Why Do Guild Dues Exist?

Brittany_Joy

This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.

Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?

redspecter23

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Betsararie

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

CheepsNSalsa

The gold doesn't go into the guild leaders pocket. It's used to bid on trader locations. Once a week trader locations reset so guilds bid on them in order to secure them as their own for that week. The better the locations the more valuable it is. I've heard of bids close to 10 million gold. Just for the week. That's why all successful trading guilds require weekly dues.

FloppyTouch

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

QFT

Lake

There are plenty of non-due guilds with traders. However, the traders are usually in obscure locations.

AbysmalGhul

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

INB4 people start to believe Blanco's statement

*pulls out popcorn and 3-D glasses

DeadlyRecluse

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Brittany_Joy

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

AbysmalGhul

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

QFT

D'oh!

Brittany_Joy

CheepsNSalsa wrote: »

The gold doesn't go into the guild leaders pocket. It's used to bid on trader locations. Once a week trader locations reset so guilds bid on them in order to secure them as their own for that week. The better the locations the more valuable it is. I've heard of bids close to 10 million gold. Just for the week. That's why all successful trading guilds require weekly dues.

Holy cow that is a major price tag for a guild store. This whole guild store bidding is just overcomplicating stuff and forcing guild leaders to extort gold from their members. Why can't we just have a simple auction house.

I thought the guild store was only 10-40k gold. Now I understand why it's so expensive to be in a darn guild. But as a casual player peeps need to understand I want to experience the guild store benefits without selling my soul to the guild leaders.

Brittany_Joy

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Oh well at least some ethical guilds still exist. I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

Ohtimbar

As others have said, it costs several fortunes to maintain a trader in high value areas, and I know this from experience. Even backwater locations can be expensive. I think, as a stopgap, guild taxes should be increased, or made configurable. Better still would be a design review of the blind bidding process. Neither of those things will ever happen though, as guilds are a forgotten feature of the game as far as development is concerned.

zaria

Lake wrote: »

There are plenty of non-due guilds with traders. However, the traders are usually in obscure locations.

My main trading guild require 1K due unless sold 10K a week. However trader is just an Argonian in an Khajiit trading post in Reapers March so it should be cheap (this is not an brave cats add)

Note that many who use lots of resources in marketing don't have very good products.
it tend to increase revenue however who is nice for guild leader / CEO.

freespirit

Many of the top guilds on PC-EU do not require a weekly payment but some do set a "minimum" sales target.

However if you are just starting out as a trader those guilds would probably not be right for you anyway, it's just a matter of keeping any eye on zone chat for recruitment adds really, watch for the ones offering help to learn.

Start with a free guild, in no time at all you will learn the ropes and be entirely comfortable joining a guild with say a 100k sales per week requirement

Personally I would never join a guild asking for a weekly gold payment

AbysmalGhul

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Oh well at least some ethical guilds still exist. I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

Guild traders don't buy themselves. Trading guilds have to earn that money somehow to stay in the market. Guilds will often do raffles or events to earn money through ticket sales so they can procure these better locations, but people still paid money to make this happen. I prefer paying dues because it balances out for fairness and contribution sake.

maxjapank

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

@redspecter23 gave you a very informative answer. Don't know what else you expect. Guilds must bid on a guild trader / vendor, and some of the better locations like Rawl'kha can be very expensive. Bids can cost a guild millions of gold just for one week. So they depend on members selling, members donating, member-only auction events, members joining raffles, and yes, weekly dues.

I can understand a newer player's distaste at paying a trading guild weekly fees, but when my trading guild wins their bid, I make a ton of gold selling. And win they lose the location, my sales plummet. So over time, I have come to view weekly fees less as extorting, but more as appreciation for what the guild leaders provide for me.

zaria

maxjapank wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

@redspecter23 gave you a very informative answer. Don't know what else you expect. Guilds must bid on a guild trader / vendor, and some of the better locations like Rawl'kha can be very expensive. Bids can cost a guild millions of gold just for one week. So they depend on members selling, members donating, member-only auction events, members joining raffles, and yes, weekly dues.

I can understand a newer player's distaste at paying a trading guild weekly fees, but when my trading guild wins their bid, I make a ton of gold selling. And win they lose the location, my sales plummet. So over time, I have come to view weekly fees less as extorting, but more as appreciation for what the guild leaders provide for me.

This and its also an way to purge inactive from guild, Tell if you go on vacation or take an break, pay due up front and your are golden.

