PvE Magicka Sorc Rotation (Asylum)
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dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Idinuse
Just for grins, this is the maximum Magicka possible, I believe. Mage mundus, Infused on big pieces. 4 Mage's guild skills, with Bound Aegis. 2 mismatched magicka monster pieces, 5 Necro and 4 Spinner's. You might be able to get more dual wielding, but then the build wouldn't be viable. This build would be viable, albeit, not the strongest.
Of course, max Magicka isn't everything. Even dropping one of the monster pieces for the 5th Spinner's piece would bump up the Effective Spell Power by 500. But if you're interested in max pet damage or max shields, with this build, the Familiar has a 6162 tooltip and Empowered Ward has a 27562 tooltip (so Hardened Ward would be 36657).
Using Ancient's Grace would only add 9 more magicka, bringing you to 63805, but you'd loose the 4th piece spell damage bonus on Spinner's for the staff, so it's not worth it.Edited by dpencil1 on September 27, 2017 2:18PM1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Idinuse
Just for grins, this is the maximum Magicka possible, I believe. Mage mundus, Infused on big pieces. 4 Mage's guild skills, with Bound Aegis. 2 mismatched magicka monster pieces, 5 Necro and 4 Spinner's. You might be able to get more dual wielding, but then the build wouldn't be viable. This build would be viable, albeit, not the strongest.
Of course, max Magicka isn't everything. Even dropping one of the monster pieces for the 5th Spinner's piece would bump up the Effective Spell Power by 500. But if you're interested in max pet damage or max shields, with this build, the Familiar has a 6162 tooltip and Empowered Ward has a 27562 tooltip (so Hardened Ward would be 36657).
Using Ancient's Grace would only add 9 more magicka, bringing you to 63805, but you'd loose the 4th piece spell damage bonus on Spinner's for the staff, so it's not worth it.
What about Ancient Grace + Master's Staff? Will defo be better than Spinners imho@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
SammyFable✭✭✭✭Did you try out what DPS you get when just using a trial Staff instead of the Asylum?
I'm not really a big fan of the asylum destro for PvE since i mostly get the same DPS as with a moondancer staff for 4 piece. From my testings with a pet build offbalance will usually have a high uptime somewhere in the 70-80% region. Adding a Fire enchant to the frontbar will give about a 60%ish Uptime on burning with about 1k DPS. So the asylum staff doesn't seem to give a good chunk extra damage/utiility.
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Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Idinuse
Just for grins, this is the maximum Magicka possible, I believe. Mage mundus, Infused on big pieces. 4 Mage's guild skills, with Bound Aegis. 2 mismatched magicka monster pieces, 5 Necro and 4 Spinner's. You might be able to get more dual wielding, but then the build wouldn't be viable. This build would be viable, albeit, not the strongest.
Of course, max Magicka isn't everything. Even dropping one of the monster pieces for the 5th Spinner's piece would bump up the Effective Spell Power by 500. But if you're interested in max pet damage or max shields, with this build, the Familiar has a 6162 tooltip and Empowered Ward has a 27562 tooltip (so Hardened Ward would be 36657).
Using Ancient's Grace would only add 9 more magicka, bringing you to 63805, but you'd loose the 4th piece spell damage bonus on Spinner's for the staff, so it's not worth it.
O.O Thank you for the insight! My Mag Sorc is initially aimed at PvP, but I've been struggling getting both stats and single target DPS up to par with you guys, figured I'd want to have insight in the ins and outs of PvE then rebuild for PvP, we'll see.
Much appreciated!Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@SammyFable
Just switching to a trials staff and keeping everything else identical, I get around 38k.0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Alcast
Regarding "Deep Freeze, " after trying to reproduce it on a number of different targets, the only ones I've been consistently able to do it on are Wasps. I wonder if it is a bugged hold-over from the old version of the Frost status effect. It applies immediately to them every time, dropping them to the ground and stunning them. Other ground-based mobs and even other flying mobs don't seem to be effected by it.
Edited by dpencil1 on September 28, 2017 1:49PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Alcast
Regarding "Deep Freeze, " after trying to reproduce it on a number of different targets, the only ones I've been consistently able to do it on are Wasps. I wonder if it is a bugged hold-over from the old version of the Frost status effect. It applies immediately to them every time, dropping them to the ground and stunning them. Other ground-based mobs and even other flying mobs don't seem to be effected by it.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Any insight would be awesome.
