The social bottleneck of Raiding is insurmountable

Oompuh · May 2017

Ajaxduo wrote: »

This thread is juicy.

Perhaps make your own guild of non meta mlg players. *thumbs up*

He's going to make his own guild.. with blackjack.. and nightblade tanks.

Cadbury · May 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

This thread is juicy.

Perhaps make your own guild of non meta mlg players. *thumbs up*

He's going to make his own guild.. with blackjack.. and nightblade tanks.

Finally! All the mag sorc bow users will have a place to call home.

Ajaxduo · May 2017

Maybe I'll apply with my non-meta kena light attack bow build. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

I'm just amused that somehow my opinion on the game led to @WalksonGraves questioning whether I should procreate.

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Yeah, yeah, we've already been there. And we will take a "permablocking buff maid DK in medium armor" for our trials because we want good scores and completes over "play the game as intended" (how can this even be a thing in a "play the way you want" game? xD) It's that simple.

I think it's fairly obvious that for example Alkosh wasn't designed to be a tanking set, all the buffs are self melee dps. It just gets used because ZOS screwed up designing sets. It doesn't get used by melee dps because they got designed too weak for endgame and thus don't exist, but that's who they made it for.

Hilarious hearing "play the game you want" when it's "play the game ONE WAY or the forums will *** the bed".

Hell perma blocking only exists because ZOS is too stupid to come up with good fight mechanics so they rely on arcadey *** like "instakill unless blocked" attacks to bypass your build and don't telegraph it well enough to be blocked normally.

It's play one way because instwad of balance zos just keeps removing options until only 1 'best' option reminds.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Yeah, yeah, we've already been there. And we will take a "permablocking buff maid DK in medium armor" for our trials because we want good scores and completes over "play the game as intended" (how can this even be a thing in a "play the way you want" game? xD) It's that simple.

I think it's fairly obvious that for example Alkosh wasn't designed to be a tanking set, all the buffs are self melee dps. It just gets used because ZOS screwed up designing sets. It doesn't get used by melee dps because they got designed too weak for endgame and thus don't exist, but that's who they made it for.

Hilarious hearing "play the game you want" when it's "play the game ONE WAY or the forums will *** the bed".

Hell perma blocking only exists because ZOS is too stupid to come up with good fight mechanics so they rely on arcadey *** like "instakill unless blocked" attacks to bypass your build and don't telegraph it well enough to be blocked normally.

It's play one way because instwad of balance zos just keeps removing options until only 1 'best' option reminds.

Pretty much. So we take the path most likely to lead to success provides everyone cooperates *cough cough*
Can you really blame us?

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

Xrucible wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Well my friend then you will have to find enough players willing to spend time with you to get through the content.

You want group finder for trials right? Guess what is going to happen when 11 other members get grouped with you?

NB tank -> No group support -> insta kick and they will replace you. They wont even care how much resist you have or how much ult you generate. That is how META works. Why do they have to put up with something they perceive as a sub optimal build.

Like you mentioned before the game is ridiculously skewed at end game PvE. Just the nature of it. With Morrowind its going to get even more skewed. Resource management got completely shafted and the added block cost means DKs will be the only end game PVE tanks.

Silly tank thinks a raid is about him lol.. it's about the group as a whole. Healers running meta gear WILL keep you alive. I've personally ran with the best group ps4na. I was on my magdk and got pulled in as a last minute replacement. The tank said plainly on the mic, don't worry, just do your roll, you gor the best support group on the server, you won't die'.

I felt relieved, amd only focused on what I was susposed to be doing. I did not die that day in vmol, because my group had my 6. <-- this is why things are done a certain way. If you're not helping the group how will they trust you, instead of doing what they should be doing.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Well my friend then you will have to find enough players willing to spend time with you to get through the content.

You want group finder for trials right? Guess what is going to happen when 11 other members get grouped with you?

NB tank -> No group support -> insta kick and they will replace you. They wont even care how much resist you have or how much ult you generate. That is how META works. Why do they have to put up with something they perceive as a sub optimal build.

Like you mentioned before the game is ridiculously skewed at end game PvE. Just the nature of it. With Morrowind its going to get even more skewed. Resource management got completely shafted and the added block cost means DKs will be the only end game PVE tanks.

