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Why to hell i cant play with Staff and able to wear 2 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?!
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Dw has worse skills overall in pvp.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
MarzAttakz✭✭✭✭DW s&bs lose the ability to get magicka back on heavys.
They lose ranged light for ranged ult gen as well as ranged damage.
Their lights and heavys are scales off stam and don't do much dmg.
Lose access to the best magicka ult in the game e.g. destro ult.
You're stating more things that magicka-users give up, are you supporting the OP's suggestion or refuting it?
In simple terms... What do stamina-based characters give up when building 2/5/5 with DW || S&B?
Nothing at all, yet magicka-users, and to a lesser degree 2h/bow stam builds, just have to suck it up because... trade-off?
I'm sorry that's not a good enough reason. Are people purposefully obtuse? How does this proposed solution not cater to everyone fairly ...Change the wording of the bonus to 5 SLOT instead of 5 PIECE then all the semantics can be thrown to the wayside, because it takes 5 slots to hold a 2 handed weapon and wear 3 pieces of jewelry, yes it does take 2 hands to hold a 2 handed weapon with each hand being a slot. Just like it takes 2 hands or 2 slots to hold 2 one handed weapons or 1 hander and shield.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PC EU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Qura Scura | Altmer | MagBlade
Lhylyth | Breton | MagPlar
Nhynyth | Khajiit | MagDK
Ghwynyth | Dunmer | MagSorc
Loots-All-Urns | Argonian | MagDen
Shades-Of-Gray | Argonian | StamDK
Or'Chastration | Orc | StamSorc
Little Miss Famished | Orc | StamCro
Fhane Sharog | Orc | StamDen
Dead Moons Rising | Khajiit | StamBlade
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.2 -
yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭seedubsrun wrote: »I feel your pain man. I would love to do it too. I think the main reasoning (if you could call it that) is that mag toons, magsorcs especially, are already really powerful. If you could wear two full 5-piece and a monster set most mag characters would be way overpowered. Then everyone else would cry about it, the nerf hammer would swing, and then a bunch of pointless, infuriating, game ruining "balances" would happen and then we'd just be worse off than before. A lot of folks have suggested ways to do it that all sound great but in the end it would almost certainly cause more issues than fix.overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.MarzAttakz wrote: »overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Let's take that logic, run with it and maybe find something that makes sense ... your left hand holds one item, your right holds another, so +2 item bonus. Are the bonuses from your hands or the items themselves? Yes, unfortunately the items...
Now on to magicka-based characters ... the only weapons to return magicka on heavy attacks are staves, and the only way to run 5+5+2 is DW or S/B - that extra 5th bonus better be worth the loss of resource return on at least one bar. Similarly for stamina characters running 2H, but they do get their primary resource back from a heavy attack.
I've thought about possible ways to address this, I'm invested in magicka characters and a 2H stam build, so I have an agenda...
Easiest solution: Make any two-handed weapon count as two slots without changing the item stats (has coding and calculation implications because it's an exception to the rule) works for magicka and 2H stamina users.
Not-so-easy solution: Allow a second 2H item to be placed in the off-hand slot, stats are ignored (could get messy with justifications here) but piece applies to set bonus count.
Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.Didn't somebody find something while mining the datafiles about a possible offhand item for staff wielders?! (ie. book or orb type of thingy, just to get 1 extra itemslot)
There are more possibilitys how it could work.. actually its a desaster, nobody needed to choose between more Damage or sustain. It should be possible to have both... For me they could enter a free slot on weapon when you wear a 2H weapon. This slot can be a ring or something other, which just give 1 set bonus and nothing more. There are room for many ideas and it shouldnt be like it actually is..
Bolded: Originally in the game when it launched you DID need to make choices on how to balance your DPS versus your sustain. You have to make choices about everything in this game. Sacrifice one thing for another: gear, skills on your bars, weapons used, etc.
Then CP and powercreep happened and top DPS and sustain was available at the same time, this was not intended, the last patch that came with the Morrowind update was one step towards going back to how the game was intended to play. Stack DPS at the cost of sustain, or balance it out; lower DPS with the ability to sustain it better. Granted, I don't think we're at that point yet.
Second bolded: why shouldn't it? Because you don't think so?
They just should, because there isnt any logic to make most damage with special magicka builds just over dual wield.. they can make it happen and balance the 2H weapons new. There isnt much to Balance i think, because there is a reason why many guys play with dual wield!
"They just should" isn't a reason for anything.
When you ask people who know anything why they are dual wielding on a magicka character the primary answer is "spell power". A second 5pc bonus is just icing.
It's working logically now. Set bonuses activate on the number of items of that set you are using. A single staff/bow/2h is one item. Look at the tooltips.
