Stam DK is Dead!

Extinct_Solo_Player

ak_pvp wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

It's like some of you have never played these types of games before.

Class strength, from best to worst:

a-b-c-d-e-f

6 months later class balancing happens:

c-e-d-f-b-a

6 months later

f-d-b-a-c-e

rinse repeat. Everybody gets their turn

The classes aren't really that far apart right now either. every class is pretty good right now

Not at all.
In PvE magplar, magwarden and magdk are behind the rest. Stamdk *** on everyone in terms of single target. Magsorc rocks AoE fights like there's no tomorrow.

In pvp stamwarden, stamnb and magsorc dominate the rest of the classes.
The balance between stamplar, stamsorc, magblade, magwarden (with shimmering shield) magplar and magdk is great. Stamdk however falls behind the rest as the absolute worst class in every aspect

Except openworld solo, where StamDK is better than Stamsorc, Magden, Magplar and MagDK by a fair amount, so "absolute worst class." isn't quite true.

explain to me how it is because thats clearly not the case lol

I retract magden, they are about the same.

Better sets, 7th and ww hide blow everything mag has out of the water, allowing better tankiness whilst maintaining some damage. Mobility, FM > Mist any day, and speed/stam/immo pots, which mag has no alternative. Better sustain than magplar/DK, since they have to use stam weapon so can't heavy attack, and the synergy between ultgen builds is much better with battle roar. StamDK has an execute over MDK, and even maglars execute is fishy to use in a 1vX situation since its a channel.

StamDK has the better use of ult/burst over a stamsorc, which often just goes for a dot build. Again a little better regen, due to synergy with wwhide/asylums, dark deal 1vx can be risky. Worse mobility, but better tankiness.

Arguments can be made for stamsorc being better, but since the hurricane nerf, their damage is a bit lackluster. The disengagement tool is quite useful, but running away is a little eh. And they can'r really do the whole run away, then back and deal huge burst like a warden/NB or run away and damage from afar like a mag sorc.

IMO mag has very competitive choices, i would take stam version of desert rose any day vs ww hide. The burst from monster sets such as skoria have insane damage and even act like an execute as it deals so much damage. seventh being the only optimal choice for most stam dks clearly shows theres something wrong when you're pigeonholed into a specific type of playstyle/build because the class cannot do anything else now. Magplar has way better burst potential with skills such as purifying light which copies damage done and is unblockable and undodgable .Stam sorc has much much better tools than a stam dk like streak, dark deal, crit surge and even auto execute passive. As a stam dk you cannot recover from burst because the only thing it has is igneous+vigor and no burst heal as you have to go forward now to remove snares. On magicka dk i can last way longer than stam dk and i can even go offensive to be defensive with kill potential which is the trademark of "hold your ground dk" but on stam dk its very hard as you're forced to block and unable to go offensive especially when there's classes like stam nb on you that can melt you the second you try to go offensive. On mag dk,magplar etc theres tons of build diversity where as on classes like stam dk there is literally little to none diversity.... You can just look at the classes on open-world pvp and count how many stam dks you see vs mag dks magplar stam sorcs etc.

Ocelot9x

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

WillhelmBlack

Remember when they could proc two sets on you whilst having infinite sustain though?

#zosbalance xD

Seriously though, they're only in the same boat as every other stamina class apart from obviously Warden. Worst out the 4? Yeah probably, the problem I see with them is a lack of damage, not sustain or healing issues. There are the few that still do OK with Stam DK using the usual 5-7 heavy, Werewolf Hide/Fury/Bloodspawn gear. They're the ones complaining they don't have Shalks. Then I see the exceptional ones that are using absolutely every good thing going for all Stam classes, bleeds and DoT's.

It's hard to pull away from the meta build for this class, decent damage, decent sustain, decent healing. Some times decent isn't enough. Sacrificing a little bit of sustain and healing sometimes gets you a lot more damage and makes your build just like everyone else's, specific. It's gonna lack in some aspects but shine elsewhere.

