Why Do Guild Dues Exist?

MLGProPlayer

dainswulf wrote: »

It's a cyclical monster created by the players themselves. The game developers intention was probably that guilds would only spend their house cut of 3.5% each week to reserve trading spots, and the more successful guilds would inherit the better spots for 1-200k.

It doesn't matter what their "intention" was. They created an open market system. An open market, by its very definition, will breed competition.

MLGProPlayer

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever managed a trading guild? Of course you haven't, or you'd know how much it costs to bid on a trader each week.

geonsocal

ps4/na...

i'm in 4 guilds at the moment...2 of them are not very active in trading - however when I check the guild stores i can find great deals for myself...

one of them: traders refuge (AD) was the very first guild I joined ...great gm whom looks to help out beginning players...try to remember to donate gold and items each month...proud to still be a member...

another guild, primarily pvp oriented: sver true bloods (EP), just went to donation based - still gets very good trader locations throughout tamriel, and, i'm able to move a fair share of goods with them...happy to donate 10k a month...

last guild is a trading guild: back alley trading (AD)...60k a month guild fees...i'm not a big merchant type, but, I easily make back my 60k plus each month...

could find cheaper guilds, but, when I first began playing and barely had two gold coins to rub together - I had always wanted to be a member of this guild (great location: atin in wayrest)...

it was kind of a proclamation that i had finally "made it" - so, the 60k a month is very worth it to me...

i guess guild participation isn't always a straight economic decision...

MLGProPlayer

Armatesz wrote: »

I can safely say I have seen some of my friends join certain guilds that have dues and they pay their dues and they get told several times the same day and each time they paid extra, got one friend that literally paid 200k in dues and was kicked. He reported their guild for their actions. Does when you give money to a guild automatically show up or is there a delay?

There is a bug where your gold doesn't get deposited in the guild bank, but it gets removed from your account. It's pretty common. Support will refund the gold if you contact them.

WuffyCerulei

It's really only used by better trade guilds to keep their traders. Like my trading guild started having dues not that long ago because other guilds kept sniping our trader and bids were getting increasingly higher. Though, any pvp or pve guild that requires dues to stay in the guild are just being greedy.

MLGProPlayer

Armatesz wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Because the more desirable store front run into the millions to maintain/keep from getting outbid. Or so I've been told.

I've been told the same thing and I have often wondered if this is true or just full of it. I have wondered if it was appropriate to inquire about it or what I actually am aiming to figure out from this discussion.

It's 100% true. Bids in top trader locations require extremely high sales volume and/or fees, huge amounts of raffle and auction purchases, and even then, the bids aren't enough a lot times. The trader market is extremely competitive.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is talking out of their ass.

duendology

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The only trader locations that require high sales volume/guild dues are Rawl'kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, and Elden Root. Vivec City and Belkarth might require a small fee.

Other locations can get by with no fee because there is minimal competition for those traders.

One (requiring fee) is in Wayrest.. the other one in Rawi'kha. The one in Reaper's March does not require any fees...from what I've seen.. I sell stuff faster there... Irony...

Betsararie

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever managed a trading guild? Of course you haven't, or you'd know how much it costs to bid on a trader each week.

No and I don't want to.

What you're not getting is that there are plenty of trade guilds in the big locations (including rawlk and mournhold) that don't charge dues. I'm in them. They still maintain their trader every week. That is why you are getting ripped off badly when you pay your dues to your guilds every week. You keep paying those dues.

Elsonso

I have been in 16 guilds since launch and not one of them has charged any required Guild dues. This is cross platform, PC/NA and PS4/NA.

On the PC side, my first two guilds are dead, but here I found a really good trading guild. Still no guild dues, but they do have a raffle and would like tickets or substantial sales from guild members. Other people want in, so this makes sense. That was my third guild in this game and it turned out to be a good choice. I've gone through quite a few other guilds since then to fill out my dance card, but I have managed to infiltrate three trading guilds. None of them charge dues.

