Shadowrend is too lol

Lord_Hev · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

It will be powerful, but at the same time, all the sorcs carried by amberplasm and shacklebreaker will be in for a rude awakening when they realize they have to learn actual resource management.

But yea, people better start fearing those sorcs. Especially ones that already have extensive experience in the art of Max magic.

Lord_Hev · August 2017

casparian wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Good. I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the NB tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their cloak to carry them just as their procs did.

Consider how weird this would sound when applied to other classes.

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the DK tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their defensive buffs to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Templar tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their heals to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Sorc tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their shields to carry them

Classes are meant to have effective defenses. Using those defenses to survive is smart play.

It's not weird at all. Cloak is the only defensive ability in the game that provides invulnerability to single target attacks even when exposed by a detect pot which is "supposed" to counter that. The only single target exception to that rule is the sorcs overload ultimate.

Assuming you don't mindlessly jump into a crowd of players or keep yourself in distance of spammable aoes, the defense provided by cloak is phenomenal.

RinaldoGandolphi · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

That's fine my numbers will be around 55k too I'll guess we will end up having a draw lol

Sandman929 · August 2017

I worry less about Sorcs using it, I've seen PetSorcs, a 55k magicka DK or Templar will be something different.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

Well you can't cleanse anything with betty when you have more than one debuff, so curse and minor maim from shadowrend and you got no counter anymore.

That will be a pretty strong setup and the set might end up being problematic.Tho I'm not convinced since I don't quite understand why it isn't more popular on live when it's not that changed on pts.

Lord_Hev · August 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

Well you can't cleanse anything with betty when you have more than one debuff, so curse and minor maim from shadowrend and you got no counter anymore.

That will be a pretty strong setup and the set might end up being problematic.Tho I'm not convinced since I don't quite understand why it isn't more popular on live since it's not that changed on pts.

Because it procs more consistently defensively then offensively.

Skander · August 2017

Make Shadowrend killable, like every other pet monster set in the game. Or give me an unkillable Engine Guardian

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

Well you can't cleanse anything with betty when you have more than one debuff, so curse and minor maim from shadowrend and you got no counter anymore.

That will be a pretty strong setup and the set might end up being problematic.Tho I'm not convinced since I don't quite understand why it isn't more popular on live since it's not that changed on pts.

Because it procs more consistently defensively then offensively.

Maybe, but it's that difference all that relevant? I don't feel like it. We'll see. I don't think it needs any adjustment without proper test tho.

revonine · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Good. I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the NB tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their cloak to carry them just as their procs did.

Bad nightblades yes. As a NB main I'm actually looking forward to procs getting the boot for the same reasons also lol.

And yes it's hilariously bad at times. Nearly every other light attack from an image will pull you out of cloak. Seems to be a issue with pets that are "not pets" but somehow are.

DDuke · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Good. I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the NB tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their cloak to carry them just as their procs did.

Consider how weird this would sound when applied to other classes.

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the DK tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their defensive buffs to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Templar tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their heals to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Sorc tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their shields to carry them

Classes are meant to have effective defenses. Using those defenses to survive is smart play.

It's not weird at all. Cloak is the only defensive ability in the game that provides invulnerability to single target attacks even when exposed by a detect pot which is "supposed" to counter that. The only single target exception to that rule is the sorcs overload ultimate.

Assuming you don't mindlessly jump into a crowd of players or keep yourself in distance of spammable aoes, the defense provided by cloak is phenomenal.

Care to elaborate? I always deal damage to people I've revealed with det pots (Detection+Major Vitality). Which skill are you using?

Derra · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

How do you think you can play around a 15% procc on any incoming dmg - honestly?
It was already hardly possible to bypass pirate skeleton with a 6% incoming dmg procchance.

Have you tested the set on pts? With just one person attacking me it takes about ~2s for the procc to happen after it despawned.
Also the build still has 49k magica without the procc being active (not that you can realisticly avoid the procc being active - i know bc i´ve tested it).

I mean ofc a magwarden can not die to a sorc under any circumstance (hello absorb). But they´re not going to kill them either. I just troll them with encase.

Ragnaroek93 · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

It will be powerful, but at the same time, all the sorcs carried by amberplasm and shacklebreaker will be in for a rude awakening when they realize they have to learn actual resource management.

But yea, people better start fearing those sorcs. Especially ones that already have extensive experience in the art of Max magic.

^
Tells people that they are getting carried by builds. Plays a 50k+ magicka dumb build with three active skills slotted

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing. EDIT: Shadowrend is apparently UNkillable!

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Didn't know that Skoria (and Nerienth after the patch) are stamina based. But maybe stamina can get a set which summons a Dota hero as well

actosh wrote: »

The Sword from the morjuldin set as well pulls nb s out of cloak.

Can you please take a look at this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ? Is this intended or not?

ManDraKE · August 2017

The bug breaking cloak needs to get fixes ASAP. And about necropotence, at this point if they didn't realize it needs to get nerfed, is pointless to keep talking.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

I mean ofc a magwarden can not die to a sorc under any circumstance (hello absorb). But they´re not going to kill them either. I just troll them with encase.

Dude stop, i hate you. Roots suck so much *-*

paulsimonps · August 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around

I mean ofc a magwarden can not die to a sorc under any circumstance (hello absorb). But they´re not going to kill them either. I just troll them with encase.

Dude stop, i hate you. Roots suck so much *-*

Well Torug's Pact+Infused Oblivion weapon+Shield breaker/Knight Slayer can kill a sorc no matter what class you are on

s7732425ub17_ESO · August 2017

Oh hey, let's go ahead and nerf a set that absolutely no one uses. This is a great use of ZOS's time.

