Why to hell i cant play with Staff and able to wear 2 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?!

DeHei

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...

Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

seedubsrun

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

DeHei

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Drachenfier

Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?

Emma_Overload

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

That's not ZOS' reasoning. That's just what random yahoos say here on the forums. ZOS rarely explains the reasons they do anything.

Emma_Overload

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

Your argument completely falls apart in PvP, where there is no such thing as "ranged" combat, thanks to gap closers and snares. The fact is that stam builds have always had this massively unfair advantage over magicka builds, and they don;t want to give it up!

Sigtric

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

QuebraRegra

Bow wants in on this discussion...

MarzAttakz

Drachenfier wrote: »

Don't you already get more damage from 2h weapons?

It isn't about damage, the issue is inflexibility and less build variety through the loss of a 5-piece bonus which are generally the most powerful bonuses, in addition to magicka users loosing sustain on one or both bars should they choose to go DW or S/B.

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Bow wants in on this discussion...

Indeed, as do Two Handers, apologies for the exclusion!

leepalmer95

Because thats called a trade off.

your 1 weapon isn't two seperate pieces.

you can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.

MarzAttakz

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Because that's called a trade off. You can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.

With very specific combinations, and only one 5-piece bonus active per bar.

What's the trade-off using dual-wield or sword and board?

TheNuminous1

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Because thats called a trade off.

your 1 weapon isn't two seperate pieces.

you can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Because that's called a trade off. You can go 2/5/5 on a 2h or staff build.

With very specific combinations, and only one 5-piece bonus active per bar.

What's the trade-off using dual-wield or sword and board?

Since the patch notes for the pts came yesterday I've been so infuriated.

On my mag dk I run 5 5 2 moondancer spellweave grothdar.
The new sets coming in the patch notes has a sweet set called flame blossom..

So I have been wanting to run 5 5 2 with silks of the sun and flame blossom. But with 2 staves it is just impossible to have both 5 piece up at the same time.

I've always been at terms with how the mag staff builds can only have a second 5 piece on the backbar but now all I can think about is how I wish staves counted as 2 set pieces.

Oompuh

Because you only have 11 items. My sword and shield is 2 items. your staff is 1 item.

DeHei

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

DeHei

Oompuh wrote: »

Because you only have 11 items. My sword and shield is 2 items. your staff is 1 item.

Ty for sharing your wisdom. I let you know, when they hopefully change it anytime, that you able to share it again in other threads to amuse all other guys

Sigtric

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.

When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.

It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.

SirAndy

DeHei wrote: »

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.

DeHei

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.

When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.

It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.

Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!

SirAndy wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.

I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..

Koolio

You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes

All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.

SodanTok

Koolio wrote: »

You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes

All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.

Almost same list as this one that lists all sets you can use in 5/5/2 combination on 1h+s/dual wield:
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets

Maikon

I'm just waiting for that 1 person to start a thread crying about costumes not having set bonuses.

DeHei

Koolio wrote: »

You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes

All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.

yes actually just with 2x 1H swords or 1H+shield.. and that is the problem. Why we just have no other option. Why we cant build 2 Monsterset pieces and 2x 5 pieces of any set with every weapon? Whats the problem. If the damage is too high then, they can balance it!

Narvuntien

Well you run a set that has an ongoing buff e.g burning spellweave, clever alchemist. Then you activate it on the back bar and switch.

Sigtric

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.

When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.

It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.

Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!

SirAndy wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.

I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..

Let me try to ELI5 this for you.

Let's say I send you some presents.

You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.

This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword

Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword.

Set bonus are based on the number of items you are using from that set. So lets look at your gifts.

Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items. This activates the 4 item set bonus.


....



It just occurred to me by the kind of logic people are asking for 2h to count as 2 items in a set...
Boots should be two pieces (two feet)
Pants (two legs)
gloves (two hands)
shirts (two sleeves)

I know I know, ridiculous right?

Koolio

DeHei wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

You can.
Lich
Seducer
Alchemist
Warlock
Eyes of Mara
Spectre Eyes

All of these sets you can use with 2 5pc sets and a monster set.

yes actually just with 2x 1H swords or 1H+shield.. and that is the problem. Why we just have no other option. Why we cant build 2 Monsterset pieces and 2x 5 pieces of any set with every weapon? Whats the problem. If the damage is too high then, they can balance it!

No all of these can be use with destro resto combo

Like 3 jewelry 1 body 1 resto Lich. 4 body julianos 1 destro staff. Monster set.

2 5pc sets and a monster with Two staffs.

All the sets I mentioned have effects that work/carry over from the other bar.

When you switch to resto Lich procs and lasts for 20secs regardless of bar.

DeHei

Narvuntien wrote: »

Well you run a set that has an ongoing buff e.g burning spellweave, clever alchemist. Then you activate it on the back bar and switch.

Wonderful idea, in PvE as a DD is that possible, but try it in PvP. I can choose between dual wield and healingstaff or destrostaff and 1H+shield. Destrostaff and healingstaff are just possible with 4parts of a 5piece set or i go with willpower (not a bad set, true) and Maelstromweapons (some guys dont have them!). But why they just can make it better for all to have the choose!

Ranger209

Change the wording of the bonus to 5 SLOT instead of 5 PIECE then all the semantics can be thrown to the wayside, because it takes 5 slots to hold a 2 handed weapon and wear 3 pieces of jewelry, yes it does take 2 hands to hold a 2 handed weapon with each hand being a slot. Just like it takes 2 hands or 2 slots to hold 2 one handed weapons or 1 hander and shield.

DeHei

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.

MarzAttakz wrote: »

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.

Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...

Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.

I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...

Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.

Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.

Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.

Docmandu wrote: »

Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)

There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..

Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.

Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.

Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?

They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!

"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.

When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.

It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.

Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!

SirAndy wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!

No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.

I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..

Let me try to ELI5 this for you.

Let's say I send you some presents.

You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.

This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword

Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword.

Set bonus are based on the number of items you are using from that set. So lets look at your gifts.

Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items. This activates the 4 item set bonus.


....



It just occurred to me by the kind of logic people are asking for 2h to count as 2 items in a set...
Boots should be two pieces (two feet)
Pants (two legs)
gloves (two hands)
shirts (two sleeves)

I know I know, ridiculous right?

You change a good idea to idiocy mate..