Shadowrend is too lol

Derra

Feanor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.


Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.


Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Don't do this. You disturb the narrative of "Sorc OP nerf plz". It's almost like other classes didn't have distinctive class abilities and strengths as well. But I get that these days everything needs a nerf that you can't one shot.

I´m a sorc myself.

I just hate fighting unbalanced builds that solely survive because of a beginner friendly mechanic that i can´t bypass or run them out of resources ever because all my attacks feed them magica.

I can play my a game and i won´t be able to kill someone pressing 2 buttons.

Also @Lord_Hev magblades and wardens get that shields numbers - but you´re comfortably ignoring that sorcs hardened ward gets about the same shieldsize while costing 40% less.
Also sorcs with this setup will finally be able to fully utilize harness if they choose so making them completely independant from any magica regeneration against magica builds.

I´m just going to ignore the run someone out of stam comment. I´ve not run out of stamina against a single opponent since 2014.

Biro123

I kind of think this is one of those 'pretend gifts'.

I mean I've played petsorc for a while now - not because I want to use pets, but purely for the 5-piece from necro. Pet stays on passive and is only used for my one heal.

Shadowrend and Necro just sounds like everything I ever wanted.. easy access to max mag while having space for actual skills on my bar!! Yay!

But then there's oblivion/infused/torugs - and every time I think about builds with Shadowrend, I think.. those freed-up slots are gonna need to be taken up with heals. Then I think.. What is best.. healing ward + mutagen or twilight matriarch heal and the ability to use different monster sets or mix-match sets more freely..? Kind of still leaning towards the matriarch, I think.

Unless of course you have a healer friend to carry you...

Lord_Hev

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.


Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.


Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Running magbuilds out of stamina in 2017... are you serious? Don't tell me that you need to block or roll with that max magicka nonsense + three shields.
I prefer fighting an Amberplasm sorc over a dumb 50k+ magicka idiot build all day, because the first one can actually die and get punished for mistakes while the max magicka dude just laughs with shields (just stop comparing this lol, Amberplasm even gets nerfed). Max magicka stacking (especially on sorc) isn't less cheesy than Troll King or Pirate Skelly ever was and also one of the easiest builds to play out there while still being super strong on a good player.

Easy to play? I know of only a handful of other sorcs on NA that use to play this kind of build... all of them DW. Why DW? Because even with 2k regen, destro staff sorc will have sustain issues. That is why you see even lich builds running dark conversion, lol. All the sorcs I see, their hardened ward barely even covers half their health pool, it actually makes me cringe. My hardened ward and full health heal ward is stronger then like 95% shield stacked sorcs I run into. Why do I only run into sorcs with a 18k combined shield stack that happen to roll dodge alot... if max magic is so OP and easy to play? I mean yea, it is OP, but good luck having the same kind of success I have with it lol. The only sorcs I run into that have a shield stack comparable to me are pet builds, or the occasional quasi pet build that only uses Twilight Matriarch for the 5pc necro proc... my elegant/spinner overload build has a bigger shield stack then their 5pc necro setup.... lol. But yea, just throwing on max magic is easy peasy. mmmkay


But I do look forward to fighting all the band-wagoners that listen to the parroting that goes on here and try out this kinda of build.


You're EU tho, so maybe things are different there. I mean all I hear about is how elite the potatoes are there and 1vX is impossible and only Godlike players can play there and only in groups at that. Must suck if all you run into is 55k magic sorcs lol. Pressure their 600 stam regen. Use cost increase poisons. If all of that is too difficult, then throw on shieldbreaker and be done with it.

Skander

Cinbri wrote: »

Asking about nerf set and dont even know how it works because 90% players didnt ever thought about use. Guess why?
1. It already have 90% uptime in fight (unless you healbot that only spam healing), so proc change won't change anything beside making it only worse vs tanks/healers who dont attack you and for that reason wont even proc it. It reducing its offensive capability.
2. Change to damage source wont make damage stronger in non-cp coz spell resistance is higher than physical and now shadowrend attacks will have to checks against higher armor modifier.
3. Spot invisible enemies - every set that spawns adds tracking invisible enemies. How long do we have morkuldin and daedroth set and it still a mess?
∆∆ those changez wont make it stronger, on other hand they might make it weaker. Only real changes are debuff duration and speed of add coz previously it had hard time of chazing enemies.
But if set so strong why is it only 3 people beside me wearing it in pvp on eu? Guess coz streamers don't advertise it
P.S.: And, Templars, embrace - because noone used this set zos forgot to change it, so it still repentable. But shhh, dont tell anyone.

