Next time you scream elitist.

Vaoh · September 2017

Astrid_V wrote: »

That's why I have ele drain slotted on my magblade DD when I pug dungeons

^^^^
I don't want to be that guy that tells people what to do. If a healer doesn't have Ele Drain slotted (around 50% of my pug runs) then I'll slot Ele Drain instead of my execute. Most dungeons are so easy my group can use whatever they want and we'll be just fine.

Linaleah · September 2017

Ruse wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

no. I'm so PETTY as I don't pug at all.

That's ... exactly opposite what you said previously, but OK. I do share your frustration with orbs, though I think I'm getting a little better at aiming them.

It's not so much about meta, or rigidity, or performing perfectly or whatever imo (I certainly don't). It's about having a modicum of respect for other people's time and about being a good team player. Not doing some incredibly simple things that increase group efficiency? That's being a bad team player. The "rigid" people are generally more respectful of other people's time than the "play how you want" crowd.

I have some builds I derp around on that aren't efficient but I just have fun with them. But I do that on my own time, not when I'm with others and can run something better. /2 coppers

By the way, using the word "literally" doesn't actual make something so. The OP didn't demand anything at all, he "literally" requested, lol.

no, I pretty much said "this is why I don't ever pug.

my using the word Petty was me quoting the person replying to me and attempting to be ironic.

that said. not everyone is capable of top performance. which is why there are varying difficulties, even when it comes to vet, which is why there are achievements that require higher end performance for those that can output it, while still allowing more casual players to complete content. slower. not without deaths. but still complete it.

you.

cannot

expect

let alone demand

random people you are thrown into a pug with to perform at the level you think they should be performing, and you cannot expect them to do what I do and give up on pugging all together. you cannot expect them not to want to experience variety of content this game has to offer. you are NOT a gatekeeper of group content. unless you are leading your own dungeon/trials group? you don't get to decide that someone must be this skilled to be allowed to join.

you cannot expect or count on them to play in specific ways with specific specs, using specific gear.

and last but not least... your definition of "better" is not someone else's definition of better. for you better seems to be efficiently. for someone else - being able to do something while still enjoying their less them meta builds they cannot perform with anyways.

there was a thread on these forums sometime ago, where OP stated that people should NOT religiously follow youtuber's meta builds and that person was absolutely right. those meta builds work for those youtubers, becasue said youtubers have 1. necessary dexterity 2. necessary group composition. the rest of us have to compensate and oftentimes, for a lot of people performance with the meta build is WORSE then performance with modified build that accounts for their capabilities and play style. becasue in vast majority of times - those meta builds are very VERY unforgiving of errors.

I don't use elemental drain, becasue my priority as a healer is to keep people alive. because my reflexes are not that of a 12 year old boy on 2 liters of mountain dew - I do not react to oh *** moments as quickly as someone younger, faster and just generally more skilled. so my priority is first and foremost to have resources available to get those heals out as well as not using up an extra global cool down that could mean a difference between a group member living, or dying. and that btw, is TOO playing to help the team. helping the team can take different forms. people like OP though expect and demand (yes demand, like I said, "please" does change the fact that first words out of their mouth was to ask for ability to be slotted, before they even started going through trash) a very specific style of playing. the kind that revolves around their version of "better"

and its pretty sad really. since this game seems to be all about variety and creative approaches, what with letting everyone use every weapon and all. players just have to go and ruin it by demanding a handful of meta builds or GTFO.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also is it elitist to ask people to get in voice chat so you can explain the mechanics of Na Kesh?

It is very elitist haha. Trying to explain how Planar Inhibitor works is also very elitist. Of course, its much better to get stuck there for 4 hours and give up. Basically every time you giving an advice or trying to explain something, youre ruining someone's unique playstyle. Once I was in a pug where someone got angry when asked to roll dodge from Spindle1 last boss aoe... That was after he died to every single explosion, of course.
Well, I guess some people think that "play as you want" means that you can clear vet dungeon by using /lute and /playdead.

Yea, its disheartening that some people here are actually saying I am in the wrong for asking NICELY for a healer to use ele drain lol.

You can understand why this is happening due to the endgame players reaction to almost anything nonmeta.

It used to be so bad if you tried to make a suggestion without having done VMA you didn't get to talk, whether it be on a support roll or not. If you were not using meta, you were kicked automatically.

Now we're backswinging to oversensitivity. The endgame community is it's own worst enemy in this reguard.

Dantaria · September 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't use elemental drain, becasue my priority as a healer is to keep people alive. because my reflexes are not that of a 12 year old boy on 2 liters of mountain dew - I do not react to oh *** moments as quickly as someone younger, faster and just generally more skilled. so my priority is first and foremost to have resources available to get those heals out as well as not using up an extra global cool down that could mean a difference between a group member living, or dying. and that btw, is TOO playing to help the team. helping the team can take different forms.

Jesus. And now you, @Linaleah, act like elitist, only you do it to yourself and actually kinda ruin it for yourself. You reeeeeally should take it easier

Repeat after me

As a healer you are NOT the only one responsible for everyone staying alive.

