Stam DK is Dead!

ChildOfLight · December 2017

Just adding my 2 cents.

StamDk is clearly lacking IDENTITY.

The same identity MagDk got from an accurate design work (let's say it, pushed over the limit since MagDk performs extremely better than stamDK in every situation pvp wise).

MagDk feels extremely unique, while stamDK feels like playing a StamNB with no Incapacitating Strike, no Surprise attack and no cloak.

Stam Dk is simply a diminished version of stamNB right now.

Let's not to talk about how frustrating is playing stamDk in ZergVSZerg situations.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Just adding my 2 cents.

StamDk is clearly lacking IDENTITY.

as we said 5 months ago.
Its kind of funny when you think about it, the ''easy mode'' class sDK, is now the hard mode class because It lacks on every department.
Its like playing one of those survival games..

DU5T__ST0RM · December 2017

diplomatt wrote: »

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

I've actually been playing heavy Stam blade with no cloak and it's like my dk but with a spammable attack, strong debuffs and more bar space because of how much buff/debuff you get with SA and incap.

heavy stamblade - snared or no burst heal - easy target.

Rally for a burst heal and efficient purge to remove snares. No cloak so I need a magic dump. Plus ambush is usable in talons and encase. Also draining shot on bow for extra heal. Sometimes thinking outside the box pays off.

Anethum · December 2017

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

I've actually been playing heavy Stam blade with no cloak and it's like my dk but with a spammable attack, strong debuffs and more bar space because of how much buff/debuff you get with SA and incap.

heavy stamblade - snared or no burst heal - easy target.

Rally for a burst heal and efficient purge to remove snares. No cloak so I need a magic dump. Plus ambush is usable in talons and encase. Also draining shot on bow for extra heal. Sometimes thinking outside the box pays off.

I'm already thinking out box man, rally is continuing in time skill, exp players prevent last tick so u get no heal from it and its not burst heal. Drain shot heal...its small both damage and heal, player get stun immunity after it, and u get no heal if stun didn't worked, its dodgable.. nb have no access tp major mending at all...should i continue?

But its not matter, topic of this thread is that stam dks are weakest stamina now

Thogard · December 2017

I think the problem with Stam DKs isn’t that they’re the weakest... they can actually be quite tough if built into a full tank build. But “unkillable” and “effective” are not the same thing.

I’m afraid that Stam DK has gone through an even worse version of what the mag sorc went through.... the class is effective at killing really bad players, even in large numbers, which generated a lot of QQ. But it was always just “alright” at killing good players.

Now that it’s been nerfed so much (or at least the things it uses most have been nerfed) it’s no longer the best class for killing bad players (hello stamden) but it has just been absolutely crippled in its ability to kill good players. This has been made much worse in the last patch because of two things:

1. DKs are best class for receiving heals. With the buff to befoul, DKs got hit the hardest. Another classic “stealth DK nerf”
2. DKs were the best at sustaining while blocking. Not the best sustain, but best sustain while holding down that right mouse button. This allowed them to really use Wrath. With the nerf to wrath, DKs felt it more than any other class because it synergized better with DK than any other class.
Bonus: Shuffle, but only because DK doesn’t have a class way to break out of snare, or a spammable heal a la Stamden that allows use of forward momentum
Bonus two: can’t dodge roll dawn breaker anymore, shortening the gap between a DBoS and a leap.

The fact is that the poor DK class is really only good at 1vX, blocking, and healing. But ZOS is trying to get rid of 1vX by making it harder to block and heal. Sadly the DK class passives have not been reworked.

What I want more than anything is a class Stam dmg passive. DKs are the ONLY class without one. Many classes have two! All DKs get is a passive for their AOE flame dmg and burning effect, which is virtually unusable by Stam DKs

If you want to fix Stam DKs, it’s easy. Give them implosion, and give wings a Stam morph that gives 8s of root/snare immunity. Done. Class execute ? Solved. CC vulnerability? Solved. PvE won’t be affected.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

I think the problem with Stam DKs isn’t that they’re the weakest... they can actually be quite tough if built into a full tank build. But “unkillable” and “effective” are not the same thing.

