Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
The Current Destro Pain Train Meta Needs To Die
-
Texas✭✭✭Someone may need thicker skin if they think someone saying the pain trains look like bots is an awful insult that demands this much QQ. I pray that this person is never actually in TS with me as I jokingly say far worse.
Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Someone may need thicker skin if they think someone saying the pain trains look like bots is an awful insult that demands this much QQ. I pray that this person is never actually in TS with me as I jokingly say far worse.
You permanently scarred me, Tex.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Mickydanz✭✭✭I am new to the organised group side of PVP so here is my 2 cents. I find the main problem to be lack of map competition, the only real focus for the campaign these days is to get emperor. Which causes 90% of all battles to happen at the inner keeps/outposts. This is when organised groups who are over fighting the zergs split off and go pvdoor a back keep because they are over the mindless endless field fight of (8-16) vs 30+, this is not only pugs it includes at least one organised group. I am not saying that the 30+ faction's organised group wants to faction stack its more the pugs know they will get AP if they hover around.
The Map feels very stale - we need more objectives - changes in rewards - incentives - A more active community - Would love some sort of leader board - game needs competitiveness for the hardcore players to stay aroundCropsford Mayor0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Snares that can't be removed would have the potential to ruin all kinds of fights, not just those involving large ball groups. No thank you. Though, it is very Wrobel-like, so now I'm scared.Snares that can't be removed would have the potential to ruin all kinds of fights, not just those involving large ball groups. No thank you. Though, it is very Wrobel-like, so now I'm scared.
A negative effect that actually does something instead of being rendered irrelevant by instant removal. The horror.
Another combat function that can't be countered would be horrible, yes. We would see such siege deployed everywhere. I can envision them ruining a lot of good fights that don't involve ball groups.
Are you aware that's how Oil Catapult actually worked at one point?
It applied a 70% unmovable snare on the targets it hit.
Know what happened?
People stopped zerg balling
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If I recall correctly, that was a bug and, IMO, ball groups were more relevant then than they are now. Regardless if that is true, it doesn't change the fact that a 70% snare that can't be countered would impact fights of all types, not just those involving blobs.Snares that can't be removed would have the potential to ruin all kinds of fights, not just those involving large ball groups. No thank you. Though, it is very Wrobel-like, so now I'm scared.Snares that can't be removed would have the potential to ruin all kinds of fights, not just those involving large ball groups. No thank you. Though, it is very Wrobel-like, so now I'm scared.
A negative effect that actually does something instead of being rendered irrelevant by instant removal. The horror.
Another combat function that can't be countered would be horrible, yes. We would see such siege deployed everywhere. I can envision them ruining a lot of good fights that don't involve ball groups.
Are you aware that's how Oil Catapult actually worked at one point?
It applied a 70% unmovable snare on the targets it hit.
Know what happened?
People stopped zerg balling
Most players I know want to be snared less often, not more often. To me, this is a solution that throws the baby out with the bathwater.1 -
Texas✭✭✭People stopped zerg balling
Sure they did. I mean everyday in Cyrodiil prior to the oil catapult change was solo's spread out across the field evenly 8m apart from the next because of the fear of the snare. Once that change happened Cyrodiil took possibly the hardest hit since the dark days of zero cost bats and launch DK's. But what about DAoC? I mean I'm unsure how I should feel since you haven't mentioned DAoC at all lately. @Ghost-Shot who is this even?Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions2 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭8 manning against PUGs in DAoC was easier than playing DK in 1.1. Don't know why DAoC is our gold standard right now.Edited by Vilestride on December 24, 2017 7:49AM4
-
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Addendum:
Yes, I know there are a LOT of other issues that cause PVP to be in the state it is.
Such as:
1. Lag
2. Low quality rewards
3. Lag
4. Players funneled into laggy, zergy corridors (EG: Bleaks, Alessia Bridge, Ash Gate, etc)
5. Lag
6. Load Screens
7. Lag
8. End of campaign rewards being very low quality
9. Lag
10. Did I mention the lag?
11. Lag
Cant believe you left that one out, It's like the main issue people complain about
1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.Edited by Joy_Division on December 24, 2017 3:17PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
That's an incredibly myopic view.
Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it? He has every right to be critical of whatever he wants and his opinion is no more or less valuable than yours in the context of this thread lol. I'm sorry but trying to dismiss a post because of something entirely unrelated to the argument at hand is not a good way to get your point across.
