Next time you scream elitist.

Cryptical · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

A healer concentrated on healing can slot the ritual, regen, orbs, breath, springs, and the ultimate of their choice on their healing staff bar and achieve that total focus on healing through 4 simultaneous HoTs plus 2 panic burst heals... and is using only half their character's capacities.

It's not asking too much to run destro on bar 2 and to apply some ele drain while those 4 HoTs are cranking away.

ValkynSketha · September 2017

.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Edgy response.

Lexynide · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, I'll keep on repeating that because that's the truth : ESO is not designed as a competitive game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I am remembering it correctly.

You don't.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He's the one coming to the forums complaining that he's been kicked by a group of alleged bad players for asking one of them to change his bar to slot one skill. He's the one who couldn't get over it and needed the sympathy of the whole community...

So let me get this straight... you're saying that feeling of a person that has some weird social issues should be respected and everyone should get into this uncomfortable setting expecting a minefield of a social interaction with everybody...
While saying that a guy can't complain about being unjustly kicked? If that's not the Oxford definition of hypocrisy then I don't know what that is.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

None of us was there, right ? But the fact is, 4 people were there, among which 3 decided it was "demanding" enough to instant-kick.

Judging by how many people here thinking that asking to swap a skill for a single run is equivalent to some sort of harassment demanding abuse it wouldn't be uncommon to find 3 people who have strange way of perceiving things.
Also there's a thing that people tend to follow blindly without questioning.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers these days, that makes them think that having a thick skin is better than not needing one at all ?

If you have no skin you'll die of blood loss, bacterial infection and thermal shock on your own. It's rather unnatural to have no skin at all, and definitely not good for your health. Get it where I'm going with this?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, remember that what you call "casuals" are the overwhelming majority in this game. Like in any non-competitive game. Whenever you PUG, you'll get grouped with them, statistically far more often than with people like you. I understand that you would like things to be the other way around, but they're not. The fact is, you're the minority and should adapt... or keep on qqing.

Well first of all I never said I'm on top of leaderboards of anything, I'm quite a filthy casual myself. And second... Did you just seriously say that a good minority should stop being good and instead adapt to a playstyle where 4 post-50 level players can't even speedrun a normal dungeon? What's your next stop on your route? Bronze age?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

My conclusion is purely logical. If you have plenty of friends, and like to play with like-minded people, then why don't you run dungeons with them instead of PUGging and then complaining that randoms aren't the way you want them to ?

Because then people will never want to PUG since everybody will be terrible. No one would even think of using group finder if chance of finding a somewhat decent player was next to impossible. And nobody would do group content except selected few of elites, and trials would be shut closed for anyone that isn't one of your friends or other elites. You don't think even one step ahead, do you?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As long as you don't provide a sensible answer to this one, I'll have to conclude that you have no friends, or not enough. Whether it's related to "social skills"... is the next logical question.

As far as I can see in this topic alone I've already potentially earned two friends while all you get are ironic insightfuls. Not bragging, just stating the obvious

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I for one have enough friends to not burden PUG people for dungeons which I know I'm slightly too weak for. Which is of course an entirely different issue than yours, which is to find people worthy of your company in a dungeon ?

I find it extremely funny that you're trying to project your issues onto me without even knowing anything about me. I'll just say that when I run with PUGs and usually I carry them, and I'm totally happy about lending a helping hand

Magdalina wrote: »

Oh come on @Magdalina , spare yourself a divorce-within-two-days

Are you getting jealous because he didn't even reply to you?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, I'll keep on repeating that because that's the truth : ESO is not designed as a competitive game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I am remembering it correctly.

You don't.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He's the one coming to the forums complaining that he's been kicked by a group of alleged bad players for asking one of them to change his bar to slot one skill. He's the one who couldn't get over it and needed the sympathy of the whole community...

So let me get this straight... you're saying that feeling of a person that has some weird social issues should be respected and everyone should get into this uncomfortable setting expecting a minefield of a social interaction with everybody...
While saying that a guy can't complain about being unjustly kicked? If that's not the Oxford definition of hypocrisy then I don't know what that is.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

None of us was there, right ? But the fact is, 4 people were there, among which 3 decided it was "demanding" enough to instant-kick.

