Maintenance for the week of December 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
Why to hell i cant play with Staff and able to wear 2 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?!
-
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
You sure?
5-4-2 using the right sets in the coming patch will be quite popular... Consider that combat physician is gonna give you moar spell crit in 4 pieces than the 5th bonus given by mother's sorrow
Look for example to nekropotence, the 5 piece bonus is more then 400% higher then the bonis before. Next it will "just" 380% or something like that. 5 piece bonis are very unique and nearly a must have especially for PvP!..
But you can PvP without 5 bonus pieces. It is harder, but achievable.
In fact, 4-4-4 seems legit
I could go without any sets or directly naked and wave to my "friendly" opponents >_<Edited by DeHei on July 13, 2017 6:03PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Then you should look on your stats before you are talking wrong things!
Its simply not possible to wear a complete monsterset and have 2 5piece sets active with Destro/Healingstaff...
Yeah difficult to understand and thats the problem!
But with 2 low budget procc sets you can do like you said. If you are happy with these, is fine. I will fighting for this disbalance many guys like me see..Edited by DeHei on July 14, 2017 3:24PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Then you should look on your stats before you are talking wrong things!
Its simply not possible to wear a complete monsterset and have 2 5piece sets active with Destro/Healingstaff...
Yeah difficult to understand and thats the problem!
But with 2 low budget procc sets you can do like you said. If you are happy with these, is fine. I will fighting for this disbalance many guys like me see..
I can run and do run day Juliana front lamiia back and monster we hour frequently. Similar with watchman for bows. The main multi i use is on backbar too, might have a when slotted buff front bar. Works like a charm and I get full benefit with staves.
You can get similar results with clever ache and other sets.
So saying "Its simply not possible to wear a complete monsterset and have 2 5piece sets active with Destro/Healingstaff..." Highlights your speaking " wrong things".
What the set count does in a pre-maelstrom\master build is make you choose "different" sets than you would for a 12pc build.
It simply does not make it not possible to get full 552 active... Not one bit.
But for some, it seems being pushed to different is inexcusable or unacceptable.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Grimhallow✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
I don't know why this pushed my buttons, but it did.
2h/bow is not crap in duels. In general, it is the most viable option (especially in open world, where you can't control who or how many you are fighting). Like I said when I first came in here, if anything 2h should lose the rally buff to the fighter's guild to promote weapon diversity in pvp, because dual wield is not viable in open world. Stam just needs the burst heal- not to mention the skills- and by extension the passives- are much stronger for duel wield.
Finally- he means the high score leaderboards for vet trials, not the pvp leaderboards. Everyone is using a staff setup, because the destro staff abilities (i.e. wall of elements, ele drain, destro ult, clench, and force pulse) are ALL relevant and powerful for sustained damage, whereas NONE of the dw skills are, all you get is a small damage buff, which helps burst in pvp. As a final note, sustain is (surprisingly) not harder with dw as a magicka build in pvp (especially on a sorc where you still have a resto bar). But the lack of a spammable (crushing shock) actually promotes better resource management.
One final thing, to suggest that 1h and shield has an advantage over staves in dps because they get an extra set is beyond me. I just thought I would point that out.2 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
I don't know why this pushed my buttons, but it did.
2h/bow is not crap in duels. In general, it is the most viable option (especially in open world, where you can't control who or how many you are fighting). Like I said when I first came in here, if anything 2h should lose the rally buff to the fighter's guild to promote weapon diversity in pvp, because dual wield is not viable in open world. Stam just needs the burst heal- not to mention the skills- and by extension the passives- are much stronger for duel wield.
Finally- he means the high score leaderboards for vet trials, not the pvp leaderboards. Everyone is using a staff setup, because the destro staff abilities (i.e. wall of elements, ele drain, destro ult, clench, and force pulse) are ALL relevant and powerful for sustained damage, whereas NONE of the dw skills are, all you get is a small damage buff, which helps burst in pvp. As a final note, sustain is (surprisingly) not harder with dw as a magicka build in pvp (especially on a sorc where you still have a resto bar). But the lack of a spammable (crushing shock) actually promotes better resource management.
One final thing, to suggest that 1h and shield has an advantage over staves in dps because they get an extra set is beyond me. I just thought I would point that out.
For me rebalance dual wield and staffs. For me its ok to reduce the skill efectivness of 2H weapons, when they are to strong. Its just a poor thing not to be possible, wear the best combination of 5 5 2 with the weapons you want. They should make a plan, when they change things.
For example: They changed froststaff to tanky, but you see most tanks in trial just tank again with 1H+shield. This is only because the froststaff just can give 1 slot for a set. They idea behind was great, spotting over HA, but in trials nearly impossible.
This kind of tanking is good for experienced guys in common vet dungeons, but nothing more.
I dont will change your mind, but you should be more sensible to our opinion, that there is a disbalance. Nobody want to be OP, but all want same possibilities for builds. If things become to strong, they need a nerf. If they are to weak, then buff them.
But at all listen to your community. Many guys here play MMORPGs or other games more then 10 years and have experience from other games. This games sometimes show us whats wrong and whats right. If people are screaming, then *** take a look why they do and think about, if you need to handle there.
Biggest mistake and that you can see here, is to reward different playstyles not in same way. If you create a good balance, you should hold it. Nobody will unlike it.
One last thing i need to speak about: Actually this game changed nearly complete in 2 patches (Morrowind and next one). *** never change a running system!DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.
You used a lot of words to say 'Because I play melee DPS and wouldn't know what to do with my life if the system were actually balanced properly'.