I have only two rules for guilds. They have to be focused on PVE. If they talk about how great the are in Cyrodiil, I am not interested. They cannot charge dues. If they charge dues, I don't even bother. There are just too many guilds out there that don't charge for me to waste my time with one that does.

idk

redspecter23 wrote: »

Guild dues should only be necessary for trade guilds and only for the better locations. .

Yes, and plenty of guilds on PC in good locations that do not have dues. Not sure what is happening on console but if guilds in secondary locations are charging dues the members have a say in that.

cbdfarm

Cubagaming wrote: »

cbdfarm wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

100 percent true. If you see a guild asking for dues, run far away, they are scammers. The leader usually keeps the left over money for him/herself while still asking for more to upgrade the guild house, its nothing but a scam, find a guild that doesnt try to extort you.

I personally would love to see a grand exchange(runescape style) trade system as the "guild traders" have always been *** in my eyes,spreading out trade driving prices up on items,even stuff like mats, it would be a welcome change in my eyes.

And you know this how?

Sweat mother of troll. I know because first hand experience. Its common practice, they make money off each trade, ask for more money as "dues" then request more money for their house, scam elsewhere.

smacx250

I'm in just one trade guild now - a really good one. I've been in it for years, and I'm happy to pay dues. No, I want to! I pay at least 5x the requirement every week, and even though I don't focus on "trading" anymore (I have in the past, and many in the guild do as their main focus of the game), the dues are much less than I make in sales (the guild is unbelievably reliable at getting a great trader, and the store is always stocked with loads of good stuff - customers love it). I've been in and out of a few other trade guilds. Ridden some until they were dead, and then some. Bottom line is that you can't tell good from bad by if they require dues or not - it is about if you feel good about being there and if they are enhancing your enjoyment of the game.

There are loads of previous posts that accurately explain why dues are needed for top trade guilds. The decision you need to make is if these guilds are what you are looking for in the game, or not. Probably the best way to decide is to join and see what they are like - you can always bail at any time.

LiquidPony

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The math doesn’t seem to add up to me. Dues plus sales should be more than an adequate amount of gold.

Every GM seems to be playing tiny violins which makes me raise an eyebrow.

I’ll withhold judgment since I’m quite happy with my one trade guild, and one donation guild.

If the math "doesn't add up" to you, then you can't do basic arithmetic.

As simply as possible:

A trader in a good location (and remember: location, location, location) will cost anywhere from 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 gold (on XB1) per week. Let's go in the middle and say the average cost is 7.5 million for a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold or something along those lines.

The guild cut of a sale is 3.5%. Let's imagine a very high volume trader that does 50,000,000 gold in sales every week. That's 1.75 million that the guild takes in from their cut of sales.

Now we've got 500 members. If they're paying 10,000 gold in weekly dues, and we get 100% payment rate (which never happens, obviously, but we'll pretend it does for the sake of this example), that's 5 million gold.

Dues: 5,000,000
Tax: 1,750,000
Total: 6,750,000

... but our trader bid was 7,500,000! So we just took a loss even in this fantasy world where we're doing 50,000,000 in sales per week and getting 100% payment from our members.

LiquidPony

lordrichter wrote: »

I have been in 16 guilds since launch and not one of them has charged any required Guild dues. This is cross platform, PC/NA and PS4/NA.

On the PC side, my first two guilds are dead, but here I found a really good trading guild. Still no guild dues, but they do have a raffle and would like tickets or substantial sales from guild members. Other people want in, so this makes sense. That was my third guild in this game and it turned out to be a good choice. I've gone through quite a few other guilds since then to fill out my dance card, but I have managed to infiltrate three trading guilds. None of them charge dues.

I have only two rules for guilds. They have to be focused on PVE. If they talk about how great the are in Cyrodiil, I am not interested. They cannot charge dues. If they charge dues, I don't even bother. There are just too many guilds out there that don't charge for me to waste my time with one that does.