Dapper Dinosaur

People that know nothing about running a trade guild should keep their mouth shut and stop saying it's greed and nothing more. You try taking a trader in the middle of Mournhold without MILLIONS of gold.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

The reason dues are required for massive trader guilds is just so they can continue to function. You can VERY easily make your weekly deposit back and then some by selling even one item in the store for over 5k or whatever your due is, then everything after that is straight profit.

Stop complaining. If you want to make the best of it, do what I do, hoard things to sell, get into one of the guilds and sell all of your wares in one week so you only pay dues once to move huge amounts of product, then leave and start hoarding again. My last cycle earned me roughly 600k gold in profits for one round of 5k dues. It's the best way to game the system.

Milvan

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.

Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?

Metonymic fallacy

This term refers to a tendency for the represented part to be taken as an accurate reflection of the whole of that which it is taken as standing for.

redspecter23

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

I did answer your question. You asked what is the deal with the influx of greed and mandatory dues. I replied that I haven't seen such a thing, at least on PC/NA. If you're on consoles, or PC/EU I can't really speak for that as I'm not there and I have heard that dues are more of a thing on consoles. I know I can be trolly at times and deserve to be put in my place when I am, but in this case I was honestly trying to answer the question in the best possible way. I do apologize if you were offended.

Exodium

Shoutout to Precise Chaos on PS4 NA who actually know how to run a guild.

They are donation based (no mandatory weekly fees) and manage to secure top guild locations every week i.e. mournhold, ghratwood, stormhaven. They also raise their fees through auction events and raffles.

If you're looking to escape your oppressive guilds (cough back alley/aldmeri traders etc etc) hit me up with a msg and Ill pm you our leaders PSN account.

kargen27

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

CheepsNSalsa wrote: »

The gold doesn't go into the guild leaders pocket. It's used to bid on trader locations. Once a week trader locations reset so guilds bid on them in order to secure them as their own for that week. The better the locations the more valuable it is. I've heard of bids close to 10 million gold. Just for the week. That's why all successful trading guilds require weekly dues.

Holy cow that is a major price tag for a guild store. This whole guild store bidding is just overcomplicating stuff and forcing guild leaders to extort gold from their members. Why can't we just have a simple auction house.

I thought the guild store was only 10-40k gold. Now I understand why it's so expensive to be in a darn guild. But as a casual player peeps need to understand I want to experience the guild store benefits without selling my soul to the guild leaders.

It is not extortion. Members of the guild volunteer to support the guild as it benefits the entire guild when they can keep a steady trader. Each player had to decide for themselves is having access to a high traffic trader something they are willing to work for (there are ways other than gold to pay dues) or would they be better served by a guild with no dues and a less traveled location.

zyk

In addition to taxes from my sales, I contribute 60k gold per week to my trade guilds and feel bad because the admins work like mad to secure enough funds to maintain a good trader location. I'm amazed by the effort they put in.

IMO, those who suggest it's out of greed, are probably ignorant. But of course, this will vary on a case by case basis.

There's no need for spite though. If you don't think it's a fair, don't join their guild.

Nocturnal_Annoyance

As a console player, 3 of my trading guilds have weekly dues. Those three guilds though are always in amazing spots each week. It's not cheap to hire a Mournhold/Wayrest/Elden Root trader. I don't mind the fees and often donate more than required because those traders make a lot of gold for my current housing habit. Honestly even if you're in a free trading guild you should donate weekly to help out. When the Guild bank falls short of the bid... more often than not the GM is the one who makes up for it so the Guild won't suffer.

Dapper Dinosaur

There's no need for spite though. If you don't think it's a fair, don't join their guild.

This is the key line. You want to see real extortion? Look in the Crown Store and the prices of everything that isn't a DLC zone or dungeon set. THAT is real extortion.

Nobody is making you join guilds with dues, so if you don't like it you are free to walk away and try for hours to find a trade guild that might suit your needs on rare occasions because they're not a guild serious enough to require dues.

Brittany_Joy

maxjapank wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

@redspecter23 gave you a very informative answer. Don't know what else you expect. Guilds must bid on a guild trader / vendor, and some of the better locations like Rawl'kha can be very expensive. Bids can cost a guild millions of gold just for one week. So they depend on members selling, members donating, member-only auction events, members joining raffles, and yes, weekly dues.

I can understand a newer player's distaste at paying a trading guild weekly fees, but when my trading guild wins their bid, I make a ton of gold selling. And win they lose the location, my sales plummet. So over time, I have come to view weekly fees less as extorting, but more as appreciation for what the guild leaders provide for me.