I'm not trying to say there's nothing wrong with stam DK's, at all. Buffs are OK, Passives are somewhat balanced now but they lack good morphs, they only have 3, including the ultimate. They should give them a physical whip that has a proc like Flame Lash. Standard of Might is another candidate for a physical morph.

I know I'm gonna rustle some feathers here but I don't see a lot of long term Stam DK's theorycrafting or adapting after Morrowind. Only jumping ship to Warden.

thankyourat

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

Thogard

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

I think mist form is more of a mag version of dodge roll than forward momentum.

Rex-Umbra

Stam DK was too easy to play one tamriel update. Dot build duel wield and bow and i still wreak all but good templars.

Ocelot9x

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Anethum

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

only:D

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Dot build duel wield and bow and i still wreak all but good templars.

templars with dot build:) nice imagination, ty.

Ocelot9x

diplomatt wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

only:D

Desert rose,templar rune,netch,constitution and things like that still work if i remember correctly. A fair price for being highly mobile and that level of mitigation.

thankyourat

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Ocelot9x

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

thankyourat

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

But what are you accomplishing by stalling out all those players. It's basically staying alive to just be staying alive. If you see a magplar or mag dk misting around rocks just leave them alone. It's plenty of other players to fight. I agree mist form is too strong of a turtling technique but that's all it is. Idk is just too passive for me to use

ak_pvp

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

Longer, more effects, can heal (and use ANY abilities) in it, can use normal recovery, doesn't bug out and snare, can sprint, and can use stam pots with expedition. Mist is a slow suicide button. Sure, you lose a burst heal, and that sucks, but FM hot, 7th and vigor is damn useful.

On exinct solo players comment:

Valkyn is great (arguably OP) against a single target, and decent against few opponents, but then when you vs more, its unpredictable, and the 4k every 6/7s in practice is eh. Then something like bloodspawn kicks in, which stam has slightly better use of.

Desert rose is a little weird of a set, and since I play my MDK light, not really used since its run with heavy. Its great regen, no doubt, but if I try a heavy armour DK its a blocky build so slow, and low damage, that I'd prefer something like WW hide where I can get more leaps since its one of the only ways to kill on a heavy DK in general, unless the opponent is completely squishy.

None of this is to say that stamDK is the better, or even a good class. I would 100% say its lost all identity of a sustainy beserker with high damage to a warden, which as higher, more often damage, group utility, better sustain and better healing. Igneous is rather lack luster of a boost to vigor/FM since its so short, and obviously rally is used for FM. The pigeonholing sucks, but its the meta build and it is strong. And I see a whole lot more stamDKs than stamsorcs/MDKs. Magplars are almost necessary for groups, so I see a lot of them, but for solo, stamDK is more common.

Its pointing out the facts that 1vX is a hugely mobility+burst based playstyle and magDK/Magplar can't compete. Stamsorc is very good class feel wise, (fast af boi) but doesn't have the same set synergy with the more ult based meta, where its run around trees for a bit and burst people with ult. Though does really well as a dot build.

As said 100x, stamDK needs some serious class based buffs, even just giving leap the snare removal would fix the whole issue with dependence on block, and regain the burst heal. And a class based snare removal makes sense on wings/DK since its as if its breaking free. Then things like igneous need to be helped for stam etc.

Ocelot9x

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

Longer, more effects, can heal (and use ANY abilities) in it, can use normal recovery, doesn't bug out and snare, can sprint, and can use stam pots with expedition. Mist is a slow suicide button. Sure, you lose a burst heal, and that sucks, but FM hot, 7th and vigor is damn useful.

On exinct solo players comment:

Valkyn is great (arguably OP) against a single target, and decent against few opponents, but then when you vs more, its unpredictable, and the 4k every 6/7s in practice is eh. Then something like bloodspawn kicks in, which stam has slightly better use of.

Desert rose is a little weird of a set, and since I play my MDK light, not really used since its run with heavy. Its great regen, no doubt, but if I try a heavy armour DK its a blocky build so slow, and low damage, that I'd prefer something like WW hide where I can get more leaps since its one of the only ways to kill on a heavy DK in general, unless the opponent is completely squishy.