Well your traders on PS4 are probably either in undesirable locations or have extraordinarily wealthy benefactors, then.

On XB1, the guilds that consistently maintain traders in the good spots (typically Rawl'kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, Elden Root, and maybe Belkarth) all charge dues as far as I'm aware and have been doing so for about as long as I can remember. Most have gone up to 10,000 gold per week now, but some still stick to 5,000 (usually the consortiums who also have traders elsewhere and subsidize the cost of their prime locations with dues from traders in cheaper locations).

Bax

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Oh well at least some ethical guilds still exist. I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

Sorry, but even if you are super casual, I can make 10k just by running daily pladges and NPC all the gears. Or just go fishing. Getting one perfect roe will pay you those fees and you need like 30 minutes max to get at least one and it's also completely solo friendly activity (not sure how expensive it is on consoles, but on PC they are 10k+). I am in trading guild which requires just 1k donation (and you get into gold raffle as a bonus). I am selling (just casually) better drops I get sometimes or if I get a lot of pieces of some material. I still try to pay more than required because even by playing casually, I benefit from the guild store quite significantly. Making money in ESO is incredibly easy even if you are casual and guildless and making 10k is question of an hour max even for a casual solo player if they dedicate few minutes of their time to that. And even if they don't, they should not have a problem to get such amount of money in a whole week anyway. And as someone mentioned before, if you are unable to make such money, you don't need top spot trading guild anyway. Look for some casual trading guilds or social guilds without store.

Buffler

LiquidPony wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I have been in 16 guilds since launch and not one of them has charged any required Guild dues. This is cross platform, PC/NA and PS4/NA.

On the PC side, my first two guilds are dead, but here I found a really good trading guild. Still no guild dues, but they do have a raffle and would like tickets or substantial sales from guild members. Other people want in, so this makes sense. That was my third guild in this game and it turned out to be a good choice. I've gone through quite a few other guilds since then to fill out my dance card, but I have managed to infiltrate three trading guilds. None of them charge dues.

I have only two rules for guilds. They have to be focused on PVE. If they talk about how great the are in Cyrodiil, I am not interested. They cannot charge dues. If they charge dues, I don't even bother. There are just too many guilds out there that don't charge for me to waste my time with one that does.

Well your traders on PS4 are probably either in undesirable locations or have extraordinarily wealthy benefactors, then.

On XB1, the guilds that consistently maintain traders in the good spots (typically Rawl'kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, Elden Root, and maybe Belkarth) all charge dues as far as I'm aware and have been doing so for about as long as I can remember. Most have gone up to 10,000 gold per week now, but some still stick to 5,000 (usually the consortiums who also have traders elsewhere and subsidize the cost of their prime locations with dues from traders in cheaper locations).

Just for clarification, the xbox guilds you talk about are only xbox na as no xbox eu guild charges dues.

Taleof2Cities

Linaleah wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

Ok so instead of being helpful and simply answering my initial question, you tell me to "join one myself to find out." Thanks...?

Sometimes it’s better to experience something first-hand ... rather than just spoon-feeding knowledge.

a vague answer to hide the fact that.. you have no answer. but I can give you the answer. top sellers subsidize the rest, raffles and donations are strongly encouraged, and GM's likely still add gold to the pot out of their own pocket.

I'm happy in my trade guilds that have no required dues. If you don't have the time to grab an invite and try it, that isn't going to bother me.

maxjapank

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

Ok so instead of being helpful and simply answering my initial question, you tell me to "join one myself to find out." Thanks...?

Sometimes it’s better to experience something first-hand ... rather than just spoon-feeding knowledge.

a vague answer to hide the fact that.. you have no answer. but I can give you the answer. top sellers subsidize the rest, raffles and donations are strongly encouraged, and GM's likely still add gold to the pot out of their own pocket.

I'm happy in my trade guilds that have no required dues. If you don't have the time to grab an invite and try it, that isn't going to bother me.

Sorry. Just a question, but do you have a weekly sales minimum you have to meet?