A staff, a greatsword and a bow occupy ...wait for it...two equipment slots. You don't get increased weapon damage on them for this loss. You do get double trait benefit, but not double enchantment and it doesn't count as two set pieces.
G'head and demonstrate why that's fair, because it looks to me like mediocre design that got shoved through and has been veered away from because now, its been live and it has become a polarized topic.
Doesn't mean it isn't mediocre design that can and should be addressed, however.
Edited by Chadak on July 14, 2017 8:52PM0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.
You used a lot of words to say 'Because I play melee DPS and wouldn't know what to do with my life if the system were actually balanced properly'.
No he said.
Staffs and 2h's are strong enough as it is, they don't need buffing because they are actually balanced right.
Magicka is strong in pve, all pve builds use staffs, they don't need a buff.
2h is by far better than dw in pvp right now
2h is also quite to close dw dps in pve.
You make 2h and staffs count as 2 and dw dies.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »Because you get one set bonus for one item. A staff is one item, so you get...wait for it...one set bonus for it. Again, that's one bonus, for one set item.
Now that the math behind it has been explained, I would also like to point out that being able to wear a monster set and use two five piece sets on the front bar is really the only benefit you get for being a melee based dps. Meanwhile, if you are ranged magicka you get more dps, and the benefit of not having to stand next to bosses and deal with additional mechanics. I honestly think this setup is fine the way it is and if you are really that unhappy about it and decide to leave please let me know if I can have your stuff.
You used a lot of words to say 'Because I play melee DPS and wouldn't know what to do with my life if the system were actually balanced properly'.
No he said.
Staffs and 2h's are strong enough as it is, they don't need buffing because they are actually balanced right.
Magicka is strong in pve, all pve builds use staffs, they don't need a buff.
2h is by far better than dw in pvp right now
2h is also quite to close dw dps in pve.
You make 2h and staffs count as 2 and dw dies.
2h is not 'by far' better than DW in pvp. My stamblade rocks DW and I roll up on 2h folks all the time. They die like anyone else, sitting there going 'wut' when they're suddenly stunned, then faceplanted, then slowed to a crawl if they're not dead yet.
2h is better if you're running around in a zerg crew though. Not 'by far', because I guarantee you that steel tornado isn't crap, but sure, splash damage off 2h executes is pretty snazzy in the zerg fights.
There is no 'by far' about it. 2h is generally preferred in pvp because why? Gap closer and brainless to use. You have to be slightly smarter than a fencepost to do great damage with 2h, whereas you have to be slightly smarter than a cat to do great damage with DW. Not a smart cat. A sort've dumb one could manage it, probably.
Usage context dictates which is better, and that varies from class to class and playstyle to playstyle. 2h's gap closer and splash damage off the execute are great. DW's everything is great. Neither weapon sucks at all, but in certain use scenerios, one might be slightly better than the other.
If your experience of one being 'by far' better than the other is that for you...I think what you're really saying is that you don't know how to play one as well as the other. They're both awesome.
Now here's the kicker - 2h isn't more awesome than DW in general. In certain use cases it can be preferable, but again, you're not going to suddenly go from sucking to winning because you switched from DW to 2h in pvp. If you somehow do, it meant you were basically trash at running DW but somehow not at 2h. That's a skill issue.
Assuming all else is equal, DW is every bit as vicious as 2h, but it gets to fill out an extra set slot.
Staves? Everyone seems to think staff is so powerful all the time in every way and that it makes total sense that staff users should be down a set slot.
How's that work out for resto staff wielding healers? Is resto staff so OP that your bowels quiver with envy, hatred and impotent rage just to exist near anyone wielding one?
Probably not. Resto staff using healers get thrown under the bus too, and I don't think anyone's trying to make the argument that destro staff is broken or underpowered.
Magicka DPS have two weapon options and one weapon line option; fire or lightning staff. They're pretty great. Again, I don't see anyone attempting to argue that they're broken or underpowered. They're not better than DW though. They're not better than S&B. They're sure the **** not better than bow.
They're not noticeably worse either. Pretty balanced, actually.
So why do 2h, bow and staff get shafted out of a set slot? Because if you think 'oh, because they're ranged', see 2h. If you think 'Oh, because their passives are better', see DW and S&B. S&B's in a class all its own. Nothing gets fancy at blocking like S&B. Not even the ridiculous and badly thought-out transmogrification of ice staff into a tanking weapon.
None of the weapon sets suck. Each and every one of them are great within their ideal use case scenerios, and with the likes of 2h, destro staff, DW and bow, those use case scenerios overlap a lot.
But one of these things is not like the other. One does not get all the available set slots. The other does.
There is not actually any good reason for this to be so. DW would not 'die' if 2h counted as two of its set pieces; there would then be parity. Actual parity.
Assuming that 2h and destro staff are somehow superior and thus somehow deserves to be inherently penalized is a pretty bogus reach, and it really doesn't have a foot to stand on.
Because I promise you, DW and bow do not suck compared to 2h and destro staff. Their use scenerios have a lot of overlap, but they each bring something different to the table that lets them shine in different situations.
The only actual explanation for two slot weapons only counting as one piece of a set is mediocre design of the system. There almost certainly isn't some high-minded explanation for why it isn't so, and if there is, it was very likely contrived after the fact in an attempt to put a favorable spin on mediocre design.
2 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well you can, you just have to pair a proc set like BSW or Lich with with another set.
Same as a 2H and bow build.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Well you can, you just have to pair a proc set like BSW or Lich with with another set.
Same as a 2H and bow build.
And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or you go to your front bar without the buff.Edited by Ranger209 on July 15, 2017 1:24AM1 -
LadyDestiny✭✭✭✭✭Agree.....they said they were "looking into it." Just like everything else....no ETA. Lol Zos0 -
Grimhallow✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
I don't know why this pushed my buttons, but it did.
