Stam- and Magickaplaystyle are much different to each other. Some really love Magicka and some really love Staminaplaystyle. I dont think anybody would switch after this would be changed. When i use Magicka, i think in about playing a kind of Gandalf, Merlin or guys like that. When i play a Staminachar i think to play an Aragon, Lancelott or the good oldschool blackknight from Monty Pytons "knights of the coconut"
I think you understand, this will not change what anybody want to be
Yes, it will change it in the same way the Stamina metagame changed it prior to Thieves Guild. Did you see that? I was there and I saw how nobody wanted to play magicka.
People tends to go with the meta and those who don't go with it are either great players or potatoes.
So explain me, why any average Joe should go stam under that meta?
Implications, you must consider them before throwing an idea.
Jitter, the problem goes beyond understanding what he means. It has to do with the implications of that decision. Currently the possibility of wearin 12 pcs is a stam based decision (magicka can too, but it's subpar). Staves counting as 2 pcs implies no reason to go stam.
I would like that change to happen because it will benefit me a lot, but I would be a liar if I say that the change is not going to affect the game, for the sole reason it will.
Bows and 2 handed swords, axes, and mauls would also get this, not just the magicka side of it.
I personality dont like trends and never try to go with them. You are right there are enough player with a lot of charakters. Allways after a short time, you can see from population for example in PvP, what is the current meta.
If they dont balance enough you will allways have thus problem with every change.. but is the solution dont change anything anymore?
They dont do really stresstests or something like that on the PTS. It isnt ZOS politicy to do that on the testserver. So they have only this real feedback over the forum.
When they would balance it right and we know this would be the first time in direct way, we had nothing anymore to speak about in forum
The set doesn't necessarily outweigh the weapon nor the other way around, it could go either way. Normally it is dependent more on the weapon than the set, but there are sets that can get me to go the other way. The real difference, again especially for magicka builds, are the classes and class abilities themselves.
You no doubt realize you can use the same sets that you use if 2 handers were worth 2 hits in a 5 piece set bonus. I also stated that I didn't think I would necessarily change sets in some cases either so here we are in agreement.
Bar swapping itself is not cumbersome. Having to watch for certain thresholds, or wait for certain things to proc on a backbar before returning to the front bar make activating 5 pc bonuses more cumbersome than how they just happen when they happen on a dual wield weapon wearer. You don't have to pay attention to that and plan bar swaps or add bar swaps to a rotation around procing a bonus to dual wield/ s&b builds since the 5pc bonus is always on. I generally am watching opponents, my health, my dots, my buffs, and now also another thing onto that when swapping to back bar to buff or whatever I need to go back there for.
Viper is poison, thunderbug is lightning, and a 2 hand staff should have more spell damage than a pair of mauls. These are just common sense issues here although one of them in this game is not true. Your weapon choice should impact it through the weapon skill lines not because it does or does not complete a 5 pc bonus.
The problem is not everyone has to make big choices. The dual wield and s&b stamina classes have easier choices than the others. As an alternative I will offer making the 5 pc bonus into a 7 pc bonus so that no one could obtain 2 of them and a 2 piece monster bonus in the same build. That would be just as well.
Balance is a word that implies a lot of things too. For example, all DW passives (except twin blade and blunt) imply a DW skill to take advantage, while 2H skills have a a passive that boost your stam recovery a 30% for 10 secs after kilig an enemy (no matter what skill you used to do it)
So, if we give the treatment of 12 pcs to 2H, we could have the very strange case of a proc set boosting your stam recovery by killing enemies... yes, we curently have that case with 2 sets, but the chances of 3 proc set doing it are way better. (red mountain + selene + viper) and I doubt a lot that is balanced.
So, are you ok, with losing that passive for an extra piece on 2H? Because that's the way it works, if you want something you have to give away something
When we nearly reach balance with losing that to get full bonis with every weapon, i would agree without thinking about it!
I have learned to accept many things man, my main is magicka Templar
Yup, but there's a lot of people who'll never do that trade
in any case, I believe currently is quite balanced. It could be better, yes, but sometimes fixing what already works....
So how do you do that with the crafted sets -- Seducer, Alchemist, Eyes of Mara, Spectre -- for which there are no accessory items, i.e., necklaces and rings? If it were possible to craft accessories for them, crafted armor sets would be a much more significant alternative than they are now to grinding for looted or found gear, or questing for gear rewards.You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes
All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.