You cast your HoTs (Heal over Time): Ritual (if you're Templar), Mutagen, maybe a bit of Springs. That's it. That's enough for dungeon. In "oh s**t" case - BoL.

People dying under your HoTs have noone to blame but themselves. They run out of your HoTs begind your back? They die and it's their problem. They stupidly stand in red? They die and it's their problem.

All this jazz about buffing your group actually comes exactly from the fact that dungeons do not require a lot of healing. Ritual + Mutagen and random Springs (or BoL if "oh s**t") here and there are enough for competent DDs and Tanks. If your teammates are competent, you like... literally have nothing else to do but buff them with Combat Prayer, provide Ele Drain, etc.

If they are not competent... How is this your problem?

If cookie-cutter HA petsorc in vHoF skin doesn't react in time on 1st vVoM boss, when she gets blue beam so all damage is reflected to her, and gets served by her own critting scamp, whose fault is that? Damn right. Totally true story, by the way.

Here I was, lying dead with all my fancy skins and titles, and do you truly think I for a second blamed a healer? Nope. Even god himself wouldn't heal me through my critting scamp which I didn't call back in time. My own fault.

You can't heal stupid, so why even try? Let them die and let them learn from it. If they don't - well, not your fault again.

Linaleah · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't use elemental drain, becasue my priority as a healer is to keep people alive. because my reflexes are not that of a 12 year old boy on 2 liters of mountain dew - I do not react to oh *** moments as quickly as someone younger, faster and just generally more skilled. so my priority is first and foremost to have resources available to get those heals out as well as not using up an extra global cool down that could mean a difference between a group member living, or dying. and that btw, is TOO playing to help the team. helping the team can take different forms.

Jesus. And now you, @Linaleah, act like elitist, only you do it to yourself and actually kinda ruin it for yourself. You reeeeeally should take it easier

Repeat after me As a healer you are NOT the only one responsible for everyone staying alive.

You cast your HoTs (Heal over Time): Ritual (if you're Templar), Mutagen, maybe a bit of Springs. That's it. That's enough for dungeon. In "oh s**t" case - BoL.

People dying under your HoTs have noone to blame but themselves. They run out of your HoTs begind your back? They die and it's their problem. They stupidly stand in red? They die and it's their problem.

All this jazz about buffing your group actually comes exactly from the fact that dungeons do not require a lot of healing. Ritual + Mutagen and random Springs (or BoL if "oh s**t") here and there are enough for competent DDs and Tanks. If your teammates are competent, you like... literally have nothing else to do but buff them with Combat Prayer, provide Ele Drain, etc.

If they are not competent... How is this your problem?

If cookie-cutter HA petsorc in vHoF skin doesn't react in time on 1st vVoM boss, when she gets blue beam so all damage is reflected to her, and gets served by her own critting scamp, whose fault is that? Damn right. Totally true story, by the way.

Here I was, lying dead with all my fancy skins and titles, and do you truly think I for a second blamed a healer? Nope. Even god himself wouldn't heal me through my critting scamp which I didn't call back in time. My own fault.

You can't heal stupid, so why even try? Let them die and let them learn from it. If they don't - well, not your fault again.

I'm not being elitist, quite the opposite. I simply cannot expect other people to be the players that I cannot even expect myself to be. in the end, I would like to actualy finish the dungeon. which means accepting that everyone will probably be very imperfect, including me, and then working with what we have instead of demanding for people to be perfect. I'm not perfect. why should i expect others to be perfect?

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person. because most people are NOT someone who has anywhere near the skill or ability etc etc of getting anywhere near those skins. STOP EXPECTING THEM TO BE.

Dantaria · September 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person.

For healing imperfect you have BoL and that's more then enough

If you're templar, of course. You're templar or warden?

I myself also run Templar healer. I pugged with it, healed trials and all that jazz. And honestly - combo Mutagen + Ritual (personally I prefer Extended, btw) is extremely powerful. Extremely.

Like, seriously. Next time you go to dungeon, type in chat "Guys, please try to stick together so I could heal you better", keep your Mutagen + Ritual up and just step aside and observe how much that combo does on its own. Throw occasional BoL if things go south, but the truth is - in most cases Mutagen + Ritual will heal them alright and they won't die even if you don't react in time.

Noone needs to be perfect. Mutagen + Ritual + BoL is enough to cover healing even in bad group unless they scatter around like flies but if they do - pretty much nothing can save them.

You honestly worry too much, imo. Only singular cases - like poison phase on vDCII last boss, execute phase of last boss in vRoM, etc - require extreme healing. In dungeons incoming damage really isn't that high. In vast majority of cases Mutagen + Ritual + BoL (+ some Springs, though personally I don't even use them in dungeons, I have Combat Prayer instead for "Oh, need a mass heal!") pretty much covers it.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · September 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't use elemental drain, becasue my priority as a healer is to keep people alive. because my reflexes are not that of a 12 year old boy on 2 liters of mountain dew - I do not react to oh *** moments as quickly as someone younger, faster and just generally more skilled. so my priority is first and foremost to have resources available to get those heals out as well as not using up an extra global cool down that could mean a difference between a group member living, or dying. and that btw, is TOO playing to help the team. helping the team can take different forms.