None of this is to say that stamDK is the better, or even a good class. I would 100% say its lost all identity of a sustainy beserker with high damage to a warden, which as higher, more often damage, group utility, better sustain and better healing. Igneous is rather lack luster of a boost to vigor/FM since its so short, and obviously rally is used for FM. The pigeonholing sucks, but its the meta build and it is strong. And I see a whole lot more stamDKs than stamsorcs/MDKs. Magplars are almost necessary for groups, so I see a lot of them, but for solo, stamDK is more common.

Its pointing out the facts that 1vX is a hugely mobility+burst based playstyle and magDK/Magplar can't compete. Stamsorc is very good class feel wise, (fast af boi) but doesn't have the same set synergy with the more ult based meta, where its run around trees for a bit and burst people with ult. Though does really well as a dot build.

As said 100x, stamDK needs some serious class based buffs, even just giving leap the snare removal would fix the whole issue with dependence on block, and regain the burst heal. And a class based snare removal makes sense on wings/DK since its as if its breaking free. Then things like igneous need to be helped for stam etc.

More effects? A crappy heal. You cast FM then a nb does a SA attack on you,you get 800 heal you lose 4000 HP= -3200hp
You cast mist then two nb do 2 SA on you lose 1000 HP.
Mitigation>healing
Also if you sprint after FM you'll lose stam recovery too.
And why being forced to run expedition pot would be a plus? If I get expedition from another source I can run more useful pots,like immovable.
If you consider mist a slow suicide button then you should reconsider your gameplay.
If you spam mist form you ll die or run out of magicka (but still even a cp 350 can survive for 5 cast of it instead of being oneshotted) but with a wise use is hands down the best surviving system when combined with block (way better than shields or dodging) and with less efforts).
Also skoria is OP like you said,check DDduke(?) video here,melting people with dots+a skoria proce while 1vxing.
And magicka as llich and bloodthorn as a back bar sets that gives you all recovery you need (way more than what 1 ult per sec gives you) allowing you to build more damage and having stronger leaps.

ak_pvp

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

Longer, more effects, can heal (and use ANY abilities) in it, can use normal recovery, doesn't bug out and snare, can sprint, and can use stam pots with expedition. Mist is a slow suicide button. Sure, you lose a burst heal, and that sucks, but FM hot, 7th and vigor is damn useful.

On exinct solo players comment:

Valkyn is great (arguably OP) against a single target, and decent against few opponents, but then when you vs more, its unpredictable, and the 4k every 6/7s in practice is eh. Then something like bloodspawn kicks in, which stam has slightly better use of.

Desert rose is a little weird of a set, and since I play my MDK light, not really used since its run with heavy. Its great regen, no doubt, but if I try a heavy armour DK its a blocky build so slow, and low damage, that I'd prefer something like WW hide where I can get more leaps since its one of the only ways to kill on a heavy DK in general, unless the opponent is completely squishy.

None of this is to say that stamDK is the better, or even a good class. I would 100% say its lost all identity of a sustainy beserker with high damage to a warden, which as higher, more often damage, group utility, better sustain and better healing. Igneous is rather lack luster of a boost to vigor/FM since its so short, and obviously rally is used for FM. The pigeonholing sucks, but its the meta build and it is strong. And I see a whole lot more stamDKs than stamsorcs/MDKs. Magplars are almost necessary for groups, so I see a lot of them, but for solo, stamDK is more common.

Its pointing out the facts that 1vX is a hugely mobility+burst based playstyle and magDK/Magplar can't compete. Stamsorc is very good class feel wise, (fast af boi) but doesn't have the same set synergy with the more ult based meta, where its run around trees for a bit and burst people with ult. Though does really well as a dot build.

As said 100x, stamDK needs some serious class based buffs, even just giving leap the snare removal would fix the whole issue with dependence on block, and regain the burst heal. And a class based snare removal makes sense on wings/DK since its as if its breaking free. Then things like igneous need to be helped for stam etc.

