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Why Do Guild Dues Exist?
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LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »
The House Cut, I may be operating off old knowledge but I swear it was 10%.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/67523/guild-store-house-cut
Today it says 7%. I thought based on the mail return it was still 10%.
Edited by LordSemaj on December 20, 2017 7:44PM0 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »
The House Cut, I may be operating off old knowledge but I swear it was 10%.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/67523/guild-store-house-cut
Today it says 7%. I thought based on the mail return it was still 10%.
Half of that disappears into the great black ZoS/ESO void, mate. Guilds only get half that.4 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »
The House Cut, I may be operating off old knowledge but I swear it was 10%.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/67523/guild-store-house-cut
Today it says 7%. I thought based on the mail return it was still 10%.
Half of that disappears into the great black ZoS/ESO void, mate. Guilds only get half that.
It goes to pay Molag Bal's Scholarship Fund for Children Who Can't Read Necromancy Scrolls Good And Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too1 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's what I'm not willing to do:
pay attention to timing on Sunday to bid on a trader
deal with angry members if the trader is lost for a week
monitor guild chat
enforce basic rules on common courtesy including the occasional dead beat in a trade between members
Keep the troops active with regular messages, updates and events
empty the guild bank constantly so people can donate more green recipes
Follow a sales chart
Monitor guild money and the bank account
run auctions and raffles
Buy mundus stones and a crown store level mansion so that my guild can keep up with the guilds that have a full set of attunables.
Monitor membership and kick inactives
Enthusiastically welcome every freaking noob
Those are just my observations of work I see being done by the GM and officers, but I suspect there's more that I don't see. My guilds have small sales minimums or raffle requirements, but If it became necessary to add dues, why on earth would I grumble? It would take about 2% of the time to farm the gold to pay the dues that it would to do all the stuff guild admin is doing. And sales requirements are nothing. If you aren't meeting the small minimums, you should just bail because it's not working out for you either. If you pve mostly, you probably get enough rubedo leather hide scraps to sell and cover the minimum with no extra effort at all. If you pvp, transfer that ap into motifs and sell. If that's somehow not enough, 20 minutes of flower picking would probably cover the rest. Not a big deal. Don't you want gold? Selling is good.
So unless the guild has no trader, I don't understand complaining about a few requirements. Basically you want other people to do a bunch of work so that you can get the benefits of a guild, but not contribute yourself. Honestly, if your guild has no requirements, you should do your part anyway.
11 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Colecovision wrote: »Here's what I'm not willing to do:
pay attention to timing on Sunday to bid on a trader
deal with angry members if the trader is lost for a week
monitor guild chat
enforce basic rules on common courtesy including the occasional dead beat in a trade between members
Keep the troops active with regular messages, updates and events
empty the guild bank constantly so people can donate more green recipes
Follow a sales chart
Monitor guild money and the bank account
run auctions and raffles
Buy mundus stones and a crown store level mansion so that my guild can keep up with the guilds that have a full set of attunables.
Monitor membership and kick inactives
Enthusiastically welcome every freaking noob
Those are just my observations of work I see being done by the GM and officers, but I suspect there's more that I don't see. My guilds have small sales minimums or raffle requirements, but If it became necessary to add dues, why on earth would I grumble? It would take about 2% of the time to farm the gold to pay the dues that it would to do all the stuff guild admin is doing. And sales requirements are nothing. If you aren't meeting the small minimums, you should just bail because it's not working out for you either. If you pve mostly, you probably get enough rubedo leather hide scraps to sell and cover the minimum with no extra effort at all. If you pvp, transfer that ap into motifs and sell. If that's somehow not enough, 20 minutes of flower picking would probably cover the rest. Not a big deal. Don't you want gold? Selling is good.
So unless the guild has no trader, I don't understand complaining about a few requirements. Basically you want other people to do a bunch of work so that you can get the benefits of a guild, but not contribute yourself. Honestly, if your guild has no requirements, you should do your part anyway.
This guy understands ^^^^^^3 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭Those are all basic manager or salesman skills that people who run a business already have. Guildmasters who have a similar career in real life can put that knowledge to use online and do it more efficiently and with less hassle over ones who don't. It's okay to let a doctor perform surgery. No need to learn how to yourself.1
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Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭CheepsNSalsa wrote: »The gold doesn't go into the guild leaders pocket. It's used to bid on trader locations. Once a week trader locations reset so guilds bid on them in order to secure them as their own for that week. The better the locations the more valuable it is. I've heard of bids close to 10 million gold. Just for the week. That's why all successful trading guilds require weekly dues.
This1 -
Bryong9ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.1 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
daily reminder that consoles do not get a use of master merchant and as such - cannot track weekly sales of individual guild members. in general, weekly dues are a console rather then PC thing.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.