Only thing I would suggest is to change proc back to damage dealt instead of damage received. So people who don't deal damage won't proc it, while set will proc vs people who don't deal damage same often as vs those who does it.

It's repentable just when it dies, 1 second and it's repentable no more. Then, anyway. Shadowrend +necro +sorcshields just will be the extream meta

Lord_Hev

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.


Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.


Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Don't do this. You disturb the narrative of "Sorc OP nerf plz". It's almost like other classes didn't have distinctive class abilities and strengths as well. But I get that these days everything needs a nerf that you can't one shot.

I´m a sorc myself.

I just hate fighting unbalanced builds that solely survive because of a beginner friendly mechanic that i can´t bypass or run them out of resources ever because all my attacks feed them magica.

I can play my a game and i won´t be able to kill someone pressing 2 buttons.

Also @Lord_Hev magblades and wardens get that shields numbers - but you´re comfortably ignoring that sorcs hardened ward gets about the same shieldsize while costing 40% less.
Also sorcs with this setup will finally be able to fully utilize harness if they choose so making them completely independant from any magica regeneration against magica builds.

I´m just going to ignore the run someone out of stam comment. I´ve not run out of stamina against a single opponent since 2014.

Sorc's ward cost 40% less. However a Warden gets survivabilty layering dampen/harness with the healing vines skill + sustain from the betty netch and other passives that further boost magic and stamina regen on activation.

Magblades have cloak to control their fights and an extremely cheap single target spammable.


All 3 require resource management. And all 3 can acquire infinite magic sustain if they opt for the weaker harness magic shield that only works against other magic builds.

Derra wrote: »

I´m just going to ignore the run someone out of stam comment. I´ve not run out of stamina against a single opponent since 2014.

Neither have I. But, we have been playing sorc since 2014.


Also, this isn't about 1v1, that whole ballpark is hopeless as far as im concerned. The game is in such a perpetual mess it is all about rock paper scissors. In a 1vX, you -will- run out of stam with only 600 stam regen. Even with powerful shield stacks, there are things you need to dodge and meteors to block.

Joy_Division

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

Biro123

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

I think the biggest change is with what procs it and the chance. I just tried it on live while experimenting for future builds - and the current uptime is very poor. Sounds like its a lot higher on PTS (not tried it yet though)

Dymence

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

No, because the proc chance is horrendous on live while it's not on PTS. It's going from what, 5% to 15%?

Derra

Biro123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

I think the biggest change is with what procs it and the chance. I just tried it on live while experimenting for future builds - and the current uptime is very poor. Sounds like its a lot higher on PTS (not tried it yet though)

The pet deals more dmg on pts (due to being changed to magic dmg entirely and summoned proccs getting bonuses from character).
The pet is faster on pts (meaning it actually hits moving targets now). It hits for 2700 light and 4900 heavyattack dmg with petcurse active on the target.
The uptime is not very good on sorc on live currently due to being almost entirely direct damage based. On pts it achieves 90%+ uptime in duels compared to ~50 to 60% on live.

The difference is enormous.

I get 55k magica with the procc active while having 2140 magica rec. Feels pretty solid.

Ragnaroek93

Feanor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.


Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.


Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Don't do this. You disturb the narrative of "Sorc OP nerf plz". It's almost like other classes didn't have distinctive class abilities and strengths as well. But I get that these days everything needs a nerf that you can't one shot.

Hello, but you can only oneshot a sorc to kill him. If you take him down to 10% it doesn't matter, the sorc (or other shields builds) just spam Healing Ward and Dampen/Hardened and you are so far away from killing them like they would be at full health. But you tend to agree on everything which I say and only disagree on the part that affects sorc (I don't even have anything against normal sorcs, just against the extreme builds you can build a sorc into but I guess in two patches ZOS will nerf them so badly that you are kinda forced to play an extreme build).

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Just dueled @Grumble_and_Grunt and it's fine, it's actually useable now lol.

Yeah on a non Necro Templar Anne xD. On Mageplar felt pretty underwhelming and did not do much to save me from the real issue next patch like when fighting a torugs pact oblivion dmg mageblade, weaving me for 2966 oblivion dmg every other weave lol.

Issue people see is easy uptimes for Necro and the issues with cloak which only happens with the aoe tail swipe from what I saw.

Just needs a longer CD, too many new sets/updated sets coming about where the effect duration almost overlays its cooldown giving incredibly high uptimes.

Increase the cooldown to have more downtime and in doing so will probs hinder its synergy with Necropotence.

