The Current Destro Pain Train Meta Needs To Die

Agrippa_Invisus

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

technohic

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

I can't take you seriously if you claim communication happens with SWTOR.

Agrippa_Invisus

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

I can't take you seriously if you claim communication happens with SWTOR.

In comparison to Wheeler, Musco is a veritable chatterbox.

technohic

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

I can't take you seriously if you claim communication happens with SWTOR.

In comparison to Wheeler, Musco is a veritable chatterbox.

Musco is a community manager, Wrobel is a dev. There is a difference. Gina and Jessica are far more available here than he has ever been. Not that I have been as happy with them as of late for PvP being somewhat quiet and our PvP guy used to chirp up all the time a year or so ago and has been MIA and that is concerning.

Agrippa_Invisus

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

I can't take you seriously if you claim communication happens with SWTOR.

In comparison to Wheeler, Musco is a veritable chatterbox.

Musco is a community manager, Wrobel is a dev. There is a difference. Gina and Jessica are far more available here than he has ever been. Not that I have been as happy with them as of late for PvP being somewhat quiet and our PvP guy used to chirp up all the time a year or so ago and has been MIA and that is concerning.

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

Drakkdjinn

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Oh.... the humanity of it?

As a side note, the whole reason I posted this thread was because there'd been nearly a full afternoon with nothing of interest on the forums being posted. That's something that once upon a time was unheard of.

At least this worked to get some sort of discussion going.

But when I see other MMOs put way more effort into at least trying (even if they mess it up) to get some balance into their pvp systems and shake up metas that are too calcified, the potential of ESO that keeps getting wasted disappoints me. Heck, I've seen far better efforts from SWTOR, WoW, and DAoC in the past, and each of those games have their own problems. But you could tell there was some effort and communication being offered.

Not so much with ZOS.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just disappointed.

I can't take you seriously if you claim communication happens with SWTOR.

In comparison to Wheeler, Musco is a veritable chatterbox.

Musco is a community manager, Wrobel is a dev. There is a difference. Gina and Jessica are far more available here than he has ever been. Not that I have been as happy with them as of late for PvP being somewhat quiet and our PvP guy used to chirp up all the time a year or so ago and has been MIA and that is concerning.

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

Reskinning all the same mounts over and over again for the crown casino takes up a lot of their time these days I imagine. Why spend resources improving a product if fanbois are gonna shell out tons of money for nothing anyways? Gotta ride that gravy train until teh guberment figures out you've been running a casino under their noses without a license.

zyk

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

While the game was in development and after it launched, AvA was heavily hyped by ZOS. They set expectations that they failed to deliver on. Furthermore, since launching, they have periodically addressed issues in Cyrodiil which suggested they were working on them.

The writing may be on the wall already, but ZOS should state clearly what the future holds for AvA. If we can expect more of the same, they need to tell us so. In my view, we purchased -- and in some cases have continued to pay for -- a product that has failed to deliver on the promises made by its publisher. Not because the publisher lacks the means to deliver, but because they have, apparently, simply decided not to. This is a violation of basic ethics and possibly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert Please just be honest with us. Tell us how it is. The writing on the wall isn't good enough. Please be clear.

Agrippa_Invisus

zyk wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

While the game was in development and after it launched, AvA was heavily hyped by ZOS. They set expectations that they failed to deliver on. Furthermore, since launching, they have periodically addressed issues in Cyrodiil which suggested they were working on them.

The writing may be on the wall already, but ZOS should state clearly what the future holds for AvA. If we can expect more of the same, they need to tell us so. In my view, we purchased -- and in some cases have continued to pay for -- a product that has failed to deliver on the promises made by its publisher. Not because the publisher lacks the means to deliver, but because they have, apparently, simply decided not to. This is a violation of basic ethics and possibly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert Please just be honest with us. Tell us how it is. The writing on the wall isn't good enough. Please be clear.

As much as I wish they would say it, I doubt we'll ever see a post saying:

"While we had great hopes for PVP and AVA, they have not panned out. We simply do not intend to focus the resources necessary to revamp it at this time, as new DLC and Crown Crate creation is a far more efficient use of our development resources at this time. We apologize, and hope you will continue to enjoy what we do have."

Because if even one sub or one block purchase of crown crates can be retained by staying silent, they'll stay silent.

If they ever do actually say it, I can at least respect it if not like it. I can intellectually grok why that's the case, even if emotions run counter to it.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

While the game was in development and after it launched, AvA was heavily hyped by ZOS. They set expectations that they failed to deliver on. Furthermore, since launching, they have periodically addressed issues in Cyrodiil which suggested they were working on them.