2h/bow is not crap in duels. In general, it is the most viable option (especially in open world, where you can't control who or how many you are fighting). Like I said when I first came in here, if anything 2h should lose the rally buff to the fighter's guild to promote weapon diversity in pvp, because dual wield is not viable in open world. Stam just needs the burst heal- not to mention the skills- and by extension the passives- are much stronger for two handed*.
Finally- he means the high score leaderboards for vet trials, not the pvp leaderboards. Everyone is using a staff setup, because the destro staff abilities (i.e. wall of elements, ele drain, destro ult, clench, and force pulse) are ALL relevant and powerful for sustained damage, whereas NONE of the dw skills are, all you get is a small damage buff, which helps burst in pvp. As a final note, sustain is (surprisingly) not harder with dw as a magicka build in pvp (especially on a sorc where you still have a resto bar). But the lack of a spammable (crushing shock) actually promotes better resource management.
One final thing, to suggest that 1h and shield has an advantage over staves in dps because they get an extra set is beyond me. I just thought I would point that out.
0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
Really not sure if you are uninformed or intentionally obtuse at this point so let me spell it out to you again...
Re the bold - again you are wrong. dw and 1hs are NOT the only ways to get the full benefit of 552 sets when you consider thew swap-based builds which take advantage of the fact that every strong build uses both bars.
One option:
Clever alchemist build:
Put on 2pc of preferred monster set (any one often burst related but whichever)
Put on back bar a clever alchey staff and 4pc of clever alchey body.
Put on front bar any preferred set staff, 3pc set jewelry and 1 pc body of the same set and you get 5pc on your front bar.
Now you end up with the ability to get the full benefits of 5-5-2 by a rotation in which h every time you hit the back bar for buffs when potions are available you drink you potion and go to front bar for the fighting, keeping the clever alchey 5pc bonus going its full 15s out of each 45s time period.
Some other easy options replace the clever alchey with any of the sets with a 5pc that procs some effect "when using ultimate" with a rotation which gets you to the back bar to trigger the ultimate when it is ready. these often put a front bar ultimate of the type which provide a big "when slotted" bonus that you do not activate, saving the actual ulti use for the backbar and maximize the gains from the 5pc.
Finally, as you keep talking about getting top leader scores this and that speed this and that again it needs to be said that at the top end you are almost always talking builds with maelstrom weapons. builds with maelstrom weapons, master weapons or both already bypass the 2h vs dw set counts because the m or m weapons sets have their own internal accounting built in.
The view that ALL pre-maelstrom/master weapons staff using builds need to be able to use the same sets with the same counts as dw and 1hs builds because they are underperforming across the content is not supportable by the current state of play and if implemented wont significantly change their performance but would instead just reduce the sets used.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭yeah mag sorcs melt *** away real quick (the ones that know what they doing) i dont think they need a buff lol
That Mag Sorcs are really strong isnt an argument against this thread idea. When a class is stronger then other, the problem is not a doubled weaponsetslot!notimetocare wrote: »Easy answer every time this comes up: 2h is balanced that way.
When you simply look to the 2H weapons you are right, they looks balanced actually. But not when you try to get best stats.
In raids work like this: Tanks need 1 bar with 1H+shields, a froststaff bar dont work with best sets and in many raids it isnt a option..
Stamina-DDs and many Magicka-DDs using 1 bar with dual wield to hold the double 5 piece bonus and able to have a full monsterset!
Only healer just use 1 Monstersetpiece for example not to waste a second 5 piece bonus. But this is just ***. They all could wear what they want and have the full bonus!
I dont will accept all comments from this ignorant people, who say it is like it is, dont see the problem, because it doesnt matter for me or other reasons. They make me angry in real, because this comments show me, that the niveau of many people is really low! Stupid playing a game like braindead isnt a thing for a MMORPG! Like sheeps you accept all like it is.. without asking why it is and maybe it could be better
Ok so, nonsense.
It is intellectually lazy to just ascribe lack of thought to those who disagree.
It depends on your role and objective what you need much more than set count.
Burst is in high demand for PvP, less for over dps trial. So the Dw sustain dps edges out 2h for Stan dps. Meanwhile a lo of the wh advantages help in PvP where also sets like clever play in well.
And of course there are builds where one bar Dw or 1h make sense, just like how bow/Dw and 2h/bow make sense in their respective strong suits.
Arguing for all the magical builds to just be flavors of staff cuz you have some bias against folks who make staff-Dw work in some cases, well, that's fine if that's your cup of tea but generally staff users are not showing deprivations performance issues that would be solved by a bonus slot. Neither are 2h.Emma_Overload wrote: »NiclasFridholm wrote: »Stop it, if you guys dont Zos will end up nerfing DW as it will be counted as 1 piece!
Then you will hopefully agree with me/us, that there is a problem actually..This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Why cant i equip a greatsword and have it throw bolts of magic fire and rain down deadly clouds of fire from the sky?
Why cant i equip two swords and have them launch regen to allies and healing wards?
Why do any of my choices have to have consequences?
Just think real. Swords are a staminabased weapon and should push things like bleedingeffects. Staffs are magickabased. Why to hell do i push my magickaskilldamage with 2 swords as much as with a weapon, which should do that more. I know, that i got most spelldamage with dual wield and 2 swords, but why it is like that? A short staff for example from the Harry Potter Films or something like that should do that, not swords!!
An example: When i want hit my enemy hard with the hardest punch i could do, why to hell should i wear a Staff (when this one gives me the most weapondamage)?? Sense? Not really, just there isnt any..
