to get a Reward of the Worthy so you could get 4 stone minimum is equal to running the equivalent dungeons needed to get 4 stones - I think that's 2 vet HM pledges? - you'd be closer on the time/effort it takes.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

.

Mayrael wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Since I can only get one guaranteed uncracked geode a day (4-25 crystals) now on my account with 12 PvP characters, I think it would only be fair if PvE got the same treatment of only one per day on their account instead of being able to get multiple by running dungeons multiple times on alts.
See how this works? It may bite you in the arse.

THIS

You don't get gold geodes for running dungeons.
You have to do the HM just to get a purple geode... which usually nets you 1 transmute stone. If you're really lucky you can get 2 or 3. So after an hour or so of doing hard mode dailies... you might get 5 stones.

Also, there is hardly a person out there that does dailies with all their characters or even 2 or 3 characters. i almost always just do the 2 non dlc ones on my main... maybe another non dlc one on an alt and then i go off to do other things. so if i'm lucky, i'll get 4 or 5 stones a day.

Looks like we're even now after this fix... except your one geode/day can potentially net you 25 stones. Stop whining.

You don't get full gold geodes for rotw either you get uncracked transmutation geodes which can contain between 4 to 25 crystals usually 4. You only get a full 50 crystal gold transmutation geode for the 30 day campaign reward.
I am starting to care less about crystals anyway as anyone who PvP's as much as I do had their build done a long time ago and this has become a pita managing inventory.

yeah i just gotta say this...

I went in to cyrodiil last night for 2 hours.... just running around as a support tank. Heals, shields, CCs.

I came out with SEVEN rewards of the worthy.

I opened one on that tank. 5 stones
i opened another on an alt. 5 stones
i opened another on an alt. 5 stones.
another... 5 stones
another... 4 stones
another.... 4 stones
another.... 5 stones

So, in TWO hours.... i'm not joking, TWO hours. I came out of cyrodiil with 33 transmute stones.
In PVE no matter WHICH content you do... 2 hours of work (usually harder work than i just did in cyrodiil) nets you 4-5 stones, most times its less.

Are you kidding me??? and the pvp crowd has the chicken nuggets to come out here and COMPLAIN about this fix????

IT. IS. AN. EXPLOIT! I can't believe the complaints.... i really can't. Get over it. This is a necessary fix. There is NO reason you should be able to transmute 1 item every few hours when every pve player spends days to get that many transmute stones.
END OF STORY. move on.

Yes.

You are correct.

It's being addressed.

It won't be possible anymore after the next update.

We know that, they know that, everybody knows that, I guess you didn't get the memo.

Have a nice day.

I agree. The whole point of transmutation was to ease the painful grind of PvE... So they replaced it with another grind on top WTF haha

And you have the chance for the last boss in a dungeon to drop stones, which is comparable to my chance to get extra geodes, so what ? To give a little bit of perspective, just opened 17 RotW, only got the 1st geode.

Because doing 4 Dungeons gives you a max stone haul of, yes, 4 stones.

Earning 20k AP for the first time that day earns you, at minimum 4 stones.

The "extra bonus stones" are random and have a terrible droprate for both which is balanced (if bad for everyone): and one should be able to get first RotW rewards of the day across all your characters... if those characters actually earn them in PvP. But since ZOS seems incapable or unwilling to linking per-character, they're removing the ability to get first RoTW rewards on characters who haven't done any PvP and just claim it in the mail.

Same reason I keep doing PvP, because I enjoy it...? I'm starting to have doubts about it now, I guess you don't enjoy PvE after all if it's such a chore. You don't do trials, you don't do arenas, and you don't do DLC dungeons. You make it sound like even regular dungeons are painful to go through. I would consider changing game if I were you.

Ignoring the personal insults, you do realize there is a lot to do in ESO under the PvE banner? All quests in the base game? All DLC (Imperial City has PvE quests lol), non-Pledge dailies? When you not after any gear or Undaunted keys and you don't feel like doing dungeons, why would you?

Except resources in Cyrodiil won't give crystals, and no, your assumption is incorrect, that's not always the case. Flipping a resource might be faster than running a whole dungeon, but a normal dungeon is easier. If you tried you would know.

I take resources as a magicka character, who as you should know gets Negates tossed on them at an alarming rate by the "working as intended" Honor Guards. Unless the entire map is dominated by one faction, flipping a resource is doable regardless of map action: as soon as you add more people, they get completely steamrolled (dungeons are 4 player after all, 4 players flipping the same resource then moving to the next is easy AP without any PvP at all).