I’m afraid that Stam DK has gone through an even worse version of what the mag sorc went through.... the class is effective at killing really bad players, even in large numbers, which generated a lot of QQ. But it was always just “alright” at killing good players.

Now that it’s been nerfed so much (or at least the things it uses most have been nerfed) it’s no longer the best class for killing bad players (hello stamden) but it has just been absolutely crippled in its ability to kill good players. This has been made much worse in the last patch because of two things:

1. DKs are best class for receiving heals. With the buff to befoul, DKs got hit the hardest. Another classic “stealth DK nerf”
2. DKs were the best at sustaining while blocking. Not the best sustain, but best sustain while holding down that right mouse button. This allowed them to really use Wrath. With the nerf to wrath, DKs felt it more than any other class because it synergized better with DK than any other class.
Bonus: Shuffle, but only because DK doesn’t have a class way to break out of snare, or a spammable heal a la Stamden that allows use of forward momentum
Bonus two: can’t dodge roll dawn breaker anymore, shortening the gap between a DBoS and a leap.

The fact is that the poor DK class is really only good at 1vX, blocking, and healing. But ZOS is trying to get rid of 1vX by making it harder to block and heal. Sadly the DK class passives have not been reworked.

What I want more than anything is a class Stam dmg passive. DKs are the ONLY class without one. Many classes have two! All DKs get is a passive for their AOE flame dmg and burning effect, which is virtually unusable by Stam DKs

If you want to fix Stam DKs, it’s easy. Give them implosion, and give wings a Stam morph that gives 8s of root/snare immunity. Done. Class execute ? Solved. CC vulnerability? Solved. PvE won’t be affected.

This is a good point. But every time you use stamDk and damage in same sentence angry pve carebears will tell you how op sdk is and how trials are full of them.

And them they say pvp ruins pve. Lol.

ezeepeezee · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

I think the problem with Stam DKs isn’t that they’re the weakest... they can actually be quite tough if built into a full tank build. But “unkillable” and “effective” are not the same thing.

I’m afraid that Stam DK has gone through an even worse version of what the mag sorc went through.... the class is effective at killing really bad players, even in large numbers, which generated a lot of QQ. But it was always just “alright” at killing good players.

Now that it’s been nerfed so much (or at least the things it uses most have been nerfed) it’s no longer the best class for killing bad players (hello stamden) but it has just been absolutely crippled in its ability to kill good players. This has been made much worse in the last patch because of two things:

1. DKs are best class for receiving heals. With the buff to befoul, DKs got hit the hardest. Another classic “stealth DK nerf”
2. DKs were the best at sustaining while blocking. Not the best sustain, but best sustain while holding down that right mouse button. This allowed them to really use Wrath. With the nerf to wrath, DKs felt it more than any other class because it synergized better with DK than any other class.
Bonus: Shuffle, but only because DK doesn’t have a class way to break out of snare, or a spammable heal a la Stamden that allows use of forward momentum
Bonus two: can’t dodge roll dawn breaker anymore, shortening the gap between a DBoS and a leap.

The fact is that the poor DK class is really only good at 1vX, blocking, and healing. But ZOS is trying to get rid of 1vX by making it harder to block and heal. Sadly the DK class passives have not been reworked.

What I want more than anything is a class Stam dmg passive. DKs are the ONLY class without one. Many classes have two! All DKs get is a passive for their AOE flame dmg and burning effect, which is virtually unusable by Stam DKs

If you want to fix Stam DKs, it’s easy. Give them implosion, and give wings a Stam morph that gives 8s of root/snare immunity. Done. Class execute ? Solved. CC vulnerability? Solved. PvE won’t be affected.

Honestly I think snares/roots needs to be reduced in quantity and effectiveness across the board, instead of just giving one class a massive level of immunity.

ak_pvp · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

I think the problem with Stam DKs isn’t that they’re the weakest... they can actually be quite tough if built into a full tank build. But “unkillable” and “effective” are not the same thing.