The writing may be on the wall already, but ZOS should state clearly what the future holds for AvA. If we can expect more of the same, they need to tell us so. In my view, we purchased -- and in some cases have continued to pay for -- a product that has failed to deliver on the promises made by its publisher. Not because the publisher lacks the means to deliver, but because they have, apparently, simply decided not to. This is a violation of basic ethics and possibly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert Please just be honest with us. Tell us how it is. The writing on the wall isn't good enough. Please be clear.

As much as I wish they would say it, I doubt we'll ever see a post saying:

"While we had great hopes for PVP and AVA, they have not panned out. We simply do not intend to focus the resources necessary to revamp it at this time, as new DLC and Crown Crate creation is a far more efficient use of our development resources at this time. We apologize, and hope you will continue to enjoy what we do have."

Because if even one sub or one block purchase of crown crates can be retained by staying silent, they'll stay silent.

If they ever do actually say it, I can at least respect it if not like it. I can intellectually grok why that's the case, even if emotions run counter to it.

Wishful thinking for straight forward communication. The writing has been on the wall for open world pvp for a long time but most of us have been holding out hope for a miracle of sorts to save it. From stale underdeveloped content to outright broken mechanics and poor server performance little if anything seems to improve and,in most cases, continues to degrade. I think most of us should have seen this coming the moment they announced changing their business model from sub to B2P with micro transactions in a cash shop. PVP isn't monetized enough for them to put in the effort. It is a shame really because they have a real gem here, but it really needs some development attention to get to the point where the population will return.

Lucky28

kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Regardless, ZOS is far too tight lipped itself.

While the game was in development and after it launched, AvA was heavily hyped by ZOS. They set expectations that they failed to deliver on. Furthermore, since launching, they have periodically addressed issues in Cyrodiil which suggested they were working on them.

The writing may be on the wall already, but ZOS should state clearly what the future holds for AvA. If we can expect more of the same, they need to tell us so. In my view, we purchased -- and in some cases have continued to pay for -- a product that has failed to deliver on the promises made by its publisher. Not because the publisher lacks the means to deliver, but because they have, apparently, simply decided not to. This is a violation of basic ethics and possibly more.

@ZOS_RichLambert Please just be honest with us. Tell us how it is. The writing on the wall isn't good enough. Please be clear.

As much as I wish they would say it, I doubt we'll ever see a post saying:

"While we had great hopes for PVP and AVA, they have not panned out. We simply do not intend to focus the resources necessary to revamp it at this time, as new DLC and Crown Crate creation is a far more efficient use of our development resources at this time. We apologize, and hope you will continue to enjoy what we do have."

Because if even one sub or one block purchase of crown crates can be retained by staying silent, they'll stay silent.

If they ever do actually say it, I can at least respect it if not like it. I can intellectually grok why that's the case, even if emotions run counter to it.

Wishful thinking for straight forward communication. The writing has been on the wall for open world pvp for a long time but most of us have been holding out hope for a miracle of sorts to save it. From stale underdeveloped content to outright broken mechanics and poor server performance little if anything seems to improve and,in most cases, continues to degrade. I think most of us should have seen this coming the moment they announced changing their business model from sub to B2P with micro transactions in a cash shop. PVP isn't monetized enough for them to put in the effort. It is a shame really because they have a real gem here, but it really needs some development attention to get to the point where the population will return.

the real shame is they've been very close to a respectable balanced state for PvP but then they do something like Morrowind and completely *** everything up. i dunno this game as a few more patches in it, but if ZoS destroys all the classes like they mentioned on eso live. it's done.

Ghostbane

FireCowCommando

I thought the new meta was deciding between to just get drunk, or to get trashed in order to cope with lag and performance issues?

technohic

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I thought the new meta was deciding between to just get drunk, or to get trashed in order to cope with lag and performance issues?

That's why we do that? And here I wasn't just limiting it to ESO.

Irylia

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had 3 people on destro last night in a 14-15 man group. It's hardly a destro train at that point surely

@Irylia

Drac isn’t the majority
And they also attempt to seperate themselves from the random pugs who can follow solidified guilds.
Next

Irylia

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had 3 people on destro last night in a 14-15 man group. It's hardly a destro train at that point surely

@Irylia

Drac isn’t the majority
Ad they also attempt to seperate themselves from the random pugs who can follow solidified guilds.
Next

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had 3 people on destro last night in a 14-15 man group. It's hardly a destro train at that point surely

@Irylia

Nice, but my post was a little over two months ago for when this would have been relevant. Not to mention I chose a random number to ephasize destro ults insane abuse in the "current" state of pvp when the post was made.