Silly tank thinks a raid is about him lol.. it's about the group as a whole. Healers running meta gear WILL keep you alive. I've personally ran with the best group ps4na. I was on my magdk and got pulled in as a last minute replacement. The tank said plainly on the mic, don't worry, just do your roll, you gor the best support group on the server, you won't die'.

I felt relieved, amd only focused on what I was susposed to be doing. I did not die that day in vmol, because my group had my 6. <-- this is why things are done a certain way. If you're not helping the group how will they trust you, instead of doing what they should be doing.

Its nice to see someones perspective on how well things work out when the whole group are all team players.

Syrani · May 2017

I really wish one of the tech gurus would put something like this together for ESO:

http://openraid.zergid.com/events/upcoming#all

For WoW, this is a great tool for joining a group for just about anything, but mainly raids. These things can be scheduled quite a ways in advance, and the event creator can set his or her own requirements. These events range from casual fun runs to hardcore ones. Check out the link and you will see what I mean. (And if you can make something like this for ESO, please do!!)

On top of that, WoW came out with their own in game version of this. You can find or make a group for whatever you want, and it will then be listed in its proper category in the in game interface.

idk · May 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Op his entitled to his opinions on what's BiS for tank

BiS is not an opinion. It's a fact.

That's not how opinions work.
Op believes BiS for a tank is different to what you believe.
(Even if wrong it's still BiS to him).

True. OP is correct that what he wants to wear is BiS for him. However, he is also wanting to tank raids for others and what he wears will not fly with any decent moderate raiding group with a reasonably knowledgeable raid leader. His argumentative ways about it may be a reason why he does not get opportunities to tank for groups, which people on his server have specifically stated they try to make sure a new prospective member is not him based on his posts in here.

We all can play the game as we want. But when we enter someone's raid then we play it the way they want. That is really the point of much of the feedback that has been provided and OP continues to reject yet wonders why he does not get to tank raids much.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Op his entitled to his opinions on what's BiS for tank

BiS is not an opinion. It's a fact.

That's not how opinions work.
Op believes BiS for a tank is different to what you believe.
(Even if wrong it's still BiS to him).

True. OP is correct that what he wants to wear is BiS for him. However, he is also wanting to tank raids for others and what he wears will not fly with any decent moderate raiding group with a reasonably knowledgeable raid leader. His argumentative ways about it may be a reason why he does not get opportunities to tank for groups, which people on his server have specifically stated they try to make sure a new prospective member is not him based on his posts in here.

We all can play the game as we want. But when we enter someone's raid then we play it the way they want. That is really the point of much of the feedback that has been provided and OP continues to reject yet wonders why he does not get to tank raids much.

Pretty much sums up this entire thread.

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Op his entitled to his opinions on what's BiS for tank

BiS is not an opinion. It's a fact.

That's not how opinions work.
Op believes BiS for a tank is different to what you believe.
(Even if wrong it's still BiS to him).

True. OP is correct that what he wants to wear is BiS for him. However, he is also wanting to tank raids for others and what he wears will not fly with any decent moderate raiding group with a reasonably knowledgeable raid leader. His argumentative ways about it may be a reason why he does not get opportunities to tank for groups, which people on his server have specifically stated they try to make sure a new prospective member is not him based on his posts in here.

We all can play the game as we want. But when we enter someone's raid then we play it the way they want. That is really the point of much of the feedback that has been provided and OP continues to reject yet wonders why he does not get to tank raids much.

Yup. Outside of the raid op can tank with ice staff and bow or whatever. But if raiding you have to remember it's not about you anymore and play the content for what it is, not what you pretend it to be. 12 people doing their own thing is what makes casuals keep qq'ing about 'elitests' and ***.

Here's an example: i want caffeine in the morning, my choices are coffee, koolaid, or a monster. What beverage did I not choose?

victoriana-blue · May 2017

Huh. This thread (specifically OP) explains some of the more.. "skeptical" comments I sometimes get when I'm pugging with my nb tank.

(And to anyone lurking who wants to run a nb tank, it's a lot of fun but you need to be willing to communicate. It's not much good to use refreshing path if the dps avoid it, or to *** off your healer by not synergizing shards.

)

rustic_potato · May 2017

I have my popcorn ready for MOAR drama.

rustic_potato · May 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Well my friend then you will have to find enough players willing to spend time with you to get through the content.

You want group finder for trials right? Guess what is going to happen when 11 other members get grouped with you?