Jesus. And now you, @Linaleah, act like elitist, only you do it to yourself and actually kinda ruin it for yourself. You reeeeeally should take it easier

Repeat after me As a healer you are NOT the only one responsible for everyone staying alive.

You cast your HoTs (Heal over Time): Ritual (if you're Templar), Mutagen, maybe a bit of Springs. That's it. That's enough for dungeon. In "oh s**t" case - BoL.

People dying under your HoTs have noone to blame but themselves. They run out of your HoTs begind your back? They die and it's their problem. They stupidly stand in red? They die and it's their problem.

All this jazz about buffing your group actually comes exactly from the fact that dungeons do not require a lot of healing. Ritual + Mutagen and random Springs (or BoL if "oh s**t") here and there are enough for competent DDs and Tanks. If your teammates are competent, you like... literally have nothing else to do but buff them with Combat Prayer, provide Ele Drain, etc.

If they are not competent... How is this your problem?

If cookie-cutter HA petsorc in vHoF skin doesn't react in time on 1st vVoM boss, when she gets blue beam so all damage is reflected to her, and gets served by her own critting scamp, whose fault is that? Damn right. Totally true story, by the way.

Here I was, lying dead with all my fancy skins and titles, and do you truly think I for a second blamed a healer? Nope. Even god himself wouldn't heal me through my critting scamp which I didn't call back in time. My own fault.

You can't heal stupid, so why even try? Let them die and let them learn from it. If they don't - well, not your fault again.

I'm not being elitist, quite the opposite. I simply cannot expect other people to be the players that I cannot even expect myself to be. in the end, I would like to actualy finish the dungeon. which means accepting that everyone will probably be very imperfect, including me, and then working with what we have instead of demanding for people to be perfect. I'm not perfect. why should i expect others to be perfect?

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person. because most people are NOT someone who has anywhere near the skill or ability etc etc of getting anywhere near those skins. STOP EXPECTING THEM TO BE.

I don't think anyone expects you to have lightning fast reflexes. But what ppl are say is that for a healer to only heal in a dungeon and nothing else is like a dps to spam light attacks with an occasional ability here and there. By not using ele drain your only hurting yourself and the pug groups your in ability to complete the dungeon.

generalmyrick · September 2017

I healed vet falkreath like a boss with no healing springs or ele drain! Do go away you annoying little trolls with your demands.

SnubbS · September 2017

I have such little faith in any random player I get in dungeons that I'm just happy if they know how to hit a button. My last healer wore 2pc Kena, procc'd the Kena seemingly on cooldown and otherwise did nothing apart from hit Ritual of Retribution, Mutagen and Heavy Resto—and that's the level of play I expect from group queuing into a Dungeon. The fact of the matter is that everything outside of the four newest dungeons can be at least completed by "Healers" as awful as the one I've described provided they're carried by DDs who can actually hit buttons.

Honestly, I wish the difficulty of all dungeons was ramped up massively—something along the lines of ICP when it launched. I actually really annoys me that people like this:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Can actually complete things, while having the #PlAyHoWuWaNt attitude.

When you get to the bottom line though, I really don't see the point of trying to help people with this mentality—or even asking them to slot an ability. If someone wants to run around a dungeon with 5k regen, spamming breath and doing not much else—they've consciously made the decision to be an awful player, they want to be awful at the game and we should respect that.

If a 5k regen BoL spamming "hEaLeR" wanted to learn, or at least get an idea of how to maximize their effectiveness, about an hour on Youtube would do it. However, that's not what they want—they aren't forced to do it because most dungeons are too easy, so why would they? #pLaYhOwUwAnT

Linaleah · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person.

For healing imperfect you have BoL and that's more then enough If you're templar, of course. You're templar or warden?

I myself also run Templar healer. I pugged with it, healed trials and all that jazz. And honestly - combo Mutagen + Ritual (personally I prefer Extended, btw) is extremely powerful. Extremely.

Like, seriously. Next time you go to dungeon, type in chat "Guys, please try to stick together so I could heal you better", keep your Mutagen + Ritual up and just step aside and observe how much that combo does on its own. Throw occasional BoL if things go south, but the truth is - in most cases Mutagen + Ritual will heal them alright and they won't die even if you don't react in time.

Noone needs to be perfect. Mutagen + Ritual + BoL is enough to cover healing even in bad group unless they scatter around like flies but if they do - pretty much nothing can save them.

You honestly worry too much, imo. Only singular cases - like poison phase on vDCII last boss, execute phase of last boss in vRoM, etc - require extreme healing. In dungeons incoming damage really isn't that high. In vast majority of cases Mutagen + Ritual + BoL (+ some Springs, though personally I don't even use them in dungeons, I have Combat Prayer instead for "Oh, need a mass heal!") pretty much covers it.

you just assumed that i had to be a templar or a warden, you are exhibiting elitism and not even realizing it. i heal on a sorc. a sorc who is not one of minmaxed races becasue "gasp" i wanted her to look a certain way and have a certain backstory. and guess what? most players are like me. not you. we , the poor saps, actualy bought into the whole "every class can do every role" idea that is one of these game's selling points, believe it or not.

and again. I'm not perfect. aside from playing non meta class? contrary to your seemingly unshakable belief, I do NOT have the reflexes for couple of hots to be enough and i do NOT run with people who have those reflexes either. your advice? is useless to normal players. because no, its not enough. I love how you just assume that if only you tell people what to do, they will just go ahead and do it. people don't work like that.