You would wear a Greatsword or a Battleaxt in these simple example. On the other side i dont want his my Enemy with casts while wearing 2 swords!
Ok, so, the first two bolds show things not belonging in the same argument. "Real" and "magica" are not chocolate and peanut butter.
As for the italics, again, you highlight one coin in the damage cash pile. Damage done in a fight is not trending higher for dw spell guys. It might be for certain builds in certain phases for certain classes in certain circumstances, but the staves weaving plus damage bonuses (very different thing from spelldam coin) generally over the whole yield better output.
So this arguement seems to boil down to a **belief** that there should never be any point where swords should be better for mage than staves... belief not objective fact... faith not proof.
Why is the game objectively worse if swords provide more spell damage than if they did not?
Please, show your math.
Mate, really i just dont want only more damage. This argument dont works, because they could balance 2H weapons new and reduce the damage of to strong skills. We just want same possibilities to make much more different builds. This would be helpful for sustain, survivalbility ect.. For example in PvP i can wear 1 offensive 5 piece and 1 defensive 5 piece set together with a full monsterset like Staminaplayer do!
Again not wanting any consequences for your choices is something many want.
But letting everybody escape consequences of choices and equip however whatever is NOT a way to get more actual diversity in play. It just means more folks wearing the same builds.
With staff and 2h now you have to look at different sets to get rthe 5-5-2 net result. You backbeat sets like much or Warwick or clever or mania or even assassin guile where you have a cool down that lasts long enough to fit your rotations.
So, you choice leads you to look at different options than the Dw choice would.
Something apparently some feel is wrong to have in a game - choices that matter.
LOL, what a lot of nonsense. You conveniently ignore the fact that the Dual Wielder's "choice" is far superior, because he makes fewer sacrifices and can choose ANY two sets he wants, not just the ones that work well on a main bar (e.g. Spinner's) or on a back bar (e.g. Warlock)!
Ok so.. No the Dw choice is NOT far superior. Its is in some cases where the strengths of Dw matter. Sustain dps... Yep Dw/bow. But in PvP its not the most prevalent build. 2h/bow is strong there.
And you know, since obviously math is a second language for you...
Tempers to gold a 2h sword 8
Tempers to gold two dual weaon or won and shield 16.
But you say the Dw makes fewer sacrifices
Time to farm one 2h weapon x times 3 weapon types.
Time to farm two weapons for Dw x times 4 won types times two weapons*
But you say Dw makes fewer sacrifices
And finally, the number of sets you don't use is meaningless. Tomorrow they could add a million new magical sets and Dw and wh would not get weaker.
What matters is sets you DO use and the effectiveness of builds that use them.
2h and staves are not lacking in builds that work in content they are appropriate at.
So maybe title threads "staff builds are too weak" and then suggest solution of "bonus slots" and see how quickly the laughtrack starts up.
Of have you seen a massive shortage of mag/staff builds on the leaderboards?
Just lol? Whats wrong with you? First: 2H/bow combo is crap, try it in duells and lose again and again until you want a real combination, which is not just for zerging. Second: I never said, that Destro/Healingstaff is to weak, but your builds cant be as more powerful as DW/1H+Shield builds can be in reason of the 2th 5piece bonus. Actually solution for most guys is to wear vMSA staffs (when you have it in right trait) and for example the Willpower set. There is NO POSSIBILITY to reach the bonus a second 5 piece bonus would give. Now i have the conflict can waste a 2th 5piece bonus with staffs, waste a full Monstersetbonus with wearing Kena, wasting sustain and damage from attacks (sword attacks commulate just with stamina and weapondamage; Oh you didnt noticed?!) and against that Staminauser can have it all together! You dont would lose anything when magicka builds can have this too! You dont want it, because its actually much more easy for staminaplayer. 1 last example and try to break this: How is it possible that all Staminabuilds are much faster in vMSA with no death run then all magickabuilds?? Only Andy S. can do it with 1 class (magicka sorc) to beat staminaplayer and this is just because of 2th 5piece bonus and weapons who commulate with there playstyle this guys choosen before!
p.s.: Every noob can climb to leaderboard in PvP, just with playing 24/7 and zerging all time... this isnt an argument
So much wrong here...
In no particular order,
As most any experienced 2h or staff player will tell you, you can get the full benefits of the sets if you choose sets that work with a swapping build. All the advantages, none of the disads.
So this is not about whether you can get a 552 with these but can you not have to think about which sets and just use the same.
Second, your data is speed visa runs? Thought visa was done with mop and bucket? Vmsa is NOT a set test but a mechanics puzzle.
Last I checked, for trial and hm dungeons staff users were mostly top dogs. For PvP, 2h/bow still popular though 1hs builds popular too in the defense plus procs era might see chug going forward.
And it really does boil down to it is currently trade off but I get some just want it all so, keep at it, cuz maybe zoos will eventually agree that its better to get whatever you want regardless of choices.
But definitely keep up the line about how great stamina does over magical staff users in performance... That will get you far given how tough the magical folks with staves are having.
:-)
You are hard to understand.. really.
1. I know how i can get the full benefit of 5 5 2, but it only works with dual wield or 1H+shield. Both staminabased options. You remember, this was my argument to create the thread.
2. My personal vMSA scores doent matter for this thread. But i analysed the times other good guys were running. The highscores all runned from Staminaplayer. With a Magicka based dual wield version the times would maybe be similar.