I’m afraid that Stam DK has gone through an even worse version of what the mag sorc went through.... the class is effective at killing really bad players, even in large numbers, which generated a lot of QQ. But it was always just “alright” at killing good players.

Now that it’s been nerfed so much (or at least the things it uses most have been nerfed) it’s no longer the best class for killing bad players (hello stamden) but it has just been absolutely crippled in its ability to kill good players. This has been made much worse in the last patch because of two things:

1. DKs are best class for receiving heals. With the buff to befoul, DKs got hit the hardest. Another classic “stealth DK nerf”
2. DKs were the best at sustaining while blocking. Not the best sustain, but best sustain while holding down that right mouse button. This allowed them to really use Wrath. With the nerf to wrath, DKs felt it more than any other class because it synergized better with DK than any other class.
Bonus: Shuffle, but only because DK doesn’t have a class way to break out of snare, or a spammable heal a la Stamden that allows use of forward momentum
Bonus two: can’t dodge roll dawn breaker anymore, shortening the gap between a DBoS and a leap.

The fact is that the poor DK class is really only good at 1vX, blocking, and healing. But ZOS is trying to get rid of 1vX by making it harder to block and heal. Sadly the DK class passives have not been reworked.

What I want more than anything is a class Stam dmg passive. DKs are the ONLY class without one. Many classes have two! All DKs get is a passive for their AOE flame dmg and burning effect, which is virtually unusable by Stam DKs

If you want to fix Stam DKs, it’s easy. Give them implosion, and give wings a Stam morph that gives 8s of root/snare immunity. Done. Class execute ? Solved. CC vulnerability? Solved. PvE won’t be affected.

World in ruin is funny since its AoE poison and fire, but there are no AoE poison abilities, at all. Afaik it doesn't affect sets either. It'd have to be changed multi target so that nox and arrow spray would work too.

Implosion would never happen, since it would indeed affect PvE dps, and sorcs won't be happy. Also its a little bit of a scummy mechanic in general, which would get some annoyed.

DK wings, if they are bug fixed, so actually reflect the two most spammy abiliies (bird+pulse) and have the snare immunity added could potentially fix the entire class.
It'd allow stam to use a burst heal, not force use of mist, FM or shuffle, provide a defense that isn't block, and even give some class identity back. Though it'd have to be mag. Not bias speaking, but it'd match with the likes of cloak/purge/shimmering in that stam can use it with spare mag utility, and keep the stam for attacking and breaking free.

Cillion3117 · December 2017

That's what soul gems are for.

Arobain · December 2017

yes its dead because you specifically, or you and a group of players can not think of a way to play it, most likely because you are a meta cow that can not create a build

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Arobain wrote: »

yes its dead because you specifically, or you and a group of players can not think of a way to play it, most likely because you are a meta cow that can not create a build

Oh really?

I tried out more than 50 different combinations since morrowind, I guess I should have missed that one last magic build that is totally more OP than any meta set in the game.

Yeah.. I definitely learned nothing in 4 years. I couldn't even wait 5 months for a good sDk build.. what I meta cow I am!

but my stamden is tearing people a new one... Its almost like sDK is bad or something.. no.. that can't be because Arobain said that is not the case, he must be an expert at sDk... I wish he could teach me how to play sDk...

Ocelot9x · December 2017

Let's start saying that none of this changes will never happen because that's how zenimax do things,but it's always nice to daydream.
Noxious breath: instead of being a dot it would be nice if it explodes after 6 seconds doing the whole damage(on hit+dot,ignoring block,undodgeable).
Wings: one morph should give minor heroism+removing snares (or minor expedition). To not make it OP maybe reflecting just 3 projectiles.
Green dragon blood: Quite obvious,scales with max stamina.
Shifting standard: reduce the cost to 175,make it shift 2 times and stun enemies when it lands+poison damage+minor evasion to every ally inside it.
Kindling (passive): enemies affected by your dots gets 2/4% more damage from your class abilities
Elder dragon(passive): If a draconic skill is slotted reduce the cost of skills by 2/4%
Draw essence (inhale morph): convert to a stamina ability,inflicts minor maim to enemies affected by the first it.
Those changes are IMHO quite balanced and will finally give to the sDK a proper identity and a role in group play without making them OP.
Let me hear your opinion about that.

