Very Frustrated with Transmutation Crystals ZOS (PvE vs. PvP)

idk · January 2018

I'm sure someone has said this already but read the patch notes for the pts. It's changing for PvP. It should be more balanced.

jakeedmundson · January 2018

esotoon wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

These negotiations are becoming extremely one-sided....but i'm in.

LOL they are a little, so I will throw in the 65 skill points from Cyrodiil, and all the PVP based dyes and achievement furnishings, to seal the deal.

Hey ZOS - this matter has now been settled amicably between the once divided player base. Please close the thread and implement these changes post-haste!

Inarre · January 2018

We can never have a discussion remotely. Related to pve/pvp without someone bringing up undaunted skill lines or alliance skill lines... Dude it's been like this for years. Can we build a bridge and get over it already.

Colecovision · January 2018

I wish there was a permanent ignore for anyone still calling the upcoming change a nerf. An exploit is being fixed.

Let me try and help. If there is a soda machine that is giving free sodas and the repair man comes to fix it, don't be mad at the guy eating a sandwich at a picnic table.. You aren't supposed to get free soda.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2018

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

honestly i think they should increase the amount of crystals you get to AT LEAST 5 per pledge, probably rather 10... the amount im earning now - from my perspective - they can just get ridd of them again to be honest...makes no difference of me, the whole system seems futile

Precisely. The amount of time it takes to grind the piece of gear with the correct trait is usually less than it takes to get 50 crystals.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Have you ever done an actual grind in this game like VMA or searching for a trial weapon in the perfect trait?

The point of Transmute crystals was to help put a finish line on the gear grind, not completely replace it. Yes in the current system, PVP is a better place to get crystals, but really only because of what they are calling an exploit. It is being fixed. Take that away and the playing field is pretty level. There are plenty of ways to get them in PVE.

If you are trying to use crystals to re-work an entire build, well you are going to be grinding a lot. If you try to use them to complete a build (weapons, maybe a monster helm) you will have a better time of it.

Hurtfan · January 2018

It's not an exploit, an exploit is taking advantage of a bug. The drop rate is being nerfed, but correct me if I'm wrong because it really doesn't matter either way, still going to PvP mainly for the transmutation crystals.

esotoon · January 2018

Colecovision wrote: »

I wish there was a permanent ignore for anyone still calling the upcoming change a nerf. An exploit is being fixed.

Let me try and help. If there is a soda machine that is giving free sodas and the repair man comes to fix it, don't be mad at the guy eating a sandwich at a picnic table.. You aren't supposed to get free soda.

Not the best of analogies, and yes, for some, it *is* a nerf.

PVPers were meant to get rewarded with one guaranteed drop per character, per day (the same as PVEers). Due to ZOS not being able to make the mail sytem work on a per character basis, in order to fix the exploit they have now changed that to one guaranteed drop a day per account. So for players who play PVP on multiple characters this is most definitely a nerf.

Dawnblade · January 2018

The mail bug / exploit should never have gone live, correcting it is simply correcting a mistake - outside of that change, time spent in game for similar activities in either PVP or PVE should award similar amounts.

Oh and all this 'whataboutism' crap from each side is just silly, it isn't the players but the developer who create issues which shouldn't exist by trying to have both PVE and PVP in the same game with a lots of overlap and little seperation.

If anyone should be blamed or shamed, it should be ZOS.

They are the ones that put sets most useful for PVP in PVE instances, brought us the never-ending stupidity of useful PVE skills in Assault line and useful PVP passives in the Undaunted line, continually nerf skill A / class B / set C for balance issues in one and negatively affected the other, put story chain quests in PVP zones, etc, etc.

Colecovision · January 2018

Going silly with analogies sometimes works out poorly.

