The social bottleneck of Raiding is insurmountable

Feanor

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I've been playing eso since launch on xbox and am stuck at raid content. Every time I've actually done a raid it's went well but I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been able to try. Here's why:

Raid groups don't need tons of tanks. You essentially have to start your own guild and recruit everyone if that is your role.

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

This requires as much time and effort as running a small business with an unpaid staff that has to be constantly interacted with or they wander off. I don't play video games to be a social butterfly. Talking to random people on xbox is generally abhorrent.

This is a game, nothing should be this much work. Fix the damn lfg and add raids to it. If I can pug Zul'Grurub I can pug anything eso can throw at me.

And for what? Some ugly blue lightning skin? Some tanking set no one uses?
There isn't even a reward to justify the effort other than waving your e peen around on the leader boards.

Sounds like the story of the wolf and the sour berries. Naaaah, I wouldn't want to tank anyway, rewards are so trashy. And those people I have to put up with! Disgusting.

Reading just the OP I can very well believe everything I have read in that thread after the OP...

Vaoh

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Vaoh

Also ZOS could fix this issue and have a significantly larger endgame PvE community if they:

1. Introduce an Undaunted dungeon tutorial to teach players early on the purpose and general tactics of the three roles - healer, tank, damage dealer

2. Care for their pinnacle of endgame PvE (Vet trials) when they stop working. The unbelievable amount of crashes and performance issues in vMoL and vHRC on console is astounding. I heard once that instead of having 3-6 DCs (usual amount) on the add pull outside Zhaj'hassa's room, an entire raid group crashed on PS4.

RoamingRiverElk

The trials also need to be part of the economy (both veteran AND normal versions), that creates a lot of traffic to the trials. But not the ONLY part of the economy either.

Wifeaggro13

It's not insurmountable. It's just the community has abandoned it. It gets very little attention, their was no traditional tiering in the four man's to prepare players for the curve. One of the biggest problems is the game was designed around dps and not true group dynamics or class specific encounters. CC , TRUE utility are really not any needed more then one tank and one heal are a waste of dps It became individual performance dynamics in a 12 man setting. Early eso the end game community was thriving. The end game community left is a reclusive disenfranchised player that does not want to deal teaching the 15 iteration of a churn populations the end game once again only to be ignored by devs

kongkim

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I've been playing eso since launch on xbox and am stuck at raid content. Every time I've actually done a raid it's went well but I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been able to try. Here's why:

Raid groups don't need tons of tanks. You essentially have to start your own guild and recruit everyone if that is your role.

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

This requires as much time and effort as running a small business with an unpaid staff that has to be constantly interacted with or they wander off. I don't play video games to be a social butterfly. Talking to random people on xbox is generally abhorrent.

This is a game, nothing should be this much work. Fix the damn lfg and add raids to it. If I can pug Zul'Grurub I can pug anything eso can throw at me.

And for what? Some ugly blue lightning skin? Some tanking set no one uses?
There isn't even a reward to justify the effort other than waving your e peen around on the leader boards.

Im all with you here. The only reason i don't do trials is that its not in the group finder. I don't what to sit and spam the chat.

kylewwefan

I tried for half hour last night to put a VHRC group together and most I could get was 6 players at one time. I gave up.
Wish there were some other options for endgame raiding.

I have tried tanking with my NightBlade for a good while.....for dungeons and normal trials it works great. I've not had good results in Vet trials though.

You owe it to yourself to at least make a DK tank so you can see @WalksonGraves It's just easier. Like a lot easier to tank with a DK.

DjMuscleboy02

Vaoh wrote: »

Also ZOS could fix this issue and have a significantly larger endgame PvE community if they:

1. Introduce an Undaunted dungeon tutorial to teach players early on the purpose and general tactics of the three roles - healer, tank, damage dealer

My little off topic rant about this:

This. It'd be cool to have something maybe when you hit level 10 where you are able to work with a team of undaunted NPC's and go through a dungeon as your preferred role as they give you tips and advice on what different roles do. Possibly offer suggestions on skills you should aim towards, give you a weapon suiting your selected role at the beginning of the dungeon, talk about buffs and debuffs or dots and how they can be used to tick damage while you use other abilities, etc.