Running dungeons over and over and over doesn't give crystals either, it's the same RNG as more geodes in the RotW bags. Read that as, really really bad. When I was trying to get a Spider Cultist hat from Fungal Grotto I, it took well over 30-40 completions before I got one in any trait at any. You'd think you'd get a lot of geodes from that many final bosses but... nope. Less than 6 total.

As a player who plays both PvE and PvP, no, you're incorrect, I would first run pledges for guaranteed crystals, then go do PvP, and only if my Home Campaign is not overrun by EP, because, in that case, I won't get any crystal, not even the first RotW. I may even find them camping my base.

So you play on a PvP server dominated and freefarmed by another faction but can't find any PvP? That's a bit contradictory... I also have to presume you refuse to play Battlegrounds/buy Morrowind because the AP provided that goes towards RotW as well, even if you lose.

The chances of getting a crowd to flip a keep are the same as getting a good group in Groupfinder, therefore your argument is inaccurate. I say this as a regular PvP and PvE player, and, I'm guessing, also as part of the 1%(TM) because I have access to the rest of the PvE content too, not just random normals (the last part was /sarcasm, I feel I have to specify that, the 1% is a myth).

I'm sorry if your PvP server faction is incapable of capturing any Cryodiil resources, since even a filthy PvEr like me can assist capturing Keeps, resources, towns and Imperial City flags in NA Vivec. Of course, my local timezone differs to yours I'm sure so in your view I'm probably a "dirty night-capper" because the NA residents are going to bed and Vivec doesn't have a 90+ player queue to enter.

Keeps are not the be all and end all either as you know, they simply grant the most AP for their capture: just yesterday I couldn't find any AP-earning opportunities in the close areas (alt character with no horse speed, so didn't want to ride across the whole map :X) so I ran into Imperial City instead and took those flags, which have even less defence than the resources (and award the same AP lol).

You say "It's hard to get a group for dungeons, but I can just get in Cyrodiil and start flipping keeps" and I know you understand absolutely nothing about the discussion.

Don't misquote, because getting into a dungeon is the easy... the group you get being capable of clearing say, vRoM HM which happens to be the pledge for the day is a very different story. No completion = no reward. Flipping keeps, resources, flags, getting kills in Cryodiil all give AP which is the only requirement for RotW and end-of-the-month rewards: if keeps aren't an option, then resources, then flags. If getting completely steamrolled, head to your Guest campaign. If you're getting steamrolled in both and can't earn any AP at all, there's still Battlegrounds (assuming you bought Morrowind).

Earning AP is still very possible (I won't say effiecent) if you're completely incompetent at PvP, but on the PvE side if you're incompetent at it you won't be able faceroll through vHM Dungeons or anything higher level like that. And yes, it is higher level when you consider how some players function in Normal dungeons.

Especially quoting veteran Dragonstar Arena as something you can just "go ahead and run" just ruins your point.


Thanks for taking the time to respond though~

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

If it's taking you hours to go through 3 hard mode vet pledges, then you're doing it wrong. You need to find a guild that does pledges and work with them. It takes my guild members and myself about an hour to do all 3 pledges. A few pledge delves take a little longer thus extending the to an hour and a half.

What about those of us who don't run dungeons? What do we get? Your idea of PvE content may not be mine. I don't want to group with five players that are going to kick me when they feel like it. I didn't pay money for that.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seriously these threads have got to be the saltiest threads anyone can make. Instead of making the thread about buffing crystal rewards for PvEers. Youve made it about why ZOS needs to nerf PvP rewards. You cant possibly be naive enough to believe that attacking PvP rewards would result in better rewards for PvE.

But what goes around comes around.

The OP did not ask to nerf PVP crystal gain

I wanna know is why are PVP players getting so salty? We didn't ask them to nerf PVP crystals, we're asking to buff PVE's crystal gain, literally makes no difference to you.

Oh wait... NOW I know why PVP players are so upset, if we get decent crystals in PVE like they do, they can't farm us in PVP when we're trying to get crystals in their land.

Okay case closed, PVP players can't read the OP's post and are salty because we have less of a reason to get farmed by them.