NB tank -> No group support -> insta kick and they will replace you. They wont even care how much resist you have or how much ult you generate. That is how META works. Why do they have to put up with something they perceive as a sub optimal build.

Like you mentioned before the game is ridiculously skewed at end game PvE. Just the nature of it. With Morrowind its going to get even more skewed. Resource management got completely shafted and the added block cost means DKs will be the only end game PVE tanks.

Silly tank thinks a raid is about him lol.. it's about the group as a whole. Healers running meta gear WILL keep you alive. I've personally ran with the best group ps4na. I was on my magdk and got pulled in as a last minute replacement. The tank said plainly on the mic, don't worry, just do your roll, you gor the best support group on the server, you won't die'.

I felt relieved, amd only focused on what I was susposed to be doing. I did not die that day in vmol, because my group had my 6. <-- this is why things are done a certain way. If you're not helping the group how will they trust you, instead of doing what they should be doing.

My team does weird stuff. We have completed vMoL with all classes tanking and healing just for the lols. Bringing a class like NB for tanking endgame content for fun/ troll runs are perfectly fine. Even then the other tank would probably be the DK. A tank looking to break into end game with a suboptimal class is just hilarious to watch.

Tremors · May 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

LTB video of walksongraves tanking 6 axes - 4m gold

Please tell me your group doesn't get 6 axes still...

Tremors · May 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

I mean this is kind of sad man, because I main an off tank setup. How it generally works as a support role is, once you achieve your MINIMUM survivability to make YOUR job difficult, you move to making everyone else's job/role easier and more efficient. So stacking more stamina instead of health means my vigors do more for the group, which tops up heals and also makes the healers job easier. If I have full magic and full stam, well then I need to spam igneous to mitigate 6 allies as much as possible until I'm out, so they can shield less and dmg more.

I used to main a magicka sorc tank since Xbox launch and I argued black and blue that he was helping the group, and he was..but my DK is better and I'm in an amazing trials group now because of this decision.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

I mean this is kind of sad man, because I main an off tank setup. How it generally works as a support role is, once you achieve your MINIMUM survivability to make YOUR job difficult, you move to making everyone else's job/role easier and more efficient. So stacking more stamina instead of health means my vigors do more for the group, which tops up heals and also makes the healers job easier. If I have full magic and full stam, well then I need to spam igneous to mitigate 6 allies as much as possible until I'm out, so they can shield less and dmg more.

I used to main a magicka sorc tank since Xbox launch and I argued black and blue that he was helping the group, and he was..but my DK is better and I'm in an amazing trials group now because of this decision.

Can confirm, I heal for him. Thats actually him offtanking (I believe with Lord Warden set) in the videos wayyyyy back on page 2.
While his sorc tank certainly made Vmol interesting...it didnt mean it made it efficient.

pattyLtd · May 2017

If you really want to do veteran trials and insist on being the tank then you have to at least for starters meet their requirements otherwise they simply dont want to bother.

I am sure that after playing with them for a while they dont mind trying a few runs with your setup.
You are very combative and i think that could probably prove bigger problems then the set you are wearing.

Personofsecrets · May 2017

rustic_potato wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

I main a tank. I had the same issue, teams already have tanks. I joined my team as a DPS and then eventually built enough of a reputation in the team as a capable player and rotated my tank into raids.

Instant gratification is what you are looking for. Stop whining on the forums and work for it. ESO is an MMO and is meant to be progressive. Earn it.

Why would you tell someone that has been working toward something since xbox launch that they are looking for instant gratification?

@Personofsecrets Lol he wants to bring a useless class in a competitive environment. If he wanted to truly tank he would have rolled a DK and worked on it. With Morrowind the difference in tanking between DK and other classes is going to become wider. He is just a whiner who refuses to adapt as the game needs him to. Kinda reminds me of you!

You and people like you are the reason that games become worse over time. I look forward to game changes that you end up hating.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be fair, there have been changes in each PTS patch, but they aren't the changes you're looking for (sorry, had to get a #MayTheFourth joke in today somewhere). At the risk of regurgitating the same thing we've said before, we do care about your feedback, but keep in mind there's feedback coming from many different sources, some of which everyone here doesn't see (like in-game feedback, for example). Also, we need to take a look at what's best for the entire game and for its future. Your feedback isn't useless - we do read, and we do take everything into consideration.