That's a discussion I made in general discussions, lets hear main dk opinions

Anethum · December 2017

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

I've actually been playing heavy Stam blade with no cloak and it's like my dk but with a spammable attack, strong debuffs and more bar space because of how much buff/debuff you get with SA and incap.

heavy stamblade - snared or no burst heal - easy target.

Rally for a burst heal and efficient purge to remove snares. No cloak so I need a magic dump. Plus ambush is usable in talons and encase. Also draining shot on bow for extra heal. Sometimes thinking outside the box pays off.

Snares spammable, defile spammable...
And I'll ask your from my box, efficient purge cost isn't a problem ye?

...this thread is about stam dks

Skoomah · December 2017

Can we get a response from ZOS?

Anethum · December 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Green dragon blood: Quite obvious,scales with max stamina.
Shifting standard: reduce the cost to 175,make it shift 2 times and stun enemies when it lands+poison damage+minor evasion to every ally inside it.
That's a discussion I made in general discussions, lets hear main dk opinions

Green dragon stamina scaling
Shifting standart poisonous
And to make healing morf of Inferno - poisonous for staminadk.
Maybe subjective but I really like concept of burst timed with inferno proc similar to how it can perform on magdk in pvp today.
Also, Take flight can have root effect after cc, similar to post-Fossilize effect to make it more different from Downbreaker.

Cool in all that things that only poisonous morf of Inferno will give more damage in pve, but think these every 5 seconds procs will not make it much more stronger than now. Also, if this morf costs stamina - it will be harder to manage stamina..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom It's propositions to buff overnerfed stamina dk in pvp and make him more unique with simple and logic efforts.

amir412 · December 2017

diplomatt wrote: »

heavy stamblade - snared or no burst heal - easy target.

Ya right, they are so tanky, they dont even need a burst heal. *cough* major evasion on heavy armor *cough*

Lets face it, stam dk is doomed.
U can either go the path of med armor - no matter how much regen u have, u will eventually spam heals block or dodge to stay alive for 5 more seconds.
Or go the heavy armor build, which has no burst heal, and the only way to survive is to play with vitality pots, until the high burst enemy comes for u.

crusnik91 · December 2017

amir412 wrote: »

crusnik91 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I tried to PvP using a StamDK yesterday, and damn it felt awkward. I thought MagDK’s have bad mobility, but sheesh. StamDK mobility is atrocious. Seems like I’ll be sticking to MagDK for PvP, as StamDK is way too clunky.

It really depends on how u build ur dk. To say StamDK mobility is atrocious is just too wrong. I will link u a video to show u how I escape & outrun 20 players

Skip to 9:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dXLMZBSl0I&t=580s

Mate i really appreciate u as a player from knowing u long time, but what u showing is a StamDK using immov speed pots.
So i have to rely on pots to make it work? what about duels, where this stuff is consider as "no honored"?

yea I was just saying with medium armor + speed pots DK are still very much mobile. But if we are talking about dueling yea i gotta admit StamDK isn't the top tier class anymore.

Kronuxx · December 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel
Are any of you guys lurking here? You have an over performing class in PvP (stamina warden) and a very lack luster class stamina dk. You've seen the general consensus (hopefully) here on the forums about the performance about these two classes.You guys have a wealth of information and suggestions here on the forums about how to balance the Stamina DK. Please, don't leave an entire class option neutered. Do something about it. Case in point: at the most recent dueling tournament, did anyone even see a single Stamina DK compete, I can't recall seeing one. And surprise surprise guess what class won the tournament: stamina warden. Yes, yes I know, it was played by Kodi, but let's be honest here, if Kodi played a Stamina DK, do you really think he would have won against Ali? I don't think so. This is not a point I bring up to harp on Kodi, but rather to bring up a point that two very skilled players will get different results because of the large discrepancy between two classes; where one (stamina warden) outperforms the other (Stamina DK). And this is because of the imbalance that @ZOS has introduced in the game. In fact every other class outperforms the Stamina DK in PvP. I will always play my stamina dk because I am most comfortable with him, and I don't jump bandwagons, but ZOS do something about it for crying out loud.