Judging by how many people here thinking that asking to swap a skill for a single run is equivalent to some sort of harassment demanding abuse it wouldn't be uncommon to find 3 people who have strange way of perceiving things.
Also there's a thing that people tend to follow blindly without questioning.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers these days, that makes them think that having a thick skin is better than not needing one at all ?

If you have no skin you'll die of blood loss, bacterial infection and thermal shock on your own. It's rather unnatural to have no skin at all, and definitely not good for your health. Get it where I'm going with this?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, remember that what you call "casuals" are the overwhelming majority in this game. Like in any non-competitive game. Whenever you PUG, you'll get grouped with them, statistically far more often than with people like you. I understand that you would like things to be the other way around, but they're not. The fact is, you're the minority and should adapt... or keep on qqing.

Well first of all I never said I'm on top of leaderboards of anything, I'm quite a filthy casual myself. And second... Did you just seriously say that a good minority should stop being good and instead adapt to a playstyle where 4 post-50 level players can't even speedrun a normal dungeon? What's your next stop on your route? Bronze age?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

My conclusion is purely logical. If you have plenty of friends, and like to play with like-minded people, then why don't you run dungeons with them instead of PUGging and then complaining that randoms aren't the way you want them to ?

Because then people will never want to PUG since everybody will be terrible. No one would even think of using group finder if chance of finding a somewhat decent player was next to impossible. And nobody would do group content except selected few of elites, and trials would be shut closed for anyone that isn't one of your friends or other elites. You don't think even one step ahead, do you?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As long as you don't provide a sensible answer to this one, I'll have to conclude that you have no friends, or not enough. Whether it's related to "social skills"... is the next logical question.

As far as I can see in this topic alone I've already potentially earned two friends while all you get are ironic insightfuls. Not bragging, just stating the obvious

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I for one have enough friends to not burden PUG people for dungeons which I know I'm slightly too weak for. Which is of course an entirely different issue than yours, which is to find people worthy of your company in a dungeon ?

I find it extremely funny that you're trying to project your issues onto me without even knowing anything about me. I'll just say that when I run with PUGs and usually I carry them, and I'm totally happy about lending a helping hand

Magdalina wrote: »

Oh come on @Magdalina , spare yourself a divorce-within-two-days

Are you getting jealous because he didn't even reply to you?

That was a pleasure to read. On point.

*Edit* I feel a little bad, I stepped out of the conversation with them because it was painful to read what they had to say and you have held the line on them so well. My B.

ShadowMole25 · September 2017

So the main problem that I see is that you requested a skill that required the healer to run a destruction staff. Maybe they didn't run one and used restoration/sword and shield. Maybe they already had the skill slotted, but didn't like the fact that you were trying to change their build before seeing how it performed and thought that you might make more of these requests later on.

Now I'm pretty open to criticism from people, but only after they have seen how I perform or if I ask for advice. I would also be open to listening to an explanation of the mechanics of a dungeon if I have never done it before an from that I would adjust my build accordingly.

Basically, if you want me to change my build, even explain why the mechanics of the dungeon require a certain skill or analyze how my current build does first and explain how I could play better. Granted, I'm just a casual PvP player, so what do I know?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

So the main problem that I see is that you requested a skill that required the healer to run a destruction staff. Maybe they didn't run one and used restoration/sword and shield. Maybe they already had the skill slotted, but didn't like the fact that you were trying to change their build before seeing how it performed and thought that you might make more of these requests later on.

Now I'm pretty open to criticism from people, but only after they have seen how I perform or if I ask for advice. I would also be open to listening to an explanation of the mechanics of a dungeon if I have never done it before an from that I would adjust my build accordingly.

Basically, if you want me to change my build, even explain why the mechanics of the dungeon require a certain skill or analyze how my current build does first and explain how I could play better. Granted, I'm just a casual PvP player, so what do I know?

If they said "Dont have destro" we move on and I slot it. I asked, they insta kicked. That is the whole point lol..

The other stuff is sooooo pointless..
1) Not changing a build just asking for a skill that is commonly used by healers
2) Wait and see how they perform? Oh lordy. I just wanted 18k Pen, dear lord save us from the evil I have started lol...

