PvE Magicka Sorc Rotation (Asylum)

Vaoh

Gear-wise, what setups are people running with an Asylum staff frontbar and Maelstrom staff backbar?

dpencil1

@Vaoh
I've just been sticking with 5 Necro and 3 IA. Haven't tried switching out for anything else yet.

Vaoh

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Vaoh
I've just been sticking with 5 Necro and 3 IA. Haven't tried switching out for anything else yet.

So were essentially going back to Ilambris setups? It wouldn't be more beneficial to run 5x Juli/Necro, 5x Necro/IA, or 5x Juli/IA? This is assuming we use double Lightning staves ofc.

dpencil1

@Vaoh
In HotR, the consensus seemed to settle on a 5 piece, a 4 piece trials set and 2 monster. The shift with crit bonuses from the anticipated PTS version kept Julianos from overtaking Necro and Mother's Sorrow lost its BiS status as well. Nothing has really changed. Just dropping the 4th piece spell damage bonus of the trials set for the Asylum weapon. If your group already has 2 people with it then you can probably just stick with the 4th trails set piece if you want.

I can maybe try to test some different setups later on, but I don't expect them to beat what I've got right now.

Also, IA's Minor Vuln bonus is absolutely useless with the Asylum staff, so the only benefits it gives are the crit and HA bonuses, which are not as substantial as other 5th piece bonuses.

Vaoh

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Vaoh
In HotR, the consensus seemed to settle on a 5 piece, a 4 piece trials set and 2 monster. The shift with crit bonuses from the anticipated PTS version kept Julianos from overtaking Necro and Mother's Sorrow lost its BiS status as well. Nothing has really changed. Just dropping the 4th piece spell damage bonus of the trials set for the Asylum weapon. If your group already has 2 people with it then you can probably just stick with the 4th trails set piece if you want.

I can maybe try to test some different setups later on, but I don't expect them to beat what I've got right now.

Also, IA's Minor Vuln bonus is absolutely useless with the Asylum staff, so the only benefits it gives are the crit and HA bonuses, which are not as substantial as other 5th piece bonuses.

In HotR I've run 1x Kena, 5x Juli, 5x Necro/IA (based on whether I have a pet out or not). I've found this to be the "best setup" in raids for me. I'll take your word for it though that this won't be the case next patch. IA will be totally useless except on the first two bosses of AA.

dpencil1

@Vaoh
Yeah. I'm pretty sure the difference won't be huge either way. Honestly, it seems that the variability between running the same rotation with the same gear multiple times (at most, usually around 4k dps) is actually greater than the average dps difference between changing gear between the various "good" choices.

Also, on a totally unrelated note.... I hearby challenge you to solo the Asylum!

Vaoh

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Vaoh
Yeah. I'm pretty sure the difference won't be huge either way. Honestly, it seems that the variability between running the same rotation with the same gear multiple times (at most, usually around 4k dps) is actually greater than the average dps difference between changing gear between the various "good" choices.

Also, on a totally unrelated note.... I hearby challenge you to solo the Asylum!

Doesn't St. Olms have like 21M health on Normal? Plus there are those invincibility phases that make the fight last longer.... we'll see. I'm pretty sure that fight could be the most torturous challenge to ever attempt solo lol. Not fun to fight for 20min straight and then die to a lag spike

I put all my effort toward soloing Vet Bloodroot so far in HotR, only to realize once getting close to beating Galchobhar that I can't get past the Attendants anyway due to the chain CC that needs to be interrupted. Today I'm actually gonna try to solo Vet Falkreath. I've yet to fight Domihaus solo.

Joy_Division

Does this mean I have to use a pet to max sorc DPS?

dpencil1

@Joy_Division For the absolute max, yeah probably. But non-pet sorcs aren't as far behind as they used to be. The main problem is one of sustain. Being that we need to heavy attack at least once every rotation, the more dots we can keep rolling, the less that couple seconds of channeling will hurt us. Also, since we have an 8 second rotation window, the more low-cost skills we can fit in there, the better. Force Pulse is one of our highest costing skills, so spamming it 3-5 times vs the 2 times used in this rotation will eat through your magicka quickly.

I do intend to do some tests that mess with more variables like adding Frags, changing out gear, and running non-pet. So I'll post findings when I get them.

Vaoh

Joy_Division wrote: »

Does this mean I have to use a pet to max sorc DPS?

This has been the case since pets were buffed, so yes.