Everything else is fine in my opinion and at least the set will see some use, just needs its potential synergy with Necro obliterated

That´s pretty much it. It´s only relevant for sorcs as it´ll allow 55k (easy) to 60k+ (harder) magica builds that are actually capable of having decent regeneration meaning 2k+ magrec and can stack shields because they have enough barslots not occupied by pets.

I don't see the issue. Wardens can effortlessly get the same magic pool with the netch and be unkillable with a 17k dampen magic shield layered with healing vines skill +2k regen^ + another 300 regen from said netch.


Magblades can hit 65k magic and layer an 18k dampen magic with cloak spam, shade teleport for unmatched mobility and run +2k^ regen.


Magblades, MagWardens, and MagSorcs running this kind of build are all going to suffer the same weaknessess.... Stamina. Pressure their stamina and watch for timed CCs between shield times. If they are packing max magic, then that means they do not have infinite stam sustain from lolamberplasm.

Don't do this. You disturb the narrative of "Sorc OP nerf plz". It's almost like other classes didn't have distinctive class abilities and strengths as well. But I get that these days everything needs a nerf that you can't one shot.

I´m a sorc myself.

I just hate fighting unbalanced builds that solely survive because of a beginner friendly mechanic that i can´t bypass or run them out of resources ever because all my attacks feed them magica.

I can play my a game and i won´t be able to kill someone pressing 2 buttons.

Also @Lord_Hev magblades and wardens get that shields numbers - but you´re comfortably ignoring that sorcs hardened ward gets about the same shieldsize while costing 40% less.
Also sorcs with this setup will finally be able to fully utilize harness if they choose so making them completely independant from any magica regeneration against magica builds.

I´m just going to ignore the run someone out of stam comment. I´ve not run out of stamina against a single opponent since 2014.

Also, this isn't about 1v1, that whole ballpark is hopeless as far as im concerned. The game is in such a perpetual mess it is all about rock paper scissors. In a 1vX, you -will- run out of stam with only 600 stam regen. Even with powerful shield stacks, there are **** you need to dodge and meteors to block.

It's not about 1v1 but about 1vX instead. So it's fine that a "normal" build (lets say a ~38k magicka toon or a medium armor build) will never ever kill you (as long as you can press two buttons) while you can instagib them because the game isn't about 1v1. Got it.

Too bad that I have a necro sorc by myself and killed every player I've met on PTS so far with it (mostly NA players tho ), I guess they are all just bad and don't know how to run me out of stamina

Biro123 wrote: »

I kind of think this is one of those 'pretend gifts'.

I mean I've played petsorc for a while now - not because I want to use pets, but purely for the 5-piece from necro. Pet stays on passive and is only used for my one heal.

Shadowrend and Necro just sounds like everything I ever wanted.. easy access to max mag while having space for actual skills on my bar!! Yay!

But then there's oblivion/infused/torugs - and every time I think about builds with Shadowrend, I think.. those freed-up slots are gonna need to be taken up with heals. Then I think.. What is best.. healing ward + mutagen or twilight matriarch heal and the ability to use different monster sets or mix-match sets more freely..? Kind of still leaning towards the matriarch, I think.

Unless of course you have a healer friend to carry you...

This is going on my nerves. An infused oblivion enchant won't kill you alone through shields, you need torugs as well for this and pretty much everything gets deleted by torugs + infused weapons, not only sorcs (almost 4k dps from a stupid glyph lol). You can't justify ridiculous strong burst builds with ridiculous high defense as well, just because there is (currently, it most likely gets fixed) a glyph in the game which goes through shields (it goes through everything btw, not only through shields). If you don't see why a 55-60k max magicka build is too strong then you are lost, sorry.


With petcurse Shadowrend hits for 2,7k light attack and 5k heavy attacks on a shielded opponent and it can crit on top of this (in comparism, Infernal Guardian hits for 2,5k and can easily be dodged and can't crit at all), chases opponents very well (far better than Morkuldin), pulls nightblades out of cloak, procs Necropotence, is perma up and applies Minor Maim. This is by far the strongest two piece set in the game in the current state of PTS, it's a freaking Dota hero and not a two piece set. Why even bother nerfing Selene and Viper if such an abomination is in the game @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ?

Biro123

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This is going on my nerves. An infused oblivion enchant won't kill you alone through shields, you need torugs as well for this and pretty much everything gets deleted by torugs + infused weapons, not only sorcs (almost 4k dps from a stupid glyph lol). .