Explain me the logic pls. How much sense it makes, that a Weapon for Staminabuilds give you best stats?!This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
No. It's one single two handed weapon. One weapon, two hands. One weapon. Not two. Just one.
I know that, but i dont agree this, because it makes no sense..
Let me try to ELI5 this for you.
Let's say I send you some presents.
You open the packages to find a pair of boots, a pair of pants, a shirt and a rather large and heavy sword.
This is four items:
1. boots
2. pants
3. shirt
4. big sword
Just because you have to hold the sword in two hands doesn't make it two swords, it's still one sword.
Set bonus are based on the number of items you are using from that set. So lets look at your gifts.
Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items. This activates the 4 item set bonus.
....
It just occurred to me by the kind of logic people are asking for 2h to count as 2 items in a set...
Boots should be two pieces (two feet)
Pants (two legs)
gloves (two hands)
shirts (two sleeves)
I know I know, ridiculous right?
It is. But is it equally ridiculous to use logic to defend the arbitrary system ZoS has."Boots, pants, shirt, sword. Four items."
That's 5 items. Unless you walk around with only 1 boot.
The 2H should count as two items advocates would not argue that pants should count as two items because of two legs because that's nonsense. They might, however, point out the inconsistency that somehow a pair of swords or axes count for two items but not a pair of gloves or boots. I mean if we are so bent on counting the number of items as we would to a kindergarten child of five, perhaps we ought to be consistent.
And I'm still not sure why exactly a belt should count as item but not underwear (must this item of clothing be seen?) or say suspenders (must this item of clothing be considered fashionable to be eligible as a set bonus?)
Why aren't quiver/arrows considered items? Going back to the ELI5 premise, they are not physically attached to the bow and should be counted separately like say a sword and shield is.
Trying to recognize logic or rationale in ZoS's system is futile because it's anything but. If people like the system, that's fine, but can they please come up with better rationale to defend it because what it usually boils down to is an arbitrary defense of the status quo simply because that's how it has been3 -
Grimhallow✭✭✭Just to chime in on this one:
I am not sure if I agree completely; but the reason this is kept (particularly for magicka classes), is because the tradeoff is a heavy/light attack weave. In exchange for an extra set and increased weapon damage, you lose your ranged light/heavy attacks.
It is certainly weird to have a meta build include dual wield swords on a magicka sorcerer/templar, but I can't deny that it would feel unbalanced if an inferno staff could give you an additional buff.
Not to mention stamina 2h is already way overperforming other weapon options.Edited by Grimhallow on July 12, 2017 6:35PM0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Though I would like a lot to see 2H weapons count as 2 pieces (I have like a megazillion builds based on that), I have to recognize it will hurt a lot DW and S/B, making 2h build too stronk.
For example: I have a mageblade build focused on dots. Currently I'm running 5 War Maiden + 5 Julianos + 1 Kena. Though she doesn't reach 2k spell dmg (arounf 1.9k when buffed), she has a 16k cripple on her tooltip. In Cyro, cripple crits 4k. It's a solid build just the way she is.
What would I do if the destro staff counts as a 2 pieces set? Easy, drop kena for Skoria.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Most stamina players in pvp run 2h and bow. This gives them 5/4/2. Your argument doesn't work.
I dont know how many unexperienced PvPler play, but all the guys i know on Stamina are playing with dual wield or 1H+shield on 1 bar! This guys are all very experienced and much play since the beta. Just heared about some ganker in battlegrounds, which playing builds like you said. Trust me, they will all learn, that they have more success with Dual wield/1H+Shield on one bar! DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Edited by DeHei on July 12, 2017 7:38PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argumentEdited by DeHei on July 13, 2017 6:21AMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Ostaradoe✭✭✭I'm confused now because I play a magsorc and and working towards the following set up (complete apart from getting purple or gold jewellery and monster set) Is this not a 5-5-2 set up?
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
Breeches - Necropotence
Gloves - Necropotence
Necklace - Necropotence
Ring 1 - Necropotence
Ring 2 - Necropotence
Hat - Monster set 1
Shoulders - Monster set 2
Or am I doing something so unacceptable that no-one counts this as a proper set up? Please explain!1 -
ForsakenSin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
still 4 buddy you switch to another bar you will have
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
still 4 bud .. you need to remove Shoulders - Monster set 2 and place it with julianos"By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
"You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."1 -
Ostaradoe✭✭✭ForsakenSin wrote: »Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
still 4 buddy you switch to another bar you will have
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
still 4 bud .. you need to remove Shoulders - Monster set 2 and place it with julianos
Oh of course, only 1 stave active at a time. I'm laughing at myself right now!1 -
WildWilbur✭✭✭✭IMO it's an oversight in game design. Nobody should be able to use two 5piece sets and a monster set at the front bar. ONE 5piece and monster set at a time and everyone had to choose. But i'm quiet sure i'm rather alone with this thinking :-)"Call me a killjoy, but I think that because this is not to my taste, no one else should be able to enjoy it." Marge Simpson1
-
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol @ all the logic posts, and people counting to 11. This isnt about logic, it's about balance and gameplay. Not that I agree with OP but you guys are literally derailing the thread. Logic, lol...1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭I'm confused now because I play a magsorc and and working towards the following set up (complete apart from getting purple or gold jewellery and monster set) Is this not a 5-5-2 set up?