Shadowshire wrote: »@Koolio So how do you do that with the crafted sets -- Seducer, Alchemist, Eyes of Mara, Spectre -- for which there are no accessory items, i.e., necklaces and rings? If it were possible to craft accessories for them, crafted armor sets would be a much more significant alternative than they are now to grinding for looted or found gear, or questing for gear rewards.
A Monster set will require the Head and Shoulders, leaving 5 body armor slots, and either (a) 1 Weapon slot which can be used for either a 1-handed or a 2-handed weapon; or (b) 2 Weapon slots, each for a 1-handed weapon, for Dual Wield, or (c) 1 Weapon slot for a 1-handed weapon, and 1 Shield slot, for One-Hand and Shield.
As far as I can determine, if you use two of the remaining five body armor slots for a non-crafted set that includes a necklace and two rings, then you have the first 5-piece set.
The only way that you can have a second 5-piece set is 3 body armor pieces plus either (a) a 1-handed weapon with 1 shield, or (b) 2 1-handed weapons. The 5 items can be either for a crafted set, or for a non-crafted set.
So, if a character equips a Staff, a Bow, a Battleaxe, a Maul, or a Greatsword (each of which require 2 weapon slots), the second set is only a 4-piece crafted set.
A crafted 5-piece set for One-Hand & Shield, or for Dual Wield, can work for any Class. However, neither one is the best option for Magicka-based Sorcerers, in particular. They rely as much on the Destruction Staff and/or Restoration Staff skill lines, respectively, for abilities, as much as they choose abilities from their Class skill lines and the Mages Guild skill line.
Note that a Templar is not required to equip a Staff to use their Restoring Light healing abilities, and only the Templar has a Class skill line of healing abilities. Characters of all other Classes must have a Restoration Staff equipped to use the healing abilities of that skill line.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
ESO would be more interesting if it included a Healers Guild, with healing abilities which either do not require a specific weapon, or perhaps would require equipping a one-handed "weapon" such as a wand or scepter -- like a 1-Hand Mace with magical healing power. The second slot could be used to equip either a Shield or an accessory which boosts healing, etc. In contrast, neither the Fighters Guild nor the Mages Guild have any healing abilities per se.
Example with alchemist
2 pc monster
5 pc drop set - 3 jewels, boot, staff front bar - say mothers sorrow
5pc alchemist - chest, gloves, legs, belt, staff back bar
When you are ready to pop potion or start your attack or whatever, you swap to back bar as part of your rotation, redo your buffs/whatever rotation calls for, then pop potion
swap to front bar and enjoy all the benefits of all three sets
continue your fight and bash and rotate until later the alchemist does its trick.
Nobody can have more than one crafted set - whether 12pc build or 11pc build. So both 11pc and 12pc get to de facto 552 by means of one monster, one drop set with jewels and one crafted or dropped. tho technically if it were two drop sets the jewels may be split between them.
Now to me seducer is not a strong contender for an 11pc 552 swapper build but iirc eyes of mara with resto back bar was. maybe is seducer and its bar was whether the heavy magica drain effects were placed?
Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Or just go 5-5-1... generally opting for Molag kena shoulders for the bonus
Its possible and only when you play a bombbuild with eye of storm, it make sense. You attack every 45Sec...
but i really dont like this. This builds played from 5-10 guys in 1 group, which coordinate it via teamspeak was the reason for many flames.. There was a red group full of templar, which used this.. permaheal until ult is full and then they killed randomgroups.. really boring gameplay.. do you like that??
Its not about being good it's about opening up the build system. Its like a bunch of people in this thread dont WANT to understand the OP.
if you do not like the gameplay of a given build, choose other choices. if there is a particular gameplay you enjoy within the rules, make choices to get you to that.
not sure i see the problem.
While i agree there should be added to the game at some point, maybe next chapter, a 12pc magica close range option, no matter what they do you will always be faced with having to make choices to get to the playstyle you want within the rules.
I was not advocating for your bomb build playstyle or against it, just answering the question about how that could work with some of the crafted sets mentioned.
but frankly, when you combine clever ~700 spell damage 5pc to julianos ~300 spell dmg the difference over 45s is like 67 spell damage or maybe half a typical 2-3-4pc spell dmg boost (admitedly the 2-3-4 for julianos are more aggressive.) So to me while the output over long term is a little less for clever alchey, that doesn't mean you are limited to the 15s run-ins, just that those are where you excel. So, while you may see clever only good for one specific play maneuver, that is your viuewpoint and not some outcome mandated by the sets themselves.
Clearly clever is better for bursty runs, but it doesn't suck everywhere else - except for the "second or third is useless" mindset.