@ZOS_GinaBruno There's been a lot of angst RE: the state of DK, specifically mDK. Last year, when there were similar concerns about the state of Stamina Sorcerer Wrobel did like a mini QA to provide the players with an idea of where he saw the class headed. Any chance we could get something similar on DK? I think some of our stress could be assuaged if we could at least see the direction Development has for this class.

Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

@WalksonGraves
Confirmed by Zenimax. DKs are supposed to be tanks.

Horowonnoe · May 2017

Perfect thread full of lols. Lets keep it going.

Artis · May 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I'll stick with 90%+ damage reduction over being a buff maid any day. You guys have never tried my build, I've played a dk in ebon/tavas or whatever you think the meta of the day is and ultimately I come back to the same set up. So yell all you want it's from a place of total ignorance. I have more damage mitigation than you do with an off tank guarding you.

I play the game as intended, heavy attacks for resources, only blocking heavy attacks and maintain total aggro control and mobility. The dk in medium with dps buff sets permablocking makes me sick, it's a testament to the failure of the game design. I won't play like that because it's embarrassing, you should be ashamed that this is the only way you can play your role. Hopefully morrowind fixes some of this trash gameplay that has taken root.

Your mindset is wrong for trials or any group play, that's why no one wants you. You can call it buff maid all you want, but the truth is - that way you are benefiting the group much more. It's not about just you surviving and overinvesting into survival. You need to have just enough to survive and the rest should help the group. It's about team play and group synergy.

In the end, a group with a meta tank will be stronger than a group with a tank like you. That's all. And I'm not even talking about a class. You can make a NB work,too. Just no reason to use pirate skeleton.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

This is all hilariously moot since vmol has been broken on console for months now.

@TARAFRAKA

You wouldn't know bis from pos.
30% dr and the debuff can be cleansed, if you don't have the capacity to see the value in that then I strongly suggest you never procreate. If you had a real build 15% less healing wouldn't break you.

See? That's a clear example. Who cares about your 30% damage reduction JUST to yourself, if you can perfectly survive everything without it AND give a group 3875 spell resistance for melee to be more tanky on rakkhat or generate even more ult to use warhorn faster so your entire group has 10% more hp magicka and stamina and Major Force! That is SO MUCH better than 30% damage reduction to A TANK who is tanky ALREADY and has healers in a group to help him. Heck even that set that spawns a spider restoring resources to everyone is better.

really. Don't you see it?

And notice, no one is saying the set is useless. It's just pretty far from the best for group content.

idk · May 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Op his entitled to his opinions on what's BiS for tank

BiS is not an opinion. It's a fact.

That's not how opinions work.
Op believes BiS for a tank is different to what you believe.
(Even if wrong it's still BiS to him).

True. OP is correct that what he wants to wear is BiS for him. However, he is also wanting to tank raids for others and what he wears will not fly with any decent moderate raiding group with a reasonably knowledgeable raid leader. His argumentative ways about it may be a reason why he does not get opportunities to tank for groups, which people on his server have specifically stated they try to make sure a new prospective member is not him based on his posts in here.

We all can play the game as we want. But when we enter someone's raid then we play it the way they want. That is really the point of much of the feedback that has been provided and OP continues to reject yet wonders why he does not get to tank raids much.

Yup. Outside of the raid op can tank with ice staff and bow or whatever. But if raiding you have to remember it's not about you anymore and play the content for what it is, not what you pretend it to be. 12 people doing their own thing is what makes casuals keep qq'ing about 'elitests' and ***.

Here's an example: i want caffeine in the morning, my choices are coffee, koolaid, or a monster. What beverage did I not choose?

I got distracted by kookaid and wanted to know what else was in it?

pattyLtd wrote: »

If you really want to do veteran trials and insist on being the tank then you have to at least for starters meet their requirements otherwise they simply dont want to bother.

I am sure that after playing with them for a while they dont mind trying a few runs with your setup.
You are very combative and i think that could probably prove bigger problems then the set you are wearing.

@WalksonGraves This is what I have been saying. You created this thread because you have not had the opportunity to tank in raids much yet you argue with those that actually raid which is not going to provide you with any opportunities.

As I mentioned at least twice, if you really want to tank raids, look for a guild or two and be very open to changing your build completely. There are skills and gear that are wanted in many raids and the raid leader is the one who decides.