Unless you are a Mag Sorc main and want to stick with this class, I highly recommend Magicka NB for DPS. Higher DPS, better group support, and much more enjoyable according to pretty much everyone who plays one.

Subversus

Vaoh wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Aether was the real thing on Sorcs, but since that's officially useless, I guess Sorcs are back to just being DPS without any sort of group support aside from the 3% extra Spell Crit

.... not cool.

I'm not switching to Mag NB.... ever. They are becoming so much better though it's crazy. Higher DPS, sustain, group support over my Sorc.

At least Sorcs deal the best AoE damage if allowed to use a pet still

Hell yeah, this is our time to shine. Moments like these make me happy that I have 3 magblades

Vaoh

Subversus wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Aether was the real thing on Sorcs, but since that's officially useless, I guess Sorcs are back to just being DPS without any sort of group support aside from the 3% extra Spell Crit

.... not cool.

I'm not switching to Mag NB.... ever. They are becoming so much better though it's crazy. Higher DPS, sustain, group support over my Sorc.

At least Sorcs deal the best AoE damage if allowed to use a pet still

Hell yeah, this is our time to shine. Moments like these make me happy that I have 3 magblades

You just wait.

My Magicka Warden will outparse Stam DKs one day..,,

dpencil1

OP updated with new personal best parse: 42.9k





I got very lucky with Maw of the Infernal in this parse. He usually gets summoned 3 times on average during the 3mil parse, but he got summoned 4 times in this one. I've included both the higher and lower percentage screenshots to show all the damage Maw did:

Fiery Breath - 1943
Jagged Claw - 1043
Fiery Jaws - 881
1943 + 1043 + 881 = 3867 dps

Same rotation, etc. as previous parses.

idk

The asylum weapon benefit has a 5 second CD. As such I think it would be a challenge to take care of that buff to keep it up nearly full time. Unless that's done gen Sorc rotations would not change.

dpencil1

@idk
The Perfected Asylum destro has a 4 second cooldown, which is exactly as long as Concussion lasts, and refreshing it fits perfectly into the rotation I posted in the OP.

Also, because I always complete my heavy attack with Force Pulse, there is never any downtime from the heavy attack consuming Off Balance.

idk

dpencil1 wrote: »

@idk
The Perfected Asylum destro has a 4 second cooldown, which is exactly as long as Concussion lasts, and refreshing it fits perfectly into the rotation I posted in the OP.

Also, because I always complete my heavy attack with Force Pulse, there is never any downtime from the heavy attack consuming Off Balance.

Wow. Would have thought it would take less than 4 seconds for a light attack, daedric prey them heavy attack. Cool.

Tannus15

Izaki wrote: »

Concret wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Dymence
Nice! Wasn't sure if we'd ever see 40k again after Morrowind/HotR. Would you mind sharing your own build/rotation info from the parse? I'd like to compare it to what I've been doing. You always seem to parse higher than me even when we are using the exact same setup

Quite a lot of people hitting over 40k since Morrowind to be honest...

But either way, that new staff is going to be so good in group play that its definitely worth making a rotation around it!

Not so sure about that. With the new weapons the gap between Stamina and magicka seems to be increased again (the new one hand weapons are really strong) and magicka seem to be "only" usefull for minor vulnerability (and we already reach huge uptime without the new staff) and off balance (maybe the new staff help to increase off balance within a trial setting, i still didnt tested buff group uptime with this weapon)

Nah the Asylum Daggers aren't worth losing a whole 5piece bonus for. Remember that stamina setups rely a lot on group synergy: support sets.

Plus, no one has the space in their bars to have Steel Tornado. Usually during trash packs, people take off Rending Slashes to put it on. A NB doesn't have the space, a DK or Sorc don't either. The only ones who do are Templars and Wardens. But since you need at 5 Support sets on different toons (NMG, Sunder, Morag Tong, Alkosh, War Machine), in most groups consisting of 4 stamina DPS, each one of those 4 will have to wear at least 1 support set. This is without even mentioning the difficulty of the rotation. And just the fact of using Steel Tornado instead of your spammable in a single target fight is a huge loss as well.

The Asylum daggers double the duration of Rending Slashes (your weakest DoT), Deadly Cloak (your 2nd weakest DoT) and Rend (an ultimate no one uses because Flawless Dawnbreaker gives you almost 300 weapon damage thus benefitting you more overall). These Daggers are not going to be used, aside from some very niche builds. I've tested these weapons on 3 classes so far, and none of the results were promising.