3. Yeah ask them. Nearly all Magicka DD run like this 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from a set they prefer like Juljanos, 3 juwelry from a trialset, vMSA destrostaff and 2 dual wield sword fron same trialset. Only 1 other option is possible. 2 monsterset, 5 pieces from prefered set or trialset here, 3 willpower or 3 pieces of a trialset, 1 vMSA destrostaff, 1 vMSA destrostaff. You will not see another option. Good stamina DDs going nearly all just the same build with dual wield. But for Magicka-user the 2version could really be easier, when a staff could give 2setboni and you would never see again any Magicka-user with dual wield!
Really i want to duell your experienced 2H/Bow guys next time. Lets find a day
Really not sure if you are uninformed or intentionally obtuse at this point so let me spell it out to you again...
Re the bold - again you are wrong. dw and 1hs are NOT the only ways to get the full benefit of 552 sets when you consider thew swap-based builds which take advantage of the fact that every strong build uses both bars.
One option:
Clever alchemist build:
Put on 2pc of preferred monster set (any one often burst related but whichever)
Put on back bar a clever alchey staff and 4pc of clever alchey body.
Put on front bar any preferred set staff, 3pc set jewelry and 1 pc body of the same set and you get 5pc on your front bar.
Now you end up with the ability to get the full benefits of 5-5-2 by a rotation in which h every time you hit the back bar for buffs when potions are available you drink you potion and go to front bar for the fighting, keeping the clever alchey 5pc bonus going its full 15s out of each 45s time period.
Some other easy options replace the clever alchey with any of the sets with a 5pc that procs some effect "when using ultimate" with a rotation which gets you to the back bar to trigger the ultimate when it is ready. these often put a front bar ultimate of the type which provide a big "when slotted" bonus that you do not activate, saving the actual ulti use for the backbar and maximize the gains from the 5pc.
Finally, as you keep talking about getting top leader scores this and that speed this and that again it needs to be said that at the top end you are almost always talking builds with maelstrom weapons. builds with maelstrom weapons, master weapons or both already bypass the 2h vs dw set counts because the m or m weapons sets have their own internal accounting built in.
The view that ALL pre-maelstrom/master weapons staff using builds need to be able to use the same sets with the same counts as dw and 1hs builds because they are underperforming across the content is not supportable by the current state of play and if implemented wont significantly change their performance but would instead just reduce the sets used.
When i see some sets, which are not useless like Lich or clever alchemist (the active time is just 33% - WTF - You really thing this are options for ambitioned guys??!) then i will agree you anytime. But there are no options!
And again:
So please leave us alone or learn math before you try to search arguments against this!DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Entegre✭✭✭If they nerf ranged damage then they can add 2 piece bonus, right now ranged dps does compatible damage to melee. And where is the balance in here? A melee character risks themselves to do damage while a ranged one is already much further away from danger. Nerf ranged dps then add 2 piece bonus for two handed weapons.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭If they nerf ranged damage then they can add 2 piece bonus, right now ranged dps does compatible damage to melee. And where is the balance in here? A melee character risks themselves to do damage while a ranged one is already much further away from danger. Nerf ranged dps then add 2 piece bonus for two handed weapons.
I said allready it should be fair for all. They should balance the 2H weapons again, when they able to give 2 setslots. I dont want OP weapons, but i want to have same possibilitys like many other guys to choose weapons i want to play with and can making builds, which i prefer!DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
When i see some sets, which are not useless like Lich or clever alchemist (the active time is just 33% - WTF - You really thing this are options for ambitioned guys??!) then i will agree you anytime. But there are no options!
And again:
And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or you go to your front bar without the buff.
So please leave us alone or learn math before you try to search arguments against this!
My math is just fine... Clever is a burst style set designed to give you an increase for 15s that is higher than say Juianos' 5pc bonus over the similar period but its balanced out by having the longer cooldown. You dont need to learn math but get your head out of the world where only sustain DPS matters. Clever builds are not things that are "useless" for a lot of the play out there.
Also, quoting a proc chance related comment like "And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or ..." when the sets involved - Lich and Clever in your chosen example but also ones like Warlock, Witchman, Lamia in mine - is utter nonsense. The proc chance for these is guaranteed by whether by circumstances or by character action - maybe you should read those sets before deciding they are all useless since you seem to think they all have some random procs.
but, here is the rub, if your basis is again hinged not on objective fact but whatever you decide is useless to support your argument then again you have circular reasoning designed to create the conclusion not lead to it. You have a conclusion "i want this" and now any points that need to be thrown in to support that no matter how ludicrous seem good to you.
let me ask you something:
When you say this "I said allready it should be fair for all. They should balance the 2H weapons again, when they able to give 2 setslots. I dont want OP weapons, but i want to have same possibilitys like many other guys to choose weapons i want to play with and can making builds, which i prefer!"
Should at the same time they make changes so that sets like hundings add spell crit, spell dmg and max magica as well as its stamina based effects?
Should at the same time they make changes to sets like viper adding spellcrit, max mag and a shock proc?
or are you fine with having lots and lots and lots of other choices you make (magica vs stamina based, light vs medium armor, class, etc) "limit" or "strongly influence" your sets and build choices but only have weapons chosen be a "thou shalt not influence or limit my sets and build choices" divine proclamation? What makes weapon choices something that should not be influencing or impacting on your set choices?
Right now you are looking at throwing out the years of data of 11-12pc set counts and reworking 4 of the 6 weapons and likely some crafting and farming overhauls as well - all major undertakings - to get as far as i can tell all you want to gain is to be able to run the same sets on different weapon-equipped characters - IE less diversity in the sets in play.
Why would that be a good thing at all in the net scheme of things and especially if you consider it in comparison to say adding a new two-weapon magica-melee option like say "dual wands" or "dual rods" or "wand and orb" so that magicas then have 11pc options and 12pc options that return magica on hvy attacks, like stamina have now?