I don't think anyone expects you to have lightning fast reflexes. But what ppl are say is that for a healer to only heal in a dungeon and nothing else is like a dps to spam light attacks with an occasional ability here and there. By not using ele drain your only hurting yourself and the pug groups your in ability to complete the dungeon.

PRIMARY role of a healer is to HEAL. its to do their best to keep people alive so that THEY could perform THEIR roles. this takes precedence over EVERYTHING ELSE. moreover. different people have different comfort zones. you are STILL trying to tell me that if I don't play one rigid way, I'm a burden. its bloody HEIGHT of elitism. and its entirely unnecessary. we are not doing timed VMoL here, ffs, we are talking dungeons. in dungeons finder. with random pugs.

I give up.

its not like I plan on starting to pug anyways, I don't need this nonsense in my life.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

generalmyrick wrote: »

I healed vet falkreath like a boss with no healing springs or ele drain! Do go away you annoying little trolls with your demands.

And your team would have been even more efficient had you equipped ele drain.

Dantaria · September 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

contrary to your seemingly unshakable belief, I do NOT have the reflexes for couple of hots to be enough and i do NOT run with people who have those reflexes either.

What the hell? Okay, you heal on sorc, I got it, nothing wrong with that. But what the hell?

You. Do. Not. Have. Enough. Reflexes. For. Two. HoTs? o_O Two HoTs, which need to be recasted once in ~20 secs? o_O

You don't need reflexes. People, if you were a Templar, would heal on 2k+ every second without you doing anything and Mutagen is burst heal for when they fall beyond 20%. They fall beyond 20% - bam, they are at full health again.

Noone needs to be perfect in such setup. You all have everything and heal crazily.

Which reflexes are you talking about? o_O Skills heal for you. That was my point all along. Not "people should be perfect", not "run meta" - my point is that only healing in ESO is easy, because HoTs are so powerful, they save even bad players unless they go full stupid and stand in red forever.

Okay, you're a sorc. You don't have Ritual. Well, use Quick Siphon then. Quick Siphon + Mutagen = same ~2k heals per secons, Twilight Matriarch for "Oh s**t" instead of BoL, it's the same.

You're a sorc - nothing changes. Your teammates still have ~2k incoming HPS, burst heal if they fall under 20% and you have "Oh s**t" option.

This heals them alright and you don't need to do much. You have all the time in the world for Ele Drain, Combat Prayer and all that jazz.

Which elitism? Under 2k HoTs with Muragen burst people can even stay in red, just not for long - but the room for mistake is enormous. And this is achievable on every class.

If you constantly wipe under 2k HoTs, Mutagen and you casting Matriarch... Well, sorry, it's not even "we don't have good reflexes" - you're playing with your eyes closed.

grannas211 · September 2017

No sense arguing. The "anti meta" crowd are ironically very elitism in their own right.

witchdoctor · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

All this jazz about buffing your group actually comes exactly from the fact that dungeons do not require a lot of healing. Ritual + Mutagen and random Springs (or BoL if "oh s**t") here and there are enough for competent DDs and Tanks. If your teammates are competent, you like... literally have nothing else to do but buff them with Combat Prayer, provide Ele Drain, etc.

Its weird getting into a group that is totally on point. Weird in the sense that, at first, I expect to have to spam heals, but then my DDs and tank don't need it. Their health isn't falling. They have so much sustain/shields/situational awareness, that I catch myself standing there with ... my staff in my hands ... and figure, OK! Mad-healer-deeps-time it is, boys and girls!

I never liked healing in other MMOs. ESO healing is weird. I see now that it really is more 'support-y' than 'heal-y' in other MMOs. I guess I won't be shocked to learn that my soon-to-be-DK DPS-turned-tank is more support too.

max_only · September 2017

I agreed with your first post

As a healer you are NOT the only one responsible for everyone staying alive.

You cast your HoTs (Heal over Time): Ritual (if you're Templar), Mutagen, maybe a bit of Springs. That's it. That's enough for dungeon. In "oh s**t" case - BoL.

People dying under your HoTs have noone to blame but themselves. They run out of your HoTs begind your back? They die and it's their problem. They stupidly stand in red? They die and it's their problem.

But disagree with your second post.

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person.

For healing imperfect you have BoL and that's more then enough If you're templar, of course. You're templar or warden?

I myself also run Templar healer. I pugged with it, healed trials and all that jazz. And honestly - combo Mutagen + Ritual (personally I prefer Extended, btw) is extremely powerful. Extremely.

Like, seriously. Next time you go to dungeon, type in chat "Guys, please try to stick together so I could heal you better", keep your Mutagen + Ritual up and just step aside and observe how much that combo does on its own. Throw occasional BoL if things go south, but the truth is - in most cases Mutagen + Ritual will heal them alright and they won't die even if you don't react in time.