Yes it will.
On its own it won't kill classes/builds that have a good and reliable hot and burst heal already (alongside other defences for 'standard' attacks) - but most current sorc builds don't have this so will have to adjust to fit it in - and that means sacrificing something else. If you read my post, you'd see that with the pet - those 2 slots are used up for my ONLY heal. Dropping the pet means needing a new heal to replace it otherwise its dead sorc in 10 seconds or so, shields or not.
Healing Ward on its won't be enough (a single burst heal every 6 seconds IF the shield is still up at the end) - so a hot will be needed too. That's the 2 slots that were freed up by the pet taken.
Current patch, I'd get away with healing ward only - but not the new one - and that's simply due to infused oblivion - which anybody can run while giving up next to nothing to do so.

Ragnaroek93

Biro123 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This is going on my nerves. An infused oblivion enchant won't kill you alone through shields, you need torugs as well for this and pretty much everything gets deleted by torugs + infused weapons, not only sorcs (almost 4k dps from a stupid glyph lol). .

Yes it will.
On its own it won't kill classes/builds that have a good and reliable hot and burst heal already (alongside other defences for 'standard' attacks) - but most current sorc builds don't have this so will have to adjust to fit it in - and that means sacrificing something else. If you read my post, you'd see that with the pet - those 2 slots are used up for my ONLY heal. Dropping the pet means needing a new heal to replace it otherwise its dead sorc in 10 seconds or so, shields or not.
Healing Ward on its won't be enough (a single burst heal every 6 seconds IF the shield is still up at the end) - so a hot will be needed too. That's the 2 slots that were freed up by the pet taken.
Current patch, I'd get away with healing ward only - but not the new one - and that's simply due to infused oblivion - which anybody can run while giving up next to nothing to do so.

So we can just nerf max magicka builds since you won't run one anyways.

Biro123

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This is going on my nerves. An infused oblivion enchant won't kill you alone through shields, you need torugs as well for this and pretty much everything gets deleted by torugs + infused weapons, not only sorcs (almost 4k dps from a stupid glyph lol). .

Yes it will.
On its own it won't kill classes/builds that have a good and reliable hot and burst heal already (alongside other defences for 'standard' attacks) - but most current sorc builds don't have this so will have to adjust to fit it in - and that means sacrificing something else. If you read my post, you'd see that with the pet - those 2 slots are used up for my ONLY heal. Dropping the pet means needing a new heal to replace it otherwise its dead sorc in 10 seconds or so, shields or not.
Healing Ward on its won't be enough (a single burst heal every 6 seconds IF the shield is still up at the end) - so a hot will be needed too. That's the 2 slots that were freed up by the pet taken.
Current patch, I'd get away with healing ward only - but not the new one - and that's simply due to infused oblivion - which anybody can run while giving up next to nothing to do so.

So we can just nerf max magicka builds since you won't run one anyways.

What?

I'm talking about whether its better to run ShadowRend + necropotence or a traditional pet + Necropotence and I'm not running a max mag build?

Malamar1229

Maybe this set will have some use?
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Hunt+Leader+Set

Subversus

@Ragnaroek93 I'll play cheese next patch, no reason to stress about this. It most likely will be a long while until this gets fixed, and with torugs coming the only way to not lose hair over this is to just roll meta... I'll go back to necro magblade and heavy armor stamblade...

QuebraRegra

actosh wrote: »

The Sword from the morjuldin set as well pulls nb s out of cloak.

Regarding Shadowrend, its strong. Wouldnt call it to strong.

no, no, I assure you, ZOS fixed cloak about 1000 times!!!!!!

this is starting to *** me off.

disappointed at this dumpster fire

Ishammael

Shadowrend isn't the issue.

Necropotence is outperforming all sets by a fair margin. That is the issue.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

I think the biggest change is with what procs it and the chance. I just tried it on live while experimenting for future builds - and the current uptime is very poor. Sounds like its a lot higher on PTS (not tried it yet though)

The pet deals more dmg on pts (due to being changed to magic dmg entirely and summoned proccs getting bonuses from character).
The pet is faster on pts (meaning it actually hits moving targets now). It hits for 2700 light and 4900 heavyattack dmg with petcurse active on the target.
The uptime is not very good on sorc on live currently due to being almost entirely direct damage based. On pts it achieves 90%+ uptime in duels compared to ~50 to 60% on live.

The difference is enormous.

I get 55k magica with the procc active while having 2140 magica rec. Feels pretty solid.