An option to add a new weapon - very similar to dw or 1hs - where it is magica based, melee-ranged, has two-weapons with two slots returning magica on hvy attacks seems to give you the ability to as a magica user gain the same set counts as dw and 1hs without requiring the rework of so many things?
of course, if you goal is not to keep the balance but to change the balance, i can get why you would want the option with so many overhauls.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
When i see some sets, which are not useless like Lich or clever alchemist (the active time is just 33% - WTF - You really thing this are options for ambitioned guys??!) then i will agree you anytime. But there are no options!
And again:
And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or you go to your front bar without the buff.
So please leave us alone or learn math before you try to search arguments against this!
My math is just fine... Clever is a burst style set designed to give you an increase for 15s that is higher than say Juianos' 5pc bonus over the similar period but its balanced out by having the longer cooldown. You dont need to learn math but get your head out of the world where only sustain DPS matters. Clever builds are not things that are "useless" for a lot of the play out there.
Also, quoting a proc chance related comment like "And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or ..." when the sets involved - Lich and Clever in your chosen example but also ones like Warlock, Witchman, Lamia in mine - is utter nonsense. The proc chance for these is guaranteed by whether by circumstances or by character action - maybe you should read those sets before deciding they are all useless since you seem to think they all have some random procs.
but, here is the rub, if your basis is again hinged not on objective fact but whatever you decide is useless to support your argument then again you have circular reasoning designed to create the conclusion not lead to it. You have a conclusion "i want this" and now any points that need to be thrown in to support that no matter how ludicrous seem good to you.
let me ask you something:
When you say this "I said allready it should be fair for all. They should balance the 2H weapons again, when they able to give 2 setslots. I dont want OP weapons, but i want to have same possibilitys like many other guys to choose weapons i want to play with and can making builds, which i prefer!"
Should at the same time they make changes so that sets like hundings add spell crit, spell dmg and max magica as well as its stamina based effects?
Should at the same time they make changes to sets like viper adding spellcrit, max mag and a shock proc?
or are you fine with having lots and lots and lots of other choices you make (magica vs stamina based, light vs medium armor, class, etc) "limit" or "strongly influence" your sets and build choices but only have weapons chosen be a "thou shalt not influence or limit my sets and build choices" divine proclamation? What makes weapon choices something that should not be influencing or impacting on your set choices?
Right now you are looking at throwing out the years of data of 11-12pc set counts and reworking 4 of the 6 weapons and likely some crafting and farming overhauls as well - all major undertakings - to get as far as i can tell all you want to gain is to be able to run the same sets on different weapon-equipped characters - IE less diversity in the sets in play.
Why would that be a good thing at all in the net scheme of things and especially if you consider it in comparison to say adding a new two-weapon magica-melee option like say "dual wands" or "dual rods" or "wand and orb" so that magicas then have 11pc options and 12pc options that return magica on hvy attacks, like stamina have now?
An option to add a new weapon - very similar to dw or 1hs - where it is magica based, melee-ranged, has two-weapons with two slots returning magica on hvy attacks seems to give you the ability to as a magica user gain the same set counts as dw and 1hs without requiring the rework of so many things?
of course, if you goal is not to keep the balance but to change the balance, i can get why you would want the option with so many overhauls.
Until all magicka users dont have this option, i dont think so. I would really like to have a magicka version for dual wield and totally agree it.
I dont like that we dont have a good solutiotion for 2H weapons to switch weapons since a play this game. I play DPS now more then ever and some mechanics just dont work with this!
Let me explain finally why:
When Magicka user choose and activate 1 set for another, because we arent possible to have 2 5piece sets active like i explained allready, this make us unflexible. I would agree it, when this dont stop my gameplay totally. A simple gamemechanic is animationcancelling and dont work with this. Weaponattacks can be cancelled with skills and skillanimations can only cancelled by blocking, dodging or switching weapons. Only the last one works very well, because it dont have the risk and needs ressources. Good player use skillanimation cancelling very often and switch weapons nearly every 3seconds. Weaponanimationcancelling and especially skillanimationcancelling are basics to increase your DPS. I dont able to bring my DPS on a good level, when i need to wait for a procc like you said and i need good stats on both bars. So it isnt a option and i dont would make trouble, when i could be happy with it. The only solution actually is to have 2 swords on 1 bar! And this decrease my DPS because of the lower light attacks...
A new magicka dual wield version would balance it, that Stamina and Magickabuilds have same option. We would have anymore the trouble with for example Froststafftanking. So i guess, they should go the more difficult way to give 2H weapons 2 slotplaces. They are allready experienced to destroy running systems and what do you lose with that? We all could win with it...
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
When i see some sets, which are not useless like Lich or clever alchemist (the active time is just 33% - WTF - You really thing this are options for ambitioned guys??!) then i will agree you anytime. But there are no options!
And again:
And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or you go to your front bar without the buff.
So please leave us alone or learn math before you try to search arguments against this!
My math is just fine... Clever is a burst style set designed to give you an increase for 15s that is higher than say Juianos' 5pc bonus over the similar period but its balanced out by having the longer cooldown. You dont need to learn math but get your head out of the world where only sustain DPS matters. Clever builds are not things that are "useless" for a lot of the play out there.
