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Why to hell i cant play with Staff and able to wear 2 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?!
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭seedubsrun wrote: »I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.MarzAttakz wrote: »overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...
Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.
I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...
Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.
Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.
Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)
There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..
Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.
Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.
Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?
They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!
"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.
When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.
It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.
Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.
I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..
Let me try to ELI5 this for you.
Let's say I send you some presents.
You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.
This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword
Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword.
Set bonus are based on the number of items you are using from that set. So lets look at your gifts.
Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items. This activates the 4 item set bonus.
....
It just occurred to me by the kind of logic people are asking for 2h to count as 2 items in a set...
Boots should be two pieces (two feet)
Pants (two legs)
gloves (two hands)
shirts (two sleeves)
I know I know, ridiculous right?
You change a good idea to idiocy mate..
I had nothing to do with the idiocy
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭MarzAttakz wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?
It isn't about damage, the issue is inflexibility and less build variety through the loss of a 5-piece bonus which are generally the most powerful bonuses, in addition to magicka users loosing sustain on one or both bars should they choose to go DW or S/B.QuebraRegra wrote: »Bow wants in on this discussion...
Indeed, as do Two Handers, apologies for the exclusion!
It kinda is. It's a trade off.0 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?
really no. staff = bow = 1h
The only exeption is 2H that has somewhat more dmg but DW (that allow 2 piece bonus) also has more dmg.2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?
really no. staff = bow = 1h
The only exeption is 2H that has somewhat more dmg but DW (that allow 2 piece bonus) also has more dmg.
Really? I always hit a ton harder with staff than I do with 1h. Haven't really used bow.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MarzAttakz wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Because that's called a trade off. You can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.
With very specific combinations, and only one 5-piece bonus active per bar.
What's the trade-off using dual-wield or sword and board?
Less sustained damage compared to using a staff. You obviously have less range too, which is a pretty big difference to safely zapping people from 40 meters away.1 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭seedubsrun wrote: »I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.MarzAttakz wrote: »overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...
Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.
I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...
Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.
Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.
Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)
There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..
Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.
Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.
Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?
They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!
My problem with Dual Wielding is that frankly it just isn't good compared to a Sword and Shield in real life combat - at least as it use to be. Dual Wielding is a duelling thing and not as effective. Its a common Videogame and movie trope though, along with putting sheathes on the back where you can't reach to get them... or fighting at swordfighting ranges which should result in a clinch or death but do neither.
I could also go into my irritation with where the player-character's eyes go when you swing a weapon. Why do you look down and to your far heel after swinging a sword? I understand the telegraphed moves for videogaming but this visual does annoy me as well.Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on July 11, 2017 9:19PMUS/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."4 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Why can you hold two swords and deal more damage from 40m range than with any other weapons?Edited by SodanTok on July 11, 2017 9:58PM5 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Why can you hold two swords and deal more damage from 40m range than with any other weapons?
The added coolness fact adds damage.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Why can you hold two swords and deal more damage from 40m range than with any other weapons?
Well overall you cannot. Between staff weaves and staff bonuses to the right types of damage you get more output from staff builds overall.
But there are indeed certain specific sub-cases in some class set combos such as the execute phase of a combat where the increase in one of the variables takes a more prominent role...
As in.. Choices matter and have consequences... A fact many seem willing to accept except when it comes to set counts because, you know, to some set counts must be considered somehow not a matter of choice but a cosmic absolute dozen like the number of virgins that can dance on a pinhead, the speed of light and the sound of one hand slapping.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!Edited by DeHei on July 12, 2017 12:55AMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
ForsakenSin✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Sigtric
"You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.
This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword
Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword."
Thank you for the present and i could (and did ) easy hold a large heavy sword in one hand and be efficient in it.. some of us are not week and need two hands
"By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
"You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
You can if you dual wield viper blades or a red mountain battle axe.......FROM THE 5TH PIECE BONUS.... oh wait the battle axe gets problematic better sword and board that red mountain.....
Edited by Ranger209 on July 12, 2017 2:29AM0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?
2h more burst for stam
detsro staff gives more sustain and sustain dmg but DW more burst if you have a class filler like a stamplar or magicka builds but stam builds don't lose sustain with it there are a few ways around like lich back bar or clever back bar 5 piece but its very limiting
that's why new mag weapon skill line and add jewelry crafting to make crafted sets more viable and more build optionsDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
this!!!
all 2handed weapons should count as 2 pieces to set bonuses!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Why can you hold two swords and deal more damage from 40m range than with any other weapons?
Well overall you cannot. Between staff weaves and staff bonuses to the right types of damage you get more output from staff builds overall.