There is no analogy necessary for Joy's thesis posts because it's very clear what he's doing. No one is confused as to what he has said and the context supporting his current opinion.Edited by usmcjdking on December 24, 2017 4:23PM0331
060210 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
I did join ZS afternoon groups in the past weeks on a couple of occasions - i don´t think there were ever more than 12 people though.
Imo 12 people would be the perfect groupsize for cyro - it´s still enjoyable for me with that amount of people (though personally prefer ~8).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Autumnhart✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
That's an incredibly myopic view.
Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it? He has every right to be critical of whatever he wants and his opinion is no more or less valuable than yours in the context of this thread lol. I'm sorry but trying to dismiss a post because of something entirely unrelated to the argument at hand is not a good way to get your point across.
There is no analogy necessary for Joy's thesis posts because it's very clear what he's doing. No one is confused as to what he has said and the context supporting his current opinion.
Joy Division could state that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, and at least one member of Drac would take issue. You're right: no one is confused.Shadow hide you.9 -
Texas✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling THE style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
Which do you want? Joy to find a post during his time in VE where he states that groups in general play like bots? Or are you wanting him to dig up a post where he says he is in VE and that VE plays like bots? Let's not pretend it's his complaints about groups but his all out audacity of calling organized groups BOTS that really hurts the feel goods. I'll let y'all search the archives for his written comments but for what it's worth being in TS with the guy for over 3 years (as well as the other 35 VE members in raid 24/7
) Joy has always been one of the more vocally critical folks in VE TS concerning the game on all aspects (PvE and PvP).
At the end of the day.....LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW. NA Drama Start Up < EU Drama Start Up. I look forward to being rekt by your 16 man at a later time and date!
Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions1 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People stopped zerg balling
Sure they did. I mean everyday in Cyrodiil prior to the oil catapult change was solo's spread out across the field evenly 8m apart from the next because of the fear of the snare. Once that change happened Cyrodiil took possibly the hardest hit since the dark days of zero cost bats and launch DK's. But what about DAoC? I mean I'm unsure how I should feel since you haven't mentioned DAoC at all lately. @Ghost-Shot who is this even?
First I've heard of them.{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
AD :: Imported Waffles [37]EP :: Wee ee ee ee ee [16]DC :: Ghostbane's DK [16], Impending Loadscreen [12]PC - NA
AD :: Ghostbane [50], yer ma [43], Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 2.0 [18], robotic baby legs [18]EP :: Wee Mad Arthur [50], avast ye buttcrackz [49], Sir Horace Foghorn [27], Brother Ballbag [24], Scatman John [16]DC :: W T B Waffles [36], Morale Boost [30], W T F Waffles [17], Ghostbanë [15]RIPAD :: Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 1.0 [20]- AP Meter : All your AP needs
- Greyskull : Customisable, colour-coded Damage Meter
- Auto Research Scrolls : Automatic management of crafting research scrolls
- ITTs Donation Bot : Donation tracker for Guilds
- ITTs Roster Bot : Roster management for Guilds
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Now the question is: Why do we consider kodi 1v4ing people fine but a raid 12v50ing as broken? There hardly is a difference.
Actually there is a huge difference. Knowing that ur skill matters, doing the best u can but still losing to someone because he is simply better and u got outplayed is one thing. Thats totally acceptable. You can get better, put on better gear as well and take him on again. But feeling helpless and not being able to do absolutely anything not because u are not good enough but because of stupid mechanics unless u bring more numbers to use those same stupid mechanics is a very different story.
2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
I did join ZS afternoon groups in the past weeks on a couple of occasions - i don´t think there were ever more than 12 people though.
Imo 12 people would be the perfect groupsize for cyro - it´s still enjoyable for me with that amount of people (though personally prefer ~8).
Then you are a hypocrite
1 -
asneakybanana✭✭✭✭✭
Now the question is: Why do we consider kodi 1v4ing people fine but a raid 12v50ing as broken? There hardly is a difference.
Actually there is a huge difference. Knowing that ur skill matters, doing the best u can but still losing to someone because he is simply better and u got outplayed is one thing. Thats totally acceptable. You can get better, put on better gear as well and take him on again. But feeling helpless and not being able to do absolutely anything not because u are not good enough but because of stupid mechanics unless u bring more numbers to use those same stupid mechanics is a very different story.