I've been paying a lot of attention to it, actually.
I understand the point behind the sales requirements, but I am only saying, that there are ways to circumvent weekly dues, and it is that approach that I am solely in favor of.
Believe me- when you've been in a whole lot of guilds like me, you've seen all of the various systems in effect....0 -
Armatesz✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.
I've been paying a lot of attention to it, actually.
I understand the point behind the sales requirements, but I am only saying, that there are ways to circumvent weekly dues, and it is that approach that I am solely in favor of.
Believe me- when you've been in a whole lot of guilds like me, you've seen all of the various systems in effect....
For clarification are you pc or console on your experiences?Ärmätèsz
Xbox NA
Guildless (by choice)0 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.
I've been paying a lot of attention to it, actually.
I understand the point behind the sales requirements, but I am only saying, that there are ways to circumvent weekly dues, and it is that approach that I am solely in favor of.
Believe me- when you've been in a whole lot of guilds like me, you've seen all of the various systems in effect....
For clarification are you pc or console on your experiences?
PC. I understand the situation may be different on console, so won't bother commenting on that.
In PC we have guilds that charge dues and guilds that don't in the same location. To me it is rather clear which is preferential for members. Naturally, there are reasons that contribute to that, which I am not terribly concerned with. I will try to learn as much about the different causes as I can.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
There isn't a single PC guild that requires dues (they have a sales requirement or a fee if you don't meet the sales target). Console guilds require dues since they don't have add-ons to track sales.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 21, 2017 3:52AM1 -
Armatesz✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.
I've been paying a lot of attention to it, actually.
I understand the point behind the sales requirements, but I am only saying, that there are ways to circumvent weekly dues, and it is that approach that I am solely in favor of.
Believe me- when you've been in a whole lot of guilds like me, you've seen all of the various systems in effect....
For clarification are you pc or console on your experiences?
PC. I understand the situation may be different on console, so won't bother commenting on that.
In PC we have guilds that charge dues and guilds that don't in the same location. To me it is rather clear which is preferential for members. Naturally, there are reasons that contribute to that, which I am not terribly concerned with. I will try to learn as much about the different causes as I can.
Unfortunate to say this but what you would have to propose is only 1/3 of the valid info I would actually need to reflect any validity. Not saying it won't be taken into consideration but would be needing more than just one point of view for this. Still something to be considered either way and still addresses some other concerns I have in other departments.Ärmätèsz
Xbox NA
Guildless (by choice)0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
Have you been paying attention to this thread at all??
If a guild is making a 5 million weekly bid, that means it needs 10K from each member every week.
If it were to get that from sales alone, then each member will need to sell an average of 285K each week. Okay, sure, let's go with a minimum sales requirement, then... of 285K. I'm sure that will go over well.
Most guilds in places like Wayrest or Mournhold don't have draconian sales requirements like that. They have sales requirements of, say, 10K or 50K. It's just a token amount to ensure that you are active and selling something. But it's not nearly enough to actually cover the per-member cost.
If a guild doesn't have dues (and most on PC/NA don't), then it means that it's getting a lot of voluntary funding from the membership.
I've been paying a lot of attention to it, actually.
I understand the point behind the sales requirements, but I am only saying, that there are ways to circumvent weekly dues, and it is that approach that I am solely in favor of.
Believe me- when you've been in a whole lot of guilds like me, you've seen all of the various systems in effect....
For clarification are you pc or console on your experiences?
PC. I understand the situation may be different on console, so won't bother commenting on that.
In PC we have guilds that charge dues and guilds that don't in the same location. To me it is rather clear which is preferential for members. Naturally, there are reasons that contribute to that, which I am not terribly concerned with. I will try to learn as much about the different causes as I can.
There are no guilds that charge dues on PC. They have sales minimums. You only pay the due if you can't meet the sales target. There are no stable guilds in top locations that don't have sales requirements. There are transient guilds that make it there for a few weeks because they stockpiled gold at a weaker location and/or the GM is rich and pays out-of-pocket for the bid each week (which is also not sustainable).Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 21, 2017 3:59AM1 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
There isn't a single PC guild that requires dues (they have a sales requirement or a fee if you don't meet the sales target). Console guilds require dues since they don't have add-ons to track sales.
This just isn't even remotely close to true. There are guilds that solely require dues ( or raffle which is the same thing, raffles are entirely bogus), who may or may not also impose a minimum sales requirement.
I suggest that in the future you don't come here and start making things up, thank you very much.
I can think of a couple, and I'm not going to bring their names into this, so don't ask.