Hmm, I'll take your word for it, but usually "when you do [any] damage" conditions are very easy to maintain. Though I do guess since sorcs don't have a DoT and aren't spammers, you might be right about the uptime. A DK, on the other hand, who really wanted Necro could easy use this set on Live.

Subversus

@Ishammael watch out mate all the forum sorcs (and some templars - very weak class of course - here and there) might jump at your throat if you say something like that!!!!!!!

Ishammael

Subversus wrote: »

@Ishammael watch out mate all the forum sorcs (and some templars - very weak class of course - here and there) might jump at your throat if you say something like that!!!!!!!

The LORD ISHAMMAEL is truth, ye need not fear.

Lord_Hev

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

Alpheu5

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

It was just a few months ago that people were saying that Curse became overpowered because it exploded a second time after 8 seconds.

Some people suggest replacing the 4000 bonus magicka on Necropotence with the spell power equivalent, but this crops up a different kind of balancing problem. There are no buffs that boost your max magicka, only slotted skills. Major Sorcery would scale the 5 piece beyond what the "equivalent" would be. Throw a 2 piece Kena on to boost it further and you've got a sorc with almost 4k spell power and ~50k magicka.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the damage from 4k physical to 4k magical, and having it proc defensively instead of offensively, is worth nerfing. It's been nearly an entire year where sorcs have been able to use this set to proc necro without actual pets, it can no longer crit, and the damage output is mediocre at best against an enemy with no armor on, basically just a wrinkled cherry on top.

I'm not sure what the hype is either. If this setup is so good, a sorc can use it on Live right now.

I think the biggest change is with what procs it and the chance. I just tried it on live while experimenting for future builds - and the current uptime is very poor. Sounds like its a lot higher on PTS (not tried it yet though)

The pet deals more dmg on pts (due to being changed to magic dmg entirely and summoned proccs getting bonuses from character).
The pet is faster on pts (meaning it actually hits moving targets now). It hits for 2700 light and 4900 heavyattack dmg with petcurse active on the target.
The uptime is not very good on sorc on live currently due to being almost entirely direct damage based. On pts it achieves 90%+ uptime in duels compared to ~50 to 60% on live.

The difference is enormous.

I get 55k magica with the procc active while having 2140 magica rec. Feels pretty solid.

Hmm, I'll take your word for it, but usually "when you do [any] damage" conditions are very easy to maintain. Though I do guess since sorcs don't have a DoT and aren't spammers, you might be right about the uptime. A DK, on the other hand, who really wanted Necro could easy use this set on Live.

It´s great on DK and templar on live already that´s true.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

Its been pretty op on nb eversince.

Now sorc can play a normal build with it. In duels on pts it feels really good i´ll def give it a try.

Subversus

@Lord_Hev I actually don't believe it is op in open world. Sincerely, anything is allowed open world imo since you are already at a disadvantage by not playing in a Zerg and running solo.

1v1, however, is another story...

LegendaryMage

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

It was just a few months ago that people were saying that Curse became overpowered because it exploded a second time after 8 seconds.

Some people suggest replacing the 4000 bonus magicka on Necropotence with the spell power equivalent, but this crops up a different kind of balancing problem. There are no buffs that boost your max magicka, only slotted skills. Major Sorcery would scale the 5 piece beyond what the "equivalent" would be. Throw a 2 piece Kena on to boost it further and you've got a sorc with almost 4k spell power and ~50k magicka.

Necropotence is a set that's intended to empower summoning builds. The problem here is that in ESO a lot of things count as pets when they shouldn't, and also the fact that the set empowers the character rather than the summoning aspect of a build.

It's a niche set that's never been a niche set in the first place.

Alpheu5

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

It was just a few months ago that people were saying that Curse became overpowered because it exploded a second time after 8 seconds.

Some people suggest replacing the 4000 bonus magicka on Necropotence with the spell power equivalent, but this crops up a different kind of balancing problem. There are no buffs that boost your max magicka, only slotted skills. Major Sorcery would scale the 5 piece beyond what the "equivalent" would be. Throw a 2 piece Kena on to boost it further and you've got a sorc with almost 4k spell power and ~50k magicka.

Necropotence is a set that's intended to empower summoning builds. The problem here is that in ESO a lot of things count as pets when they shouldn't, and also the fact that the set empowers the character rather than the summoning aspect of a build.

It's a niche set that's never been a niche set in the first place.

I can agree with the pet classification, especially in the case of things that aren't technically summoned at will. Even the Nightblade shades I found somewhat questionable since those are more affiliated with Illusion magic than true Conjuration.