I mean what's the difference between getting better, wearing better gear and learning to not get outplayed again vs. one person or vs 12-16? You could get a 12-16 man group together and get coordinated and wear the proper gear setups and you can beat the organized groups and stop getting out played. Instead of just making yourself better it's making your group better though. It's your choice to play solo instead of with an organized group.Asneakybanana AD DK Former emperor of Chrysamere and Chillrend. World first hardmode Hel'ra and Quake con winner (Alliance rank 25)Sweat Squad
Asneakyhabenero EP DK Former emperor of Thornblade, Haderus. World first vMA Dk clear (Alliance rank 39)
Asneakycucumber EP Sorc Former empress of Blackwater Bay and Trueflame (Alliance rank 32)
Asneakypineapple EP Temp Former empress of Azuras Star and Haderus (Alliance rank 22)
Asneakypickle EP NB Former empress of Trueflame (Alliance rank 47)
Crowned 27x on 12 different campaign cycles | 200M+ AP earned
Fastest AA clear ever: 5:42 | Fastest HRC clear ever: 5:27 | NA first HM MoL
609k Mag Sorc vMA
NA first Tick Tock Tormentor
NA first trinity (All No Death/HM/Speed run trials titles)
2x Tick Tock Tormentor4 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭asneakybanana wrote: »
Now the question is: Why do we consider kodi 1v4ing people fine but a raid 12v50ing as broken? There hardly is a difference.
Actually there is a huge difference. Knowing that ur skill matters, doing the best u can but still losing to someone because he is simply better and u got outplayed is one thing. Thats totally acceptable. You can get better, put on better gear as well and take him on again. But feeling helpless and not being able to do absolutely anything not because u are not good enough but because of stupid mechanics unless u bring more numbers to use those same stupid mechanics is a very different story.
I mean what's the difference between getting better, wearing better gear and learning to not get outplayed again vs. one person or vs 12-16? You could get a 12-16 man group together and get coordinated and wear the proper gear setups and you can beat the organized groups and stop getting out played. Instead of just making yourself better it's making your group better though. It's your choice to play solo instead of with an organized group.
LMAO! @A_G_G_R_O0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
That's an incredibly myopic view.
Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it? He has every right to be critical of whatever he wants and his opinion is no more or less valuable than yours in the context of this thread lol. I'm sorry but trying to dismiss a post because of something entirely unrelated to the argument at hand is not a good way to get your point across.
There is no analogy necessary for Joy's thesis posts because it's very clear what he's doing. No one is confused as to what he has said and the context supporting his current opinion.
You have completely failed to grasp the clear point which was made in the post:
I'll try and make it easy for you:Since you no longer have one (Joy's old '24m' group) you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on December 24, 2017 10:50PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭asneakybanana wrote: »
Now the question is: Why do we consider kodi 1v4ing people fine but a raid 12v50ing as broken? There hardly is a difference.
Actually there is a huge difference. Knowing that ur skill matters, doing the best u can but still losing to someone because he is simply better and u got outplayed is one thing. Thats totally acceptable. You can get better, put on better gear as well and take him on again. But feeling helpless and not being able to do absolutely anything not because u are not good enough but because of stupid mechanics unless u bring more numbers to use those same stupid mechanics is a very different story.
I mean what's the difference between getting better, wearing better gear and learning to not get outplayed again vs. one person or vs 12-16? You could get a 12-16 man group together and get coordinated and wear the proper gear setups and you can beat the organized groups and stop getting out played. Instead of just making yourself better it's making your group better though. It's your choice to play solo instead of with an organized group.
You are not getting outplayed by those groups. That is literally the point. Im sorry but spamming one button isnt exactly what i would call "outplay" people.
You are not making urself or ur group better. You are just making ur group bigger and abuse the same stupid mechanics they do to be able to face them.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
That's an incredibly myopic view.
Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it? He has every right to be critical of whatever he wants and his opinion is no more or less valuable than yours in the context of this thread lol. I'm sorry but trying to dismiss a post because of something entirely unrelated to the argument at hand is not a good way to get your point across.
There is no analogy necessary for Joy's thesis posts because it's very clear what he's doing. No one is confused as to what he has said and the context supporting his current opinion.
You have completely failed to grasp the clear point which was made in the post:
I'll try and make it easy for you:Since you no longer have one (Joy's old '24m' group) you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
The trouble is you’re ignoring literally years of posts from Joy on the subject. There’s years of NA history both in game and on the forums. You’ve come in at the tail end of it and talk like none of it happened.Edited by Satiar on December 24, 2017 11:10PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
You have completely failed to grasp the clear point which was made in the post:
I'll try and make it easy for you:
Since you no longer have one (Joy's old '24m' group) you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
*Ehm*.Joy_Division wrote: »I have fully supported removing this style of game from the very beginning, all the way back when I balled up in TSYM back in in summer 2014.2 -
Rin_Senya✭✭✭✭That's a bad analogy.