Noone needs to be perfect. Mutagen + Ritual + BoL is enough to cover healing even in bad group unless they scatter around like flies but if they do - pretty much nothing can save them.

You honestly worry too much, imo. Only singular cases - like poison phase on vDCII last boss, execute phase of last boss in vRoM, etc - require extreme healing. In dungeons incoming damage really isn't that high. In vast majority of cases Mutagen + Ritual + BoL (+ some Springs, though personally I don't even use them in dungeons, I have Combat Prayer instead for "Oh, need a mass heal!") pretty much covers it.

Incoming damage is actually very high in regular and vet dungeons when pugging. I had a "tank" that every hit took him to 25% health. Dps that doesn't block or have any shields/defense/damage mitigation. Dps that gets tunnel vision and tries to throw all they have at a boss because it "so close" to dying -- doesn't matter how close it is you still have roll dodge out of the mechanic. Incoming damage is very high when pugging because very few casuals build for taking damage. They are used to "kiting"in the open world, letting distance be their defense. They also take long downtimes between fights, either rummaging through their inventory or regenerating their pools.

I use ele drain because it helps with everyone's magic sustain. I don't see any reason not to use it. What other skill gives comparable utility?

when it comes to pugs, I'm ready for either playing the cookie cutter armor and skill set, or playing the "geezus im glad I have over 200 soul gems" armor and skill set lol. Some people can't make use of SPC and would greatly benefit from faster rez times, those groups usually need me to dps and take a few hits as well or we'd be there forever. Slot the skills and wear the armor for the group at hand.

As for op, next time try clearing at least the first boss before you pipe up with your "polite requests". If someone zoned in and immediately asked for a skill, I have to assume that their build is so deficient they can't play without it -- which equals a carry in my book.

Linaleah · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

contrary to your seemingly unshakable belief, I do NOT have the reflexes for couple of hots to be enough and i do NOT run with people who have those reflexes either.

What the hell? Okay, you heal on sorc, I got it, nothing wrong with that. But what the hell?

You. Do. Not. Have. Enough. Reflexes. For. Two. HoTs? o_O Two HoTs, which need to be recasted once in ~20 secs? o_O

You don't need reflexes. People, if you were a Templar, would heal on 2k+ every second without you doing anything and Mutagen is burst heal for when they fall beyond 20%. They fall beyond 20% - bam, they are at full health again.

Noone needs to be perfect in such setup. You all have everything and heal crazily.

Which reflexes are you talking about? o_O Skills heal for you. That was my point all along. Not "people should be perfect", not "run meta" - my point is that only healing in ESO is easy, because HoTs are so powerful, they save even bad players unless they go full stupid and stand in red forever.

Okay, you're a sorc. You don't have Ritual. Well, use Quick Siphon then. Quick Siphon + Mutagen = same ~2k heals per secons, Twilight Matriarch for "Oh s**t" instead of BoL, it's the same.

You're a sorc - nothing changes. Your teammates still have ~2k incoming HPS, burst heal if they fall under 20% and you have "Oh s**t" option.

This heals them alright and you don't need to do much. You have all the time in the world for Ele Drain, Combat Prayer and all that jazz.

Which elitism? Under 2k HoTs with Muragen burst people can even stay in red, just not for long - but the room for mistake is enormous. And this is achievable on every class.

If you constantly wipe under 2k HoTs, Mutagen and you casting Matriarch... Well, sorry, it's not even "we don't have good reflexes" - you're playing with your eyes closed.

on boss fights, i have no time for anything but making sure hots are going and topping off with matriarch heal and making sure I have some magika left in between. i use combat prayer. but i do not have a power of mind control to make sure that everyone is stacked up enough to always be hit by my combat prayer. I can only use one skill at a time and since they are not all bound to the same button, there is a minor delay between me deciding which keybind to hit and then hitting that keybind. and we don not constantly wipe, in part becasue I at least try to make healing my primary priority

on trash - depends on a trash and the dungeon. i do not use quick siphon for literally the same reason i do not use ele drain. its not even remotely comparable to Ritual, they are completely different skills used in a different way, ritual is more comparable to combat prayer then siphon and I'm honestly baffled as to why you decided that they were interchangeable.

whatever people YOU are running with? maybe for them hots are enough. good for you. whatever gear you are running with that makes your hots so powerful? good for you. I'm running crafted purples. I do NOT have monster head OR monster shoulders, let alone combo of the 2. rng kept giving me stuff useful on every other alt i have, BUT my sorc and i do not farm pledges religiously becasue I. do NOT. RANDOM. PUG.

grannas211 wrote: »

No sense arguing. The "anti meta" crowd are ironically very elitism in their own right.

oh come off it. we are not telling you not to run meta. run whatever you bloody want. we are telling you to please stop expecting and demanding that EVERYONE ELSE ALSO RUN META AND ONLY META. in a random. dungeon. up to and including switching up their bars at YOUR convenience.