I think it´s a comparable mechanic to explosion with fire dmg on zombies. Atleast i always thought it was...<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here we go. Found a quote from paulsimonps about it:
"An NPC that is "Weak against" or "Vulnerable" literally has ZERO resistance against that specific element. In addition to that any target that is weak against an element will also have a chance of proc'ing an additional high damage effect. Shock is called Disintegration, Fire is Explosion and Ice is Deep freeze."Edited by dpencil1 on September 28, 2017 1:48PM0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Daila820
WITH ASYLUM
2 ilambris, 5 Julianos, 3 IA, Front bar Infused Lightning Asylum (Shock), Back bar Infused Lightning vMA (Fire)
Lover mundus
40 Elfborn, 37 Ele Expert, 44 Spell Erosion, 34 MaA, 75 Thau
WITHOUT ASYLUM
Same build, just switched out the Asylum for the 4th piece IA staff.0 -
Ruusa✭✭✭Were all these tests done with perfect Asylum weapons? How much difference is there if you use imperfect weapons? Would the imperfect weapons still be better than IA staff?0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Ruusa
All testing was with Perfect versions, as we are trying to consider BiS setups. With Imperfect, the timing of the rotation would be more complicated, not nearly so tight. So at that point, you'd probably just run a more "normal" rotation without too much concern for keeping the Asylum proc up off cooldown. You'd still get more Burning uptime than with a trials staff, but the overall difference would likely be negligable.1 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would we interesting to see the dps difference between Asylum and some other staff(e.g moondancer) if you don't have concussion and off balance to see if the new weapon is still worth it if you already have a really high uptime on those debuffs(the burning dps seems really nice). Would also make it easier to compare them with stam dps since they do not those 2 strong buffs in their target dummy dps.(40k dps with 100% uptime on those buff would be just ~34k without them)
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Zer0oo
Yeah. Previously, I used a mathematical method to calculate dps assuming 100% Concussed uptime (therefore eliminating it as a variable) here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369734/pet-sorc-dps-set-comparison-with-parse-data/p1
We could apply the same method to the two parses listed above (with vs without Asylum). I'll see if I can get around to doing that some time later today or tomorrow, as it's kind of time consuming.
Other than that, you'd just need some actual testing with a trials group.Edited by dpencil1 on September 28, 2017 5:51PM2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Izaki
Master's Staff will be losing the extra magicka next patch, and I already mentioned that Ancient's Grace only adds 9 more magicka while losing the spell damage bonus, so neither of those would really help.
Yeah I was talking this patch sorryyyy. And not Grace of the Ancients, I meant Willlpower lol, must have read what you wrote about it and written it down instead of what I intended to, my bad.
But on Live:
Master + 3 Willpower = 2.4k magicka, 186 spell damage
4 piece Spinner: 2k magicka 129 spell damage
@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
AlcastClass Representative@Alcast
Regarding "Deep Freeze, " after trying to reproduce it on a number of different targets, the only ones I've been consistently able to do it on are Wasps. I wonder if it is a bugged hold-over from the old version of the Frost status effect. It applies immediately to them every time, dropping them to the ground and stunning them. Other ground-based mobs and even other flying mobs don't seem to be effected by it.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Any insight would be awesome.
I think it´s a comparable mechanic to explosion with fire dmg on zombies. Atleast i always thought it was...
Very good point, i completely forgot about this thanks for mentioning it. So that stuff is even stronger then I first thought lol.
So we have:
Burning > EXPLOISION
Chilled > DEEP FREEZE
Concussion > ?
@dpencil1 Do you know if only ONE Player can apply those status effects on a boss? Or can several players apply those effects on the boss?
I guess this would also allow us to use Spelldamage and a Magicka Damage/return Glyph on the weapons instead of Shock/Fire.Edited by Alcast on September 29, 2017 7:27AMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Alcast
Regarding "Deep Freeze, " after trying to reproduce it on a number of different targets, the only ones I've been consistently able to do it on are Wasps. I wonder if it is a bugged hold-over from the old version of the Frost status effect. It applies immediately to them every time, dropping them to the ground and stunning them. Other ground-based mobs and even other flying mobs don't seem to be effected by it.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Any insight would be awesome.
I think it´s a comparable mechanic to explosion with fire dmg on zombies. Atleast i always thought it was...
Very good point, i completely forgot about this thanks for mentioning it. So that stuff is even stronger then I first thought lol.
So we have:
Burning > EXPLOISION
Chilled > DEEP FREEZE
Concussion > ?
@dpencil1 Do you know if only ONE Player can apply those status effects on a boss? Or can several players apply those effects on the boss?
I guess this would also allow us to use Spelldamage and a Magicka Damage/return Glyph on the weapons instead of Shock/Fire.
