beetleklee wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can we rework MagDK a bit? I think testing the Flame Lash proc on burning instead of off balance would help. MagDK has awful sustain and the nerf to off balance uptime hurts it the most because this is the only build that really relies on off balance for damage and sustain. This would also let it not overperform in PVP where DOTs/burning can be purged.
Molten Whip can't be sustained either, same with Force Pulse. It'll probably dip to being completely bottom tier for DPS if this change goes live.
It's just disheartening to have a playstyle I enjoy so much and a character I've worked hard on keep getting indirectly nerfed each update when it needs help more than anything.
Also wouldn't mind some cost reduction on skills or a buff to Eruption (it costs a ton and could do more damage.) MagDK's sustain is so bad and this is the final nail in the coffin.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
beetleklee wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can we rework MagDK a bit? I think testing the Flame Lash proc on burning instead of off balance would help. MagDK has awful sustain and the nerf to off balance uptime hurts it the most because this is the only build that really relies on off balance for damage and sustain. This would also let it not overperform in PVP where DOTs/burning can be purged.
Molten Whip can't be sustained either, same with Force Pulse. It'll probably dip to being completely bottom tier for DPS if this change goes live.
It's just disheartening to have a playstyle I enjoy so much and a character I've worked hard on keep getting indirectly nerfed each update when it needs help more than anything.
Also wouldn't mind some cost reduction on skills or a buff to Eruption (it costs a ton and could do more damage.) MagDK's sustain is so bad and this is the final nail in the coffin.
Power Lash proc off burning is an interesting idea
You guys really want to make destro staff the new dominant meta?
If Flame Lash procced from Burning, everyone would run destro (since it literally doubles your chance of proccing burning). I've close to 100% uptime of it on my mag DK
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
You guys really want to make destro staff the new dominant meta?
If Flame Lash procced from Burning, everyone would run destro (since it literally doubles your chance of proccing burning). I've close to 100% uptime of it on my mag DK
mpicklesster wrote: »If I read that correctly I can only use the shards synergy once every 30 seconds? While also increasing block cost?
^^^^This. I understand ZOS's need to address permablock builds in PvP. However, since this is primarily a PvP gripe, it should be remedied with PvP filters such as Battle Spirit. Many forum threads have already offered numerous ways of remedying permablock builds via Battle Spirit. @ZOS_GinaBruno, if you have any say in the matter, could you redirect the developer's attention to those threads for some helpful suggestions?
I'm sure that I'm biased because I'm primarily a PvE trials tank. However, I think that me and other such tanks can attest to the fact that resource management is already tedious enough--and that permablocking is necessary in many parts of PvE; especially for the harder boss fights in vet trials and dungeons (e.g., the axes in vAA, the Mantikora in vSO, the Serpent in vSO, off-tanking the adds during the Serpent and Ozara boss fights in vSO, the Warrior in vHRC, the Air Atronach boss in vHRC, Velidreth in vCoS, many boss fights in vDSA, etc.). These such boss fights have little room for weaving in light or heavy attacks to regain stamina. Usually, attempts to weave in a heavy attack in these situations results in someone having to spend a soul gem on the tank!
Also, resource management has become progressively more tedious with each patch--which makes the tedious role of tanking even less enjoyable. Also keep in mind that, because the currently proposed changes to shards and block cost reduction are effectively a sustain nerf, they will disproportionately affect newer players (who notoriously struggle more with sustain). This will attract fewer of them to the role of tanking--which could negatively affect the growth of the PvE community for newer players.
Please, please, please reconsider alternative remedies to PvP permablock builds! Otherwise, the currently proposed changes will only inflate the perception that the developers lack the ability to balance PvP without hurting PvE.
Sincerely,
A player slowly loosing his will to tank trials
So if I'm to understand these changes to Off Balance correctly, my ShockSorc build is just obsolete now huh? Why? Seriously why? Can someone please explain to me why ZOS decided to destroy Off Balance? I'm part of a Vet Trials Team and Off Balance up time is one of my main jobs. Its what allows me to play at a high level the way I want to, with overwhelming amounts of Lightning. And now it looks like I'll have to become just another cookie-cutter build. And the biggest irony is how ZOS featured Xynode's "Easy Mode Sorc" build not too long ago (which is similar to my ShockSorc that focuses on Off Balance uptime), and now they've dedicated to defecate all over it. I just want someone to seriously explain to me why ZOS just killed Shock centric builds. I'm imagining its because this is ESO, where you're gonna play exactly how ZOS wants you to, and you're gonna like it. And I just finally got my Gold Netch's Touch Rings, what an extra slap in the face.