Subversus · August 2017

I have actually been itching to roll a magdk for some time now, this thread kinda makes me want one even more...

Double s/b heavy with shadowrend, necro and another 5 piece comes to mind, doubt how good that thing actually is though. We shall see, I don't play stamdk anymore anyway...

Alpheu5 · August 2017

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top. The only real reason to use this set outside of proccing necro is the regen boost and/or Minor Maim. At least, that's why I use it, on top of loving Clannfears.

This seems to be another case of "something that was kind of used all this time was marginally improved/nerfed, so now it's going to overperform/become useless." See: Velocious Curse rework, Crystal Frags 10% bonus reduction, Incap cost increase, unreflectable Meteor, unbashable Soul Assault, every Minor Mending change with Morrowind, 6 second shields, stacking cost to roll dodging (and streak :'( ), etc. Not trying to discredit anything that's being said here, but in the past there's been instances of large hooplas over what turns out to be not that big a deal or even better for balance, and since this is a set that I've always thoroughly enjoyed I'd hate to see it unnecessarily nerfed because of poor speculation.

SirMewser · August 2017

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top. The only real reason to use this set outside of proccing necro is the regen boost and/or Minor Maim. At least, that's why I use it, on top of loving Clannfears.

This seems to be another case of "something that was kind of used all this time was marginally improved/nerfed, so now it's going to overperform/become useless." See: Velocious Curse rework, Crystal Frags 10% bonus reduction, Incap cost increase, unreflectable Meteor, unbashable Soul Assault, every Minor Mending change with Morrowind, 6 second shields, stacking cost to roll dodging (and streak :'( ), etc. Not trying to discredit anything that's being said here, but in the past there's been instances of large hooplas over what turns out to be not that big a deal or even better for balance, and since this is a set that I've always thoroughly enjoyed I'd hate to see it unnecessarily nerfed because of poor speculation.

Exactly, does anyone actually remember what happened to Defiler/Infector from past PTS?
The embarrassing thing is that these are people who don't even test the sets... Then complain that ZoS doesn't listen to them while, honestly, I don't blame ZoS at this point anymore.

Anne_Firehawk · August 2017

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Grumble_and_Grunt · August 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

Derra · August 2017

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

Anne_Firehawk · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

That's actually a good point lol. Either shouldn't proc Necro or increase Cooldown.

Cinbri · August 2017

Asking about nerf set and dont even know how it works because 90% players didnt ever thought about use. Guess why?
1. It already have 90% uptime in fight (unless you healbot that only spam healing), so proc change won't change anything beside making it only worse vs tanks/healers who dont attack you and for that reason wont even proc it. It reducing its offensive capability.
2. Change to damage source wont make damage stronger in non-cp coz spell resistance is higher than physical and now shadowrend attacks will have to checks against higher armor modifier.
3. Spot invisible enemies - every set that spawns adds tracking invisible enemies. How long do we have morkuldin and daedroth set and it still a mess?
∆∆ those changez wont make it stronger, on other hand they might make it weaker. Only real changes are debuff duration and speed of add coz previously it had hard time of chazing enemies.
But if set so strong why is it only 3 people beside me wearing it in pvp on eu? Guess coz streamers don't advertise it

P.S.: And, Templars, embrace - because noone used this set zos forgot to change it, so it still repentable. But shhh, dont tell anyone.

Only thing I would suggest is to change proc back to damage dealt instead of damage received. So people who don't deal damage won't proc it, while set will proc vs people who don't deal damage same often as vs those who does it.

Anne_Firehawk · August 2017

Cinbri wrote: »

3. Spot invisible enemies - every set that spawns adds tracking invisible enemies. How long do we have morkuldin and daedroth set and it still a mess?

That's not really an issue tho

Cinbri · August 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

3. Spot invisible enemies - every set that spawns adds tracking invisible enemies. How long do we have morkuldin and daedroth set and it still a mess?

That's not really an issue tho

Natural counter I would say.

Also: being unkillable is nice, but it would be nicer if it would be killable, but had same amount hp as daedroth, so it it would serve as shield and you could hide behind it or forcing people to waste ult by mistargeting on it.

Lord_Hev · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.

Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.

Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Alpheu5 · August 2017

Cinbri wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

3. Spot invisible enemies - every set that spawns adds tracking invisible enemies. How long do we have morkuldin and daedroth set and it still a mess?

That's not really an issue tho

Natural counter I would say.
Also: being unkillable is nice, but it would be nicer if it would be killable, but had same amount hp as daedroth, so it it would serve as shield and you could hide behind it or forcing people to waste ult by mistargeting on it.

I'm calling PETA to report your admitted intention to use summoned pets as violence buffers.

Ragnaroek93 · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.

Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.

Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Running magbuilds out of stamina in 2017... are you serious? Don't tell me that you need to block or roll with that max magicka nonsense + three shields.
I prefer fighting an Amberplasm sorc over a dumb 50k+ magicka idiot build all day, because the first one can actually die and get punished for mistakes while the max magicka dude just laughs with shields (just stop comparing this lol, Amberplasm even gets nerfed). Max magicka stacking (especially on sorc) isn't less cheesy than Troll King or Pirate Skelly ever was and also one of the easiest builds to play out there while still being super strong on a good player.

Feanor · August 2017

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.

Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.

Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Don't do this. You disturb the narrative of "Sorc OP nerf plz". It's almost like other classes didn't have distinctive class abilities and strengths as well. But I get that these days everything needs a nerf that you can't one shot.