Blackleopardex

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

I can tell you have never been a officer or guild-master of a trading guild with a good location...

Dysprosium

It's pretty simple. Guild traders cost a pile of money MANY MANY millions.

Some guilds collect dues to ensure they make sufficient money to keep their trader, some have minimums for sales/or you pay dues, some have contests and raffles or combos there-of.

Not all have dues but then be prepared to meet sales quotas. There are guilds for everyone.
Running a guild is a lot of hard thankless work so, unless you're prepared to put in some time to help, then drop complaints and put forth a bit of your gold.

If the guild has a good trader, it shouldn't take much to come up with a bit of money to help keep the trader for the next week. Sadly most do not carry their weight, and freeload when there aren't dues.

Blackleopardex

Dysprosium wrote: »

It's pretty simple. Guild traders cost a pile of money MANY MANY millions.

Some guilds collect dues to ensure they make sufficient money to keep their trader, some have minimums for sales/or you pay dues, some have contests and raffles or combos there-of.

Not all have dues but then be prepared to meet sales quotas. There are guilds for everyone.
Running a guild is a lat of hard thankless work so, unless you're prepared to put in some time to help, then drop complaints and put forth a bit of your gold.

If the guild has a good trader, it should take much to come up with a bit of money to help keep the trader for the next week. Sadly most do not carry their weight, and freeload when there aren't dues.

This guy gets it! ^^

oXI_Viper_IXo

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

Ok so instead of being helpful and simply answering my initial question, you tell me to "join one myself to find out." Thanks...?

Sometimes it’s better to experience something first-hand ... rather than just spoon-feeding knowledge.

a vague answer to hide the fact that.. you have no answer. but I can give you the answer. top sellers subsidize the rest, raffles and donations are strongly encouraged, and GM's likely still add gold to the pot out of their own pocket.

I'm happy in my trade guilds that have no required dues. If you don't have the time to grab an invite and try it, that isn't going to bother me.

All these wonderful, benevolent guilds with prime locations you speak of must all be on PC. You say to just "grab an invite and try it" like it's so easy to do, yet I've never seen a guild on Xbox with a good location that didn't charge any dues. What are the names of your amazing guilds so at least people on PC can "grab an invite and try it" and learn the ways of the dues-free traders since you refuse to answer my simple question?

IcyDeadPeople

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.

Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?

The 3% tax from sales in the guild store is never enough to cover cost of trader bid.

Only way to pay for the trader spot is either voluntary donations and raffle tickets or required weekly dues.

On console I believe most trading guilds charge dues because there are no add ons to track raffle ticket deposits or weekly sales.

AtraisMachina2

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.

Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?

Hahhahahahahahahahahaha. At least you care about the game you play i guess. Lol

AtraisMachina2

Blanco wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

INB4 people start to believe Blanco's statement

*pulls out popcorn and 3-D glasses

Just so you know, I'm in 3 major guilds in the main areas (mournhold, ralwk, elden root etc). I also would have access to likely a lot of others, just would need to ask. That's how I got into the ones I'm currently in.

I don't pay 1 gold to be in any of them. In fact, they don't even have a weekly sales requirement, they just have their inactive policies.

They also keep their traders every single week, and the same traders. Why, because they are able to raise enough money on their own (through various means) to fund their trader without ripping off their members.

I have jumped around between guilds and been in ones that charge dues, and ones that do not. There is no significant difference between the two types of guilds, and that includes in terms of total sales per week. One type of guild merely feels it appropriate to force their members to give them gold, a practice I am firmly against.

I am very happy with the guilds I'm currently in because in addition to having great communities, they don't rip off their members! Much better when you find the good ones, trust me.

Nope. Every capital trader has a due. This guys is lying terribly

Dysprosium

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

This concept of guild dues is new to me. I honestly think guild dues paint the community of ESO in a bad light and it deters casual players from a good trading experience.