But there are indeed certain specific sub-cases in some class set combos such as the execute phase of a combat where the increase in one of the variables takes a more prominent role...
As in.. Choices matter and have consequences... A fact many seem willing to accept except when it comes to set counts because, you know, to some set counts must be considered somehow not a matter of choice but a cosmic absolute dozen like the number of virgins that can dance on a pinhead, the speed of light and the sound of one hand slapping.
I was going to write you a lengthy post how DW is with highest damage and 5/5/2 still best at bursty ranged fight over any other weapon (and like 20% than bow), but you would only mention your choices matter and consequences.
Choices do matter and have consequences. Playing with bow has the consequence that you deal less damage than all other weapons from both range and melee and you lack set piece. But it is not absolute. This forum is proof that nothing here is absolute. Stuff changes all the time.
The only thing absolute relevant to this is that 2H weapons are one piece.That will be forever true, but has no impact on devs decision to not give it 2 set bonuses or to create another piece to supplement
Edited by SodanTok on July 12, 2017 8:39AM2 -
MarzAttakz✭✭✭✭MarzAttakz wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Because that's called a trade off. You can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.
With very specific combinations, and only one 5-piece bonus active per bar.
What's the trade-off using dual-wield or sword and board?
Less sustained damage compared to using a staff. You obviously have less range too, which is a pretty big difference to safely zapping people from 40 meters away.
Yes, as a magicka user, thank you, I was actually asking it in reverse though...
What are the trade-offs that a DW/S+B character have to make in order to have 5/5/2 bonuses active on both bars: none...Change the wording of the bonus to 5 SLOT instead of 5 PIECE then all the semantics can be thrown to the wayside, because it takes 5 slots to hold a 2 handed weapon and wear 3 pieces of jewelry, yes it does take 2 hands to hold a 2 handed weapon with each hand being a slot. Just like it takes 2 hands or 2 slots to hold 2 one handed weapons or 1 hander and shield.
Elegant, succinct, marvelous!Edited by MarzAttakz on July 12, 2017 10:10AM~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PC EU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Qura Scura | Altmer | MagBlade
Lhylyth | Breton | MagPlar
Nhynyth | Khajiit | MagDK
Ghwynyth | Dunmer | MagSorc
Loots-All-Urns | Argonian | MagDen
Shades-Of-Gray | Argonian | StamDK
Or'Chastration | Orc | StamSorc
Little Miss Famished | Orc | StamCro
Fhane Sharog | Orc | StamDen
Dead Moons Rising | Khajiit | StamBlade
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The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.3 -
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)
Pretty sure this was datamined a few months ago yeah. Just got to be patient
Edited by strikeback1247 on July 12, 2017 10:13AMP.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!2 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece! Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MarzAttakz wrote: »MarzAttakz wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Because that's called a trade off. You can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.
With very specific combinations, and only one 5-piece bonus active per bar.
What's the trade-off using dual-wield or sword and board?
Less sustained damage compared to using a staff. You obviously have less range too, which is a pretty big difference to safely zapping people from 40 meters away.
Yes, as a magicka user, thank you, I was actually asking it in reverse though...
What are the trade-offs that a DW/S+B character have to make in order to have 5/5/2 bonuses active on both bars: none...Change the wording of the bonus to 5 SLOT instead of 5 PIECE then all the semantics can be thrown to the wayside, because it takes 5 slots to hold a 2 handed weapon and wear 3 pieces of jewelry, yes it does take 2 hands to hold a 2 handed weapon with each hand being a slot. Just like it takes 2 hands or 2 slots to hold 2 one handed weapons or 1 hander and shield.
Elegant, succinct, marvelous!
DW s&bs lose the ability to get magicka back on heavys.
They lose ranged light for ranged ult gen as well as ranged damage.
Their lights and heavys are scales off stam and don't do much dmg.
Lose access to the best magicka ult in the game e.g. destro ult.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!Edited by DeHei on July 12, 2017 12:30PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Most stamina players in pvp run 2h and bow. This gives them 5/4/2. Your argument doesn't work.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Change the wording of the bonus to 5 SLOT instead of 5 PIECE then all the semantics can be thrown to the wayside, because it takes 5 slots to hold a 2 handed weapon and wear 3 pieces of jewelry, yes it does take 2 hands to hold a 2 handed weapon with each hand being a slot. Just like it takes 2 hands or 2 slots to hold 2 one handed weapons or 1 hander and shield.
This post is brilliant and should end the argument, in my opinion.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Edited by Emma_Overload on July 12, 2017 2:11PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0