There's nothing to teach new players that this isn't a game like Skyrim. Sure you can get through the most dumbed down content of any game I've ever seen by just light attacking with a bow, but the second you step into any group content you're basically useless. Adding a simple tutorial that explains how max stats affect your damage output, so there's no reason to split attribute points evenly, etc would be a game changer honestly. The fact that there is almost no way to heal yourself as a stamina build until like level 20+ (assuming you only run 2h abilities to get rally asap) unless you roll a templar leads people to run crazy *** to stay alive. And that honestly goes for any class, not just stam builds. If you want to heal yourself before level 20 you're basically forced to go templar or use a resto staff (maybe a magdk's burning embers.) And it leads to these light attacking bow/resto staff dungeon queue horror stories.

When I first started this game, I was lucky enough to have played mmos before and had done my research and watched videos so I had a decent idea of how to stack dots and have a spammable and somewhat of a rotation. I also got even more lucky and stumbled on a really good player who literally spent hours into the early morning teaching me animation cancelling, getting me gear and showing me what I should work towards, and even taking me through DSA by himself. My point is, the tutorial is this game is *** poor and is basically just another quest that gives you next to no relevant information on how to play the game. It's very difficult to progress towards "end game" without doing your own research, watching videos, or having friends already involved. And clearly, that isn't enough. The current state of trials on console is sickening. The End game community is suffering, especially on console. I've seen multiple guilds close with several more on the brink of death. I can count the number of guilds capable of putting up decent scores on one hand (on Xbox) and the number is getting lower and lower. I don't even want to think about what will happen if Halls of Fabrication is broken upon release.

Anyway back on topic...The PvE community needs new blood, OP, and there would be plenty of guilds more than happy to take new tanks. You don't know mechanics? That can be taught. You don't have BiS gear? That can be obtained. You don't have experience? That can be earned. But you, OP, you have something different altogether. And that's a bad attitude, there's nothing we can do about that. Like I said in my prior post. "Social bottlenecking" isn't what's holding you back from doing trials, it's yourself. And honestly that's not such a bad thing, why? Because you can change your approach and easily start getting into runs. You may not get to run with several guilds that may have seen your posts on forums, but I do wish you the best of luck in running with other guilds on Xbox.

WalksonGraves

Vaoh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives.

That being said once morrowind hits they are gutting leeching strikes and I am losing the core of my sustain, hence me not suggesting it to new players. I'm probably going to have to go staff tank and try to make that work or go healer.

Vaoh

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives. That being said once morrowind hits they are gutting leeching strikes and I am losing the core of my sustain, hence me not suggesting it to new players.

DKs.... what? Don't troll me -_-

vMoL can be completed by 12 Nightlades. It's just not even remotely close to optimal. You should use what's best or at least accepted as best if you aren't running with ppl familiar with you rather than purposely gimping yourself.

Are you running Lord Warden, Blood Spawn, Troll King, Ebon Armory, Powerful Assault, or Alkosh. These are sets you gotta use to buff your group, separating typical tanks from great tanks.

rotaugen454

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives.

That being said once morrowind hits they are gutting leeching strikes and I am losing the core of my sustain, hence me not suggesting it to new players. I'm probably going to have to go staff tank and try to make that work or go healer.

Staff tank...that speaks volumes.

WalksonGraves

rotaugen454 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives.

That being said once morrowind hits they are gutting leeching strikes and I am losing the core of my sustain, hence me not suggesting it to new players. I'm probably going to have to go staff tank and try to make that work or go healer.

Staff tank...that speaks volumes.

Yeah because morrowind isn't going to screw up everything for everyone and no attempt should be made to adapt . You really think they added that mechanic for lulz?

Sallington

Whenever someone complains about trying to get 12 people together for a "raid", I have to laugh. Comparing getting a group together for ESO trials to something like 40-man Molten Core used to be back in the day... That's like comparing Doshia at launch to her now.

rotaugen454

WalksonGraves wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

@WalksonGraves ^^ I read this comment and I'm not sure I can really support you now

The reason it is so absurdly difficult to get into a capable raid team has to do with all the reasons you mentioned - strong gear requirement, high skill level and game knowledge, scheduled times that work for everyone, etc.