To Rustic, what they've done isn't balancing. Roughly 75% decrease in Off Balance uptime, seriously? Its invalidating a play style. Which I suppose is how ZOS "Balances". And I'm guessing what you mean by "adapting" is to become a cookie cutter meta build. My frustration is that a game that was supposed to be "play how you want" has just become one meta after another. If I play how I want now, all Vet end game content will be closed to my preferred build that up until now has been effective and fun. Unless its not as bad as it sounds, which is what I came here to find out. Not to be told once again that I'm gonna have to play this exactly how ZO$ wants me to or not play at all.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
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- When a cast time or channeled ability is interrupted, you will be staggered, stunned, and set Off Balance. After the stun ends, you gain crowd control immunity.
- Crowd control immunity now grants immunity to all interrupt effects. After a cast time or channeled ability is interrupted, you will be immune to any future interrupts until crowd control immunity wears off.
Does it mean that as soon as I break free from a stun I can Dark Deal in the enemy's face without being interrupted?
Not sure if that's what community asked for - But I'll take it - my Heavy Armor Sorc might be OP again!
But on a serious note ZOS - So much invested time to create this cluttered mechanic? WHY?
The current channeled mechanics works just fine!!!
MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.
Omg right!
I think the powerlash move is just bad. Magdks are gonna be even nastier in pvp. Lol.
Crowd control immunity should not last 7 seconds either. If its 3 seconds to cast again after a ability was interrupted it should be 3 seconds of uninterruptible abilities. 7 seconds?? Thats like a complete fight reset for stam sorcs.
I personally think the healing on dark deal/conversion should be reduced but otherwise the interrupt changes go in the right direction.
Interruptable skills are currently absolutely undesireable/unusable and this changes will put them in a better spot.
Moglijuana wrote: »Moglijuana wrote: »Moglijuana wrote: »jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »
You can set them off balance AFTER they have CC immunity making it get x4 free power lashes, I tested and confirmed it works.
While that sounds awesome...it probably needs to be looked at. Last thing everyone would want in pvp is a bunch of newb MDK's getting a bunch of free damage + heals throughout the entirety of a fight. Maybe increase the GCD of power lash so you can only get 2 off?
Please think objectivly. MagDKs might be dead in PvE due to upcoming off balance changes. Your suggestion puts the nail in the coffin. The game should not be balanced around the minority that is PvP.
I don't have a solution, but CD to Whip is not the answer.
They made these off balance changes for PvE in the first place...so uh... Regardless, a bunch of free power lashes in PvE seems broken too. Giving a small window to use as many power lashes seems fine for now, it just depends on how long a target stays off balance. If it is too long, than every single MagDD will switch to magDK which will just end up getting the class gutted all over again. Put it this way...I have a 14k Power Lash tooltip (on a PvP build mind you)...do you REALLY think it would be fair if I can get 4 off in a row leading to another stun to get another 4 off? Yea that's broken...even in PvE that would be broken.
Do you play PvE? MagDKs have the worst sustain out of all classes. Right now, the class is tolerated only by few guilds and is only viable with 80% off balance (we do hit 4+ flame leashes in a row in PvE).
If the current state of perma offbalance bosses from PTS doesn't stay, the new changes will lead to around 25% offbalance. This is a direct death wish to magdk.
You could think for a better way? Go ahead, but don't let PvP overtake all the balance decisions. It's a niche.
Someone suggested letting Power lash proc off the burning effect instead. that would be a Way, maybe. Burning could be purged at least.
I used to back when MagDK was near top DD yea. PvE turned extremely stale for me, community on console is toxic as can be and to be quite honest, I'm not a fan of the "Run through trials as fast as you can to compete".