ShadowMole25 · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

So the main problem that I see is that you requested a skill that required the healer to run a destruction staff. Maybe they didn't run one and used restoration/sword and shield. Maybe they already had the skill slotted, but didn't like the fact that you were trying to change their build before seeing how it performed and thought that you might make more of these requests later on.

Now I'm pretty open to criticism from people, but only after they have seen how I perform or if I ask for advice. I would also be open to listening to an explanation of the mechanics of a dungeon if I have never done it before an from that I would adjust my build accordingly.

Basically, if you want me to change my build, even explain why the mechanics of the dungeon require a certain skill or analyze how my current build does first and explain how I could play better. Granted, I'm just a casual PvP player, so what do I know?

If they said "Dont have destro" we move on and I slot it. I asked, they insta kicked. That is the whole point lol..

The other stuff is sooooo pointless..
1) Not changing a build just asking for a skill that is commonly used by healers
2) Wait and see how they perform? Oh lordy. I just wanted 18k Pen, dear lord save us from the evil I have started lol...

Personally, I don't take preemptive advice unless it is accompanied with an explanation. That is not to say that I condone them insta kicking you though.

A better way to start that might have been, "The bosses in this dungeon have a lot of resistance and we need a source of Major Breach and/or Major Fracture in order to do any significant damage." This way you are explaining mechanics, while not requesting a specific skill from one person. For all you know, the tank is running Pierce Armor, which would make Elemental Drain redundant or maybe the other DPS is a nightblade with Mark Target.

Quaesivi · September 2017

To start with, I have been maining a healer for the better half of this game's life. And I'm certainly not optimized, on the sense that I actually heal as a dunmer. Sure, a templar, with a restoration staff and spc/worm gear, but still, not maximized as it could have been with an altmer, per say.

And chiming into the discussion, there is only one more thing I'd say, you lost me at "pls", see, now if you actually took the time to write please, it would warrant some sort of kindness.

But really, "pls", it is just beggars talk, or 5 year-olds, so yea, certainly I'd not go as far as kicking you, per say, but I'd make sure that you would die at least once every boss, pureply for no reason other than I can.

Petty? Yes, certainly. Afterall manners are important. Heck, I'd even accept "Hey, do you have ele drain slotted" or something. But straight away saying "slot ele drain pls" is just, yup, that's right, annoying.

It is not about the optimization/maximization, it is not about healers or pugs, simply because you said "pls" Not elitist, hell I only completed only one vet trial simply because I don't have the time to sit for hours. And yes when necessary I do try to explain mechanics to dungeons if people do not know, but more often than not, when you try to explain something to a first timer, they actually respond with "kick me or leave", for ball's sake, I'm trying to help us all, but I get cussed for it by the "play however you want"ers.

Magdalina · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Oh come on @Magdalina , spare yourself a divorce-within-two-days

Are you getting jealous because he didn't even reply to you?

I'd just like to point out this is a she

And I did reply to @anitajoneb17_ESO. She(I think this is a she? Correct me if I'm wrong) and I have a rather long history of butting heads into "casual vs elitists" debates lol. For what that's worth, I respect them trying to be respectful to their opponents and stay logical til the end rather than jump flatout to personal attacks under pressure, but I fail to grasp their logic I'm afraid. It escapes me why someone seemingly reasonable and intelligent would be so deadset on defending the "hardcore casual", aka "burn in hell but I will not adapt for you/my team" style and going as far as basically say "progression is bad because it makes people not progressing feel bad"

OrphanHelgen · September 2017

Vet dungeon should be some group balanced to make the life easier for all of you. Simple stuff like combat prayer and elemental drain and the dd at least try to do some dps, is quite necessary imh. Raging at a healer without spellpower cure is not needed, but when the tank doesnt have a taunt on his bar and uses the dragon leap ultimate to remove all the adds from your aoe, yes you have the right to be frustrated.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Aenthel wrote: »

To start with, I have been maining a healer for the better half of this game's life. And I'm certainly not optimized, on the sense that I actually heal as a dunmer. Sure, a templar, with a restoration staff and spc/worm gear, but still, not maximized as it could have been with an altmer, per say.