However, since Sorcerers are really the only ones that practice true summoning, the 5 piece, and the 5 piece of other seemingly class-specific bonuses, would have to be specifically tailored to be workable with only that class so that Sorcerers aren't the only one with a specially tailored set.

More on the topic of Shadowrend actually proccing Necro, one could argue that the tradeoff with it and any other "pet"-summoning helm is the lack of 100% uptime or control over its appearance. Really, this argument can't happen without also including Maw or Engine Guardian because the whole "monster helm being used to proc Necro" situation has been around since all of these sets have existed in the game, and I've never heard of anybody having an issue with the concept of the italicized until now.

Derra

Alpheu5 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

It was just a few months ago that people were saying that Curse became overpowered because it exploded a second time after 8 seconds.

Some people suggest replacing the 4000 bonus magicka on Necropotence with the spell power equivalent, but this crops up a different kind of balancing problem. There are no buffs that boost your max magicka, only slotted skills. Major Sorcery would scale the 5 piece beyond what the "equivalent" would be. Throw a 2 piece Kena on to boost it further and you've got a sorc with almost 4k spell power and ~50k magicka.

Necropotence is a set that's intended to empower summoning builds. The problem here is that in ESO a lot of things count as pets when they shouldn't, and also the fact that the set empowers the character rather than the summoning aspect of a build.

It's a niche set that's never been a niche set in the first place.

I can agree with the pet classification, especially in the case of things that aren't technically summoned at will. Even the Nightblade shades I found somewhat questionable since those are more affiliated with Illusion magic than true Conjuration.

However, since Sorcerers are really the only ones that practice true summoning, the 5 piece, and the 5 piece of other seemingly class-specific bonuses, would have to be specifically tailored to be workable with only that class so that Sorcerers aren't the only one with a specially tailored set.

More on the topic of Shadowrend actually proccing Necro, one could argue that the tradeoff with it and any other "pet"-summoning helm is the lack of 100% uptime or control over its appearance. Really, this argument can't happen without also including Maw or Engine Guardian because the whole "monster helm being used to proc Necro" situation has been around since all of these sets have existed in the game, and I've never heard of anybody having an issue with the concept of the italicized until now.

Well it was never a possibility to achieve close to 100% uptime with petproccs previously available. Now it is.

leepalmer95

So TL:DR.

2x shadowrend
5x amber
5x war maiden

For a dw mag sorc build

Or

2x shadowrend
5x amber
3x willpower
1x Nirn Msa Inferno staff
1x Nirn Master Resto staff?

Easy 50k~ magicka on a normal sorc build with nearly 100% uptime when not in a zerg?

Biro123

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So TL:DR.

2x shadowrend
5x amber
5x war maiden

For a dw mag sorc build

Or

2x shadowrend
5x amber
3x willpower
1x Nirn Msa Inferno staff
1x Nirn Master Resto staff?

Easy 50k~ magicka on a normal sorc build with nearly 100% uptime when not in a zerg?

Isn't Necropotence the whole point of running Shadowrend ?

Ishammael

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have never heard or seen 5pc necropotence being "overpowered" or too good outside of annoying pet builds in duels. Everyone keeps harbouring this out of some bizarre bias meanwhile the "meta" has been amberplasm for a variety of reasons.

But now that shadowrend suddenly got a buff people are panicking... lol.

It was just a few months ago that people were saying that Curse became overpowered because it exploded a second time after 8 seconds.

Some people suggest replacing the 4000 bonus magicka on Necropotence with the spell power equivalent, but this crops up a different kind of balancing problem. There are no buffs that boost your max magicka, only slotted skills. Major Sorcery would scale the 5 piece beyond what the "equivalent" would be. Throw a 2 piece Kena on to boost it further and you've got a sorc with almost 4k spell power and ~50k magicka.

Necropotence is a set that's intended to empower summoning builds. The problem here is that in ESO a lot of things count as pets when they shouldn't, and also the fact that the set empowers the character rather than the summoning aspect of a build.

It's a niche set that's never been a niche set in the first place.

I guess this is a good way to describe it.

Basically, necropotence outperforms all magicka sets when it is active. It is active 100% on a mWarden, mNB. In general, I see no particular reason why you would ever run any other sets on those classes.

Only the mSorc is forced to make a substantial trade to get it, i.e. pets.

This entire thread is about Shadowrend... Whose entire purpose is to enable Necropotence on spec where it is otherwise unavailable: mDK, mTemp, and mSorc (remove pet requirement).