It does not matter what role someone is in, if the raid leader wants certain sets he will work to ensure they are used in the group. If people in roles that normally wear those sets do not want to wear them then the raid leader will end up finding people who do.

Oh, BTW, the raid leaders do not get paid and they have the responsibility to work to make sure the entire group does as well as possible. They generally do not want to deal with arguments. It is not a power trip for them.

It comes down to your choice, being a team player or not. But it is your choice in the end.

Dantaria · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

As I mentioned at least twice, if you really want to tank raids, look for a guild or two and be very open to changing your build completely. There are skills and gear that are wanted in many raids and the raid leader is the one who decides.

It does not matter what role someone is in, if the raid leader wants certain sets he will work to ensure they are used in the group. If people in roles that normally wear those sets do not want to wear them then the raid leader will end up finding people who do.

Oh, BTW, the raid leaders do not get paid and they have the responsibility to work to make sure the entire group does as well as possible. They generally do not want to deal with arguments. It is not a power trip for them.

Well, to be fair, it isn't that much about raid leaders. I mean, it is, but "raid leader wants" is the consequence of reality, not just "raid leader wants".

Raid leader wants Ebon and Alcosh simply because it is currently the best group setup. This is what OP fails to realize. That meta exists for a reason - reason being cold hard numbers - rather than someone's desire to spite him.

He fails to realize that noone bloody cares about his mitigation. This isn't WoW, tank is ESO is a supportive role, whose responsibility is to stack mobs, debuff boss and buff group as much as it is possible.

If you wear Ebon + Alcosh, you will probably die on Warrior in vHR with his several-strikes-attack. But guess what? Nobody cares. Because in the end it is, in a whole, much more beneficial, if off-tank (or healer with protection rune and shield) throws Guard on the main tank. This one hindrance, this one instance doesn't matter because for the duration of the whole trial main tank supports the group. And there are strategies to deal with this hindrance.

Yet again, listen carefully, @WalksonGraves. Nobody cares that you can survive through everything and rez the whole group. This isn't WoW. This is ESO. Support your group.

TARAFRAKA · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

As I mentioned at least twice, if you really want to tank raids, look for a guild or two and be very open to changing your build completely. There are skills and gear that are wanted in many raids and the raid leader is the one who decides.

It does not matter what role someone is in, if the raid leader wants certain sets he will work to ensure they are used in the group. If people in roles that normally wear those sets do not want to wear them then the raid leader will end up finding people who do.

Oh, BTW, the raid leaders do not get paid and they have the responsibility to work to make sure the entire group does as well as possible. They generally do not want to deal with arguments. It is not a power trip for them.

Well, to be fair, it isn't that much about raid leaders. I mean, it is, but "raid leader wants" is the consequence of reality, not just "raid leader wants".

Raid leader wants Ebon and Alcosh simply because it is currently the best group setup. This is what OP fails to realize. That meta exists for a reason - reason being cold hard numbers - rather than someone's desire to spite him.

He fails to realize that noone bloody cares about his mitigation. This isn't WoW, tank is ESO is a supportive role, whose responsibility is to stack mobs, debuff boss and buff group as much as it is possible.

If you wear Ebon + Alcosh, you will probably die on Warrior in vHR with his several-strikes-attack. But guess what? Nobody cares. Because in the end it is, in a whole, much more beneficial, if off-tank (or healer with protection rune and shield) throws Guard on the main tank. This one hindrance, this one instance doesn't matter because for the duration of the whole trial main tank supports the group. And there are strategies to deal with this hindrance.

Yet again, listen carefully, @WalksonGraves. Nobody cares that you can survive through everything and rez the whole group. This isn't WoW. This is ESO. Support your group.

If he would run a build focused on supporting the team he wouldnt end up being the only one alive rezzing.
That 1k hp from ebon for the team? Thats how we make it to the Serpent with 24 vitality because no one is oneshot, theyre just sent to 5% health and recieve a heal instead of dying.
The damage in hardmodes is incredibly high and one shots are the norm, and forcing dps to wear health enchants or health attributes only make the dps slower which just increases the risk of death.
Especially considering all of the enrage mechanics EVERY single trial has.
Then they can focus on their job which is damage as high as possible without fear of instant kill mechanics one shotting them.