And chiming into the discussion, there is only one more thing I'd say, you lost me at "pls", see, now if you actually took the time to write please, it would warrant some sort of kindness.

But really, "pls", it is just beggars talk, or 5 year-olds, so yea, certainly I'd not go as far as kicking you, per say, but I'd make sure that you would die at least once every boss, pureply for no reason other than I can.

Petty? Yes, certainly. Afterall manners are important. Heck, I'd even accept "Hey, do you have ele drain slotted" or something. But straight away saying "slot ele drain pls" is just, yup, that's right, annoying.

It is not about the optimization/maximization, it is not about healers or pugs, simply because you said "pls" Not elitist, hell I only completed only one vet trial simply because I don't have the time to sit for hours. And yes when necessary I do try to explain mechanics to dungeons if people do not know, but more often than not, when you try to explain something to a first timer, they actually respond with "kick me or leave", for ball's sake, I'm trying to help us all, but I get cussed for it by the "play however you want"ers.

Lol at your irrational hatred of "pls".

I am bis gear and solo most vets, good luck. HOWEVER remember this though.

Manners are important but hey letting people die for your weird anger at people saying pls is good manners.

Vet trials do not take hours. At this point (remember before + This) I think you may do less heals as a healer than my funnel weaving..

Oh so you do explain mechanics to people, I find it weird you are rude enough to "let someone die multiple times" if they say "pls" because its not "please" yet you are saint enough to tech the little ones how to play. After all you have finished ZERO trials. I guess you only speak from experience as well?

Lexynide · September 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I fail to grasp their logic I'm afraid. It escapes me why someone seemingly reasonable and intelligent would be so deadset on defending the "hardcore casual", aka "burn in hell but I will not adapt for you/my team" style and going as far as basically say "progression is bad because it makes people not progressing feel bad"

The issue here is a bit deeper than just plain "being a hardcore casual". There is a whole set of twisted definitions that in the end result into "what I say matters, what you say doesn't" and overall attitude of "my way or the highway".
It was repeatedly stated that there were no demands, no arguing and no insults - just a simple, harmless request that was met with hostility - and it was ignored.
It's the whole "only my feelings matter" kind of mentality that is creating the trouble. OP did not request something that has no use to anybody except him - everyone in group benefits from improved performance of every single member, including the aforementioned healer. You can't just go and claim that OP is egoistic because he only asked for a good thing for the entire group, all 4 members of it.

Aenthel wrote: »

But really, "pls", it is just beggars talk, or 5 year-olds, so yea, certainly I'd not go as far as kicking you, per say, but I'd make sure that you would die at least once every boss, pureply for no reason other than I can.

Petty? Yes, certainly. Afterall manners are important. Heck, I'd even accept "Hey, do you have ele drain slotted" or something. But straight away saying "slot ele drain pls" is just, yup, that's right, annoying.

That's quite sad. We have come to a point where the very words of politeness mean nothing to some people. Like a spoiled kids they demand special treatment for no reason and common courtesy is nothing to them. And you're ready to go as far as to deliberately wipe someone because he wasn't "polite" enough.
Perhaps more people should just outright command what to do to people like you and not even waste time trying to be polite. Sometimes people understand the value of things that they had only when they lose them.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I fail to grasp their logic I'm afraid. It escapes me why someone seemingly reasonable and intelligent would be so deadset on defending the "hardcore casual", aka "burn in hell but I will not adapt for you/my team" style and going as far as basically say "progression is bad because it makes people not progressing feel bad"

The issue here is a bit deeper than just plain "being a hardcore casual". There is a whole set of twisted definitions that in the end result into "what I say matters, what you say doesn't" and overall attitude of "my way or the highway".
It was repeatedly stated that there were no demands, no arguing and no insults - just a simple, harmless request that was met with hostility - and it was ignored.
It's the whole "only my feelings matter" kind of mentality that is creating the trouble. OP did not request something that has no use to anybody except him - everyone in group benefits from improved performance of every single member, including the aforementioned healer. You can't just go and claim that OP is egoistic because he only asked for a good thing for the entire group, all 4 members of it.

Aenthel wrote: »

But really, "pls", it is just beggars talk, or 5 year-olds, so yea, certainly I'd not go as far as kicking you, per say, but I'd make sure that you would die at least once every boss, pureply for no reason other than I can.