Transairion wrote: »

And you have the chance for the last boss in a dungeon to drop stones, which is comparable to my chance to get extra geodes, so what ? To give a little bit of perspective, just opened 17 RotW, only got the 1st geode.

Because doing 4 Dungeons gives you a max stone haul of, yes, 4 stones.

Earning 20k AP for the first time that day earns you, at minimum 4 stones.

The "extra bonus stones" are random and have a terrible droprate for both which is balanced (if bad for everyone): and one should be able to get first RotW rewards of the day across all your characters... if those characters actually earn them in PvP. But since ZOS seems incapable or unwilling to linking per-character, they're removing the ability to get first RoTW rewards on characters who haven't done any PvP and just claim it in the mail.

If you do all 3 pledges + 1 random, that's a maximum of 31 stones, not sure where you get your numbers, but they are inaccurate. Even if you only do 2 pledges that's a maximum of 21 and a minimum of 3. If you do 2 pledges and 2 randoms that's a maximum of 24 stones.

Earning 10k AP for the first time that day earns you, at minimum, 4 stones, maximum 25 stones. The 25k AP are needed for the end of the month campaign reward. You're getting your numbers mixed up.

What you're not addressing is the fact that you have 3 geodes with RNG chances, as opposed to me having only 1. Mine may have a larger minimum reward, but you have better chances to get a higher reward in total. I'm using "Me" and "You" as devices to identify 2 fictional players, one that does only PvE (You) and one that does only PvP (Me). I know it's not the case, but bear with me.

As for the extra geodes from the RotW, they are as rare as the extra crystals from the last boss, so we can safely ignore them.

Transairion wrote: »

Same reason I keep doing PvP, because I enjoy it...? I'm starting to have doubts about it now, I guess you don't enjoy PvE after all if it's such a chore. You don't do trials, you don't do arenas, and you don't do DLC dungeons. You make it sound like even regular dungeons are painful to go through. I would consider changing game if I were you.

Ignoring the personal insults, you do realize there is a lot to do in ESO under the PvE banner? All quests in the base game? All DLC (Imperial City has PvE quests lol), non-Pledge dailies? When you not after any gear or Undaunted keys and you don't feel like doing dungeons, why would you?

Ignoring something that doesn't exists is always a good choice, I commend you on that.

Yes, I also realize you don't get crystals from doing RP in taverns, should we ask for that to change or do we agree it's not worth discussing in this context ? I do enjoy running dungeons, btw. I have every single helmet and every single shoulder piece, plus a healthy number of spare keys, I still keep doing dungeons for the fun of it, despite knowing most of them by heart.

I assumed other people did too. I guess I was wrong.

Transairion wrote: »

Except resources in Cyrodiil won't give crystals, and no, your assumption is incorrect, that's not always the case. Flipping a resource might be faster than running a whole dungeon, but a normal dungeon is easier. If you tried you would know.

I take resources as a magicka character, who as you should know gets Negates tossed on them at an alarming rate by the "working as intended" Honor Guards. Unless the entire map is dominated by one faction, flipping a resource is doable regardless of map action: as soon as you add more people, they get completely steamrolled (dungeons are 4 player after all, 4 players flipping the same resource then moving to the next is easy AP without any PvP at all).

Running dungeons over and over and over doesn't give crystals either, it's the same RNG as more geodes in the RotW bags. Read that as, really really bad. When I was trying to get a Spider Cultist hat from Fungal Grotto I, it took well over 30-40 completions before I got one in any trait at any. You'd think you'd get a lot of geodes from that many final bosses but... nope. Less than 6 total.

As soon as you add more people they get steamrolled if the defending faction doesn't come with even more people. There's actually a common strategy small scale groups use to lure people somewhere that consists in taking a resource and waiting for the defending pugs to come and try to solo.

My point is that it's much more flexible, as opposed to having the exact same fight every time (dungeon), therefore running dungeons is less reliant on what hundreds of people currently playing decide to do. Running dungeons over and over does give you crystals, but we agree it's similarly bad RNG as extra geodes from RotW, so let's ignore that too.

Transairion wrote: »

As a player who plays both PvE and PvP, no, you're incorrect, I would first run pledges for guaranteed crystals, then go do PvP, and only if my Home Campaign is not overrun by EP, because, in that case, I won't get any crystal, not even the first RotW. I may even find them camping my base.

So you play on a PvP server dominated and freefarmed by another faction but can't find any PvP? That's a bit contradictory... I also have to presume you refuse to play Battlegrounds/buy Morrowind because the AP provided that goes towards RotW as well, even if you lose.