Dantaria · September 2017

max_only wrote: »

Dps that gets tunnel vision and tries to throw all they have at a boss because it "so close" to dying -- doesn't matter how close it is you still have roll dodge out of the mechanic. Incoming damage is very high when pugging because very few casuals build for taking damage. They are used to "kiting"in the open world, letting distance be their defense. They also take long downtimes between fights, either rummaging through their inventory or regenerating their pools.

Yeah, I saw pug groups in their full glory while leveling Undaunted on my healer. And the truth is... well. Sometimes you just see that they won't make it. And it's honestly better leave. If they scatter, kite and take all damage there is - well, you are a healer, not a god. I always did - and still do - try to communicate first: to ask to keep together, to avoid red, etc. But if it's failPUG - it's failPUG. And HoTs are not at fault, they truly are powerful

Linaleah wrote: »

i do not use quick siphon for literally the same reason i do not use ele drain. its not even remotely comparable to Ritual, they are completely different skills used in a different way, ritual is more comparable to combat prayer then siphon and I'm honestly baffled as to why you decided that they were interchangeable

Erm... Combat Prayer is a burst heal. Quick Siphon is HoT.

Combat Prayer:

Slam your staff down to activate its blessings, healing you and your allies in front of you for [x] Health.
Also grants Minor Berserk, Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing you and your allies' damage done by 8% and Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by [y] for 8 seconds.

See? You heal once - for me it's ~6k. You heal on 6k once.

Quick Siphon:

Focus your staff's power to apply Minor Lifesteal to an enemy for 20 seconds, healing you and your allies for [x] Health every 1 seconds when damaging them.

All the time your DDs damage the enemy, they heal. So... Your DD throw DoT - and boom and done. He heals every second for 20 secs.

Ritual is a HoT. It heals every 2 secs. If you're not a templar, you need another HoT (templars do not use Siphon because for them there is no need). Of course, Siphon is worse than Ritual - Ritual has burst heal synergy, it cleanses and heals stronger. But if you're not Templar - Siphon is very nice. Cast it once - your DDs heals for ~1k every second for 20 secs.

Combat Prayer, on the other hand, is kinda comparable to BoL - heals strong but instantly. No Healing over Time.

Linaleah wrote: »

whatever gear you are running with that makes your hots so powerful? good for you. I'm running crafted purples.

5 SPC + 5 Worm. All epic, only staffs are golden. No monster set, just one monster piece - healers do not run full monster sets.

SPC also bursts my Spell Power so yeah - it helps. But what also helps a lot are golden staffs. Golding your staffs will make a world of a difference, if you can afford it. Heals scale from magicka pool and Spell Damage and golding staffs = +200 to Spell Damage. Golden rule of ESO: cloths and jewellry may be purple, but weapon - always golden.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Obligatory:

This made me laugh pretty good haha.

Last night after I closed this thread I did Falkreath Hold Vet and HM first try with three friends. We only died 2 times on last boss and for half of us it was first time in. Funny enough someone had ele drain, people asked each other to do certain things, slot certain things and not a single person got scared or felt like someone was being mean to them. Sure we are friends but come on people... if you are that scared of being asked something.. well maybe.. maybe online games are not for you..

To those who are saying I cant be telling the truth, I MUST of been rude and not just said "Can healer slot ele drain pls on boss fights" you can think how you want.. Thats all I did, nothing was killed, no one had said anything before or after. If it helps you sleep at night sure.

In the time that the "healers" (and I use that word lightly) have been sitting at this post complaining about how they should only heal and that they actually dont know how to do their role I have bought 4M worth of mats and resold them for 5.5M, done one of the new vet dungeons on HM first try with only 2 wipes at end boss and through two friends made another friend with a healer who came with us and didn't mind using ele drain *gasp*. Amazingly when I died for not standing behind a pillar because it was my first time and didnt know the mechanics I didnt get angry at anyone for TELLING me how I can do it better next time either *gasp*.

Sometimes in dungeons my friends ask "How can people find this stuff hard" and the answer is really simple.. Its this thread.

I only have two things to say now..

1) I see these special snow flake sunflower builds often complain that the better players dont tech them and instead just expect them to know, HOWEVER they also complain when someone says ANYTHING that they dont know about... That is dumb.

2) "If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." - David Dunning

Banana · September 2017

Im guessing someones a high elf sorcerer

Linaleah · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dps that gets tunnel vision and tries to throw all they have at a boss because it "so close" to dying -- doesn't matter how close it is you still have roll dodge out of the mechanic. Incoming damage is very high when pugging because very few casuals build for taking damage. They are used to "kiting"in the open world, letting distance be their defense. They also take long downtimes between fights, either rummaging through their inventory or regenerating their pools.

Yeah, I saw pug groups in their full glory while leveling Undaunted on my healer. And the truth is... well. Sometimes you just see that they won't make it. And it's honestly better leave. If they scatter, kite and take all damage there is - well, you are a healer, not a god. I always did - and still do - try to communicate first: to ask to keep together, to avoid red, etc. But if it's failPUG - it's failPUG. And HoTs are not at fault, they truly are powerful

Linaleah wrote: »

i do not use quick siphon for literally the same reason i do not use ele drain. its not even remotely comparable to Ritual, they are completely different skills used in a different way, ritual is more comparable to combat prayer then siphon and I'm honestly baffled as to why you decided that they were interchangeable

Erm... Combat Prayer is a burst heal. Quick Siphon is HoT.