Petty? Yes, certainly. Afterall manners are important. Heck, I'd even accept "Hey, do you have ele drain slotted" or something. But straight away saying "slot ele drain pls" is just, yup, that's right, annoying.

That's quite sad. We have come to a point where the very words of politeness mean nothing to some people. Like a spoiled kids they demand special treatment for no reason and common courtesy is nothing to them. And you're ready to go as far as to deliberately wipe someone because he wasn't "polite" enough.
Perhaps more people should just outright command what to do to people like you and not even waste time trying to be polite. Sometimes people understand the value of things that they had only when they lose them.

Its even worse than that. I am saying the exact same word but "pls" not "please" and thats enough to make him want to kill me over and over.

So to EVERYONE who said before "No one would kick someone for saying this unless he did MORE, Obviously"... just look at this person. This person by his own admission should be enough to make you realise that these aliens do exist.

VvardeFellow · September 2017

Is this a statement of a hypothetical situation? An incomplete sentence? A random thought? A rant? What is it? Folks shouldn't have to read between the lines or assume they know what you mean.

Quaesivi · September 2017

There is a difference between not being polite "enough" and not being polite at all, his version is definitely not polite, it is demanding, which is the issue here that one might find.

And about the vet trials thing, the first and only time I did was when they first came out, so yea, they took hours couse nobody knew what the hell anyone was supposed to do. And you know, real life, things, stuff like that.

But the most fun part of it all is trolling, fairly, and besides I admitted to being petty, which is the fun part of healing, to get me through those tough parts of sitting back.

But all in all, I rarely run into this much problematic pugs, so I'm kinda assuming this is more of an NA issue, for pug part at least.

Dantaria · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not discussing here for the pleasure to bug you. The gap between good/bad players (whatever ppl call it) is an increasingly growing problem and I'd like people to discuss it in a constructive manner.

LOL. Just LOL. You made all effort in the world to defend hardcore play-how-you-want crowd and then ultimately made your whole point invalid.

So "the gap between good/bad players" is a problem. Well, breaking news - in the current state of the game you learn from other players.

You learn exactly from requests "Heal pls use Ele Drain on bosses" from high-level players. If you're low-lvl and you PUG normal and you see medium-high CP player who asks for a skill you maybe never heard of... Well, sure, you can kick them. Or you can start solving the problem of "the gap between good/bad players" by asking 'What is this and why should I slot it? Sorry, new to healing'. Surpriiiiiiiiiise! In vast majority of cases you will end up with nice explanation. In many cases you will also end up with additional information about penetration and resource management ('Oh, btw, if you ever want to do endgame content, you might start leveling Undaunted for Orbs').

The gap between good and bad players is reduced by communication between good and bad players. 'Heal pls slot Ele Drain'. 'Tank pls don't kite boss, you take him out of my dots, so i can't dmg'. 'Tank pls slot grip so you can stack those pesky adds'...

If good players stay silent, the gap will only grow. So what do you want in the end, hmm? To solve the problem of the gap? Well, then sorry. We will ask you to slot Ele Drain/Talons/Warhorn/etc. Or was it just said to appear more tolerant? Well, duh then.

Horowonnoe · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Let's make one thing clear here @Magdalina : I don't know you ingame but I've read enough of your posts here to know that you're no elitist, and that you do everything so that people are happy while playing together.

That being said, if you find yourself too often in PUGs carrying other people up to a point that it's no fun anymore, stop pugging. People won't change. Complaining won't change. Offering help and advice, depending on the tone, will help, but only to a certain extent. If it's no fun to you anymore, stop pugging.

Magdalina wrote: »

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way?

Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.

Don't worry, players who want to get good always find their way to people like you to help them getting good.

Thats funny, before you said its understandable to kick someone for asking a healer to use ele drain before starting the dungeon.. even if they say please.

Yet now its ok to offer advice if you are nice which I assume includes asking someone to use a skill if you say pls.

Hmm.

I would probably wait until we kill the first boss and see how it goes. If it is a dlc dungeon and i am doing most of the dps and notice there is no ele, i might ask the healer to apply it then. But imo its too early to start asking things before anything is even killed. Maybe the healer is the best healer on the server leveling their new toon? Gotta wait and see at least the first mobs.

