Why Do Guild Dues Exist?

Prof_Bawbag

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The math doesn’t seem to add up to me. Dues plus sales should be more than an adequate amount of gold.

Every GM seems to be playing tiny violins which makes me raise an eyebrow.

I’ll withhold judgment since I’m quite happy with my one trade guild, and one donation guild.

If the math "doesn't add up" to you, then you can't do basic arithmetic.

As simply as possible:

A trader in a good location (and remember: location, location, location) will cost anywhere from 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 gold (on XB1) per week. Let's go in the middle and say the average cost is 7.5 million for a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold or something along those lines.

The guild cut of a sale is 3.5%. Let's imagine a very high volume trader that does 50,000,000 gold in sales every week. That's 1.75 million that the guild takes in from their cut of sales.

Now we've got 500 members. If they're paying 10,000 gold in weekly dues, and we get 100% payment rate (which never happens, obviously, but we'll pretend it does for the sake of this example), that's 5 million gold.

Dues: 5,000,000
Tax: 1,750,000
Total: 6,750,000

... but our trader bid was 7,500,000! So we just took a loss even in this fantasy world where we're doing 50,000,000 in sales per week and getting 100% payment from our members.

That’s great and all but we don’t really know the bid figures or sales data. Some of these guilds get donations on top of dues, and stacks of gold and rare materials magically “donated” and raffles.

How many other guild spots are also purchased with the “phantom traders” that magically change over night?

I’ve looked at the deposit/transaction histories in the past. I certainly have more questions than answers.

Some of those magically appearing materials etc are given by donators. I know I've donated craft tables, rare and expensive writ voucher plans, robust dummies etc etc. I have never ran a guild on PS4, so I can't exactly be up to anything dodgy. I also suspect there are many, many other people out there who are mere members of trade guilds, but think of others more than what they can get out of the guild.

Lets be honest too. A high population guild also attracts people who will expect free crafting, again, it's something some people will do. A lot of people are willing to take, take and take yet more from guilds and give absolutely nothing back to the guild. Those are the people who are usually the first to moan about having to pay dues. A lot of the large guilds can be more about the members within that guild than the actual GM running it.

Tan9oSuccka

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The math doesn’t seem to add up to me. Dues plus sales should be more than an adequate amount of gold.

Every GM seems to be playing tiny violins which makes me raise an eyebrow.

I’ll withhold judgment since I’m quite happy with my one trade guild, and one donation guild.

If the math "doesn't add up" to you, then you can't do basic arithmetic.

As simply as possible:

A trader in a good location (and remember: location, location, location) will cost anywhere from 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 gold (on XB1) per week. Let's go in the middle and say the average cost is 7.5 million for a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold or something along those lines.

The guild cut of a sale is 3.5%. Let's imagine a very high volume trader that does 50,000,000 gold in sales every week. That's 1.75 million that the guild takes in from their cut of sales.

Now we've got 500 members. If they're paying 10,000 gold in weekly dues, and we get 100% payment rate (which never happens, obviously, but we'll pretend it does for the sake of this example), that's 5 million gold.

Dues: 5,000,000
Tax: 1,750,000
Total: 6,750,000

... but our trader bid was 7,500,000! So we just took a loss even in this fantasy world where we're doing 50,000,000 in sales per week and getting 100% payment from our members.

That’s great and all but we don’t really know the bid figures or sales data. Some of these guilds get donations on top of dues, and stacks of gold and rare materials magically “donated” and raffles.

How many other guild spots are also purchased with the “phantom traders” that magically change over night?

I’ve looked at the deposit/transaction histories in the past. I certainly have more questions than answers.

Some of those magically appearing materials etc are given by donators. I know I've donated craft tables, rare and expensive writ voucher plans, robust dummies etc etc. I have never ran a guild on PS4, so I can't exactly be up to anything dodgy. I also suspect there are many, many other people out there who are mere members of trade guilds, but think of others more than what they can get out of the guild.

Lets be honest too. A high population guild also attracts people who will expect free crafting, again, it's something some people will do. A lot of people are willing to take, take and take yet more from guilds and give absolutely nothing back to the guild. Those are the people who are usually the first to moan about having to pay dues. A lot of the large guilds can be more about the members within that guild than the actual GM running it.

That’s great that you donate those things. Having loyal guild members who contribute is awesome. I’m not saying all GMs or members are shady.

But four donated stacks of fortified nirncux is something completely different.

Ohtimbar

Armatesz wrote: »

Now here is a curious question for you gm out there that have to get a guildstore secured every weekend: Does it stress you out not knowing if you are having enough to secure a spot or unsure if you have enough to secure a spot? What compels you to get a guildstore in the first place? Do the people that utilize it feel appreciative over it?

It can be stressful, but I think running a trade guild is a meta game within ESO, focused on competition between guilds, between players in guilds, or as social hubs that keeps the game interesting after the quests, dungeons and trials have grown stale. Do people appreciate it? Some do, and they tend to be generous with donations and in weekly raffles.

MercTheMage

ETU offers me a great trader in a well established guild, a guild house with every single set crafting station in the game, every mundus stone, and beautiful island weather. So if they want a small donation of 10k from me...

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Buffler wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

Now here is a curious question for you gm out there that have to get a guildstore secured every weekend: Does it stress you out not knowing if you are having enough to secure a spot or unsure if you have enough to secure a spot? What compels you to get a guildstore in the first place? Do the people that utilize it feel appreciative over it?

Trader flip time is the worst! As i do the bidding on the 3 guilds me and my 2 friends run Its nerve wracking hoping you've put enough on or you hear whispers through the week of new trade guilds who want to take you out because your such a well known trade guild. Then, if you do lose you know you need to ramp the bid up to insane levels the following week! I dread flip time, i dunno if my heart can keep taking it!

Totally agree!!^^^
At one time I was bidding for 3 guilds, so I share your pain. The worst is when you lose a trader, and next's week isn't big enough and lose again, wait till next week, bid HUGE, maybe get it back. And if you lose again, you have 400-500 people cussing you for not having a trader for 3+ weeks.
Also, there was a period after Vvardenfell that I put in over 1 million of my own gold just to insure we could cover the bids for a few weeks until donations got our bank back up.
Yes, my guildies by and far appreciate that we have a trader, and my guild is just a social guild. I only keep a trader as a plus for my guild mates. They show it by donating almost enough gold to maintain our trader and donate Master Writs for the guild hall.

Tetrafy

Im not really sure if this system is much better than an auction house. Its pretty hard to make money in this game. An auction house (ffxiv) if you follow the market you can make millions and items sell. Its a ton of work to make less than 100k gold.

Mirelurk

I'm in three big trading guilds with prime location traders and I pay fees to them each week.

It's not compulsory, but I choose to do it to keep the guilds' finances healthy and I get far more value back from them than I pay out.

I couldn't care less if the guild masters are making profits. I doubt they are, but in any case I'm getting fantastic value for what it costs me each week.

Betsararie

Tetrafy wrote: »

Im not really sure if this system is much better than an auction house. Its pretty hard to make money in this game. An auction house (ffxiv) if you follow the market you can make millions and items sell. Its a ton of work to make less than 100k gold.

It's definitely not that hard to make money in this game, but any system that forces you to pay a weekly fee merely to be able to sell items has some kinks that need to be worked out. And on top of that, if you aren't in a guild in one of the major cities you won't be selling hardly anything at all.

An auction house system definitely makes more sense. One wonders who even came up with the current system in place, though I will say I'm not currently negatively impacted by it.

zaria

Tetrafy wrote: »

Im not really sure if this system is much better than an auction house. Its pretty hard to make money in this game. An auction house (ffxiv) if you follow the market you can make millions and items sell. Its a ton of work to make less than 100k gold.

How, an action house make the prices totally transparent.
Yes its easier to sell, just underbid all others and hope others don't underbid you.
In short if supply is higher than demand prices will go down fast.
As you have 30 to 50 slots to sell with only you need to move stuff fast.

Now you get the opposite effect of rare items, here you can let the auction system do its work.
its also easier to dominate the marked for an high demand but cheap item like an alchemy ingredient .

Samwell Slayer

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Oh well at least some ethical guilds still exist. I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

Guild traders don't buy themselves. Trading guilds have to earn that money somehow to stay in the market. Guilds will often do raffles or events to earn money through ticket sales so they can procure these better locations, but people still paid money to make this happen. I prefer paying dues because it balances out for fairness and contribution sake.

Since paying a guild trader is a money sink (the money is gone from the game, it does not go to other players), people pay guild fees because they pay guild fees. If everybody guild charged guild fees, every build would need to charge more guild fees to compete since, again, that money is gone from the game.

Conversely, if everybody refused to pay guild fees, we'd have more money, and there would be EXACTLY as many traders posted in the same locations, obviously. Fun to see simple game theory in action.

Armatesz

Either way with guild traders and auction houses. System is flawed either way. Point can be to make it easier and less stressful for others. What other system could be implemented to make the game less stressful for others?

Prof_Bawbag

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The math doesn’t seem to add up to me. Dues plus sales should be more than an adequate amount of gold.

Every GM seems to be playing tiny violins which makes me raise an eyebrow.

I’ll withhold judgment since I’m quite happy with my one trade guild, and one donation guild.

If the math "doesn't add up" to you, then you can't do basic arithmetic.

As simply as possible:

A trader in a good location (and remember: location, location, location) will cost anywhere from 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 gold (on XB1) per week. Let's go in the middle and say the average cost is 7.5 million for a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold or something along those lines.

The guild cut of a sale is 3.5%. Let's imagine a very high volume trader that does 50,000,000 gold in sales every week. That's 1.75 million that the guild takes in from their cut of sales.

Now we've got 500 members. If they're paying 10,000 gold in weekly dues, and we get 100% payment rate (which never happens, obviously, but we'll pretend it does for the sake of this example), that's 5 million gold.

Dues: 5,000,000
Tax: 1,750,000
Total: 6,750,000

... but our trader bid was 7,500,000! So we just took a loss even in this fantasy world where we're doing 50,000,000 in sales per week and getting 100% payment from our members.

That’s great and all but we don’t really know the bid figures or sales data. Some of these guilds get donations on top of dues, and stacks of gold and rare materials magically “donated” and raffles.

How many other guild spots are also purchased with the “phantom traders” that magically change over night?

I’ve looked at the deposit/transaction histories in the past. I certainly have more questions than answers.

Some of those magically appearing materials etc are given by donators. I know I've donated craft tables, rare and expensive writ voucher plans, robust dummies etc etc. I have never ran a guild on PS4, so I can't exactly be up to anything dodgy. I also suspect there are many, many other people out there who are mere members of trade guilds, but think of others more than what they can get out of the guild.

Lets be honest too. A high population guild also attracts people who will expect free crafting, again, it's something some people will do. A lot of people are willing to take, take and take yet more from guilds and give absolutely nothing back to the guild. Those are the people who are usually the first to moan about having to pay dues. A lot of the large guilds can be more about the members within that guild than the actual GM running it.

That’s great that you donate those things. Having loyal guild members who contribute is awesome. I’m not saying all GMs or members are shady.

But four donated stacks of fortified nirncux is something completely different.

Yeah, there are some questionable GM's and no one can really argue about that. There's some on the PS4 EU server and everyone knows who they are and if people are willing to trust them with anything, then that's on them. I have been a member of one of those guilds and left within a short time frame as it was obvious the person running the show was out for himself and no one else.

Some of the best guilds I've been in have been more about the people within those guilds than the actual people running the guilds. Though, it helped that the people running them were always pleasant and helpful themselves.

Another problem that plagues the PS4 EU server is almost every guild, regardless of their set up (trials, 4th rate trader locations at best etc) always ask for a fee. I'm not saying those non trading guilds are up to no good, I'm saying they seem to think it's just the done thing when it's obvious the guild isn't set up properly to start making demands that people should pay a flat 5k fee when there's little or no hope you can even make sales to justify even that 5k fee. In those guilds I tend to just list my trash items such as green housing plans and cheap motif pages. I'm lucky if i make 4k from them.

silvermistktralasub17_ESO

I can say that neither of my trade guilds actually requires dues, though donations are suggested. There has been talk on both of them off and on about requiring weekly dues, but it hasn't been necessary yet. However, I can tell you what goes into making those not require 'dues'. My lesser trade guild gets 3k a week from me in addition to any fees from things I've traded over the week. My primary trade guild has me supplying large quantities of provisioning (usually), alchemy (usually), and red-level mats on a weekly basis for the auction. I also tend to donate a full set of glass motif chapters every month or so, gold tempers every 2-3 weeks, and every week I put together a themed furnishing lot for the auction. That is in addition to 1k in raffle tickets I buy, and the fact that I trade gold tempers to one of the guild masters regularly for attunable tables (to make a secondary guild house) since others in the guild often donate master writs they don't want to complete. Those master writs give our guild master an opportunity to sell things like those attunable tables for decent gold, all going toward the guild trader. On the other hand, that guild alone is pretty well equipped. Our primary guild house has every craftable set's tables, all mundus stones, and the transmute station already. So, when you're paying dues for a good guild, also consider what other amenities the guild offers besides the trader, because a lot of them offer other amenities as well.

Alassirana
(PC/NA Guilds: Sneakybo (the big guild), and ExSOGold).

{ps, any members of ExSO Gold who want to are able to visit my personal house, which has all of the attunable stations in reverse alphabetical order up to Spectre's Eye, put in today).

Psycho_Wes

My guild dues are 10k a week and im fine paying it since we have the same trader in Belkarth every single week. And im not a broke ***.

Indaghdha

I don't mind paying a vigg to be in a good trading guild at all. I was invited to a couple guilds a few months ago, and have already seen a 3,000,000 increase of gold in my inventory. Well worth it.

Psycho_Wes

Psycho_Wes wrote: »

My guild dues are 10k a week and im fine paying it since we have the same trader in Belkarth every single week. And im not a broke ***.

And also, if you are in trading guilds that dont require dues and youre constantly selling stuff in them but dont aleast donate once in awhile, whats that say about you?

disintegr8

Dues should only be necessary for trading guilds. There is no reason for a non trading guild to require gold.

starkerealm

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I have never, ever been in a guild with dues, and I've been in guilds with traders in all the big spots.

At the moment I'm in trade guilds in Belkarth and Mournhold, decent locations, zero dues.

Oh well at least some ethical guilds still exist. I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

Guild traders don't buy themselves. Trading guilds have to earn that money somehow to stay in the market. Guilds will often do raffles or events to earn money through ticket sales so they can procure these better locations, but people still paid money to make this happen. I prefer paying dues because it balances out for fairness and contribution sake.

Honestly, I prefer raffles, though sales quotas are another option.

starkerealm

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The math doesn’t seem to add up to me. Dues plus sales should be more than an adequate amount of gold.

Every GM seems to be playing tiny violins which makes me raise an eyebrow.

I’ll withhold judgment since I’m quite happy with my one trade guild, and one donation guild.

If the math "doesn't add up" to you, then you can't do basic arithmetic.

As simply as possible:

A trader in a good location (and remember: location, location, location) will cost anywhere from 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 gold (on XB1) per week. Let's go in the middle and say the average cost is 7.5 million for a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold or something along those lines.

The guild cut of a sale is 3.5%. Let's imagine a very high volume trader that does 50,000,000 gold in sales every week. That's 1.75 million that the guild takes in from their cut of sales.

Now we've got 500 members. If they're paying 10,000 gold in weekly dues, and we get 100% payment rate (which never happens, obviously, but we'll pretend it does for the sake of this example), that's 5 million gold.

Dues: 5,000,000
Tax: 1,750,000
Total: 6,750,000

... but our trader bid was 7,500,000! So we just took a loss even in this fantasy world where we're doing 50,000,000 in sales per week and getting 100% payment from our members.

That’s great and all but we don’t really know the bid figures or sales data. Some of these guilds get donations on top of dues, and stacks of gold and rare materials magically “donated” and raffles.

How many other guild spots are also purchased with the “phantom traders” that magically change over night?

I’ve looked at the deposit/transaction histories in the past. I certainly have more questions than answers.

This last bit is why you'll often see guilds being really cagey about how much they bid. There used to be plenty of incidents where someone would join a trade guild, specifically to see how much they were bidding, then outbid them with a sockpuppet guild, then sell off the location to another guild at a profit.

Not, you know, recently, as the bidding has become less transparent and that info is no longer available to most rank and file members. However, this used to be a real concern, as the bid info was completely open to all members.

xIRONxHULKx911

I'm on Xbox NA and paying 10k dues for mournhold is 100% ok with me considering how much our gm does for us.We haven't lost a bid, all crafting stations including new ones day 1 of release, all mundus stones, dummies, banker, merchant the time and effort she puts into everything we have is well worth it to me.

xIRONxHULKx911

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

I own eso on pc and Xbox. On Xbox all I see is guild dues of 6k-10k. Currently I am guildless because the requirements are too high for a casual player like me.

But I do have a guild without dues that has a trader it's more of a social guild and pretty relaxed. I can get you in it if you'd like.

Easily_Lost

I am coming a bit late to the discussion.
I am part of 3 Trade Guilds. Each has a min of 5,000 gold sales / week or 5,000 gold raffle tickets / week.
I always give 10,000 gold each week to each, so I don't have to worry about meeting sales requirements each week. I always have more sales that what I pay in 'dues'.

I may not be the sharpest tack in the drawer, but if I am making more profit than what I pay in 'dues' I don't worry if my GM's are taking money. And if they are it is small compensation for the hours they put in to run the guild.

CyborgPlatypus

It's a gold sink. It stops prices being too high for newbies.

nnargun

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

This is such BS...^^^^

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

People that know nothing about running a trade guild should keep their mouth shut and stop saying it's greed and nothing more. You try taking a trader in the middle of Mournhold without MILLIONS of gold.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

The reason dues are required for massive trader guilds is just so they can continue to function. You can VERY easily make your weekly deposit back and then some by selling even one item in the store for over 5k or whatever your due is, then everything after that is straight profit..

Totally agree....^^^^
Lets break this down shall we? Lets take a guild that has NO dues, requirements, etc.. They have a trader in Mournhold..
It takes 5-7 million gold a week for a spot.
Guild makes 3.5% tax on sales off trader.
Said guild would have to sell $1,500,500,000g a week to keep the trader at 3.5% tax.

Enough said. Any one who says guilds that charge dues are just so the GM's can get rich has never run a guild.
Granted, I have 2 large trade guilds and a mid size trade guild. Non have mandatory dues, but the guildies are more than happy to donate on their own, have raffles, have auctions, what ever it takes to make enough to keep our trader.

Plan on starting your own trade guild? Plan on using up to a million+ a month in gold of YOUR own gold to support it!
Huzzah!!

This number looks way too big

Varana

Armatesz wrote: »

Either way with guild traders and auction houses. System is flawed either way. Point can be to make it easier and less stressful for others. What other system could be implemented to make the game less stressful for others?

As others have pointed out already, a nice side-effect of the system is that it's also a self-adapting gold sink. It's not ZOS that sets prices, it's some form of the market itself. They don't have to upset players by raising prices to keep up with inflation, the system does that on its own. It continuously un-prints money.

JKorr

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

That’s great and all but we don’t really know the bid figures or sales data. Some of these guilds get donations on top of dues, and stacks of gold and rare materials magically “donated” and raffles.

How many other guild spots are also purchased with the “phantom traders” that magically change over night?

I’ve looked at the deposit/transaction histories in the past. I certainly have more questions than answers.

The trading guild I'm in doesn't require dues, but does ask for support through a raffle and auction. The gm doesn't require donations from members for them; majority of the stuff in the raffle and auction are provided by the officers of the guild and the affiliated sister guilds. Of course they won't turn down items freely given. I appreciate the work the gm and officers put in, and the fact that the guild normally gets a trader in a good spot. Since I don't make trading my main focus, I don't have the gold I would need to outbid some of the more trading focused guildies in the normal auction [two auctions, one "poor player's" that has good stuff starting at lower prices] I've done farming runs or decided to dedicate a day to farming for items to donate. Two full sets [light and heavy [working on the nirncrux for medium] of nirnhoned armor for research, a full set of nirnhoned weapons, gold tempers I get that day from refining raw mats, master writs, ambrosia, purple plans/blueprints/recipes I get from turning in master writs.... That is after I buy the raffle tickets.

There are good guildmasters out there. Its kind of up to the player to decide if the gm is exploiting the guild and taking advantage of the members or not though. Some gms might be. However I don't believe a blanket statement like "all of them are scammers out to fleece the guild members" is accurate.

Riverspirit

None of my guilds have "dues" but they do have requirements. I support all of my guilds, I participate in raffles and auctions and I go way above and beyond the reqs. My guilds provide a service to me, and allow me to trade and sell effectively. People need to support their guilds to allow them to be successful. Sometimes I even win the raffle, so that is always a nice surprise and it helps offset what I donate.

Eiagra

My personal experiences from PC/NA... I had joined a trade guild with a pretty good location around mid-level (20-39ish), and at that time I wasn't making a great deal of gold. This guild had what I considered reasonable requirements -- log in every week, and either buy a 1000g raffle ticket or make something like 5000g in sales or something. I forget the exact sales figure. At that time, I didn't have an easy way to sell of some of the stuff that others would find useful, but I didn't need. It worked out for me, and I made a good amount of coin -- nothing stellar, but good for that level at that time, and it was easy to buy a raffle ticket.

Real life started taking over, so I couldn't login every week. Spoke with the GM, and they were fine with me returning whenever, which I appreciated. The guild's chat and raffles were fun, there were a lot of giveaways, and overall it was a good experience. Just one that required a commitment (albeit a small one).

Eventually, I did join another trade guild, once I was able to get back in game more. There were no requirements outside of logging in once a week, but I'm also not trading very much, so the more casual nature meets my needs. It sometimes takes longer for me to sell items, but I'm okay with that since I'm not an active trader.

Overall, I understand the logistics behind this. In essence, it's a business model. Trade guilds' core functions are business -- not camaraderie. That sometimes requires an investment of some form to keep things running smoothly, be it from a few very rich and powerful members, or from a large group of members with fewer individual resources.

The model seems to work. If you're very good at trading, you can become very good at making gold and get a good return on your investment. If you're casual about it, it's just a useful tool for making a bit of gold, but there's still a need to invest something. There's enough variety of guilds out there to find whatever fits your particular needs.

I believe it's unfair to paint ALL trade guilds, especially successful ones, with a "greed and corruption" paintbrush just because of a poor experience from particular guilds or platforms. Maybe there's just something you aren't seeing yet.

Armatesz

Psycho_Wes wrote: »

My guild dues are 10k a week and im fine paying it since we have the same trader in Belkarth every single week. And im not a broke ***.

I'm not broke either but I am not a part of any guild currently and don't go selling stuff to make ends meet.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

nnargun wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

It's just a way to take advantage of members. None of the guilds that ask for dues actually need them to keep their trader or to keep the guild running. It's just a form extortion really , oftentimes for the benefit of RL $$.

This is such BS...^^^^

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

People that know nothing about running a trade guild should keep their mouth shut and stop saying it's greed and nothing more. You try taking a trader in the middle of Mournhold without MILLIONS of gold.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

The reason dues are required for massive trader guilds is just so they can continue to function. You can VERY easily make your weekly deposit back and then some by selling even one item in the store for over 5k or whatever your due is, then everything after that is straight profit..

Totally agree....^^^^
Lets break this down shall we? Lets take a guild that has NO dues, requirements, etc.. They have a trader in Mournhold..
It takes 5-7 million gold a week for a spot.
Guild makes 3.5% tax on sales off trader.
Said guild would have to sell $1,500,500,000g a week to keep the trader at 3.5% tax.

Enough said. Any one who says guilds that charge dues are just so the GM's can get rich has never run a guild.
Granted, I have 2 large trade guilds and a mid size trade guild. Non have mandatory dues, but the guildies are more than happy to donate on their own, have raffles, have auctions, what ever it takes to make enough to keep our trader.

Plan on starting your own trade guild? Plan on using up to a million+ a month in gold of YOUR own gold to support it!
Huzzah!!

This number looks way too big

Lol.. Yea, havent had my coffee yet when posted that,,
To Clarify, I was trying to state how much in sales a trader would have to take in to cover their bid at 3.5% tax.
**Based on a Kiosk that cost's 5 million, 142,857,143g sales in one week is needed @ 3.5% to cover bid cost.
Thanks for calling me on that!! Huzzah!!