To say that NO guilds charge dues on PC NA is flat out false. Ask around, maybe you'll acquire that info somewhere along the line as well.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
There isn't a single PC guild that requires dues (they have a sales requirement or a fee if you don't meet the sales target). Console guilds require dues since they don't have add-ons to track sales.
This just isn't even remotely close to true. There are guilds that solely require dues ( or raffle which is the same thing, raffles are entirely bogus), who may or may not also impose a minimum sales requirement.
I suggest that in the future you don't come here and start making things up, thank you very much.
I can think of a couple, and I'm not going to bring their names into this, so don't ask.
To say that NO guilds charge dues on PC NA is flat out false. Ask around, maybe you'll acquire that info somewhere along the line as well.
Okay then, 99%%. There isn't a single major guild that requires dues instead of a sales requirement.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 21, 2017 4:41AM0 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »
The House Cut, I may be operating off old knowledge but I swear it was 10%.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/67523/guild-store-house-cut
Today it says 7%. I thought based on the mail return it was still 10%.
Half of that disappears into the great black ZoS/ESO void, mate. Guilds only get half that.
Also, the link you posted is from a forum thread from April 2014, at launch. That was before the implementing of Trader Kiosks which were not added to game till Aug 2014 in Update 3.
You will see 7% but as said, half is a gold sink, just like your listing fee...
Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
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_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)0 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do you guys and gals keep saying weekly dues is a console thing?!
As Ive mentioned before, there are NO guilds on xbox eu that charge fees, have sales requirements or must enter raffles. Its not a platform issue, more of a community issue.
When it comes to pvp we have the saltiest players you can imagine. In pve we have some of the most elitist idiots ive ever come across but when it comes to trading, the trade gm's of the biggest trade guilds work together to stop the need for dues of any kind.0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"It's a console thing" doesn't mean that everyone on console servers does it; it means that if someone does it, chances are high that it's on a console server. If XboxEU doesn't do it, that leaves us with three others, plus the occasional PC guild that does it for whatever reason.0 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭The dues are beyond a joke but it's a needed evil
As mentioned before guild vendors are stupidly over priced and the problem is some guilds have multiple names and are bidding all over with requirement to fund them all from the main guild this offers them the best location and back up locations with low turn over
The whole process needs a revamp price of items are stupidly high and they are rising more and more that they are putting new players and those with little play time out of the markets
We need either a single auction house
Or recommended max sale price on items
And vendors bids can only be made from the taxes from sales this would keep prices at a balance
How would you get the first vendor I hear you ask simple
It's a 10k guild fee to make a guild 2k payable into the bank by the first 10 players
First 10k unlocks the bank the second 10k grants you a vendor token that allows trades with in the guild in order to generate your first taxes so it encourages in guild trading
In guild trading give lower taxes and more to the players so they can profit these taxes eventually enable the purchase of a street vendor and as such higher taxes
Gold can not be be deposited or removed from the guild tax fund
If the guild shuts all gold is claimed by the faction leader in game (it simple lost)
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RobDaCool✭✭✭I'd like to see other classes like necromancer or battle-mage.
More races are pointless because people will still choose Redguard for stamina classes and Altmer for caster lolPS5 Pro NA - RobdacoolV20 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Brittany_Joy wrote: »This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.
Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?
you are in wrong guilds then. I am in 5 and none of them requires any gold payments from me, just to have all 30 slots full in guild store, or at least not empty and to be online few times in two or 3 weeks.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »I'm in a trading guild and if i don't sell enough for the week i have to pay the due. Its not really a big deal and i have already made far much more gold being in the guild than if i wasn't. Just from winnings from raffles i have made well over 300,000.
Weekly sales requirements are perfectly fine and make sense.
It's only when the guild feels obligated to take money from the members, that I take issue with it.
Weekly sales requirements are entirely fair, and even given that your total sales are tallied based off of amount sold, rather than pure profits (ie flipping items) it is entirely fair.
There isn't a single PC guild that requires dues (they have a sales requirement or a fee if you don't meet the sales target). Console guilds require dues since they don't have add-ons to track sales.
This just isn't even remotely close to true. There are guilds that solely require dues ( or raffle which is the same thing, raffles are entirely bogus), who may or may not also impose a minimum sales requirement.
I suggest that in the future you don't come here and start making things up, thank you very much.
I can think of a couple, and I'm not going to bring their names into this, so don't ask.
To say that NO guilds charge dues on PC NA is flat out false. Ask around, maybe you'll acquire that info somewhere along the line as well.
Speaking of "making things up"... "Raffles are entirely bogus"? You do have proof for your blanket statement?
My no dues trading guild does have a optional raffle, and an optional two tier auction to raise the gold for the trader. It's a 100 gold for a ticket. The gm is totally above board about how the winners are chosen. Lists are posted on the website.
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