Arizona_Steve · September 2017

All this talk of kicking and elitism is why I have never tried a group dungeon. I don't consider myself a good player by any stretch of the imagination - I play this game for fun and don't spend my time min/maxing, practicing rotations and poring over spreadsheets.

paulsimonps · September 2017

4019765+_795a37436e3b6c657e37b205721bba73.jpg

I love this thread, its pure fricking gold. I remember I once suggested to a healer that perhaps instead of remembrance he could use Nova in the dungeon, a simple suggestion, would have happily gone forward with him using that ulti. He responded with: "Are you telling me how to play?" I said "Kinda?" in a confused manner. He instantly left the group. I laughed so fricking hard after that.

@Lexynide Thank you for that amazing post you did a few comments ago

Kicking someone for asking if they can run one of the best support skills in the game is ludicrous. Even a response with "No, if you want it do it yourself" or "I use Siphon Spirit" would have been better than kicking someone like that.

Play how you want has a huge fricking limit to it. If you go in as a tank with light armor and 2 bows you would be the biggest A hole I know, if you do it intentionally knowing how bad that is. You should be the best you can for your team, not force people to carry you, I am all for helping new people learn and such but there is a limit to what can be and should be carried.

ShadowMole25 · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not discussing here for the pleasure to bug you. The gap between good/bad players (whatever ppl call it) is an increasingly growing problem and I'd like people to discuss it in a constructive manner.

LOL. Just LOL. You made all effort in the world to defend hardcore play-how-you-want crowd and then ultimately made your whole point invalid.

So "the gap between good/bad players" is a problem. Well, breaking news - in the current state of the game you learn from other players.

You learn exactly from requests "Heal pls use Ele Drain on bosses" from high-level players. If you're low-lvl and you PUG normal and you see medium-high CP player who asks for a skill you maybe never heard of... Well, sure, you can kick them. Or you can start solving the problem of "the gap between good/bad players" by asking 'What is this and why should I slot it? Sorry, new to healing'. Surpriiiiiiiiiise! In vast majority of cases you will end up with nice explanation. In many cases you will also end up with additional information about penetration and resource management ('Oh, btw, if you ever want to do endgame content, you might start leveling Undaunted for Orbs').

The gap between good and bad players is reduced by communication between good and bad players. 'Heal pls slot Ele Drain'. 'Tank pls don't kite boss, you take him out of my dots, so i can't dmg'. 'Tank pls slot grip so you can stack those pesky adds'...

If good players stay silent, the gap will only grow. So what do you want in the end, hmm? To solve the problem of the gap? Well, then sorry. We will ask you to slot Ele Drain/Talons/Warhorn/etc. Or was it just said to appear more tolerant? Well, duh then.

Then maybe the good players should ask ahead of time if anyone would like an explanation of the mechanics and explain certain things, otherwise it comes off as being demanding even if you say pls. Instead of 'Tank pls don't kite boss, you take him out of my dots, so i can't dmg', try 'Tank try to keep the boss still, so that I can hit him with dots, otherwise he isn't going to die faster enough and will kill us all'.

Dantaria · September 2017

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

Instead of 'Tank pls don't kite boss, you take him out of my dots, so i can't dmg', try 'Tank try to keep the boss still, so that I can hit him with dots, otherwise he isn't going to die faster enough and will kill us all'.

Really? I, DD, have to explain that if "i can't dmg" the boss will not die fast enough?

There is like... absolutely no difference between these two sentences.

You know what? Other peoples' unflattering interpretations of my words, other peoples' unflattering interpretations of my intentions, other peoples'... holy hell... burning desire to be offended are not my problem. Period.

KochDerDamonen · September 2017

I love that this thread is still running.

I also love how much effort some folks on this forum put into trying to convince themselves and others that there is not a large amount of folks playing this game that have no intention of communicating with their team in the slightest. I PUG'd just about every pledge for something like a year of my time playing ESO, as a healer.