If anything, Master Daggers are the real deal this patch. But like I said before, to be able to use them, you need to have all the support sets. But currently, 3 VO + 2 Master Daggers + 5 Hunding's > 5 VO + 5 Hunding's in a situation where full penetration has been achieved. You'd need 5 stamina DPS to make that work, which is kinda almost common, but not possible in some raids. The vMA Daggers still aren't possible since the sustain doesn't permit an intense rotation like that.

Stamina DPS doesn't move this patch, aside from the slight increase due to CP. If anything it actually decreases since Infused doesn't affect the vMA Bow anymore.

Have you looked into dropping the monster set for weapons and keeping both 5pc's?

dpencil1

@Tannus15
If you're asking Izaki, you should probably tag him, as this is not his thread. He won't get a notification unless he's subscribed to it. His comments were regarding Stamina builds (which is a bit off topic from this thread), and those already utilize 2 5 piece sets and a Monster set (since they dual wield). I'm not sure why you quoted him if you were asking about Magicka setups, but if that's what you are asking, the answer is that generally you want 2 Monster, a 5-piece, and 3 Trials gear (4 without Asylum), Asylum front bar and vMA back bar. This is going to give you better results than 2 5 piece sets, mainly because IA and Master Architect aren't very good 5-piece sets for Sorcs and Moondancer requires lots of synergies (so is not solo friendly), but their 3-piece 5% bonus combined with a good monster set is stronger than any single 5 piece set.

Tannus15

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Tannus15
If you're asking Izaki, you should probably tag him, as this is not his thread. He won't get a notification unless he's subscribed to it. His comments were regarding Stamina builds (which is a bit off topic from this thread), and those already utilize 2 5 piece sets and a Monster set (since they dual wield). I'm not sure why you quoted him if you were asking about Magicka setups, but if that's what you are asking, the answer is that generally you want 2 Monster, a 5-piece, and 3 Trials gear (4 without Asylum), Asylum front bar and vMA back bar. This is going to give you better results than 2 5 piece sets, mainly because IA and Master Architect aren't very good 5-piece sets for Sorcs and Moondancer requires lots of synergies (so is not solo friendly), but their 3-piece 5% bonus combined with a good monster set is stronger than any single 5 piece set.

Yeah, sorry, I was asking @Izaki if he had tried 2 5pc and weapons instead of 2 5pc and monster in regards to stamina sets, which is a bit off topic like you say.

Tangentially I know a few people who are using mother sorrow or spinners with julianos and vMA on live right now.
For magi sorc I know Julianos + Netch and vMA lightning staff / master lightning staff is a thing too.

dpencil1

@Tannus15
Ok. No problem. And yeah, running double 5 piece like Juli/Netch is certainly viable. The range between "good" and "best" is much smaller than it used to be, so lots of good options are available, and BiS can be different depending on build / play-style / environment, etc.

Idinuse

Concret wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Dymence
Nice! Wasn't sure if we'd ever see 40k again after Morrowind/HotR. Would you mind sharing your own build/rotation info from the parse? I'd like to compare it to what I've been doing. You always seem to parse higher than me even when we are using the exact same setup

And I have seen higher number on YouTube

That build I'd like to know! 55K mag and 2,5K SD. Advice appreciated!

dpencil1

@Idinuse
Mage Mundus (big Infused, small Divines), Necropotence, Bound Aegis, and Inner Light will get you around there. 5-1-1, Shooting Star, a Magicka bonus monster set piece, Moondancer/Master Architect 3-4 piece would also help.

Morgul667

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Idinuse
Mage Mundus (big Infused, small Divines), Necropotence, Bound Aegis, and Inner Light will get you around there. 5-1-1, Shooting Star, a Magicka bonus monster set piece, Moondancer/Master Architect 3-4 piece would also help.

So mage gives the best result with this build ? You use tormentor or matriarch here ? 2.2k DPS is nice for the zap

dpencil1

@Morgul667
No, I used Lover for all my parses. My above comment was in relation to Idinuse's question for how Concret got to 55k magicka and 2.5k SD on his parse. The 2.5k part is easy, since with Major Sorcery up, it's more like 2k unbuffed.

My build was just 2 Maw or Ilambris with 5 Necro, 3 IA, Asylum Infused lightning front bar (Shock), vMA Infused lightning back bar (Fire). 49 Ele Expert, 46 Spell Erosion, 40 Elfborn, 20 MaA, 75 Thaumaturge. Lover mundus. Spell pots, bi-stat food.