Also, quoting a proc chance related comment like "And when it doesn't proc right away you are stuck on you back bar until it does, or ..." when the sets involved - Lich and Clever in your chosen example but also ones like Warlock, Witchman, Lamia in mine - is utter nonsense. The proc chance for these is guaranteed by whether by circumstances or by character action - maybe you should read those sets before deciding they are all useless since you seem to think they all have some random procs.
but, here is the rub, if your basis is again hinged not on objective fact but whatever you decide is useless to support your argument then again you have circular reasoning designed to create the conclusion not lead to it. You have a conclusion "i want this" and now any points that need to be thrown in to support that no matter how ludicrous seem good to you.
let me ask you something:
When you say this "I said allready it should be fair for all. They should balance the 2H weapons again, when they able to give 2 setslots. I dont want OP weapons, but i want to have same possibilitys like many other guys to choose weapons i want to play with and can making builds, which i prefer!"
Should at the same time they make changes so that sets like hundings add spell crit, spell dmg and max magica as well as its stamina based effects?
Should at the same time they make changes to sets like viper adding spellcrit, max mag and a shock proc?
or are you fine with having lots and lots and lots of other choices you make (magica vs stamina based, light vs medium armor, class, etc) "limit" or "strongly influence" your sets and build choices but only have weapons chosen be a "thou shalt not influence or limit my sets and build choices" divine proclamation? What makes weapon choices something that should not be influencing or impacting on your set choices?
Right now you are looking at throwing out the years of data of 11-12pc set counts and reworking 4 of the 6 weapons and likely some crafting and farming overhauls as well - all major undertakings - to get as far as i can tell all you want to gain is to be able to run the same sets on different weapon-equipped characters - IE less diversity in the sets in play.
Why would that be a good thing at all in the net scheme of things and especially if you consider it in comparison to say adding a new two-weapon magica-melee option like say "dual wands" or "dual rods" or "wand and orb" so that magicas then have 11pc options and 12pc options that return magica on hvy attacks, like stamina have now?
An option to add a new weapon - very similar to dw or 1hs - where it is magica based, melee-ranged, has two-weapons with two slots returning magica on hvy attacks seems to give you the ability to as a magica user gain the same set counts as dw and 1hs without requiring the rework of so many things?
of course, if you goal is not to keep the balance but to change the balance, i can get why you would want the option with so many overhauls.
Until all magicka users dont have this option, i dont think so. I would really like to have a magicka version for dual wield and totally agree it.
I dont like that we dont have a good solutiotion for 2H weapons to switch weapons since a play this game. I play DPS now more then ever and some mechanics just dont work with this!
Let me explain finally why:
When Magicka user choose and activate 1 set for another, because we arent possible to have 2 5piece sets active like i explained allready, this make us unflexible. I would agree it, when this dont stop my gameplay totally. A simple gamemechanic is animationcancelling and dont work with this. Weaponattacks can be cancelled with skills and skillanimations can only cancelled by blocking, dodging or switching weapons. Only the last one works very well, because it dont have the risk and needs ressources. Good player use skillanimation cancelling very often and switch weapons nearly every 3seconds. Weaponanimationcancelling and especially skillanimationcancelling are basics to increase your DPS. I dont able to bring my DPS on a good level, when i need to wait for a procc like you said and i need good stats on both bars. So it isnt a option and i dont would make trouble, when i could be happy with it. The only solution actually is to have 2 swords on 1 bar! And this decrease my DPS because of the lower light attacks...
A new magicka dual wield version would balance it, that Stamina and Magickabuilds have same option. We would have anymore the trouble with for example Froststafftanking. So i guess, they should go the more difficult way to give 2H weapons 2 slotplaces. They are allready experienced to destroy running systems and what do you lose with that? We all could win with it...
you are pretending you swap bars every 3s and also at the same time bringing up difficulty in getting backbar sets to "proc" when the sets in question proc 1005 of the time when their conditions are met?
Also, block cancel does not require any resources unless you get hit during that instant. if you get hit during that instant it does its job unless you are say a shield primery defense type which i dare say most bow and 2h users are not.
but again, let me point out that while you list all these ways to raise damage done here you said you would expect rebalancing to be done so this did not raise damage and create more powerful builds - just increase your ability to wear the exact same sets regardless of weapon choice...
seems to me the goal here might be inching towards getting 2h better damage thru swapping, better damage thru sets and all with half the farming and half the golds to max quality while also getting the triple proc threat you can get with some of the 12pc combos?
but that cant be right, can it? this is about diversity and increasing the number of sets you can ignore, right?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Can't even believe I'm reading this. There are tons of combinations that won't work like you describe. What about Necropotence + Shacklebreaker + a Monster set? Which one do you backbar, Necro or Shackle? Doesn't make any sense. Amberplasm is another popular sustain set that you would never want to lose the 5 piece bonus. You even mention Seducer... why would you only want to enjoy the 8% cost reduction on one bar?
Edited by Emma_Overload on July 16, 2017 6:43PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Can't even believe I'm reading this. There are tons of combinations that won't work like you describe. What about Necropotence + Shacklebreaker + a Monster set? Which one do you backbar, Necro or Shackle? Doesn't make any sense. Amberplasm is another popular sustain set that you would never want to lose the 5 piece bonus. You even mention Seducer... why would you only want to enjoy the 8% cost reduction on one bar?
You only have the choose for 1 5piece bonus same time, when you play Destro/Restro.. Ask people which wear that, Many take amber plasm, a monsterset and then 3 Willpower with vMSA weapons to get the maximum bonus on both bars...
I created this thread. Trust me, it dont work.. i am not happy with it too..Edited by DeHei on July 16, 2017 6:47PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Can't even believe I'm reading this. There are tons of combinations that won't work like you describe. What about Necropotence + Shacklebreaker + a Monster set? Which one do you backbar, Necro or Shackle? Doesn't make any sense. Amberplasm is another popular sustain set that you would never want to lose the 5 piece bonus. You even mention Seducer... why would you only want to enjoy the 8% cost reduction on one bar?
uhhh.. cannot believe i am reading this... yes there are tons of combos that dont work like this... but there are ones which do.
there are tons of combos nobody uses too... like say hundings with mothers sorrow...
that is kind of the point, you know. Different choices result in different options foe what works and what doesn't.