Sounds like you got a case of Stockholm syndrome. Kidnapped people tend to develop an appreciation for the kidnappers deeds. Blink twice if you need help.

To be honest playing devil's advocate for a distasteful practice as annual extortion renamed to guild dues to appease the unwary does not exclude the fact it can still be seen as an act of greed. For the community to put No guild dues on their guild ad one can infer that the concept of guild dues is far from being seen as a morally acceptable practice that the need to differentiate as morally superior is needed.

Devils advocacy for the sake of it is often tied to multiple events gone bad simply because the devils advocate found a sense of pride and uniqueness for their presumed "thinking outside the box". Distasteful practices need to be seen for what they are instead of a guise instilled by individuals who only make the practice seem acceptable by omitting key concepts that contribute to its controversial state. Thanks for your insight but it is not entirely without bias.

Dapper Dinosaur

@Brittany_Joy You can use all the big fancy words you want, you are as incorrect as one can possibly get on this subject.

Motherball

If its a good guild, I dont mind contributing. But the guild trader system is very convoluted and antiquated and could use an update, in my opinion.

Betsararie

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

INB4 people start to believe Blanco's statement

*pulls out popcorn and 3-D glasses

Just so you know, I'm in 3 major guilds in the main areas (mournhold, ralwk, elden root etc). I also would have access to likely a lot of others, just would need to ask. That's how I got into the ones I'm currently in.

I don't pay 1 gold to be in any of them. In fact, they don't even have a weekly sales requirement, they just have their inactive policies.

They also keep their traders every single week, and the same traders. Why, because they are able to raise enough money on their own (through various means) to fund their trader without ripping off their members.

I have jumped around between guilds and been in ones that charge dues, and ones that do not. There is no significant difference between the two types of guilds, and that includes in terms of total sales per week. One type of guild merely feels it appropriate to force their members to give them gold, a practice I am firmly against.

I am very happy with the guilds I'm currently in because in addition to having great communities, they don't rip off their members! Much better when you find the good ones, trust me.

maxjapank

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. This isn't nearly as widespread on PC as it is on consoles. On PC you can find many trade guilds without mandatory dues and I don't know of a single non-trade guild that requires any dues.

In most cases, it's not greed that drives these dues but the fact that guild traders have a high weekly upkeep cost. I've never known a trade guild GM that makes money off of running their guild. Many put much of their own personal in game wealth into growing the guild.

Do your research and find a guild that works for you. If you don't want to pay guild dues, that's fine, but understand fully why those dues are in place before automatically assuming it's corruption and greed which it is not 99 times out of 100.

Insightful but you completely ignored my question to push your own agenda/frustration on a concept.

But from the comment I was able to extract that guild dues exist because of the guild store costs. Which answers my question while defending the guild leaders right to extort players for gold... Are you a dunmer? Dunmer believe it is an inherent right to have slaves, but saying so for the sake of upkeep does not make it right.

@redspecter23 gave you a very informative answer. Don't know what else you expect. Guilds must bid on a guild trader / vendor, and some of the better locations like Rawl'kha can be very expensive. Bids can cost a guild millions of gold just for one week. So they depend on members selling, members donating, member-only auction events, members joining raffles, and yes, weekly dues.

I can understand a newer player's distaste at paying a trading guild weekly fees, but when my trading guild wins their bid, I make a ton of gold selling. And win they lose the location, my sales plummet. So over time, I have come to view weekly fees less as extorting, but more as appreciation for what the guild leaders provide for me.

Sounds like you got a case of Stockholm syndrome. Kidnapped people tend to develop an appreciation for the kidnappers deeds. Blink twice if you need help.

To be honest playing devil's advocate for a distasteful practice as annual extortion renamed to guild dues to appease the unwary does not exclude the fact it can still be seen as an act of greed. For the community to put No guild dues on their guild ad one can infer that the concept of guild dues is far from being seen as a morally acceptable practice that the need to differentiate as morally superior is needed.

Devils advocacy for the sake of it is often tied to multiple events gone bad simply because the devils advocate found a sense of pride and uniqueness for their presumed "thinking outside the box". Distasteful practices need to be seen for what they are instead of a guise instilled by individuals who only make the practice seem acceptable by omitting key concepts that contribute to its controversial state. Thanks for your insight but it is not entirely without bias.

Well, now you're just being an ass.