Lexxypwns

Irylia wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had 3 people on destro last night in a 14-15 man group. It's hardly a destro train at that point surely

@Irylia

Drac isn’t the majority
Ad they also attempt to seperate themselves from the random pugs who can follow solidified guilds.
Next

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had 3 people on destro last night in a 14-15 man group. It's hardly a destro train at that point surely

@Irylia

https://i.gyazo.com/d6a14901a4df51ce16741a6a2bbeb6bb.png

Redsky is a bomber in drac.

Nice, but my post was a little over two months ago for when this would have been relevant. Not to mention I chose a random number to ephasize destro ults insane abuse in the "current" state of pvp when the post was made.

And I’m saying 1/3 of a full raid activating their destros at a time isn’t the meta

BaylorCorvette

It's annoying for sure. Cyrodiil is kind of caught in an awkward place. It is meant to be massive PvP with no rules (as opposed to numbers being equal on both sides, like BGs) however the problem is, that things like VD and Proxy that are meant to help take out large numbers, while good in theory just turned into a cluster F of large guild zergs using these tools to bulldoze their way through anything.

I'm not really sure what the answer is, you take away all the tools to kill large zergs and then it's just a numbers game. You don't do anything and it's the same boring strats. Until something changes, I'm sticking to small groups that more or less just hit and run on targets.

HowlKimchi

Just make eye of the storm un-stackable? The other morph can stay as is for PVE people.

BaylorCorvette

Another thing what would help is if EotS could be fully negated like the other morph.

Anazasi

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

It's annoying for sure. Cyrodiil is kind of caught in an awkward place. It is meant to be massive PvP with no rules (as opposed to numbers being equal on both sides, like BGs) however the problem is, that things like VD and Proxy that are meant to help take out large numbers, while good in theory just turned into a cluster F of large guild zergs using these tools to bulldoze their way through anything.

I'm not really sure what the answer is, you take away all the tools to kill large zergs and then it's just a numbers game. You don't do anything and it's the same boring strats. Until something changes, I'm sticking to small groups that more or less just hit and run on targets.

And it's not a number game right now? ROFL, EP stacking 40 players to take Alessia? It's funny, im sure that AD stacks up the same sometimes to defend but the problem is not the EoTS or even how many are casted at the same time. The issue is the pathetic mindless number game that everyone plays. This is the true enemy. It creates lag, poor play, random disconnects and mindless zerging where attrition is the only thing that matters. My advice groups out there. Get good and learn to fight on your own without having to have your hands held by the rest of your faction.

Great Job Drac for showing the players that good mechanics, good play style, and a tuned balance is all you need to kill the mindless blob.....

I should add that Monday and Tuesday night EP's answer to pushing Alessia was just send more instead of actual strategy. Just disgraceful and even more was the so called well known EP players just zerging along. Honor or Dishonor is yours depending on how you play. Make a choice so I can fill up my ignore list please.

Roaldy

Anazasi wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

It's annoying for sure. Cyrodiil is kind of caught in an awkward place. It is meant to be massive PvP with no rules (as opposed to numbers being equal on both sides, like BGs) however the problem is, that things like VD and Proxy that are meant to help take out large numbers, while good in theory just turned into a cluster F of large guild zergs using these tools to bulldoze their way through anything.

I'm not really sure what the answer is, you take away all the tools to kill large zergs and then it's just a numbers game. You don't do anything and it's the same boring strats. Until something changes, I'm sticking to small groups that more or less just hit and run on targets.

And it's not a number game right now? ROFL, EP stacking 40 players to take Alessia? It's funny, im sure that AD stacks up the same sometimes to defend but the problem is not the EoTS or even how many are casted at the same time. The issue is the pathetic mindless number game that everyone plays. This is the true enemy. It creates lag, poor play, random disconnects and mindless zerging where attrition is the only thing that matters. My advice groups out there. Get good and learn to fight on your own without having to have your hands held by the rest of your faction.

Great Job Drac for showing the players that good mechanics, good play style, and a tuned balance is all you need to kill the mindless blob.....

I should add that Monday and Tuesday night EP's answer to pushing Alessia was just send more instead of actual strategy. Just disgraceful and even more was the so called well known EP players just zerging along. Honor or Dishonor is yours depending on how you play. Make a choice so I can fill up my ignore list please.