Question is: Are there bosses that are vulnerable to certain elemental effects?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Zedrian✭✭✭@dpencil1 Lover combined with this staff looks great for solo, but what about group situations? Your higher scores are when you had longer uptimes on status effects (no surprise there). However, would you lose DPS in a group situation where others are already applying a high uptime of these effects? Can burning stack? Do others benefit from your burning effect?
Would it be more interesting to have one player or many players with the staff?0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I need a personal DPS trainer. Seeing parses always makes me cry.
Edited by Feanor on September 29, 2017 8:37AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here we go. Found a quote from paulsimonps about it:
"An NPC that is "Weak against" or "Vulnerable" literally has ZERO resistance against that specific element. In addition to that any target that is weak against an element will also have a chance of proc'ing an additional high damage effect. Shock is called Disintegration, Fire is Explosion and Ice is Deep freeze."
Reposting this for @Alcast
It's unlikely any boss in the game is actually vulnerable to an element, so these would only generally hit trash overland mobs that were going to die in 1 second anyway. Either way, I imagine these procs are stackable since they are just direct damge events, though it doesn't really matter much if they don't work against strong targets.
@Zedrian
I actually still like Lover in most group situations too. You just ask the tank how much extra Pen he/she is providing and move that much out of Spell Erosion and into your other stars. Otherwise, you could run Apprentice and leave your CP alone. Regarding Concussed uptime, like I mentioned to Zer0oo, I will see about doing a calculation for 100% uptime with and without Asylum soonish.
As far as stacking Burning goes, I think I heard it does. I'll need to go test with someone later to confirm.
@Feanor
Send me a PM and we can talk through it together. I'm here for you, man!Edited by dpencil1 on September 29, 2017 12:04PM0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭
With two players continuously firing Force Pulse with Asylum weapons, my personal "Burning" dps was unaffected compared to attacking the dummy solo even though my partner got most of the credit for refreshing the effect itself on the dummy.
So it does look like Burning stacks.
(Or else I'm misinterpreting the data)Edited by dpencil1 on September 30, 2017 1:27AM0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭IA STAFF
ASYLUM
I used a Flame enchant frontbar and Wep Dmg enchant backbar for these. The Flame enchant compensated somewhat for the high uptime of Burning inherent on the Asylum destro.
You can see that the two parses are only 1k off, while the IA parse has a very low Off Balance/Minor Vulnerability uptime. The difference amounts to about 6.5% more damage coming from those debuffs, which would have made the IA parse 39635.
The reason for the better overall dps of the IA parse had more to do with the fact that it was just an overall luckier parse. More crits, more Frags, a more well executed rotation. What it does demonstrate is that Asylum doesn't make an huge difference, at least in a no-pet context.0 -
Zedrian✭✭✭Thank you @dpencil1 , as always great information for the community. I actually run Mage on my sorcerer to boost pet damage + 34 in Spell erosion.
On the pts I ran 2 infused staves with a spell DMG enchant on the Maelström staff because the infused boost will remain on the front bar. With à Nirn staff does the 200 spell damage boost on back bar skills remain while on front bar ?0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Zedrian
Only single target dots like Destructive Touch retain the stats from the bar they were originally cast on. AOE and Ground-Based dots update their damage every tick, so Nirnhoned does nothing for them when you are off of that bar. Gilliamtherogue just released a video saying Nirnhoned was best for vMA backbar, but he was primarily considering that from a Nightblade perspective. For Sorcs, especially those trying to run Ilambris with 2 lightning staves, having a Flame enchant on an Infused weapon ends up being better most of the time. Or, as you said, you can use a Wep Dmg glyph to get a 5 second boost to spell damage. I was getting about 60% uptime on that enchant when I used it.
On the Mundus stone. I did a bit of testing with that to see if using the Mage to boost pet damage was worth it. Turns out it's not. You're better off using Lover if you can fine tune your Erosion CP to not overpenetrate in group. Apprentice is 2nd best, even with pets, followed by Thief, and then Mage.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here we go. Found a quote from paulsimonps about it:
"An NPC that is "Weak against" or "Vulnerable" literally has ZERO resistance against that specific element. In addition to that any target that is weak against an element will also have a chance of proc'ing an additional high damage effect. Shock is called Disintegration, Fire is Explosion and Ice is Deep freeze."
Reposting this for @Alcast
It's unlikely any boss in the game is actually vulnerable to an element, so these would only generally hit trash overland mobs that were going to die in 1 second anyway. Either way, I imagine these procs are stackable since they are just direct damge events, though it doesn't really matter much if they don't work against strong targets.
Trollboss in Sanctum ophidia is vulnerable to fire, atleast 1...2 years ago i got lots of explosion-proccs there on my Mag-DK
Noobplar0
https://youtu.be/pHjZ_Iad_v4