A_G_G_R_O · December 2017

Thogard wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

DU5T__ST0RM wrote: »

I've actually been playing heavy Stam blade with no cloak and it's like my dk but with a spammable attack, strong debuffs and more bar space because of how much buff/debuff you get with SA and incap.

heavy stamblade - snared or no burst heal - easy target.

And Stam DK has a burst heal?

at least dragon blood, stamblade in heavy is like nice only cause unusual idea but it have no needed otions to be viable and competitive

What game are you playing?

Stamblades in heavy are really strong this patch. Defile is strong and stamblades have defile built in their incap.

Have to agree , @CyrusArya runs a nasty heavy armor NB, highly doubt you will be finding heavy NB s as “easy” prey.

Anethum · December 2017

amir412 wrote: »

Mate i really appreciate u as a player from knowing u long time, but what u showing is a StamDK using immov speed pots.
So i have to rely on pots to make it work? what about duels, where this stuff is consider as "no honored"?

.[/quote]

What the problem with immovable pots in duels?
Immovable pots are not broken, immunity is only for 15 seconds, u need to manage when to use it in your rotation in current fight, its not all time immunity and it can be used by anyone.
No honoured are cost poisons, overpowered unavoidable things like proc-sets before nerf, exploiting things on sets and skills which work not as intended or extremly overpowered cause of gamedesigner's mistakes. Immovable pots... Can't aggree with this.
Stamwarden and templar's mobility and efficiency are much better.

Anethum · December 2017

diplomatt wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Mate i really appreciate u as a player from knowing u long time, but what u showing is a StamDK using immov speed pots.
So i have to rely on pots to make it work? what about duels, where this stuff is consider as "no honored"?

.

What the problem with immovable pots in duels?
Immovable pots are not broken, immunity is only for 15 seconds, u need to manage when to use it in your rotation in current fight, its not all time immunity and it can be used by anyone.
No honoured are cost poisons, overpowered unavoidable things like proc-sets before nerf, exploiting things on sets and skills which work not as intended or extremly overpowered cause of gamedesigner's mistakes. Immovable pots... Can't aggree with this.
Stamwarden and templar's mobility and efficiency with or without them are much better that stamdk's.
[/quote]

thedude33 · December 2017

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

thankyourat · December 2017

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

BohnT · December 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

ak_pvp · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Except openworld solo, where StamDK is better than Stamsorc, Magden, Magplar and MagDK by a fair amount, so "absolute worst class." isn't quite true.

Extinct_Solo_Player · December 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Except openworld solo, where StamDK is better than Stamsorc, Magden, Magplar and MagDK by a fair amount, so "absolute worst class." isn't quite true.

explain to me how it is because thats clearly not the case lol

thankyourat · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Stam dk isn't that bad. Is it completely outclassed by stam warden yes? But it's not a bad class overall. I don't think there is an absolute worse class. The dk build i been playing is working pretty well and it's medium armor. 5 piece impreg, 5 senches, 2 blood spawn, or skoria depending on if i run double dot poisons. I been having fun playing it i usually play magblade. It doesn't fell weak at. As long as I'm playing proactively and dodging or blocking hard hitting combos. The only bad thing is i play sword and board so i have to run expedition pots.