Oompuh · May 2017

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

LTB video of walksongraves tanking 6 axes - 4m gold

Please tell me your group doesn't get 6 axes still...

Nope, with Uprising it was 4 axes barely. Haven't run with 12 deep yet. I just want to see him tank 6 axes lol

idk · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

As I mentioned at least twice, if you really want to tank raids, look for a guild or two and be very open to changing your build completely. There are skills and gear that are wanted in many raids and the raid leader is the one who decides.

It does not matter what role someone is in, if the raid leader wants certain sets he will work to ensure they are used in the group. If people in roles that normally wear those sets do not want to wear them then the raid leader will end up finding people who do.

Oh, BTW, the raid leaders do not get paid and they have the responsibility to work to make sure the entire group does as well as possible. They generally do not want to deal with arguments. It is not a power trip for them.

Well, to be fair, it isn't that much about raid leaders. I mean, it is, but "raid leader wants" is the consequence of reality, not just "raid leader wants".

Raid leader wants Ebon and Alcosh simply because it is currently the best group setup. This is what OP fails to realize. That meta exists for a reason - reason being cold hard numbers - rather than someone's desire to spite him.

He fails to realize that noone bloody cares about his mitigation. This isn't WoW, tank is ESO is a supportive role, whose responsibility is to stack mobs, debuff boss and buff group as much as it is possible.

If you wear Ebon + Alcosh, you will probably die on Warrior in vHR with his several-strikes-attack. But guess what? Nobody cares. Because in the end it is, in a whole, much more beneficial, if off-tank (or healer with protection rune and shield) throws Guard on the main tank. This one hindrance, this one instance doesn't matter because for the duration of the whole trial main tank supports the group. And there are strategies to deal with this hindrance.

Yet again, listen carefully, @WalksonGraves. Nobody cares that you can survive through everything and rez the whole group. This isn't WoW. This is ESO. Support your group.

I think it is safe to assume that my statements were in the context of a raid lead with reasonably, even if limited, knowledge. Most raid groups, regardless of how moderate they may be, get information from avid raid groups. There is a definite trickle down in any MMO like this.

I know tanks that have done fine against the Warrior in Ebon and Alkosh. Good skill and good healers probably make the difference. I have also seen an OT in vHRC once and it was the first time I saw it on HM since it was upgraded. The OT is not even needed in HM, but it was something they were trying. But this is not really relevant to the convo.

Rarely do I see a raid group in any trial without Ebon.

Dantaria · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I know tanks that have done fine against the Warrior in Ebon and Alkosh. Good skill and good healers probably make the difference. I have also seen an OT in vHRC once and it was the first time I saw it on HM since it was upgraded. The OT is not even needed in HM, but it was something they were trying. But this is not really relevant to the convo.

It isn't, but it's interesting still

We're not elite group, we're just running trials for the fun of it (and only currently progressing through vMoL

).

We got hiccups on Warrior, where our tank just got oneshotted, though he dodged on time and was constantly healed. Nobody really cared much. There are ways to deal with it

Though I do wonder what the heck is wrong. Sometimes our poor tank dodges and lives. Sometimes - dodges and dies o_O

But no Alkosh and Ebon? Eeeeeerm... Things just got harder for the group... Weeeeell... I guess you can be proud that you didn't die... But we're not that grateful

IronCrystal · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I know tanks that have done fine against the Warrior in Ebon and Alkosh. Good skill and good healers probably make the difference. I have also seen an OT in vHRC once and it was the first time I saw it on HM since it was upgraded. The OT is not even needed in HM, but it was something they were trying. But this is not really relevant to the convo.

It isn't, but it's interesting still

We're not elite group, we're just running trials for the fun of it (and only currently progressing through vMoL ).

We got hiccups on Warrior, where our tank just got oneshotted, though he dodged on time and was constantly healed. Nobody really cared much. There are ways to deal with it Though I do wonder what the heck is wrong. Sometimes our poor tank dodges and lives. Sometimes - dodges and dies o_O

But no Alkosh and Ebon? Eeeeeerm... Things just got harder for the group... Weeeeell... I guess you can be proud that you didn't die... But we're not that grateful

I wouldn't recommend on the main tank depending on dodge rolling around to avoid the channeled swipes of the final boss.

You have a better chance of survival if the tank just blocks through it and the healers heal through it (gotta make sure the healers are on top of healing).