How well would your necro + shackle work on a character with 64 stamina? Wait, what, not so good because the choice to spend stamina means necro shackle is not a good combo for you?
gosh golly gee batman, how in the world can a choice as fundamental as stat assignment or weapons chosen impact what set combos are good and what isn't?
So, see, right now, those folks running 11pc weapon choices may be urged to run different sets than those running 12pc options. 11pc options often include more use of surge-then-cool type sets while 12pc options tend to favor more constant effect options.
Different choices favor different options favor different results and different play.
The number of sets you choose to NOT USE is pretty much irrelevant as long as you have enough to give you options of good ones you can run.
And of course, all this set count crap goes almost completely out the window once you start looking at top end builds that use maelstrom and master weapons.
Some people like having their choices matter, some dont like it as much.
Me, i am in the former camp and hope they do not launch a wholesale rework of the weapons to make them more alike than they are now.
if there is a need for a magica melee ranged 12pc set count, add a melee range 2-weapon skill line for magica.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Can't even believe I'm reading this. There are tons of combinations that won't work like you describe. What about Necropotence + Shacklebreaker + a Monster set? Which one do you backbar, Necro or Shackle? Doesn't make any sense. Amberplasm is another popular sustain set that you would never want to lose the 5 piece bonus. You even mention Seducer... why would you only want to enjoy the 8% cost reduction on one bar?
You only have the choose for 1 5piece bonus same time, when you play Destro/Restro.. Ask people which wear that, Many take amber plasm, a monsterset and then 3 Willpower with vMSA weapons to get the maximum bonus on both bars...
I created this thread. Trust me, it dont work.. i am not happy with it too..
people who wear that have commented against this quite a few times - you can if you choose the right sets.
and yes of course some wear the 3pc jewel sets, they com in handy once the mael/master weapon sets come into the mix.
I do like the "created the thread" "trust me" thing tho.
Edited by STEVIL on July 16, 2017 6:59PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is really stupid and i cant explain how stupid it is... Why it isnt able to play with staff, give this 2H weapons items a double set bonus, that everybody is able to use 2 full 5piece sets and a complete monsterset?! Why i need to wear 2 *** swords, when i want to make a special magicka build... Its just no logic in that!
PLS really PLS fix stupid *** from game and listen to that, what player really want! Or give us other stupid *** like a magicka dual wield combo with range weapon attacks (which work with maxmagicka and spellpower)... It looks all, that you just not have a plan. How to explain this to new player... They cant understand, because i cant understand too, but i play it since beta...
Maybe not anymore soon, the frustration is high!
Damn, people are dense
3x jewelry 1x resto 1x body
4x body 1x destro
2x monster
Lich bsw pirate
Julianos seducer/lich
Literally fill in any 2 sets that you want and most will work
You just give up vma and the benefit of having a second 5
Piece on one bar.
But most times you don't need two 5x bonuses since you will want a sustain set and a damage set. Put the sustain on back bar
Close this post
Can't even believe I'm reading this. There are tons of combinations that won't work like you describe. What about Necropotence + Shacklebreaker + a Monster set? Which one do you backbar, Necro or Shackle? Doesn't make any sense. Amberplasm is another popular sustain set that you would never want to lose the 5 piece bonus. You even mention Seducer... why would you only want to enjoy the 8% cost reduction on one bar?
uhhh.. cannot believe i am reading this... yes there are tons of combos that dont work like this... but there are ones which do.
there are tons of combos nobody uses too... like say hundings with mothers sorrow...
that is kind of the point, you know. Different choices result in different options foe what works and what doesn't.
How well would your necro + shackle work on a character with 64 stamina? Wait, what, not so good because the choice to spend stamina means necro shackle is not a good combo for you?
gosh golly gee batman, how in the world can a choice as fundamental as stat assignment or weapons chosen impact what set combos are good and what isn't?
So, see, right now, those folks running 11pc weapon choices may be urged to run different sets than those running 12pc options. 11pc options often include more use of surge-then-cool type sets while 12pc options tend to favor more constant effect options.
Different choices favor different options favor different results and different play.
The number of sets you choose to NOT USE is pretty much irrelevant as long as you have enough to give you options of good ones you can run.
And of course, all this set count crap goes almost completely out the window once you start looking at top end builds that use maelstrom and master weapons.
Some people like having their choices matter, some dont like it as much.
Me, i am in the former camp and hope they do not launch a wholesale rework of the weapons to make them more alike than they are now.
if there is a need for a magica melee ranged 12pc set count, add a melee range 2-weapon skill line for magica.
Why you are so afraid they could make a rework of it? Because you maybe lose the SUPERIOR status of Staminabuilds?
Some sets are not used so much, because they are just bad. There are 50% sets, nearly nobody use, because the stats arent good. I dont need a BiS set, but i want a good combination like everybody do... For example i run with overwhelming in PvP...isnt BiS, but i really like the effect..DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A bunch of people in this thread are gonna look real silly if the change is made ^.^1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭A bunch of people in this thread are gonna look real silly if the change is made ^.^
My biggest problem, i cant understand, why they are against that. Nobody would lose anything.. so it just can be an egoistic argument... that i dont honor..DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭destrostaff (apart from frost) is perfectly good for dmg already, if they did this id hope it would just be for melee 2h and possibly bow.
PC EU
PvP only0