Shadowrend is too lol

Ragnaroek93

This set procs Minor Maim, deals good damage, has a high proc chance, has the same uptime as cooldown (so almost perma up), bugs (or maybe that's somehow intended @ZOS_GinaBruno ?) nightblades out of cloak and procs Necropotence. That's way too much, that's not a pet but a Dota hero instead.
Please reduce the proc chance and give it something like 10 seconds uptime and 20 seconds cooldown and fix the bug that it pulls nightblades out of cloak, to actually allow some counterplay against this set (I don't consider not attacking my opponent as counterplay).

Greetings

actosh

The Sword from the morjuldin set as well pulls nb s out of cloak.

Regarding Shadowrend, its strong. Wouldnt call it to strong.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Chilly-McFreeze

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Lord_Hev

Good. I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the NB tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their cloak to carry them just as their procs did.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Well you can be a "traditional" sorc without building around pets to gain necro now, it's different.

Trashs1

how is the ai of the pet? does it hit the current attacker of the set user when it procs or is it just as stupid and unusable in pvp like sorc pets?

Jim_Pipp

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Well you can be a "traditional" sorc without building around pets to gain necro now, it's different.

I'm waiting till I see/hear builds claiming this is the meta before calling for nerfs. I just can't see a dk or templar running shadowrend and necropotence over, for instance, grothdar and silks of the sun.

I see shadowrend as a magicka tanking set, and I am yet to hear about a competitive magicka tank build.

Hutch679

I don't see Shadowrend as being much of a problem tbh. I don't think people will see it as much as they think they will.

Septimus_Magna

Lets add another thing to the list of effects that pull NBs out of cloak

casparian

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Good. I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the NB tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their cloak to carry them just as their procs did.

Consider how weird this would sound when applied to other classes.

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the DK tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their defensive buffs to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Templar tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their heals to carry them

I got my bathtub emptied and ready to be filled with all the Sorc tears when they realize they need to play smart and not expect their shields to carry them

Classes are meant to have effective defenses. Using those defenses to survive is smart play.

Ashamray

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Well you can be a "traditional" sorc without building around pets to gain necro now, it's different.

I'm waiting till I see/hear builds claiming this is the meta before calling for nerfs. I just can't see a dk or templar running shadowrend and necropotence over, for instance, grothdar and silks of the sun.

I see shadowrend as a magicka tanking set, and I am yet to hear about a competitive magicka tank build.

Grothdar is a waste in PvP.
I will definitely give a try Necrololtance Templar with Shadowrend. Now it's my turn to be a sorc!

Azurya

I say NERF it
and being a cloaking ganker I must admit that nobody got me ever with this

to cut short, I really don´t care

Derra

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Well you can be a "traditional" sorc without building around pets to gain necro now, it's different.

I'm waiting till I see/hear builds claiming this is the meta before calling for nerfs. I just can't see a dk or templar running shadowrend and necropotence over, for instance, grothdar and silks of the sun.

I see shadowrend as a magicka tanking set, and I am yet to hear about a competitive magicka tank build.

a magica tanking set. Boy you´re in for some suprises.

Emma_Overload

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing. EDIT: Shadowrend is apparently UNkillable!

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Feanor

Erm...last I heard you can't target the pet.

@Derra

Pirate Skeleton is a tanking set too

paulsimonps

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing.

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Wait, isn't it unkillable? If I remember right you can't even target it.

Sandman929

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing.

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Can't kill Shadowrend. The changes to this set give magDKs and magPlars a reason to wear Necropotence that they haven't had before. I'd like to see how that plays out before nerfing it.

Emma_Overload

paulsimonps wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing.

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Wait, isn't it unkillable? If I remember right you can't even target it.

Wow, really? Every other summon is killable, right? That's amazing if it's true.

Sandman929

Emma_Overload wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dude, the "counter play" is to KILL the frickin' thing.

Magicka users have SO FEW good monster sets compared to stamina users, and now you want to nerf one of the few good ones? How about giving us a bunch of proc damage sets like stamblades have been torturing us with for the last year?

Wait, isn't it unkillable? If I remember right you can't even target it.

Wow, really? Every other summon is killable, right? That's amazing if it's true.

Nightblade Shades can't be killed either...or the Warden Netches

actosh

Morkuldin animated sword cant be killed either.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Wow who would've thought that this little monster would be the ultimate NB killer

Transairion

This set procs Minor Maim, deals good damage, has a high proc chance, has the same uptime as cooldown (so almost perma up), bugs (or maybe that's somehow intended @ZOS_GinaBruno ?) nightblades out of cloak and procs Necropotence. That's way too much, that's not a pet but a Dota hero instead.

Er, almost everything listed there is what Nightblade's Summon Shade ability has done since... forever.

Shades apply Minor Maim, can be summoned on a whim (only 1 bar slot required too) and last quite some time, no cooldown so can be permanently active, and proc Necropotence while active. They cannot be targeted and are immune to damage, so you can't do anything about them.