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
Breeches - Necropotence
Gloves - Necropotence
Necklace - Necropotence
Ring 1 - Necropotence
Ring 2 - Necropotence
Hat - Monster set 1
Shoulders - Monster set 2
Or am I doing something so unacceptable that no-one counts this as a proper set up? Please explain!
no sry mate, you have 5 pieces juljanos, but you are just able to have 1 weapon active same time.. its not working and thats the reason for this thread. Welcome
But isnt the first threat the last years for this thematic..
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I would actually support a new skill line for this. Maybe "Illusion Wand" or "Alteration Orb"?MarzAttakz wrote: »Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I would actually support a new skill line for this. Maybe "Illusion Wand" or "Alteration Orb"?MarzAttakz wrote: »Hard solution: Introduce new magicka range-based one-handed items (much coding, design, balancing required) - 2H Stamina users still screwed for a 5 piece bonus.1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Double post. Ew.Edited by milesrodneymcneely2_ESO on July 13, 2017 6:54AM0 -
Ostaradoe✭✭✭I'm confused now because I play a magsorc and and working towards the following set up (complete apart from getting purple or gold jewellery and monster set) Is this not a 5-5-2 set up?
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
Breeches - Necropotence
Gloves - Necropotence
Necklace - Necropotence
Ring 1 - Necropotence
Ring 2 - Necropotence
Hat - Monster set 1
Shoulders - Monster set 2
Or am I doing something so unacceptable that no-one counts this as a proper set up? Please explain!
no sry mate, you have 5 pieces juljanos, but you are just able to have 1 weapon active same time.. its not working and thats the reason for this thread. Welcome
But isnt the first threat the last years for this thematic..
Yeah I get it now, blame it on a mixture of age and too much, um...
This does throw out my whole plan. My own fault but it feels like a bit of a smack in the face realising that I cant have 5-5-2 like everyone else.
A blade attached to the end of the staff as an offhand weapon slot, or another kind of staff upgrade could be interesting. Or someone mentioned a book or orb offhand.1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭I'm confused now because I play a magsorc and and working towards the following set up (complete apart from getting purple or gold jewellery and monster set) Is this not a 5-5-2 set up?
Boots - Julianos
Chest - Julianos
Sash - Julianos
Inferno Staff - Julianos
Lightening Staff - Julianos
Breeches - Necropotence
Gloves - Necropotence
Necklace - Necropotence
Ring 1 - Necropotence
Ring 2 - Necropotence
Hat - Monster set 1
Shoulders - Monster set 2
Or am I doing something so unacceptable that no-one counts this as a proper set up? Please explain!
no sry mate, you have 5 pieces juljanos, but you are just able to have 1 weapon active same time.. its not working and thats the reason for this thread. Welcome
But isnt the first threat the last years for this thematic..
Yeah I get it now, blame it on a mixture of age and too much, um...
This does throw out my whole plan. My own fault but it feels like a bit of a smack in the face realising that I cant have 5-5-2 like everyone else.
A blade attached to the end of the staff as an offhand weapon slot, or another kind of staff upgrade could be interesting. Or someone mentioned a book or orb offhand.
yeah, all magickaplayer hope for that..DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
Edited by DeHei on July 13, 2017 4:14PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
You sure?
5-4-2 using the right sets in the coming patch will be quite popular... Consider that combat physician is gonna give you moar spell crit in 4 pieces than the 5th bonus given by mother's sorrowSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
You sure?
5-4-2 using the right sets in the coming patch will be quite popular... Consider that combat physician is gonna give you moar spell crit in 4 pieces than the 5th bonus given by mother's sorrow
Look for example to nekropotence, the 5 piece bonus is more then 400% higher then the bonis before. Next it will "just" 380% or something like that. 5 piece bonis are very unique and nearly a must have especially for PvP!..DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
You sure?
5-4-2 using the right sets in the coming patch will be quite popular... Consider that combat physician is gonna give you moar spell crit in 4 pieces than the 5th bonus given by mother's sorrow
Look for example to nekropotence, the 5 piece bonus is more then 400% higher then the bonis before. Next it will "just" 380% or something like that. 5 piece bonis are very unique and nearly a must have especially for PvP!..
But you can PvP without 5 bonus pieces. It is harder, but achievable.
In fact, 4-4-4 seems legitSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0