I think alot of people just want stam dk to be equal to warden which isn't the way to go. Stam warden is kind of broken it's needs to be nerfed. Also the reverb leap combo is devistating. Especially with dots ticking on your opponent. my leap tooltip is almost 22k

BohnT · December 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Stam dk isn't that bad. Is it completely outclassed by stam warden yes? But it's not a bad class overall. I don't think there is an absolute worse class. The dk build i been playing is working pretty well and it's medium armor. 5 piece impreg, 5 senches, 2 blood spawn, or skoria depending on if i run double dot poisons. I been having fun playing it i usually play magblade. It doesn't fell weak at. As long as I'm playing proactively and dodging or blocking hard hitting combos. The only bad thing is i play sword and board so i have to run expedition pots.

I think alot of people just want stam dk to be equal to warden which isn't the way to go. Stam warden is kind of broken it's needs to be nerfed. Also the reverb leap combo is devistating. Especially with dots ticking on your opponent. my leap tooltip is almost 22k

Can you do fine with stamdk? Of course you can easily kill 7-10 pve heroes with a proper build but that can be done on every other class aswell but what you can't do on a stamdk is killing good people.
No matter how good you are at a certain skill level players don't die to a stamdk anymore or not fast enough for open world. Either you burst your enemies or they zerg you and here comes the next problem of stamdk he can't avoid being zerged down. Running away is no choice with gapclosers, snares on every ability etc.

Why would you play stamdk when you can play stamnb and have better survivability as you can disengage on will while having much better burst.
Stamsorc has better mobility so he has a theoretical chance of getting away from the zerg.
Stamplar has better burst and access to purge
Stamwarden no discussion here.

As Zos wants DK to be the Stand your ground class adding mobility to their toolkit won't happen so you have to increase its burst and that can be done best with a class spammable

ak_pvp · January 2018

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Except openworld solo, where StamDK is better than Stamsorc, Magden, Magplar and MagDK by a fair amount, so "absolute worst class." isn't quite true.

explain to me how it is because thats clearly not the case lol

I retract magden, they are about the same.

Better sets, 7th and ww hide blow everything mag has out of the water, allowing better tankiness whilst maintaining some damage. Mobility, FM > Mist any day, and speed/stam/immo pots, which mag has no alternative. Better sustain than magplar/DK, since they have to use stam weapon so can't heavy attack, and the synergy between ultgen builds is much better with battle roar. StamDK has an execute over MDK, and even maglars execute is fishy to use in a 1vX situation since its a channel.

StamDK has the better use of ult/burst over a stamsorc, which often just goes for a dot build. Again a little better regen, due to synergy with wwhide/asylums, dark deal 1vx can be risky. Worse mobility, but better tankiness.

Arguments can be made for stamsorc being better, but since the hurricane nerf, their damage is a bit lackluster. The disengagement tool is quite useful, but running away is a little eh. And they can'r really do the whole run away, then back and deal huge burst like a warden/NB or run away and damage from afar like a mag sorc.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

crusnik91 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

crusnik91 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I tried to PvP using a StamDK yesterday, and damn it felt awkward. I thought MagDK’s have bad mobility, but sheesh. StamDK mobility is atrocious. Seems like I’ll be sticking to MagDK for PvP, as StamDK is way too clunky.

It really depends on how u build ur dk. To say StamDK mobility is atrocious is just too wrong. I will link u a video to show u how I escape & outrun 20 players

Skip to 9:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dXLMZBSl0I&t=580s

Mate i really appreciate u as a player from knowing u long time, but what u showing is a StamDK using immov speed pots.
So i have to rely on pots to make it work? what about duels, where this stuff is consider as "no honored"?

yea I was just saying with medium armor + speed pots DK are still very much mobile. But if we are talking about dueling yea i gotta admit StamDK isn't the top tier class anymore.

Its true that medium armor Dk is mobile with speed pots, but still, what isnt mobile in medium with speed pots?
I don't even need speed pots on my warden now, I actually don't even run a gapcloser, Its how good my mobility is now with warden.

PS: yes ı know wardens are a bit of extreme and not really a good example to compare any class to.
Still, medium just doesnt work on Dk. the moment you start to run solo, It becomes crystal clear how weak you are compared to the real medium builds. Especially without SnB.