I bite the bullet and go to cyrodil for crystals. I get tons of in short amounts of time, all on one character. The way I understand it, that won't change by even one crystal. So I guess if you really are doing pvp on multiple characters there's some loss, but it's still hard to imagine it being a problem. If you like pvp you should have lots of crystals. Pve complaints haven't touched that and as a solo pver who depends on the easy pvp crystals, I'm glad.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2018

Also as to the bug/exploit with the mail, arguing over what you call it is meaningless. It's purely semantics. It certainly failed the gut check. We all did it, but we all knew from the start that it was too good to be true and wouldn't last. Call it what you will.

Hurtfan · January 2018

I don't know anything about a mail exploit...I PvPd and received nodes, that's it.

Already, as it was and maybe I was just unlucky, but would only receive on average 1 node/day playing about 3-4 hours of PvP.

Stahlor · January 2018

So then there is still the question - why do you get a purple geode with mainly 1 or 2 crystals when doing a hardmode dlc pledge and when you use a resto with rapid regen in pvp for about 5 min you get a golden geode with up to 10 crystals in?

zaria · January 2018

esotoon wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

I wish there was a permanent ignore for anyone still calling the upcoming change a nerf. An exploit is being fixed.

Let me try and help. If there is a soda machine that is giving free sodas and the repair man comes to fix it, don't be mad at the guy eating a sandwich at a picnic table.. You aren't supposed to get free soda.

Not the best of analogies, and yes, for some, it *is* a nerf.

PVPers were meant to get rewarded with one guaranteed drop per character, per day (the same as PVEers). Due to ZOS not being able to make the mail sytem work on a per character basis, in order to fix the exploit they have now changed that to one guaranteed drop a day per account. So for players who play PVP on multiple characters this is most definitely a nerf.

This, note that for me its an double nerf, I tend to pug zergs in pvp and then finding an good group I want to stick with them, not only because more AP but because its fun with an good group.
Still if you only do PvP a few days a week you can wait until next day with opening the second mail.

xaraan · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

Eh, they didn't "nerf" pvp, they fixed it so you couldn't log into different characters to get the rewards that one character earned, the cooldown was being skipped.

And even with that 'nerf' PvP is still the fastest way to earn the crystals by far. They need to buff the PvE earning methods at this point - despite me arguing about the fix, they don't need to actually nerf pvp, they need to buff pve at this point.

Buffler · January 2018

It cant be an exploit as ZOS perma ban "exploiters" now since the vAS "exploit"

Looks like the entire pvp base will be getting banned.

DarkAedin · January 2018

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

As the OP, I did not intend to make this a 'PvE vs. PvP' argument. I am sorry it has devolved into such.

I did not want the drop rate for my PvP brethren to change, I wanted the PvE drop rate increased to match. If PvE gets a Gold Geode for the first Veteran Random Dungeon per day, everyone wins. This is what it should be.

Random Daily Veteran Dungeon [Once per day]: Gold Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon Hardmode: Purple Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon: Blue Geode
Undaunted Pledge: Blue Geode
Random Daily Normal Dungeon [Once per day]: Purple Geode
Random Normal Dungeon: Green Geode

I don't work for ZOS but I think this is fair.

I will be honest, I am an older player, pushing 40. (Yikes) I am a career healer, it's what I love to do. I did it on WoW and now here. I have one max-level character. I also have a wife and two kids and a job. I'm fortunate that I get a few hours every other day to play and I simply don't have the time to do much besides dungeons, usually with PUG's. It works out because that is what I enjoy. (And occasionally playing with my 60 year-old parents who are both higher CP than me.) Call me a scrub or tryhard, I don't care. I enjoy the game the way I play.

Transmutation Crystals have a purpose. They were created to be an alternate method of getting the correct trait on a piece of gear without grinding for weeks at a time. My view is that in PvE, this purpose is imbalanced, as it take longer to farm the crystals than it does to farm the gear with the correct trait. Since the crystals have been around I've transmuted one item. One. I've only collected maybe 57 total crystals, and a large portion of that was the one day a friend invited me to run around zerging in Cyrodil. I had never been there before and all of a sudden my mail is filling up with these goodie bags. The other day I went into a BG and won somehow and I received a gold geode.