I refuse to play Battlegrounds because they removed the NO-CP BGs. They are putting them back next update, so I will be playing BGs again. That said, that was an assumption, though, as I never said I refuse to play BGs. I actually quite enjoy BGs, and I do own Morrowind.

I'd like for you to stop making wrong assumption and try to have a discussion based on facts instead, if possible (even if you did said "I assume").

Transairion wrote: »

The chances of getting a crowd to flip a keep are the same as getting a good group in Groupfinder, therefore your argument is inaccurate. I say this as a regular PvP and PvE player, and, I'm guessing, also as part of the 1%(TM) because I have access to the rest of the PvE content too, not just random normals (the last part was /sarcasm, I feel I have to specify that, the 1% is a myth).

I'm sorry if your PvP server faction is incapable of capturing any Cryodiil resources, since even a filthy PvEr like me can assist capturing Keeps, resources, towns and Imperial City flags in NA Vivec. Of course, my local timezone differs to yours I'm sure so in your view I'm probably a "dirty night-capper" because the NA residents are going to bed and Vivec doesn't have a 90+ player queue to enter.

Keeps are not the be all and end all either as you know, they simply grant the most AP for their capture: just yesterday I couldn't find any AP-earning opportunities in the close areas (alt character with no horse speed, so didn't want to ride across the whole map :X) so I ran into Imperial City instead and took those flags, which have even less defence than the resources (and award the same AP lol).

If you're filthy you should bathe more often. It irrelevant in this context though.

I'm also happy that you can cap whatever you want in NA Vivec, but, as many people often said, "Murica ain't the whole world", so, maybe you should start an argument about how this is an issue in the US..?

Because, meanwhile, the rest of the world is having different issues, and this ease with which you can farm transmute crystals by simple virtue of "being there"... yeah, not a thing here, sorry. I mean, it is currently, but it's already being addressed, so the point is moot.

For reference:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389667/imperial-city-zergs#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389496/imperial-city-pve#latest

Transairion wrote: »

You say "It's hard to get a group for dungeons, but I can just get in Cyrodiil and start flipping keeps" and I know you understand absolutely nothing about the discussion.

Don't misquote, because getting into a dungeon is the easy... the group you get being capable of clearing say, vRoM HM which happens to be the pledge for the day is a very different story. No completion = no reward. Flipping keeps, resources, flags, getting kills in Cryodiil all give AP which is the only requirement for RotW and end-of-the-month rewards: if keeps aren't an option, then resources, then flags. If getting completely steamrolled, head to your Guest campaign. If you're getting steamrolled in both and can't earn any AP at all, there's still Battlegrounds (assuming you bought Morrowind).

Earning AP is still very possible (I won't say effiecent) if you're completely incompetent at PvP, but on the PvE side if you're incompetent at it you won't be able faceroll through vHM Dungeons or anything higher level like that. And yes, it is higher level when you consider how some players function in Normal dungeons.

Especially quoting veteran Dragonstar Arena as something you can just "go ahead and run" just ruins your point.

If I misquoted I apologize, but I think we can agree this is happening to both of us. This whole post you made was pretty much all misquoting and assumptions, but I forgive you

Not being able to complete the content won't give you a reward, you are correct.
Completing objectives in PvP (flipping keeps, res, getting kills) will give you AP, you are also correct.
Completing content require proficiency, also correct.

Your point ? That PvP players have to complete PvP objectives and PvE players have to clear PvE content, and that is unfair ?

You get crystals from completing challenges.

In PvP the challenges are to:
1) Kill enemy players.
2) Flip keeps
2) Flip resources.

In PvE the challenges are:
1) Clear dungeons.
2) Clear trials.
3) Clear arenas.
4) Clear a selection of dungeons decided randomly (Daily pledges)
5) Clear a selection of trials decided randomly (Weekly trials)
6) Kill boss enemies

You think it's an injustice because the content required in PvE is harder? I can't help you there.

We agree that 10k AP for losing a BG is moronic, IMO you should get nothing for losing, but that's a clear bait to promote BGs, so... yeah

Transairion wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to respond though~

You're welcome.

DHale wrote: »

2 for normals five for vet and 8 hard mode and 10 for random vets. Nerfing pvp and not buffing pve makes no sense.

You might want to double check your numbers