Opening up too much risks breaking the game
That is the only combination i really found not bad. But with for example 2piece skoria you really deal much more damage.
Better option is a vMSA weapon with right trait, if you have. 189 spelldamage to only 129..
I use the 5 3 2 1 combination actually.. I only waste a 4th and 5th piece bonus for 1 vMSA weapon.. actually the best compromise..
Shadowshire wrote: »@Koolio So how do you do that with the crafted sets -- Seducer, Alchemist, Eyes of Mara, Spectre -- for which there are no accessory items, i.e., necklaces and rings? If it were possible to craft accessories for them, crafted armor sets would be a much more significant alternative than they are now to grinding for looted or found gear, or questing for gear rewards.
A Monster set will require the Head and Shoulders, leaving 5 body armor slots, and either (a) 1 Weapon slot which can be used for either a 1-handed or a 2-handed weapon; or (b) 2 Weapon slots, each for a 1-handed weapon, for Dual Wield, or (c) 1 Weapon slot for a 1-handed weapon, and 1 Shield slot, for One-Hand and Shield.
As far as I can determine, if you use two of the remaining five body armor slots for a non-crafted set that includes a necklace and two rings, then you have the first 5-piece set.
The only way that you can have a second 5-piece set is 3 body armor pieces plus either (a) a 1-handed weapon with 1 shield, or (b) 2 1-handed weapons. The 5 items can be either for a crafted set, or for a non-crafted set.
So, if a character equips a Staff, a Bow, a Battleaxe, a Maul, or a Greatsword (each of which require 2 weapon slots), the second set is only a 4-piece crafted set.
A crafted 5-piece set for One-Hand & Shield, or for Dual Wield, can work for any Class. However, neither one is the best option for Magicka-based Sorcerers, in particular. They rely as much on the Destruction Staff and/or Restoration Staff skill lines, respectively, for abilities, as much as they choose abilities from their Class skill lines and the Mages Guild skill line.
Note that a Templar is not required to equip a Staff to use their Restoring Light healing abilities, and only the Templar has a Class skill line of healing abilities. Characters of all other Classes must have a Restoration Staff equipped to use the healing abilities of that skill line.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
ESO would be more interesting if it included a Healers Guild, with healing abilities which either do not require a specific weapon, or perhaps would require equipping a one-handed "weapon" such as a wand or scepter -- like a 1-Hand Mace with magical healing power. The second slot could be used to equip either a Shield or an accessory which boosts healing, etc. In contrast, neither the Fighters Guild nor the Mages Guild have any healing abilities per se.
" dont honor that playstyle, because its for zerging..."
I really have to ask what does it matter what playstyles *I* honor as far as any game design decision?
There are lots people of different backgrounds and codes so my own "honor this" or "honor that" if applied to game design decisions sounds like me forcing others to my beliefs?
Am I wrong?
The way I have my Sorc set up is.
Inferno Lich Destro 3 jewelry waist
Chest legs hands boots resto staff Eyes of Mara
Ice heart helm and shoulder
Since eyes of Mara 5pc bonus only applies to resto staff moves I only need that on the back bar. If I get low on magic on my front bar lich procs which stays even when I switch to back bar.
Same with my nightblade build.
Toothrow 2h sharp 3 Jewelry chest
Marksmen bow legs hands feet waist
Selene helm and Shoulder
I get the crit bonus on my front bar from toothrow
I get the reduction and damage from marksmen on my back bar.
Eternal hunt marksmen alchemist cowards all can be used as back bar sets and any pure damage set up front.
Guys and how much DPS you can reach with that? We fight here for the possibility, that we can choose whatever would be possible and you show your lowbobbuilds.. sry..
Maybe I should have mentioned I only pvp lol
Ok, i saw it was my mistake. My last statements could let you think, that this is only a PvP thread. I like PvP too.. In PvE for example clever alchemist is complete useless. Other builds like you said arent a option there too.. only moondancer as trialversion was a possible option and maybe master architekt could be another too... BUT like i allready explained, PvE builds need weaponswaps nearly every 3-5sec for best damageoutput... So you cant stack 15sec on your mainbar..
In Total you dont have good options for PvE, while some builds for some guys seems to work..
Guys and how much DPS you can reach with that? We fight here for the possibility, that we can choose whatever would be possible and you show your lowbobbuilds.. sry..
complete useless and not the best DPS are not synonyms for most folks and the idea that they are is part of the problem this game suffers with balancing.
is it as good as some trial set builds not using crafted, not at all. is it enough to complete most all of the content in this game , even vet trials and dungeons, sure.