The time-to-crystal ratio is where the imbalance lies.

I am sorry they are nerfing the drop rate in PvP. Apparently ZOS intended for the crystals to be rarer overall between both communities. I still disagree with the rarity.

Also, I would say some of the comments here have been less than respectful and I would hope that we could keep a certain level of civility.

Regards,

~ J. J.

@JJMaxx1980
The hilarity and reality of the situation is that players like YOU got hurt the most by this patch and u dont realize it.

B4 this upcoming change, YOU could have take 1 day out of the month and pvpd across a few toons. Like an hour or 2 per toon, per month. Each of those toons would have netted u end of campaign rewards of gold and jewels to sell + xmute stones.
Had YOU put in a few hours worth of ap gains and, maybe u would have gained enough ap to set u solid to open up a few mails/day.
All this in one days work, a few hours. U could even just sit at frontline keep with siege, skoria, and vd and amass more then enough ap while getting up and doing random chores around the house.
Now YOU cant do this.

I still have to farm vma, vdsa, dungeons gear and for helms and keys if i actually want to get my helm and shoulder like.... this week.....
Undaunted
Skyshards/skillpoint quests

All taking me outside of cyrodiil

Ya. Ur right, theres definitally an imballance. Just heavily in the opposite direction

#unnerfrotwdrops

Runefang · January 2018

Ilithyania wrote: »

200 is to low. earn more then I can use.

wish I could sell them.

@Ilithyania you can. Transmute a weapon to nirnhorned, decon it and hope for a potent nirncrux. Since transmuting doesn't use up a trait stone all you need is one potent nirn to start.

DarkAedin · January 2018

Btw. This also means that if u small man/solo pvp during the day, and u group pvp at night on a different toon, u get no crystals for ur 2nd toons work. Or yanno, just wanna complete all kill quests/day/toon or just play a different class/ style = no rewards.
but pver can log on an alt and do more pledges for keys.and log into cyro for 30min and flip a few resources and a keep

Still unfairly ballanced in favor of pvpers?

CardboardedBox · January 2018

I can't really figure out how to word this correctly, so sorry if it comes out weird, but I feel both modes should receive the same rewards with the same difficulty, so nobody has to leave their favorite mode. And, AND, they need to receive nerfs/buffs separately.

This beef between pve and pvp is getting ridiculous.

Hurtfan · January 2018

Stahlor wrote: »

So then there is still the question - why do you get a purple geode with mainly 1 or 2 crystals when doing a hardmode dlc pledge and when you use a resto with rapid regen in pvp for about 5 min you get a golden geode with up to 10 crystals in?

I received 20 in one node once

josiahva · January 2018

I have had no problem acquiring transmutation stones in PvE activities, I have received several hundred of them. I guess the question is just how many things you are transmuting? It doesn't seem particularly burdensome to collect them at a steady pace, unless you are trying to rush some new equipment set.

Aurielle · January 2018

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

I PvP AND PvE for my crystals, and I got stax on stacks of 'em more than y'all because I can do teh both. It's not fair! Nerf PvEvP crystal drops! PvEvP'ers is OP!

Hah, ditto. It helps to NOT be a self-entitled person who's unwilling to do what it takes to maximize rewards. It also helps to NOT take a childish "nerf anything that I don't enjoy doing" attitude to everything in this game. If the primary whiners in this thread had devoted the time they spent whining to Cyrodiil instead, they'd be well on their way to that 50 transmutation crystal payout, and then some.

Aurielle · January 2018

DarkAedin wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

As the OP, I did not intend to make this a 'PvE vs. PvP' argument. I am sorry it has devolved into such.

I did not want the drop rate for my PvP brethren to change, I wanted the PvE drop rate increased to match. If PvE gets a Gold Geode for the first Veteran Random Dungeon per day, everyone wins. This is what it should be.

Random Daily Veteran Dungeon [Once per day]: Gold Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon Hardmode: Purple Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon: Blue Geode
Undaunted Pledge: Blue Geode
Random Daily Normal Dungeon [Once per day]: Purple Geode
Random Normal Dungeon: Green Geode

I don't work for ZOS but I think this is fair.