You do not have to throw rubbish on street to succeed at crossing it.
You do have to use a destro pain train if you want to succeed at beating other groups doing the same.
I disagree. If you hate something, call it "brainless" etc and think that it shouldn't even exist you don't go and contribute to that just because "oh I have to do it to be competitive". No one forces you to do it and there are actually tons of really good and competitive players that never liked or supported that play style and still they play the game how they want and are competitive without coming to forums constantly trash talking about it. And yes these players are also fighting other guilds and even doing GVG's.
Idc much that some people don't like the style of play that I do. Personally I've never asked for a nerf to something just because I'm not participating in it "anymore". I actually respect people that never liked bomb groups and have never been participating in them. But what I find hilarious (and it's what I said in my first comment) is people like @Joy_Division that used to play in bomb groups now saying that this style "must go" as soon as their guild quit the gameSomeone may need thicker skin if they think someone saying the pain trains look like bots is an awful insult that demands this much QQ. I pray that this person is never actually in TS with me as I jokingly say far worse.
I mean if you or him claims he did it a lot in the past it shouldn't be so difficult to do either, right? Also the point was about him posting in the same "insulting" manner about group play when he was in VE not the fact that he "post where he says he is in VE".are you wanting him to dig up a post where he says he is in VE and that VE plays like bots?
Now you got it!At the end of the day.....LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW. So I hope your friends that constantly post things like "ooooh destro zerg balls are such laaaame, damn bots following the crown" in almost every single post follow this advice too.
Everyone has right to be critical of everything. That's why I said that in my opinion person that used to zerg in 24 man bomb group for 3 years is nothing more than a hypocrite if he comes on forum and constantly posting some QQ about this style of play. No one forces this person to do so, if he would really hate it as much as how he describes it and really think that this style shouldn't be allowed in game anymore he wouldn't participate in this style (I actually saw him doing it even now) and also contribute to it. I'll repeat: if you don't like rubbish on your street you don't go out and constantly empty your bag there than shout loudly about how bad it is to do so.usmcjdking wrote: »Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it?Edited by Rin_Senya on December 24, 2017 11:32PMAnairi ~ EP | NA | AR50 - Dracarys
Anaire ~ AD/EP | EU | AR50 - Banana Squad/Zerg Squad/AOE Rats0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy has been making posts on this stuff for years while running with VE. It's not his fault you never bothered to read them.
Joy might have been posting thousands of comments for years. But don't compare some random suggestions and comments that dedicated to actual bugs and issues of the game (some of them were actually good) to constant recent insults against organized group game play. Here are some examples from just this thread:Joy_Division wrote: »strict ball-group stack on crown group that looks and play like bots and a loose group of 24 players who don't run nearly as tight and don't look like ducklings following their mother.Joy_Division wrote: »The organized bot like pain trainsJoy_Division wrote: »people such as yourself may appreciate stack-on-crown organized play and no matter how much skill it takes to play well, a lot of people who play this game can't stand that bot like style.Joy_Division wrote: »Perceptions matter; these ball-groups don't seem to have any intricate strategy other than just blobbing together and brute forcing things with AoE skills.Joy_Division wrote: »me as someone who used to ball-group with the best of them, I don't want to see them.Joy_Division wrote: »ball-group is just going to have 1 member mindless spamming rapids to make them immune to something that counters - effectively - the rest of us peons and puga? <...> to have one person whose sole function is just to spam one button that makes the entire group immune to a fundamental mechanics of roots and snares the rest of us have to suffer and make allowances in our builds. Purge-bot, rapids monkey, it just seems mindless. It's why people don't like it.Joy_Division wrote: »the basic mechanics that have always been and still are super effect: stack on crown and overwhelm with mass coordinated PBAoEs. The means and mechanics have changed in the delivery of those PBAoEs, yet it still resembles just a bunch of bots following the same path. It's that same old stack-on-crown pain train that I believe is the source of the many frustrations with "destro-bomb groups."Joy_Division wrote: »it still looks like a bunch bots running around spamming PBAoE death.
What I am typing is not hard to understand. If you don't like people constantly throwing rubbish on your street you don't go there throwing more rubbish just because "other people do it" and then stand in the middle of the road just after you emptied your bag shouting "OMG this is so baaaad, no one should do it!". You just simply don't do it yourself.