Not even elite guilds in wow have guild dues except for skill requirements. This monthly/weekly Guild Dues for being in a guild just showcases the greed in the community and prevents casual players from the full guild store experience. So what is the cause for the influx of distasteful greed known as guild dues that average a cost of 6k weekly just to be in a guild?

If a guild has an amazing trader, making enough money so that you can come up with 6k should be so easy. Traders cost money. For a trade guild, having a good trader is the primary goal of the guild and it should also be the goal of every guildee- location does matter, and prime locations earn great money for the guildees in fast profitable sales.

How do you propose trading guilds ensure they have sufficient funds to maintain a good trader? As stated earlier- amazing locations can cost many many millions per week, and the 3.5% from the sale (guilds don't get the listing fees those vanish) isn't enough. You have a complaint but do you have a solution?

Buffler

As i mentioned earlier, not one trade guild on xbox eu charges any sort of fee, some have voluntary raffles every now and again. We rely on sales tax, kind donations and our own gold to secure traders every week. We also work dam hard with other trade guild gm's to try and stop the need for weekly dues and so far we've been successful. Sometimes, new or guilds not in our "trade guild union" pop up and rock the boat as they dont realise what happens behind the scenes. Its very tough as prices are getting higher and higher in capitol cities......lets see what happens.

Betsararie

AtraisMachina2 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

INB4 people start to believe Blanco's statement

*pulls out popcorn and 3-D glasses

Just so you know, I'm in 3 major guilds in the main areas (mournhold, ralwk, elden root etc). I also would have access to likely a lot of others, just would need to ask. That's how I got into the ones I'm currently in.

I don't pay 1 gold to be in any of them. In fact, they don't even have a weekly sales requirement, they just have their inactive policies.

They also keep their traders every single week, and the same traders. Why, because they are able to raise enough money on their own (through various means) to fund their trader without ripping off their members.

I have jumped around between guilds and been in ones that charge dues, and ones that do not. There is no significant difference between the two types of guilds, and that includes in terms of total sales per week. One type of guild merely feels it appropriate to force their members to give them gold, a practice I am firmly against.

I am very happy with the guilds I'm currently in because in addition to having great communities, they don't rip off their members! Much better when you find the good ones, trust me.

Nope. Every capital trader has a due. This guys is lying terribly

Then why is the guild I'm in in mournhold that was formerly in rawlkha HAVE NO DUES?? Your post and assertion are beyond ridiculous and aren't even close to worth my time.

Don't bother responding to my posts anymore.

Cubagaming

PC is different due to add-ons folks. Xbox and PS4 is completely different.

For those that say you don't pay dues, someone does pay them for ya, in one way or another. When that person or group of people decide not to donate as much due to life, not farming much, etc, you better be ready cuz you got to pick up the slack. The whole point of dues is so everyone picks up the slack to get a trader. I've seen what happens first hand to guilds that don't charge, but they have a select number of people that put out, they leave and the guild falls apart because you as a seller, don't care to pay your share.

Idk who someone traded with and they think that guildmasters rip people off money and such, that's not true. Hell, my husband gets mad at me because I do giveaways almost weekly and I hand out gold mats, flowers, costume runeboxes, psijics 50% and 150%, the psijic recipe, furniture and whatever you can think of.


Just because you had one bad experience doesn't mean that all the guild masters are like that.

Jpk0012

Only trader guilds have guild dues due to the fact that they need to bid on trader stalls.

Once you start trading, and then lose your popular spot then you'll understand why its not a problem to pay 10K in dues. And you will quit trader guilds that can't keep a good spot. Its just a simple fact to sell the most and to sell those expensive items you're going to be paying 7-10K in dues.

I am a little shocked the PC guilds don't have this... You can't expect one person to carry the burden of paying for a good trader stall. Or perhaps its just the mentality difference of the players - no right or wrong.

If you're upset with ESO auction system, then that is one thing. I agree its a joke, and there should just be an auction house that we can all sell at. But to say a guild is greedy for trying to pay for a good trader stall just shows your ignorance of ESO.