More effects? A crappy heal. You cast FM then a nb does a SA attack on you,you get 800 heal you lose 4000 HP= -3200hp
You cast mist then two nb do 2 SA on you lose 1000 HP.
Mitigation>healing
Also if you sprint after FM you'll lose stam recovery too.
And why being forced to run expedition pot would be a plus? If I get expedition from another source I can run more useful pots,like immovable.
If you consider mist a slow suicide button then you should reconsider your gameplay.
If you spam mist form you ll die or run out of magicka (but still even a cp 350 can survive for 5 cast of it instead of being oneshotted) but with a wise use is hands down the best surviving system when combined with block (way better than shields or dodging) and with less efforts).
Also skoria is OP like you said,check DDduke(?) video here,melting people with dots+a skoria proce while 1vxing.
And magicka as llich and bloodthorn as a back bar sets that gives you all recovery you need (way more than what 1 ult per sec gives you) allowing you to build more damage and having stronger leaps.

Again: Mist cripples you. Why do you think so many people don't run it. Why do mag builds run 2h for FM? It is a slow suicide button because you will be gapclosed like mad, destroys your mag, debuffed etc, and can't really escape with it. Even "intelligent" use of it is tragic and a waste of mag, its not like the older days where desertrose could feed you enough mag for a full follow up and constitution allowed easier permablocking.

EDIT: Forgot to finish post lel.

Momentum is sort of like the stamina entropy, small hot, major buff, though the other effect is snare reduction, as opposed to a weak dot (extra skoria I suppose) and some weird 1 bar extra health (1.6% extra healing on dragonblood I suppose, but definitely less with other multipliers but eh.) or mini heal proc.

As you said, mitigation > healing, so no damage>healing too? Thats why people dislike mist because it makes you a little tankier, but you most likely can't kill someone within that time. So they will heal up, and damage you. You can't sprint/dodge and its harder to get to LOS with the mist snare issues. Not to mention its over in 4s, and gives a little spot for CCing in between. Its so underwhelming and the only real use I can get with it now is on a heavy build with enough passive mit for the 75% to get best effects, a really bulky bloodspawn/DR/heavy build which really only kills multiple people if they are pure trash.

Immo, speed, stam pots. One of the most ran pots for stamina classes, and without a mag counterpart, no speed mag pots at all.

Skoria is good, no denying at all, but when leap is almost necessary for the big finisher on many targets, bloodspawn shines, also more ult = more sustain.

Ocelot9x

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

Longer, more effects, can heal (and use ANY abilities) in it, can use normal recovery, doesn't bug out and snare, can sprint, and can use stam pots with expedition. Mist is a slow suicide button. Sure, you lose a burst heal, and that sucks, but FM hot, 7th and vigor is damn useful.

On exinct solo players comment:

Valkyn is great (arguably OP) against a single target, and decent against few opponents, but then when you vs more, its unpredictable, and the 4k every 6/7s in practice is eh. Then something like bloodspawn kicks in, which stam has slightly better use of.

Desert rose is a little weird of a set, and since I play my MDK light, not really used since its run with heavy. Its great regen, no doubt, but if I try a heavy armour DK its a blocky build so slow, and low damage, that I'd prefer something like WW hide where I can get more leaps since its one of the only ways to kill on a heavy DK in general, unless the opponent is completely squishy.

None of this is to say that stamDK is the better, or even a good class. I would 100% say its lost all identity of a sustainy beserker with high damage to a warden, which as higher, more often damage, group utility, better sustain and better healing. Igneous is rather lack luster of a boost to vigor/FM since its so short, and obviously rally is used for FM. The pigeonholing sucks, but its the meta build and it is strong. And I see a whole lot more stamDKs than stamsorcs/MDKs. Magplars are almost necessary for groups, so I see a lot of them, but for solo, stamDK is more common.

Its pointing out the facts that 1vX is a hugely mobility+burst based playstyle and magDK/Magplar can't compete. Stamsorc is very good class feel wise, (fast af boi) but doesn't have the same set synergy with the more ult based meta, where its run around trees for a bit and burst people with ult. Though does really well as a dot build.

As said 100x, stamDK needs some serious class based buffs, even just giving leap the snare removal would fix the whole issue with dependence on block, and regain the burst heal. And a class based snare removal makes sense on wings/DK since its as if its breaking free. Then things like igneous need to be helped for stam etc.