Shades only downside is terrible damage, of which Shadowrend has slightly better. I say slightly because what you call "good damage" is only about two thirds (2/3) of what Maw of Infernal and Morkuldin can dish out.... and their damage is considered garbage by the ESO community.

Shadowrend also only procs now from getting damaged, which is fine in PvP but in PvE requires standing in stupid or being a tank. So I really don't understand the supposed OPness of Shadowrend being Summon Shade for all classes, which is all it's ever been really... now it just doesn't have that terrible proc rate.



What's the problem, exactly? If anything, this just proves Morkuldin and Maw of Infernal need higher DPS since they literally ONLY do damage and nothing else: otherwise they should give debuffs as well. Minor Fracture or something.

Waffennacht

They scale very poorly to enemy numbers, sure in a duel it's pretty solid, but in BGs far less so

Hutch679

Waffennacht wrote: »

They scale very poorly to enemy numbers, sure in a duel it's pretty solid, but in BGs far less so

I currently wear 1 shadowrend, 1 max magic on my mag sorc and own in bgs. If I remove 1 max magic piece I get a pet that can't be killed, does additional damage, pulls nbs out of stealth, and applies minor maim? Lol yep. Shadowrend it is.

NBrookus

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

@actosh,

I dont see any reason not to use shadowrend tbh, it can be said to be analogous to dw axes - what are the incentives NOT to use these setups?

Not actosh but however, there are better sets out there. Warden, NB and Sorcs have other means to run gain the necropotence bonus. The damage isn't over the top compared to other sets. And simply put, there are builds that utilize other sets better than this.

Well you can be a "traditional" sorc without building around pets to gain necro now, it's different.

I'm waiting till I see/hear builds claiming this is the meta before calling for nerfs. I just can't see a dk or templar running shadowrend and necropotence over, for instance, grothdar and silks of the sun.

I see shadowrend as a magicka tanking set, and I am yet to hear about a competitive magicka tank build.

DK Necro/Shadowrend PvP build was strong but squishy in Update 14. I had 52k magicka with Necropotence up, which is crazy high for a mDK. Greater Minor Maim uptime will reduce the squishiness considerably and proc'ing on damage taken will better reward melee magicka builds, whether it's templars, DKs or sorcs that play up close and personal. It's also a pet that procs Hunt Leader. Might make for an interesting stam warden build.

This is Update 14, pre-buffs:


Note that's a 14.7k flame lash, not a power lash, and (when not under a fossilize shield) 4.7k shadowrend hits. The target probably wasn't wearing impen, but a typical mDK build is lucky to see 8k crit Power Lashes on that kind of target.

Compare the damage to the stamina proc sets, and Shadowrend is in line with sets like Selene -- less damage but has extra utility. And it requires a specific build and using timing to make that build effective to work.

@Emma_Overload Nope, Shadowrend is not targetable or killable. This is a good thing; if you've ever meteored/dragon leaped a scamp it's seriously frustrating!

Waffennacht

Right, it's now a solid set.

Now.

But keep in mind, it'll be unfortunate to have it proc on a tank or on a REMF Lmao

Skander

Shadowrend alone isn't a problem. Shield and Shadorend are.

RinaldoGandolphi

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Derra

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have been running Necro + Shadowrend (well had the items in my bank) for months...I have toyed with it and in the last few weeks have been running it exclusively in PVP

The best use for it?

Against stupid DK tanks who can Leap for 15k...i keep them Minor Maimed 100% of the time and the unkillable and Immune to CC Shadowrend Clanfear adds additional pressure to the target im fighting. Shadowrend is also a very HARD counter to the Selene and Viper proc builds as it nerfs the damge of those procs.

Its not by any means Overpowered though. The Pet has the same AI issues as standard pets do, its not exactly that bright and requires you to heavy attack often in open world pvp in order to keep it focused on the target you want.

it requires far more micromanagement then other armor sets in the game.

in Duels its every bit as much cheese as say Wizards Riposte, but nearly everything in this game is cheese in duels.

This finally gives other classes besides Sorc's(DK, Templar, Nightblade, and Warden) a real reason to build around Necropotence for some overall class vareity.

Shadowrend isn't even close to BIS for any build next update, it is however very competitive in the niche it fills and the last thing it needs is to be nerfed.

Yes the Shadowrend is untargetable, and not able to be CC because if it was it would be useless. Even on the PTS it does very low damage, and is only good for getting the Necro Buff and for Maiming "one target"

Wizard's Riposte can have Minor Maim up 100% of the time against multiple targets, Shadowrend doesn't have 100% uptime and can Maim only one target. Its fairly balanced in that regard, and I am having fun with it. There are other far more OP setups then Shadowrend. Shadowrend is fun though.

Wait till you meet the first 55k+ magica build that has full access to "normal" sorc utility because it does not have to slot pets.

And wait to burst them down while having a worthless set until I trigger it? Or are you talking group battle where it Chase's a purp off into the distance.

But I digress, I'll just Betty your prey and watch your set, monster helm and major ability get countered.

It's a good set, it can be played around