Combat Prayer:

Slam your staff down to activate its blessings, healing you and your allies in front of you for [x] Health.
Also grants Minor Berserk, Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing you and your allies' damage done by 8% and Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by [y] for 8 seconds.

See? You heal once - for me it's ~6k. You heal on 6k once.

Quick Siphon:

Focus your staff's power to apply Minor Lifesteal to an enemy for 20 seconds, healing you and your allies for [x] Health every 1 seconds when damaging them.

All the time your DDs damage the enemy, they heal. So... Your DD throw DoT - and boom and done. He heals every second for 20 secs.

Ritual is a HoT. It heals every 2 secs. If you're not a templar, you need another HoT (templars do not use Siphon because for them there is no need). Of course, Siphon is worse than Ritual - Ritual has burst heal synergy, it cleanses and heals stronger. But if you're not Templar - Siphon is very nice. Cast it once - your DDs heals for ~1k every second for 20 secs.

Combat Prayer, on the other hand, is kinda comparable to BoL - heals strong but instantly. No Healing over Time.

Linaleah wrote: »

whatever gear you are running with that makes your hots so powerful? good for you. I'm running crafted purples.

5 SPC + 5 Worm. All epic, only staffs are golden. No monster set, just one monster piece - healers do not run full monster sets.

SPC also bursts my Spell Power so yeah - it helps. But what also helps a lot are golden staffs. Golding your staffs will make a world of a difference, if you can afford it. Heals scale from magicka pool and Spell Damage and golding staffs = +200 to Spell Damage. Golden rule of ESO: cloths and jewellry may be purple, but weapon - always golden.

combat prayer is directed at players. Ritual is directed at players. Siphon is aimed at enemy. which makes it much MUCH more fiddly for me. especially on trash. same reason i don't use ele drain. i find it far too fiddly and distracting for me to manage.

I'm currently running seducer, health willpower jewelry (becasue even with food, yes I need that extra bit, becasue i do NOT have reflexes to move out of the bad or hit my cooldowns quickly enough not to need it. I love how you are not even thinking that reflexes are not just used for casting abilities, they are used for you know, everything else too, like not staying in red, dodging, blocking, interrupting, breaking free, using barriers - its so innate to you apparently that you don't even think about it, but me and I would wager quite a few others? we still have to think about those.

I keep waffling between julianos and necropotence, but honestly, I'm not sure there IS a difference when set is not full. I wanted that seducer 5 piece bonus because yes, I have sustain issues and every bit helps. I couldn't afford necropotence jewelry, so i got what I could afford. I have actualy done white gold tower couple of times. even when I do get spc to drop? its with traits like.. sturdy. my undaunted is not maxed because without dedicated group farming achievements/pledges? it takes bloody forever to level. so I don't have that boost from mettle either. my heals? don't hit nowhere NEAR where yours are hitting. hots are NOT enough. especially fiddly hots. part of the reason i enjoy my sorc is because of how much I appreciate matriarch's heal. if anything compensates for errors, whether they are mine or something else's - its THAT. but.. that also means, that this is my focus.

not everyone plays the way you do. not everyone can. we do what WE can, and if that means NOT being a dedicated buff bot in order to keep people alive? so be it. my description STILL says healer. not buff bot. healer.

and that's the thing, the way dungeons are designed? they ARE doable by people like me. not as quickly. not as smoothly. but they are doable. which is the point. you want quick and smooth? run with people you know are at your skill level. when you are pugging? you take what you get and you work with what you have instead of expecting or demanding people to play at your level regardless what they are ACTUALLY capable of at any given time.

and yes. there IS a difference between explaining and doing your best to follow mechanics and expecting players to play whatever META is needed to clear harder achievements etc. understanding mechanics is reasonable. expecting an average player to have acess to all the things you want them to have acess to at any given moment and get mad when they do not comply? is just... its like going to a park for a pickup game of football and expecting them to play at a competitive team level.

when I first tried dungeons, I didn't yet have orbs, or horn. people I ran with asked if I had it and could slot it. I couldn't. so we worked with what we DID have. the problem is not with asking. the problem is with getting pissy when the answer is no.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.

I don't agree with this. Perhaps I'm being idealistic but I don't think this is how it is or how it should be at least. Everyone is different and free to enjoy different things, but the real split here isn't casual vs elitist, it's just...let's call it sensible people and non sensible. Sensible people undertstand that [.../...]...Non sensible people are those that [.../...]

Yes, you are being idealistic... Just look at this thread ! And all the hate, despise and judgemental attitudes it contains. Including your conclusion to classify people who share your point of view as "sensible" and the rest of them as "non-sensible". And ultimately blame it on ZOS.

At this point, all I can do is emphasize that the reality of pugging ingame is nowhere near the image that's reflected on these forums, let alone in this thread. Most PUGs are just fine and nice, of course things may take a little bit longer but all in all they get done, all in good fun. Because most people in PUGs have a BOTH SENSIBLE AND SENSITIVE attitude : they take things and people as they are, deal with it, don't judge / expect / demand.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.