More effects? A crappy heal. You cast FM then a nb does a SA attack on you,you get 800 heal you lose 4000 HP= -3200hp
You cast mist then two nb do 2 SA on you lose 1000 HP.
Mitigation>healing
Also if you sprint after FM you'll lose stam recovery too.
And why being forced to run expedition pot would be a plus? If I get expedition from another source I can run more useful pots,like immovable.
If you consider mist a slow suicide button then you should reconsider your gameplay.
If you spam mist form you ll die or run out of magicka (but still even a cp 350 can survive for 5 cast of it instead of being oneshotted) but with a wise use is hands down the best surviving system when combined with block (way better than shields or dodging) and with less efforts).
Also skoria is OP like you said,check DDduke(?) video here,melting people with dots+a skoria proce while 1vxing.
And magicka as llich and bloodthorn as a back bar sets that gives you all recovery you need (way more than what 1 ult per sec gives you) allowing you to build more damage and having stronger leaps.

Again: Mist cripples you. Why do you think so many people don't run it. Why do mag builds run 2h for FM? It is a slow suicide button because you will be gapclosed like mad, destroys your mag, debuffed etc, and can't really escape with it. Even "intelligent" use of it is tragic and a waste of mag, its not like the older days where desertrose could feed you enough mag for a full follow up and constitution allowed easier permablocking.

EDIT: Forgot to finish post lel.

Momentum is sort of like the stamina entropy, small hot, major buff, though the other effect is snare reduction, as opposed to a weak dot (extra skoria I suppose) and some weird 1 bar extra health (1.6% extra healing on dragonblood I suppose, but definitely less with other multipliers but eh.) or mini heal proc.

As you said, mitigation > healing, so no damage>healing too? Thats why people dislike mist because it makes you a little tankier, but you most likely can't kill someone within that time. So they will heal up, and damage you. You can't sprint/dodge and its harder to get to LOS with the mist snare issues. Not to mention its over in 4s, and gives a little spot for CCing in between. Its so underwhelming and the only real use I can get with it now is on a heavy build with enough passive mit for the 75% to get best effects, a really bulky bloodspawn/DR/heavy build which really only kills multiple people if they are pure trash.

Immo, speed, stam pots. One of the most ran pots for stamina classes, and without a mag counterpart, no speed mag pots at all.

Skoria is good, no denying at all, but when leap is almost necessary for the big finisher on many targets, bloodspawn shines, also more ult = more sustain.

I have more than 80 days of PvP with my stam dk(played at least15 as a mag dk),10ish with my mag templar and stam sorc,15ish on my stamplar and around 20 on my stamwarden and I think I've seen(and melted ) no more than 10 mag people with forward momentum,while I see almost every top magicka dk/templar using mist form. Are they stupid to kill themselves or they just know how to properly use the skill?

Xvorg

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

Actually you can dodgeroll after mist effect ends, giving you a small indow where you can cast a burst heal. Sadly it only works on templars

Xvorg

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I dont get how can people write things like FM>mist form.
FM=a crappy hot (700 average),removes snares. To use that you lose your only burst heal. Wow,op skill.
Mist form=Expedition,removes snares,and you basically get no incoming damage. The only price to pay is losing your recovery.

With fm you can cast other abilities. with mist form you can't do anything while in mist form. I've used 2hand weapons on magicka builds because mist form is so bad. It's just too passive

1v1 may be true but when you have 6 people hammering on you mist form will save your life with close to zero efforts.

Also @Thogard is quite right

Lol it would only prolong your death. You are still going to die once you mist form yourself out of magicka or you stall so long that you are even more outnumbered. Mist form is good for group play because it will allow you to get back to your group. I think FM is better than mist form in every way. The one huge downside to FM is you have to give up a burst heal to use it. It's why i play medium armor. I can't stand being snared

Please define "every way".
With mist form ,shield ult and LoS a mag templar/dk can stall a group of 7+ people indefinitely. FM is better in 1v1 situation (and still a bad choice cause no rally) but mist form destroy it in every other way.