I went through all the phases, spamming BoL, spamming Healing Springs, discovering HoTs and also spamming those in there, realizing that that's all way too much healing and adding a destro staff for some light AoE damage and buffs, to finally giving and doing some PvP to get warhorn. Along the way I had a lot of DDs ask me to use this or that, or do some such thing in plenty rude enough ways including name calling and outright leaving after dropping off their complaints. Also including setting down everything we were doing to properly find the problem and solve it, or them just moving on and carrying my behind. Along the way I learned what classes provide what buffs on their own, what spells certain classes tend to want the most, when to let the Stamplar use their own repentance (when it was relevant), what sets I can get away with using, to carry excess food and potions for the under-prepared. I came to the point where I would be the one stopping a dungeon to go craft someone new gear, just to get through it someone's first time.

^ All of that is entirely useless when you meet the one(or whole group of) silent or antisocial PUGs who won't respond to a question, who won't accept a mild request, who will refuse a basic tip. Who will respond to any of that with not just silence, or refusal, but with raw upset. "I play how I want" "OMG I'm not meta!!"

Don't dillude yourselves into thinking one has to be rude to illicit these responses in PUGs. Anything shy of being silent along with the group is a sin to someone. Just let the run turn into a circus show, if someone asks for help you may as well immediately drop group and add that person to a new run. Even if you can't find another group, I can almost guarantee you'll have an easier time trying to duo whatever dungeon you're doing with the inquisitive player than you would with them + two meatbags to rez every 20 seconds.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

Because then people will never want to PUG since everybody will be terrible. No one would even think of using group finder if chance of finding a somewhat decent player was next to impossible. And nobody would do group content except selected few of elites, and trials would be shut closed for anyone that isn't one of your friends or other elites. You don't think even one step ahead, do you?

Do you REALLY mean you're sacrificing yourself by PUGging instead of running with your friends, for the good of the overall community, which wouldn't survive without you PUGging just for them, for their own good ?

By all means, stop it. Thanks but no thanks. Really. There's no need. Just don't. We'll manage. Bye...

jwalker524 · September 2017

Wow... just read this whole thread while installing the game. Think I may just stick to Skyrim no matter how cool a multiplayer Elderscrolls game sounds... had the game for a while, messed around up to like 20 or so at one point, thought of maybe giving it a real go this time... but man, seems like a new player would just be eviscerated and have to deal with a crapton of drama just for trying to learn...

In an MMO you can't just "do what you want" but getting pissed at people and causing a scene when they might legit just not understand or know how things work yet... eh, I'll go back to single player stuff.

Thanks all for convincing me not to finish the install of the game.

Cheers.

Lexynide · September 2017

Aenthel wrote: »

There is a difference between not being polite "enough" and not being polite at all, his version is definitely not polite, it is demanding, which is the issue here that one might find.

Let's take apart the whole "Can the healer slot ele drain pls" message, shall we?

First thing we see right of the start is "can" - an auxiliary verb, commonly indicating possibility, a request for permission, or generally a request. You notice something? It's not an order - it's a request with certain probability of happening. You can or cannot do the requested thing, you can accept or decline. Nobody is telling you to necessarily do it. If you decline - sure no problem, nobody is ordering you to do anything.
Next thing we see is "the healer" - again, nothing offensive, a general addressing to a person of certain role. Nobody said "hey, you, that stupid guy with the staff" or anything offensive.
And then finally we have "please" - in case "can" wasn't enough to give conditional mood to the whole sentence, this is pretty much nails it down. An additional layer of "possibility" and "not pushing the person to do it".

Yet here you are saying that "there was nothing polite in what he said, it's just pure rudeness and demanding".
You know what a rude demanding would sound like? Like this: "hey you, loser, slot the damn drain". Yep, this is what rudeness actually sounds like. Not like what you imagine it to be in that clearly spoiled vision of yours.

Dantaria wrote: »

LOL. Just LOL. You made all effort in the world to defend hardcore play-how-you-want crowd and then ultimately made your whole point invalid.

Actually it happened right after she said "I don't run with PUGs when I'm not sure I can do it alone, I got friends to help me". If she has a lot of friends helping her with group content then I'm not exactly sure why she is even speaking for the PUGs in first place. She simply has no need for learning the game and for some reason advocates for others to follow her example of... I'm not even sure what. Becoming a scrub friend of few elitists that can carry her through group content because she has the privilege to not bother with getting good I guess?

