STEVIL wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

@Koolio

Koolio wrote: »

You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes

All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.

So how do you do that with the crafted sets -- Seducer, Alchemist, Eyes of Mara, Spectre -- for which there are no accessory items, i.e., necklaces and rings? If it were possible to craft accessories for them, crafted armor sets would be a much more significant alternative than they are now to grinding for looted or found gear, or questing for gear rewards.

A Monster set will require the Head and Shoulders, leaving 5 body armor slots, and either (a) 1 Weapon slot which can be used for either a 1-handed or a 2-handed weapon; or (b) 2 Weapon slots, each for a 1-handed weapon, for Dual Wield, or (c) 1 Weapon slot for a 1-handed weapon, and 1 Shield slot, for One-Hand and Shield.

As far as I can determine, if you use two of the remaining five body armor slots for a non-crafted set that includes a necklace and two rings, then you have the first 5-piece set.

The only way that you can have a second 5-piece set is 3 body armor pieces plus either (a) a 1-handed weapon with 1 shield, or (b) 2 1-handed weapons. The 5 items can be either for a crafted set, or for a non-crafted set.

So, if a character equips a Staff, a Bow, a Battleaxe, a Maul, or a Greatsword (each of which require 2 weapon slots), the second set is only a 4-piece crafted set.

A crafted 5-piece set for One-Hand & Shield, or for Dual Wield, can work for any Class. However, neither one is the best option for Magicka-based Sorcerers, in particular. They rely as much on the Destruction Staff and/or Restoration Staff skill lines, respectively, for abilities, as much as they choose abilities from their Class skill lines and the Mages Guild skill line.

Note that a Templar is not required to equip a Staff to use their Restoring Light healing abilities, and only the Templar has a Class skill line of healing abilities. Characters of all other Classes must have a Restoration Staff equipped to use the healing abilities of that skill line.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
ESO would be more interesting if it included a Healers Guild, with healing abilities which either do not require a specific weapon, or perhaps would require equipping a one-handed "weapon" such as a wand or scepter -- like a 1-Hand Mace with magical healing power. The second slot could be used to equip either a Shield or an accessory which boosts healing, etc. In contrast, neither the Fighters Guild nor the Mages Guild have any healing abilities per se.

The way I have my Sorc set up is.
Inferno Lich Destro 3 jewelry waist
Chest legs hands boots resto staff Eyes of Mara
Ice heart helm and shoulder

Since eyes of Mara 5pc bonus only applies to resto staff moves I only need that on the back bar. If I get low on magic on my front bar lich procs which stays even when I switch to back bar.

Koolio wrote: »

Same with my nightblade build.
Toothrow 2h sharp 3 Jewelry chest
Marksmen bow legs hands feet waist
Selene helm and Shoulder

I get the crit bonus on my front bar from toothrow
I get the reduction and damage from marksmen on my back bar.

Eternal hunt marksmen alchemist cowards all can be used as back bar sets and any pure damage set up front.

Guys and how much DPS you can reach with that? We fight here for the possibility, that we can choose whatever would be possible and you show your lowbobbuilds.. sry..

you can choose whatever would be possible, but it seems like you are fighting here for other things athn what is possible and the longer this goes on the more and more it seems about DPS more than about diversity. Its seemingly more about getting to use the same high-yield DPS trial sets and such 552 with 11pc builds that you can with Dw/1hs and not about opening up more sets being played.

The attitude that lower than top yield sets are useless, not just slightly below top, is about the single most diversity killing thing this game or some of its community has going.1

Not for me, thanks.

Koensol wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.

When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.

It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.

Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!

SirAndy wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.

I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..

Let me try to ELI5 this for you.

Let's say I send you some presents.

You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.

This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword

Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword.

Set bonus are based on the number of items you are using from that set. So lets look at your gifts.

Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items. This activates the 4 item set bonus.


....



It just occurred to me by the kind of logic people are asking for 2h to count as 2 items in a set...
Boots should be two pieces (two feet)
Pants (two legs)
gloves (two hands)
shirts (two sleeves)

I know I know, ridiculous right?

Since when are real life aspects of objects the leading factor in game balance situations. It shouldn't matter one bit if it is 1 or 2 items, it should be about what is most balanced. There is already so many *** in this game that doesn't make sense (heavy attacks restoring stamina being a prime example), so I hope we can quit using these arguments.