Did you not read the in the PTS notes where they said they wanted to have heavy attacks done to maximize resource return at certain parts of boss fights (THIS WOULD BE DURING OFF BALANCE)? There is your resource solution. And it would affect everyone. If you say 80% is the current uptime of off balance...that seems way too high to begin with. That is probably the main problem as to why stam DD is so strong right now as well.
ALSO FLAME LASH USED TO BE A PVP ABILITY . But because off balance is now so prevalent and easy to upkeep, flame lash is used instead. It shouldn't be like that. Why choose an ability that stuns and heals (utility) vs an ability that is supposed to "technically" give you more dps overall? When you run in trials as a DD, healing should be your last priority. Seems like they want to capitalize on that change now.
Instead of making MDKs viable only during off balance (you say 80% right now) change them so they are viable for the whole fight and not just during off balance. Relying strictly on Flame Lash Procs and a BiS monster set seems like an extremely lame way to make MDK viable again.
And yes, I think being able to proc off burning enemies seems like a logical solution. Because you said it yourself, burning can be purged off and provides counter play in pvp.
Emma_Overload wrote: »MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.
Omg right!
I think the powerlash move is just bad. Magdks are gonna be even nastier in pvp. Lol.
Crowd control immunity should not last 7 seconds either. If its 3 seconds to cast again after a ability was interrupted it should be 3 seconds of uninterruptible abilities. 7 seconds?? Thats like a complete fight reset for stam sorcs.
I personally think the healing on dark deal/conversion should be reduced but otherwise the interrupt changes go in the right direction.
Interruptable skills are currently absolutely undesireable/unusable and this changes will put them in a better spot.
So our previously nearly useless heal is about to become occasionally useful, and you want it nerfed before we even get to use it? It doesn't even crit!
You guys really want to make destro staff the new dominant meta?
If Flame Lash procced from Burning, everyone would run destro (since it literally doubles your chance of proccing burning). I've close to 100% uptime of it on my mag DK
I'm all for things that split mDK from Sword & Board in PvP.
Carbonised wrote: »You guys really want to make destro staff the new dominant meta?
If Flame Lash procced from Burning, everyone would run destro (since it literally doubles your chance of proccing burning). I've close to 100% uptime of it on my mag DK
I'm all for things that split mDK from Sword & Board in PvP.
Yes, yes, and a million times yes. I don't like being forced into neither sword/shield nor heavy to be viable in open world PvP.
Inferno staff should be the default go-to weapon for a MagDK in PvE and PvP both.
rustic_potato wrote: »Boss enemies can only be set Off Balance once every 15 to 20 seconds. After the first Off Balance debuff ends on a boss enemy, they will be immune to subsequent Off Balance debuffs until this immunity duration is over.
4 Second Uptime and 15 Second cooldown?! 26,6% Uptime? or did I understand that incorrectly?
Yes. Good riddance to groups built around off balance uptime. Frankly it was annoying to do anything in PvE without off balance. This change will promote a bit more tactical play instead of boring monotonous DD rotations.
Lord_Ninka wrote: »I find it interesting how many people imply that a permablock build is the only viable option for end-game pve tanks. I don't have enough experience as a tank to tell for myself, but I can't help wondering, doesn't anyone disagree? Can't you tank end-game stuff without a permablock build?
If end-game PvE tanks really are forced into a permablock build, then I think that's an issue in itself. In my opinion it would be very bad for the game and the freedom we have in our builds if it's impossible to ever drop your block even for an occasional heavy attack.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
Carbonised wrote: »You guys really want to make destro staff the new dominant meta?
If Flame Lash procced from Burning, everyone would run destro (since it literally doubles your chance of proccing burning). I've close to 100% uptime of it on my mag DK
I'm all for things that split mDK from Sword & Board in PvP.
Yes, yes, and a million times yes. I don't like being forced into neither sword/shield nor heavy to be viable in open world PvP.
Inferno staff should be the default go-to weapon for a MagDK in PvE and PvP both.
No pls. Forced into block is bad. But then forcing them into staff for better rng burning so that we can use our spammable is a bad idea. Because we still have a reliance on block for defense, it'd just lower their effectiveness.
DK should be like warden with enough self synergies in defense and offense that they can run any weapon. I.e. Lash now working with talons and wings for defense.