Longer, more effects, can heal (and use ANY abilities) in it, can use normal recovery, doesn't bug out and snare, can sprint, and can use stam pots with expedition. Mist is a slow suicide button. Sure, you lose a burst heal, and that sucks, but FM hot, 7th and vigor is damn useful.

On exinct solo players comment:

Valkyn is great (arguably OP) against a single target, and decent against few opponents, but then when you vs more, its unpredictable, and the 4k every 6/7s in practice is eh. Then something like bloodspawn kicks in, which stam has slightly better use of.

Desert rose is a little weird of a set, and since I play my MDK light, not really used since its run with heavy. Its great regen, no doubt, but if I try a heavy armour DK its a blocky build so slow, and low damage, that I'd prefer something like WW hide where I can get more leaps since its one of the only ways to kill on a heavy DK in general, unless the opponent is completely squishy.

None of this is to say that stamDK is the better, or even a good class. I would 100% say its lost all identity of a sustainy beserker with high damage to a warden, which as higher, more often damage, group utility, better sustain and better healing. Igneous is rather lack luster of a boost to vigor/FM since its so short, and obviously rally is used for FM. The pigeonholing sucks, but its the meta build and it is strong. And I see a whole lot more stamDKs than stamsorcs/MDKs. Magplars are almost necessary for groups, so I see a lot of them, but for solo, stamDK is more common.

Its pointing out the facts that 1vX is a hugely mobility+burst based playstyle and magDK/Magplar can't compete. Stamsorc is very good class feel wise, (fast af boi) but doesn't have the same set synergy with the more ult based meta, where its run around trees for a bit and burst people with ult. Though does really well as a dot build.

As said 100x, stamDK needs some serious class based buffs, even just giving leap the snare removal would fix the whole issue with dependence on block, and regain the burst heal. And a class based snare removal makes sense on wings/DK since its as if its breaking free. Then things like igneous need to be helped for stam etc.

More effects? A crappy heal. You cast FM then a nb does a SA attack on you,you get 800 heal you lose 4000 HP= -3200hp
You cast mist then two nb do 2 SA on you lose 1000 HP.
Mitigation>healing
Also if you sprint after FM you'll lose stam recovery too.
And why being forced to run expedition pot would be a plus? If I get expedition from another source I can run more useful pots,like immovable.
If you consider mist a slow suicide button then you should reconsider your gameplay.
If you spam mist form you ll die or run out of magicka (but still even a cp 350 can survive for 5 cast of it instead of being oneshotted) but with a wise use is hands down the best surviving system when combined with block (way better than shields or dodging) and with less efforts).
Also skoria is OP like you said,check DDduke(?) video here,melting people with dots+a skoria proce while 1vxing.
And magicka as llich and bloodthorn as a back bar sets that gives you all recovery you need (way more than what 1 ult per sec gives you) allowing you to build more damage and having stronger leaps.

Again: Mist cripples you. Why do you think so many people don't run it. Why do mag builds run 2h for FM? It is a slow suicide button because you will be gapclosed like mad, destroys your mag, debuffed etc, and can't really escape with it. Even "intelligent" use of it is tragic and a waste of mag, its not like the older days where desertrose could feed you enough mag for a full follow up and constitution allowed easier permablocking.

EDIT: Forgot to finish post lel.

Momentum is sort of like the stamina entropy, small hot, major buff, though the other effect is snare reduction, as opposed to a weak dot (extra skoria I suppose) and some weird 1 bar extra health (1.6% extra healing on dragonblood I suppose, but definitely less with other multipliers but eh.) or mini heal proc.

As you said, mitigation > healing, so no damage>healing too? Thats why people dislike mist because it makes you a little tankier, but you most likely can't kill someone within that time. So they will heal up, and damage you. You can't sprint/dodge and its harder to get to LOS with the mist snare issues. Not to mention its over in 4s, and gives a little spot for CCing in between. Its so underwhelming and the only real use I can get with it now is on a heavy build with enough passive mit for the 75% to get best effects, a really bulky bloodspawn/DR/heavy build which really only kills multiple people if they are pure trash.