One of the few times I've agreed with you. this is pretty much 100% true.

Drummerx04

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Just make eye of the storm un-stackable? The other morph can stay as is for PVE people.

Unfortunately, removing EOTS stacking would probably just make ball groups invincible and destro bombers would get replaced with stam warden shalk+dawnbreaker bombs.

Lucky28

Drummerx04 wrote: »

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Just make eye of the storm un-stackable? The other morph can stay as is for PVE people.

Unfortunately, removing EOTS stacking would probably just make ball groups invincible and destro bombers would get replaced with stam warden shalk+dawnbreaker bombs.

somewhat. tether/det bombs are still viable just not as convenient as destro bombs. but i don't think making destro's not stack is the answer. they just have to make other ultimates viable. and things like earthgore are not helping to that end.

Vizier

Remove or greatly diminish CC immunity and have purge only remove damaging effects but not necessarily negative effects. This would cause use of potions with a cool down for CC immunity or immovable spells only. Zerg balls would be pretty much stopped in their tracks.

BaylorCorvette

Anazasi wrote: »

And it's not a number game right now? ROFL, EP stacking 40 players to take Alessia? It's funny, im sure that AD stacks up the same sometimes to defend but the problem is not the EoTS or even how many are casted at the same time. The issue is the pathetic mindless number game that everyone plays. This is the true enemy. It creates lag, poor play, random disconnects and mindless zerging where attrition is the only thing that matters. My advice groups out there. Get good and learn to fight on your own without having to have your hands held by the rest of your faction.

Great Job Drac for showing the players that good mechanics, good play style, and a tuned balance is all you need to kill the mindless blob.....

I should add that Monday and Tuesday night EP's answer to pushing Alessia was just send more instead of actual strategy. Just disgraceful and even more was the so called well known EP players just zerging along. Honor or Dishonor is yours depending on how you play. Make a choice so I can fill up my ignore list please.

I'm well aware of the situation. I only play AD on PC NA in Vivec. But my point is I've been in groups that have been vastly out numbered, but well timed Ults, with VD and Proxy can wipe the mindless zergs fairly easy. Cyrodiil is ALWAYS going to be a numbers game. It's just how it was designed and honestly I'm fine with that, real wars are rarely fought on equal terms.

Lucky28

Vizier wrote: »

Remove or greatly diminish CC immunity and have purge only remove damaging effects but not necessarily negative effects. This would cause use of potions with a cool down for CC immunity or immovable spells only. Zerg balls would be pretty much stopped in their tracks.

yeah it would also cripple solo/small scale players. that change would benefit the zerg more than it would harm the ball.

Sharee

Lucky28 wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Remove or greatly diminish CC immunity and have purge only remove damaging effects but not necessarily negative effects. This would cause use of potions with a cool down for CC immunity or immovable spells only. Zerg balls would be pretty much stopped in their tracks.

yeah it would also cripple solo/small scale players. that change would benefit the zerg more than it would harm the ball.

How about making purge targeted like healing ward. Can no longer be spammed to give the whole group virtual immunity to negative effects, but is still useful for small scale, and solo players are unaffected.

Kartalin

Vizier wrote: »

Remove or greatly diminish CC immunity and have purge only remove damaging effects but not necessarily negative effects. This would cause use of potions with a cool down for CC immunity or immovable spells only. Zerg balls would be pretty much stopped in their tracks.

Right so numbers would once again equal victory and the ability to create a well built team that can take on three times their number (typically strung out over several smaller “encounters “) diminishes even further.

Skill-less sieging wins again, everyone celebrates, the evil 16 person group has been defeated, the keep is taken, and the 60-man faction zerg descends like locusts onto its next target.

Vilestride

I am still confused. Before we go suggesting solutions willy nilly we should probably define the problem properly. Usually that is step one. I am still unclear on the general consensus so I imagine zos is to . Is the problem ball groups? Or is it zergs? Because for starters ball groups are literally the only thing effective against zergs.

Texas

Vilestride wrote: »

I am still confused. Before we go suggesting solutions willy nilly we should probably define the problem properly. Usually that is step one. I am still unclear on the general consensus so I imagine zos is to . Is the problem ball groups? Or is it zergs? Because for starters ball groups are literally the only thing effective against zergs.

To play devils advocate now.....with the lack of a healthy population of ball groups or lack of any being online.....reverse your statement.....Because for starters zergs are literally the only thing effective against ball groups.