Bar setup:
1. Inner Light (could also be Endless Fury or Crystal Frags), Force Pulse, Daedric Prey, Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Shooting Star
2. Liquid Lightning, Blockade of Storms, Ele Drain (Empowered Ward in actual combat), Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Thunderous Rage

I have always found that the Twilight provides better total single target dps than Bound Aegis. I prefer the Matriarch because I like to have a heal available if needed and I don't find the Tormentor's dps bonus to be worth the magicka and global cooldown cost.

Morgul667

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Morgul667
No, I used Lover for all my parses. My above comment was in relation to Idinuse's question for how Concret got to 55k magicka and 2.5k SD on his parse. The 2.5k part is easy, since with Major Sorcery up, it's more like 2k unbuffed.

My build was just 2 Maw or Ilambris with 5 Necro, 3 IA, Asylum Infused lightning front bar (Shock), vMA Infused lightning back bar (Fire). 49 Ele Expert, 46 Spell Erosion, 40 Elfborn, 20 MaA, 75 Thaumaturge. Lover mundus. Spell pots, bi-stat food.

Bar setup:
1. Inner Light (could also be Endless Fury or Crystal Frags), Force Pulse, Daedric Prey, Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Shooting Star
2. Liquid Lightning, Blockade of Storms, Ele Drain (Empowered Ward in actual combat), Volatile Familiar, Twilight Matriarch, Thunderous Rage

I have always found that the Twilight provides better total single target dps than Bound Aegis. I prefer the Matriarch because I like to have a heal available if needed and I don't find the Tormentor's dps bonus to be worth the magicka and global cooldown cost.

Thanks for all the detail info ! Do you have more magicka issues since you add force pulse to the rotation ?

dpencil1

@Morgul667
It is slightly more magicka hungry than, say, using Shock Clench. I can run the 3 mil parse without any magicka issues assuming I am using potions on cooldown. For the 6 mil dummy, I have to take just one rotation to do no Force Pulses and do 2 heavy attacks instead.

If you were using this rotation in a raid, you could just periodically stop doing Force Pulses and do double heavy attacks whenever resources got too low, but then you'd also have synergies, etc. to help you out.

Morgul667

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Morgul667
It is slightly more magicka hungry than, say, using Shock Clench. I can run the 3 mil parse without any magicka issues assuming I am using potions on cooldown. For the 6 mil dummy, I have to take just one rotation to do no Force Pulses and do 2 heavy attacks instead.

If you were using this rotation in a raid, you could just periodically stop doing Force Pulses and do double heavy attacks whenever resources got too low, but then you'd also have synergies, etc. to help you out.

Ok thanks

MLGProPlayer

These parses are ridiculous.

Does asylum staff make sense for the other magicka classes?

Idinuse

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Idinuse
Mage Mundus (big Infused, small Divines), Necropotence, Bound Aegis, and Inner Light will get you around there. 5-1-1, Shooting Star, a Magicka bonus monster set piece, Moondancer/Master Architect 3-4 piece would also help.

Ty!

Izaki

Tannus15 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Tannus15
If you're asking Izaki, you should probably tag him, as this is not his thread. He won't get a notification unless he's subscribed to it. His comments were regarding Stamina builds (which is a bit off topic from this thread), and those already utilize 2 5 piece sets and a Monster set (since they dual wield). I'm not sure why you quoted him if you were asking about Magicka setups, but if that's what you are asking, the answer is that generally you want 2 Monster, a 5-piece, and 3 Trials gear (4 without Asylum), Asylum front bar and vMA back bar. This is going to give you better results than 2 5 piece sets, mainly because IA and Master Architect aren't very good 5-piece sets for Sorcs and Moondancer requires lots of synergies (so is not solo friendly), but their 3-piece 5% bonus combined with a good monster set is stronger than any single 5 piece set.

Yeah, sorry, I was asking @Izaki if he had tried 2 5pc and weapons instead of 2 5pc and monster in regards to stamina sets, which is a bit off topic like you say.

Tangentially I know a few people who are using mother sorrow or spinners with julianos and vMA on live right now.
For magi sorc I know Julianos + Netch and vMA lightning staff / master lightning staff is a thing too.

All of the unique dual wield weapons (Master, Maelstrom and Asylum) suck. Only the Bow is worth it.

So I haven't tested 2x 5 pieces + Weapons, but I can already tell you that it will be basically the same in terms of DPS as 5 + 3 + Monster + Weapons in most cases. Obviously it depends on what you're wearing but generally there isn't much difference. I'd still go for the Monster set though.

Stamina build discussion in a magicka sorc rotation thread? Wuuuut?