I don't agree with this. Perhaps I'm being idealistic but I don't think this is how it is or how it should be at least. Everyone is different and free to enjoy different things, but the real split here isn't casual vs elitist, it's just...let's call it sensible people and non sensible. Sensible people undertstand that [.../...]...Non sensible people are those that [.../...]

Yes, you are being idealistic... Just look at this thread ! And all the hate, despise and judgemental attitudes it contains. Including your conclusion to classify people who share your point of view as "sensible" and the rest of them as "non-sensible". And ultimately blame it on ZOS.

At this point, all I can do is emphasize that the reality of pugging ingame is nowhere near the image that's reflected on these forums, let alone in this thread. Most PUGs are just fine and nice, of course things may take a little bit longer but all in all they get done, all in good fun. Because most people in PUGs have a BOTH SENSIBLE AND SENSITIVE attitude : they take things and people as they are, deal with it, don't judge / expect / demand.

Sensitive attitude lol.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

In the time that the "healers" (and I use that word lightly) have been sitting at this post complaining about how ....

Last time I checked, the person who started this thread COMPLAINING about being kicked... is YOU.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Sensitive attitude lol.

Yes. Sensitivity is a quality.
You just happen to not be sensitive enough to realize that your asking for a specific playstyle from the healer before saying hello, before attempting to kill anything, is a pure lack of social skill. MMOs are social games in which social skills matter.
You don't seem to realize either that 90% of your posts in this thread reek elitism, all while you claim to not be one. That's another symptom of lack of sensitivity and social skills.
Stick to your friends instead of suggesting that anyone that doesn't think, play and act like you should leave the game.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

In the time that the "healers" (and I use that word lightly) have been sitting at this post complaining about how ....

Last time I checked, the person who started this thread COMPLAINING about being kicked... is YOU.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Sensitive attitude lol.

Yes. Sensitivity is a quality.
You just happen to not be sensitive enough to realize that your asking for a specific playstyle from the healer before saying hello, before attempting to kill anything, is a pure lack of social skill. MMOs are social games in which social skills matter.
You don't seem to realize either that 90% of your posts in this thread reek elitism, all while you claim to not be one. That's another symptom of lack of sensitivity and social skills.
Stick to your friends instead of suggesting that anyone that doesn't think, play and act like you should leave the game.

Sensitivity is a good quality. Correct.

However you are getting sensitivity confused with insecurity. If someone asks you something like "Can you use ele drain on boss fights" and you feel scared enough to kick them without talking... well mate.. that's not sensitivity.

IF you are scared of things like that I would suggest you dont go on the internet because it will rip you apart lol..

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

IF you are scared of things like that I would suggest you dont go on the internet because it will rip you apart lol..

Again giving condescending "advice"... and suggesting people who don't think like you just go away.
You're not making any progress on social skills

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

IF you are scared of things like that I would suggest you dont go on the internet because it will rip you apart lol..

Again giving condescending "advice"... and suggesting people who don't think like you just go away.
You're not making any progress on social skills

Here I am actually caring you are too sensitive for the net and no doubt on your end you are typing dumb *** like "Er he he you have badz social skills" and sitting back irl like..

and before you get all offended for one of the three millions things you are sensitive about in relation to this picture you can google "meme" and answer your own knee trebling fears.

DPShiro · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

When I come across a healer, a tank for that matter, who acts like you I just do the same. Equip random pieces of armor, proceed to slot random skills, like WoE of a stamina DD etc and we can all have "fun" chugging along in a single dungeon for hours, like the snowflakes we are~

If they comment I just quote their own words about playing how you want etc.

In a team activity you should support each other to get good results, or solo and story mode is better suited for you.

CyborgPlatypus · September 2017

They probably thought you were gonna be a hassle because you asked straight away.

Hell you were lucky to get a healer.

Lexynide · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again giving condescending "advice"... and suggesting people who don't think like you just go away.
You're not making any progress on social skills

Last time I checked the game doesn't award people with medals for bailing a dungeon, which means that competition is a thing. Which, in turn, means that "superiority" is part of the game. And that means that if you are going to neglect advices because they're "condescending" then you better off playing some Facebook games where competition isn't a thing.
I hope that now you've made some progress on "common sense" skill

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Lexynide wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again giving condescending "advice"... and suggesting people who don't think like you just go away.
You're not making any progress on social skills

Last time I checked the game doesn't award people with medals for bailing a dungeon, which means that competition is a thing. Which, in turn, means that "superiority" is part of the game. And that means that if you are going to neglect advices because they're "condescending" then you better off playing some Facebook games where competition isn't a thing.
I hope that now you've made some progress on "common sense" skill

Last time I checked, the game doesn't award people with anything else but useless achievements and leaderboard glory for being on top, which means that competition in ESO isn't a thing. People are free to play competitively according to whatever criteria they set to themselves (like world-1st-whatever), but the PvE in this game isn't designed with competition in mind.

And the vast majority of players don't play it competitively at all.