Immo, speed, stam pots. One of the most ran pots for stamina classes, and without a mag counterpart, no speed mag pots at all.

Skoria is good, no denying at all, but when leap is almost necessary for the big finisher on many targets, bloodspawn shines, also more ult = more sustain.

Does 7th legion proc on mist form? I tend to think the weapon dmg should increase.

The heal doesn't.

Koensol

I started leveling a DK for *** and giggles, and even at lvl 27, I can feel that it is so limited. You basically deal damage with dots and weapon skills... that is basically how far the utility goes on a stamdk. Only thing I have seen them excell at lately is tanking zerglings with sets like fury and then 1 shot leaping them. So much for interesting gameplay.

Durham

Last summer the stam DK received 9 meta nerfs .. I started multiple posts on these changes on the test server... I listed all these changes and that the DK had been effectively gutted with symmetry with stam... Since this summer more nerfs have occured... I still plan on playing my stam DK... I came back to the game and found my class just gutted.. Magicka DKs will destroy me .. I can only kill people that are much weaker then me .. I consider myself slightly above average so i still kill people but I'm embarrassed sometimes lol... With poisions and resource nerfs I'm a walking metal shell....

Durham

Koensol wrote: »

I started leveling a DK for *** and giggles, and even at lvl 27, I can feel that it is so limited. You basically deal damage with dots and weapon skills... that is basically how far the utility goes on a stamdk. Only thing I have seen them excell at lately is tanking zerglings with sets like fury and then 1 shot leaping them. So much for interesting gameplay.

Your leap will only 1SHOT kill people that have no food ... No crit resist ... and also have no health. BY THE WAY YOU HAVE TO CRIT AND most build run lower crit..... ACTUALLY Dawn Breaker will do the same ...

Thunderknuckles

Well crap. And here I was all excited about taking my stam DK DD into Cyro. I guess....screw that?

Ragnarock41

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Well crap. And here I was all excited about taking my stam DK DD into Cyro. I guess....screw that?

You should have played it back in 1 tamriel.
Too little too late for sDk.


Actually, you know what, go give it a shot. you should see it for yourself instead of me spoonfeeding you my opinions.
IF you have a sDk ready to play, please go give it a shot, play it for a day and tell us how it went.

Skoomah

Everyone bring their Stam DK into cyrodiil! I need to farm some!

Koensol

Durham wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I started leveling a DK for *** and giggles, and even at lvl 27, I can feel that it is so limited. You basically deal damage with dots and weapon skills... that is basically how far the utility goes on a stamdk. Only thing I have seen them excell at lately is tanking zerglings with sets like fury and then 1 shot leaping them. So much for interesting gameplay.

Your leap will only 1SHOT kill people that have no food ... No crit resist ... and also have no health. BY THE WAY YOU HAVE TO CRIT AND most build run lower crit..... ACTUALLY Dawn Breaker will do the same ...

I know it doesn't legit 1 shot most players, but it was just to illustrate how little a sDK brings to the table.

Anethum

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Well crap. And here I was all excited about taking my stam DK DD into Cyro. I guess....screw that?

yep, stam dk in cyro not the best idea in today's patch. u will be really dissapointed in compare with any other stamina class

BohnT

diplomatt wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Well crap. And here I was all excited about taking my stam DK DD into Cyro. I guess....screw that?

yep, stam dk in cyro not the best idea in today's patch. u will be really dissapointed in compare with any other class

Fixed it.

Durham

Fixed it meaning what?

Smmokkee

All the noobs rerolling because there class isnt competitive anymore? Lolololololol so funny. Its hilarious watching someone like AceMercs faceroll people on his medium armor stamdk. *** last night he beat a MagNB dueling build on his open world stam dk and its not like the mag nb was incompetent either.

Ragnarock41

Smmokkee wrote: »

All the noobs rerolling because there class isnt competitive anymore? Lolololololol so funny. Its hilarious watching someone like AceMercs faceroll people on his medium armor stamdk. *** last night he beat a MagNB dueling build on his open world stam dk and its not like the mag nb was incompetent either.

First time I hear that name tbh.
And you are the only hilarious thing in this thread.