KochDerDamonen · September 2017

jwalker524 wrote: »

Wow... just read this whole thread while installing the game. Think I may just stick to Skyrim no matter how cool a multiplayer Elderscrolls game sounds... had the game for a while, messed around up to like 20 or so at one point, thought of maybe giving it a real go this time... but man, seems like a new player would just be eviscerated and have to deal with a crapton of drama just for trying to learn...

In an MMO you can't just "do what you want" but getting pissed at people and causing a scene when they might legit just not understand or know how things work yet... eh, I'll go back to single player stuff.

Thanks all for convincing me not to finish the install of the game.

Cheers.

@walker524 No one has done any screaming at new players in this thread. People will absolutely love you, if whilst playing your response to a request or bit of advice isn't "Don't speak to me elitist sssscum!!!1!" or silence.

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

All this talk of kicking and elitism is why I have never tried a group dungeon. I don't consider myself a good player by any stretch of the imagination - I play this game for fun and don't spend my time min/maxing, practicing rotations and poring over spreadsheets.

@Arizona_Steve (when the topic of the thread is getting kicked over nothing more than asking a person if they can use a particular spell, and has nothing to do with min/maxing or being elitist towards anyone)

sevomd69 · September 2017

To OP... i think it might have been better if your question would have been (after the first pull)..."Are any of you running Ele Drain?" then proceed with line of questioning from there... For all you know they might have all been running Ele Drain... but how would you know that since, you didn't even get to the first mobs?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

To OP... i think it might have been better if your question would have been (after the first pull)..."Are any of you running Ele Drain?" then proceed with line of questioning from there... For all you know they might have all been running Ele Drain... but how would you know that since, you didn't even get to the first mobs?

Forget it... he doesn't want to question himself by any mean. He just wants to be the victim here.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

Aenthel wrote: »

There is a difference between not being polite "enough" and not being polite at all, his version is definitely not polite, it is demanding, which is the issue here that one might find.

Let's take apart the whole "Can the healer slot ele drain pls" message, shall we?
First thing we see right of the start is "can" - an auxiliary verb, commonly indicating possibility, a request for permission, or generally a request. You notice something? It's not an order - it's a request with certain probability of happening. You can or cannot do the requested thing, you can accept or decline. Nobody is telling you to necessarily do it. If you decline - sure no problem, nobody is ordering you to do anything.

Next thing we see is "the healer" - again, nothing offensive, a general addressing to a person of certain role. Nobody said "hey, you, that stupid guy with the staff" or anything offensive.

And then finally we have "please" - in case "can" wasn't enough to give conditional mood to the whole sentence, this is pretty much nails it down. An additional layer of "possibility" and "not pushing the person to do it".

Yet here you are saying that "there was nothing polite in what he said, it's just pure rudeness and demanding".
You know what a rude demanding would sound like? Like this: "hey you, loser, slot the damn drain". Yep, this is what rudeness actually sounds like. Not like what you imagine it to be in that clearly spoiled vision of yours.

Dantaria wrote: »

LOL. Just LOL. You made all effort in the world to defend hardcore play-how-you-want crowd and then ultimately made your whole point invalid.

Actually it happened right after she said "I don't run with PUGs when I'm not sure I can do it alone, I got friends to help me". If she has a lot of friends helping her with group content then I'm not exactly sure why she is even speaking for the PUGs in first place. She simply has no need for learning the game and for some reason advocates for others to follow her example of... I'm not even sure what. Becoming a scrub friend of few elitists that can carry her through group content because she has the privilege to not bother with getting good I guess?

You are awesome.

sevomd69 wrote: »

To OP... i think it might have been better if your question would have been (after the first pull)..."Are any of you running Ele Drain?" then proceed with line of questioning from there... For all you know they might have all been running Ele Drain... but how would you know that since, you didn't even get to the first mobs?

Besides the point. I asked PRE boss fight. Nothing wrong with that. IF they have it they say already got it on. If they dont they either put it on or dont. It was a simple question asked nicely.

People are so *** sensitive. If I am told to use a different skill that helps the group I dont have a sook... simple..