I am not breaking any littering laws or damaging the environment we live as in your misguided analogy.
This is a game. We are competitors. It's is ZoS's responsibility to establish the rules and the mechanics. I am not going to gimp myself simply because I find a style of play not very interesting. I am allowed to compete using legal and commonly practiced tactics while asking ZoS to make changes and reforms in order to make the game better. This does not make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who plays and wants the game to improve.
Its an analogy not an analogue to your actions. The point, had you chosen to understand it (although I imagine you did and are just trying to deflect) was that you were happy (maybe you complained maybe you didn't havent seen any quotes of yours back then) with running in such "zerg bot balls" back when you had a group to do it with.
Since you no longer have one you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
For example, @Derra has never liked ball groups and ball group play, I disagree with his views but I respect him for the fact that he hasn't participated in it and held onto his views.
Perhaps an analogy which might better suit your views is someone who used to gank saying ganking should be removed and bashing on it right when they no longer have an effective gank build.
Feel free to quote some of your old posts back when VE was in its hayday of you calling their style "bots" and "mindless/skill less" and perhaps I'll change my views.
That's an incredibly myopic view.
Someone has no right to be critical of something because they have partaken in it? He has every right to be critical of whatever he wants and his opinion is no more or less valuable than yours in the context of this thread lol. I'm sorry but trying to dismiss a post because of something entirely unrelated to the argument at hand is not a good way to get your point across.
There is no analogy necessary for Joy's thesis posts because it's very clear what he's doing. No one is confused as to what he has said and the context supporting his current opinion.
You have completely failed to grasp the clear point which was made in the post:
I'll try and make it easy for you:Since you no longer have one (Joy's old '24m' group) you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
The trouble is you’re ignoring literally years of posts from Joy on the subject. There’s years of NA history both in game and on the forums. You’ve come in at the tail end of it and talk like none of it happened.
Wow. I didnt think it was possible to still not understand the point being made.
Ok.
Joy has made many posts.
The content of joys post have changed from game suggestions and improvement posts to derogatory group comments since VE disbanded.
Are you still with me?
Quote any of these mirade of posts you are referencing refuting this please I'd love to be proven wrong.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on December 24, 2017 11:36PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)0 -
Texas✭✭✭Rin_Senya wrote:I mean if you or him claims he did it a lot in the past it shouldn't be so difficult to do either, right? Also the point was about him posting in the same "insulting" manner about group play when he was in VE not the fact that he "post where he says he is in VE".
I can vouch for what he has SAID in TS over the past 3 years but I will not be going through his archived posts. Don't put words into my mouth like I said I've read numerous posts although I'm sure at some point over the past 4 years he would have written something on these forums (purely speculative on this matter though).Rin_Senya wrote:Everyone has right to be critical of everything. That's why I said that in my opinion person that used to zerg in 24 man bomb group for 3 years is nothing more than a hypocrite if he comes on forum and constantly posting some QQ about this style of play as soon as his own guild has died. No one forces this person to do so, if he would really hate it as much as how he describes it and really think that this style shouldn't be allowed in game anymore he wouldn't participate in this style (I actually saw him doing it even now) and also contribute to it. I'll repeat: if you don't like rubbish on your street you don't go out and constantly empty your bag there than shout loudly about how bad it is to do so.
So you saw Joy running with another 24 person ball group? I mean if you did that would mean that what you typed above claiming he's trying to nerf something that he no longer does and the following statement below from Izanagi is what?Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote:Since you no longer have one (Joy's old '24m' group) you have started a diatribe of complaints against them. That is what makes you a hypocrite, not the fact necessarily that you once played in them, although it is a factor, but now you no longer have the option you have stepped up your attacks on that style to try and get it removed.
Categorically false?
Misleading at best?
BS?
Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions0 -
Texas✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Wow.
You're doing it wrong it's not Wow...........it's WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. I mean Steve coined it so at least do it properly when addressing him with it.
Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Wow.
You're doing it wrong it's not Wow...........it's WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. I mean Steve coined it so at least do it properly when addressing him with it.
Ill wait for a reply rather than a deflection thanks for trying though.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on December 25, 2017 12:23AM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)1 -
Texas✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: ».Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Wow.
You're doing it wrong it's not Wow...........it's WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. I mean Steve coined it so at least do it properly when addressing him with it.
Ill wait for a reply rather than a deflection thanks for trying though.
Oh I wasn't deflecting......I was informing you of your error!Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions0