[Vid] Why CP in Battlegrounds is a Terrible Idea and Why You Should Care!

Taylor_MB · October 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzxWwVMZsV0

See this poll in the BG sub-forum. Not the only one, but I was careful in constructing the poll options that it covered every possible reaction. Believe it is also the most responded to so better data.

*Slight correction to video. I did briefly mention level 1-49's going up against CP660's, this is NOT the case, apologies for the mind slip. The biggest power gap is between those who just reached level 50 who have no CP, no full gear sets, non upgraded gear and missing passives vs 660CP toons with completely optimised gear and CP.

**Something else I should've mentioned. CP allows you to make up for the deficiencies a non-CP tank build would have by investing into Sturdy and/or Block Cost Reductions Glyphs.

So:
cheaper block + more resources + more regen + stronger self healing + single objective BG = bad time

Solariken · October 2017

Yep, well said man. Futile in the end since it's going live, but I appreciate your efforts.

Shadzilla · October 2017

ZOS doesn't listen.

Taylor_MB · October 2017

Solariken wrote: »

Yep, well said man. Futile in the end since it's going live, but I appreciate your efforts.

Shadzilla wrote: »

ZOS doesn't listen.

I was complacent when I read the first set of patch notes, I thought for sure it would never make it to live given the immediate and significant backlash, wish I'd done more earlier.

Egonieser · October 2017

CP should've never been in the game to begin with. It has caused so much more problems than it ever remedied, and has undergone numerous overhauls trying to fix it it's not even funny.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Cp has literally broken certain campaigns in cyrodiil. Not only does it cause a ridiculous amount of lag, but to balance cp is in itself not at all possible. I was apprehensive about going into bg before, but now, as someone who is not cp 660, it is simply out of the question.

FloppyTouch · October 2017

Cp will bring more people too bgs

Bgs already don’t have a lot of people playing them
1.pay wall
2.no cp

Slack · October 2017

I am already almost 1-shotting new players sometimes. With CPs enabled it's going to be complete ***

brandonv516 · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Not only does it cause a ridiculous amount of lag

I'm all for BG staying non-CP but what you said was never proven.

Marabornwingrion · October 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Cp will bring more people too bgs

Bgs already don’t have a lot of people playing them
1.pay wall
2.no cp

Battlegrounds should come with base game update.
Remove paywall, keep non-CP system and problem with lack of people will be solved.

Jade1986 · October 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Not only does it cause a ridiculous amount of lag

I'm all for BG staying non-CP but what you said was never proven.

Its just logic. CP campaigns are far far FAR laggier than non cp campaigns, and that is because of far far more calculations that need to be made. When all 3 factions are pop locked on both servers, sotha is way less laggy. And unless there is some underlying hardware issue between the 2, it is that.

Jade1986 · October 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Cp will bring more people too bgs

Bgs already don’t have a lot of people playing them
1.pay wall
2.no cp

And people who enjoyed it for non cp will leave. Great.

Joy_Division · October 2017

You're right. But ZoS is probably doing this to try and make BGs more popular.

It's easier to add CP than to make a meaningful leaderboard, rewards players will want to progress towards, a robust matchmaker system, etc.

tplink3r1 · October 2017

Good, i have been waiting for CP to be added to it since the release.

Sixty5 · October 2017

Non-cp pvp also takes a lot more skill to be good at.

Being able to sustain yourself in a fight is more of a challenge, so you need to make more trade offs in your build, as well as being able to play around those.

With the exact same build in cyrodil as I use in BG's I have infinite sustain and my burst is hugely more impactful. Anyone who isn't a tank has their TTK cut in half, and anyone who is a tank is probably still out there holding block 3 weeks later.

Will I still play BGs after the changes? Probably, will they be as good? Probably not

Slack · October 2017

They should really just open it up for everyone, or at least those with a sub.
We, who already have had morrowind for a while, or even pre-ordered like myself, had our "exclusive" fun, but in my opinion it's the-more-the-merrier, and I really couldn't see any issue opening BGs for subscribers, especially since the main content which came with MW would still be behind an extra pay wall

ezeepeezee · October 2017

Totally agree with the points made.

I really there was ranked matchmaking though. When I play BGs right now, and there is someone < level 50 on the other team, it honestly makes me feel a little sick to kill that person.

I don't want to drive people out of the game. I want more people to play. But I know that when a lot of people go in there wanting some fun, expecting to have - even a slight - chance of winning, it's really disheartening to just get facerolled and go 0-10. That's what's already happening quite a lot. And it will be oh-so-much worse with CP.

Enough people are quitting over the way things are now, and now this. SMH.

Strider__Roshin · October 2017

Proc sets are the reason why no CP PvP is terrible. Since ZOS refuses to make them PvE only I can only be supportive of CP PvP.

With that said it would be nice if there was a way to put everyone at CP cap when doing battlegrounds that way it's an even playing field.

Strider__Roshin · October 2017

Sixty5 wrote: »

Non-cp pvp also takes a lot more skill to be good at.

Being able to sustain yourself in a fight is more of a challenge, so you need to make more trade offs in your build, as well as being able to play around those.

With the exact same build in cyrodil as I use in BG's I have infinite sustain and my burst is hugely more impactful. Anyone who isn't a tank has their TTK cut in half, and anyone who is a tank is probably still out there holding block 3 weeks later.

Will I still play BGs after the changes? Probably, will they be as good? Probably not

Non-CP without proc sets is more skillful. Unfortunately proc sets make non-CP PvP even less skill based than CP enabled PvP.

If it weren't for these terrible additions in the game I would be more than happy to agree with you.

Thogard · October 2017

Daus wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Non-cp pvp also takes a lot more skill to be good at.

Being able to sustain yourself in a fight is more of a challenge, so you need to make more trade offs in your build, as well as being able to play around those.

With the exact same build in cyrodil as I use in BG's I have infinite sustain and my burst is hugely more impactful. Anyone who isn't a tank has their TTK cut in half, and anyone who is a tank is probably still out there holding block 3 weeks later.

Will I still play BGs after the changes? Probably, will they be as good? Probably not

Non-CP without proc sets is more skillful. Unfortunately proc sets make non-CP PvP even less skill based than CP enabled PvP.

If it weren't for these terrible additions in the game I would be more than happy to agree with you.

Very few people run proc sets in the BGs these days

Strider__Roshin · October 2017

Thogard wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Non-cp pvp also takes a lot more skill to be good at.

Being able to sustain yourself in a fight is more of a challenge, so you need to make more trade offs in your build, as well as being able to play around those.

With the exact same build in cyrodil as I use in BG's I have infinite sustain and my burst is hugely more impactful. Anyone who isn't a tank has their TTK cut in half, and anyone who is a tank is probably still out there holding block 3 weeks later.

Will I still play BGs after the changes? Probably, will they be as good? Probably not

Non-CP without proc sets is more skillful. Unfortunately proc sets make non-CP PvP even less skill based than CP enabled PvP.

If it weren't for these terrible additions in the game I would be more than happy to agree with you.

Very few people run proc sets in the BGs these days

I guess it's just bad luck then because when I tried doing Battlegrounds yesterday every match had around 1 or 2 guys running proc sets.

Chelo · October 2017

Been playing since close beta and I want to be able to use all my unlocks in BGs. An advice to all the new players out there, if you want to be competitive in an MMO, less whining and more farming...

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

I'm not a fan of the game modes really.

Drummerx04 · October 2017

laced wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Not only does it cause a ridiculous amount of lag

I'm all for BG staying non-CP but what you said was never proven.

Its just logic. CP campaigns are far far FAR laggier than non cp campaigns, and that is because of far far more calculations that need to be made. When all 3 factions are pop locked on both servers, sotha is way less laggy. And unless there is some underlying hardware issue between the 2, it is that.

And that's what the no-CP double AP event about a year ago aimed to explore. CP was going to be ZOS' easy scapegoat for removing lag from Cyrodiil... except it basically didn't work at all. It seemed less laggy at first, but once the population made it back up to normal, Trueflame NA primetime, it was just a laggy cluster***k as always, except now siege hurt more (I guess there is another debate on whether that's a good or bad thing).

And here's a fun little thing for you to consider, adding in a couple multiplications statements and table lookups on each action seems like a big deal to us, but all it does is add a small constant overhead that a computer can blow through more or less effortlessly. The things that make the big differences in most software are overall algorithmic efficiency, code efficiency, proper preemptive parallelization, and hardware speed.

No matter how populated you think the non-CP campaigns get, the main CP campaign has more large guild groups, more densely packed players, and for longer times. And since ZOS won't just give us an actual count of players IN Cyrodiil, we can't make an actual comparison on the population of different campaigns. Sure, maybe Sotha is 3 faction poplocked, but is there a large queue on all factions for 4+ hours? Are 6 guilds from 3 factions trying to dethrone at the same keep? How many full 16+ man guild raids do you actually have in sotha on average?

Drakkdjinn · October 2017

Tay's tired of ZoS' pug-level bs.

BohnT · October 2017

Just stop it. CPs are in the game and they won't be removed.
Also Non-Cp pvp is the most unbalanced thing in this game: poisons, proc sets, siege, Xv1, hard counters are much stronger in non cp.

If they removed CP the chars of any pve player would go through the biggest nerf in history.
-overall stats
-damage
-sustain
-survivability
-heals
-creative builds

CP may not be perfect but they make the game much diverse than non-cp

jlboozer · October 2017

I actually want CP added to BGs, CP pvp is more fun imo

Drakkdjinn · October 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Just stop it. CPs are in the game and they won't be removed.
Also Non-Cp pvp is the most unbalanced thing in this game: poisons, proc sets, siege, Xv1, hard counters are much stronger in non cp.

If they removed CP the chars of any pve player would go through the biggest nerf in history.
-overall stats
-damage
-sustain
-survivability
-heals
-creative builds

CP may not be perfect but they make the game much diverse than non-cp

You know nothing Bohn Snow.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Not only does it cause a ridiculous amount of lag

I'm all for BG staying non-CP but what you said was never proven.

Its just logic. CP campaigns are far far FAR laggier than non cp campaigns, and that is because of far far more calculations that need to be made. When all 3 factions are pop locked on both servers, sotha is way less laggy. And unless there is some underlying hardware issue between the 2, it is that.

And that's what the no-CP double AP event about a year ago aimed to explore. CP was going to be ZOS' easy scapegoat for removing lag from Cyrodiil... except it basically didn't work at all. It seemed less laggy at first, but once the population made it back up to normal, Trueflame NA primetime, it was just a laggy cluster***k as always, except now siege hurt more (I guess there is another debate on whether that's a good or bad thing).

And here's a fun little thing for you to consider, adding in a couple multiplications statements and table lookups on each action seems like a big deal to us, but all it does is add a small constant overhead that a computer can blow through more or less effortlessly. The things that make the big differences in most software are overall algorithmic efficiency, code efficiency, proper preemptive parallelization, and hardware speed.

No matter how populated you think the non-CP campaigns get, the main CP campaign has more large guild groups, more densely packed players, and for longer times. And since ZOS won't just give us an actual count of players IN Cyrodiil, we can't make an actual comparison on the population of different campaigns. Sure, maybe Sotha is 3 faction poplocked, but is there a large queue on all factions for 4+ hours? Are 6 guilds from 3 factions trying to dethrone at the same keep? How many full 16+ man guild raids do you actually have in sotha on average?

Pop locked with a wait time is pop locked with a wait time. They cant get more populated than that.

Apache_Kid · October 2017

Very last thing we need is more tanks sitting on objectives that are even harder to kill. Ruins the whole experience. Keep CP OUT of BGs!

Demycilian · October 2017

Imo, OP looks vaguely like a Bosmer.