I will be honest, I am an older player, pushing 40. (Yikes) I am a career healer, it's what I love to do. I did it on WoW and now here. I have one max-level character. I also have a wife and two kids and a job. I'm fortunate that I get a few hours every other day to play and I simply don't have the time to do much besides dungeons, usually with PUG's. It works out because that is what I enjoy. (And occasionally playing with my 60 year-old parents who are both higher CP than me.) Call me a scrub or tryhard, I don't care. I enjoy the game the way I play.

Transmutation Crystals have a purpose. They were created to be an alternate method of getting the correct trait on a piece of gear without grinding for weeks at a time. My view is that in PvE, this purpose is imbalanced, as it take longer to farm the crystals than it does to farm the gear with the correct trait. Since the crystals have been around I've transmuted one item. One. I've only collected maybe 57 total crystals, and a large portion of that was the one day a friend invited me to run around zerging in Cyrodil. I had never been there before and all of a sudden my mail is filling up with these goodie bags. The other day I went into a BG and won somehow and I received a gold geode.

The time-to-crystal ratio is where the imbalance lies.

I am sorry they are nerfing the drop rate in PvP. Apparently ZOS intended for the crystals to be rarer overall between both communities. I still disagree with the rarity.

Also, I would say some of the comments here have been less than respectful and I would hope that we could keep a certain level of civility.

Regards,

~ J. J.

@JJMaxx1980
The hilarity and reality of the situation is that players like YOU got hurt the most by this patch and u dont realize it.

B4 this upcoming change, YOU could have take 1 day out of the month and pvpd across a few toons. Like an hour or 2 per toon, per month. Each of those toons would have netted u end of campaign rewards of gold and jewels to sell + xmute stones.
Had YOU put in a few hours worth of ap gains and, maybe u would have gained enough ap to set u solid to open up a few mails/day.
All this in one days work, a few hours. U could even just sit at frontline keep with siege, skoria, and vd and amass more then enough ap while getting up and doing random chores around the house.
Now YOU cant do this.

I still have to farm vma, vdsa, dungeons gear and for helms and keys if i actually want to get my helm and shoulder like.... this week.....
Undaunted
Skyshards/skillpoint quests

All taking me outside of cyrodiil

Ya. Ur right, theres definitally an imballance. Just heavily in the opposite direction

#unnerfrotwdrops

Enjoy your +1 insightful. If ZOS takes the whining seriously and nerfs the end-of-campaign rewards, then it's not just PVPers who're going to lose out -- PVEers (and PvPvErs like me) lose out too.

So if that DOES end up happening, I'll give you all a preemptive, sarcastic "way to go, guys."

Silver_Strider · January 2018

My idea for transmute crystals distribution.

Geodes:
Green = 2
Blue = 3
Purple = 4
Gold = 5

Pledges
Normal = Green geode
Vet = Blue geode
Vet HM = Purple geode
Vet boss = chance at a Blue geode
Random Normal = Green geode
Random Vet = Blue geode.

Trials
Normal = Blue geode
Vet = Purple geode
Vet HM = Gold geode
Vet Boss = chance at a Purple geode.
Weekly Trial Leaderboard = 2 Gold geodes

PvP
1st Reward for the worthy = Blue
2nd-4th RftW = chance at a Green geode
5th RftW = Purple
6th-9th RftW = chance at a Blue geode
10th RdtW = Gold
11th and beyond = chance at a Purple geode
Weekly PvP Leaderboard = 2 Gold Geodes
Monthly = 10 Gold Geodes.

Would this be more fair than the current system?

purple-magicb16_ESO · January 2018

So instead of grindng for gear you're grinding for crystals? Transmute is so unattractive...

Colecovision · January 2018

It's hard for me to understand the idea of it being close. Crystals themselves are purposely heavily pvp. The arguments don't really play out the way the theories suggest on maximizing pve crystals. I get that some of the things are possible, but completing 4 - 6 pledges instead of getting one rftw isn't close. Also, some of us are solo getting one at a time from a solo dungeon. Trials aren't solo and I still don't have enough pve crystals to change a single gear piece.

Instead, I'm one of the guys that just bites the bullet and get crystals in cyrodil. I play 4ish hours a month, get a few rewards for the worthy and of course the big 50 at the end of the campaign. I have no pvp skills and my squishy main has never won a duel. Auto decline probably doesn't help that, but I lose without a group in cyrodil very quickly. So my personal experience is that it's ridiculously lopsided on the crystals themselves. Bottom line, I solo dungeons for almost no crystals and suck at pvp for many.

BUT, sorry fellow pve folk, I've got one for the pvpers that I don't think has been mentioned in this specific fashion. Personally I think it's a big one and the reason I don't think we should complain about the crystal distribution. Even soloing a normal dungeon I get at least 4 chances at gear. If I nail one, isn't that worth 50 crystals? While I can't kill the final boss in blackheart haven, I can sneak to the minibosses and chests. I love doing it. Those are fun minibosses imo and it's not that long when you skip the trash mobs. I got a Bone Pirate's Tatter divines jacket this weekend. That's better than a training jacket on content you hate and 50 crystals from what you like. I'm saving my easy pvp crystals for the end of putting the set together when it gets too specific. At the moment I have 2 divines and a bunch of not terrible traits from doing the part of the game I love. I don't love the hours I put in on pvp, but that complaint should be the overall general fact that the game really pushes you into doing content you don't even like. I think the OP was getting at that before pve vs pvp war broke out. Either way, I'm going with the flow on this one.

kargen27 · January 2018

xaraan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

Eh, they didn't "nerf" pvp, they fixed it so you couldn't log into different characters to get the rewards that one character earned, the cooldown was being skipped.

And even with that 'nerf' PvP is still the fastest way to earn the crystals by far. They need to buff the PvE earning methods at this point - despite me arguing about the fix, they don't need to actually nerf pvp, they need to buff pve at this point.

Actually they are doing both. If you PvP on one character then this is a fix. If you PvP on multiple characters then it is a nerf. Each character should be able to claim one reward of the day that character earned with a chance to get a geode. That once daily reward should be comparable to doing pledges.

VaranisArano · January 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

Eh, they didn't "nerf" pvp, they fixed it so you couldn't log into different characters to get the rewards that one character earned, the cooldown was being skipped.

And even with that 'nerf' PvP is still the fastest way to earn the crystals by far. They need to buff the PvE earning methods at this point - despite me arguing about the fix, they don't need to actually nerf pvp, they need to buff pve at this point.

Actually they are doing both. If you PvP on one character then this is a fix. If you PvP on multiple characters then it is a nerf. Each character should be able to claim one reward of the day that character earned with a chance to get a geode. That once daily reward should be comparable to doing pledges.

Yes with the way they did it, it is both a fix AND a nerf.

As originally intended, players with multiple PVP toons could play and get the first RotW on each toon and get the geodes.

The exploit was that they could get multiple RotW on one character and open them on different characters that didn't earn RotW to get the geodes.

The fix removes the exploit but also nerfs the ability of players with multiple PVP toons to get the geodes they earned in accordance with how the system was originally designed.

Its basically ZOS saying they can't fix the mail system or make the RotW work like the Undaunted rewards, so they're just making everything account-bound instead.

NyassaV · January 2018

PvE complaints has screwed up PvP, deal with the consequences. However! I do 1000% agree and believe that the current amount of transmute crystals that is given for doing PvE content is insultingly pathetic

Mayrael · January 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Since I can only get one guaranteed uncracked geode a day (4-25 crystals) now on my account with 12 PvP characters, I think it would only be fair if PvE got the same treatment of only one per day on their account instead of being able to get multiple by running dungeons multiple times on alts.
See how this works? It may bite you in the arse.

THIS