However, you must also be good at your role or you cannot make the complaint that no one will take you. There is only a small minority of "good" raid players amongst the vast majority of the playerbase that are not. If you want to join them, you have to not only be great, but use what works best.

• As a DPS, you are essentially a Magicka Sorc, although Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars are accepted as well. Use 2x Ilambris/Grothdarr, 5x Necropotence/BSW, 4x-5x Moondancer or 4x IA, 1x vMA Inferno staff
• As a Healer, you are a Magicka Templar. Use Worm Cult, SPC, Mending, Twilight, etc.
• As a tank, you are a Dragonknight. Use Ebon Armory, Alkosh, Powerful Assault, etc.

It is simple. You have to outfit yourself with an optimal setup as much as you can before going into these groups and trying to learn the strats to complete this content. Sure you like being a Nightblade, but DKs are naturally outfitted better for tanking Vet trial content than NBs which becomes even more true when BiS gear is equipped.

Unless you're one of the best tanks on the server, why should a good team take you over the equally worthy DK, who chooses the best tanking class and won't feel they need to give attitude to people when questioned about class choice/role viability?

For Morrowind.... I'll note one thing you might want to remember, which is that the meta will be more solidified than ever (Heavy Attack builds). Players not in the 0.1% will struggle far more than those who are.


EDIT: Just randomly found this comment you posted today:

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Nb has become furnishings finding class

Here you yourself say your class sucks. Why argue with @Oompuh that your tank is better than any DK or at least equally as strong then..... -_- smh

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives.

That being said once morrowind hits they are gutting leeching strikes and I am losing the core of my sustain, hence me not suggesting it to new players. I'm probably going to have to go staff tank and try to make that work or go healer.

Staff tank...that speaks volumes.

Yeah because morrowind isn't going to screw up everything for everyone and no attempt should be made to adapt . You really think they added that mechanic for lulz?

Have you actually tried staff tanking on PTS or even live? They added the mechanic but it is horrible. Way too slow to keep a group of spawning boss adds off your group. Somehow I knew you would argue it was viable.

Kodrac

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

rotaugen454

Kodrac wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

https://youtu.be/AQf-zYn5TJE

F7sus4

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Having one possible group composition for vmol means either the devs have failed to design the game or the players have no imagination, either way it's not good. I'm fully confident my build outperforms dk tanks, I have a dk and they are pretty poorly designed skill wise and have worse passives.

Now I'm not sure you're just trolling or being blatantly ignorant anymore. Either way this makes my eyes bleed.

WalksonGraves

Kodrac wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

Haha oh man cry me a river, I don't quarrel with anyone I discuss game mechanics. If anything it's toxic dk tanks who think vmol is the only content and their build is the only way. I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other. It's nice that you think you are right, that doesn't make it the one and only truth.

WalksonGraves

Kodrac wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

Haha oh man cry me a river, I don't quarrel with anyone I discuss game mechanics. If anything it's toxic dk tanks who think vmol is the only content and their build is the only way. I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other. It's nice that you think you are right, that doesn't make it the one and only truth.

F7sus4

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other.

Actually what streamers do is copying builds that top-tier raiders are playing. Not vice versa. You couldn't be more wrong.

WalksonGraves

F7sus4 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other.

Actually what streamers do is copying builds that top-tier raiders are playing. Not vice versa. You couldn't be more wrong.

Yeah because everyone is trying to top the leaderboards by playing someone else's build.

F7sus4

WalksonGraves wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other.

Actually what streamers do is copying builds that top-tier raiders are playing. Not vice versa. You couldn't be more wrong.

Yeah because everyone is trying to top the leaderboards by playing someone else's build.

Or rather the build they created and that later became recognizeable archetype by simply being survivable and providing the most group utility at the same time. You don't really seem to understand how meta forms and why does it exist.

Cpt_Teemo

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

https://youtu.be/AQf-zYn5TJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LitDGyxFh4

Kodrac

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I don't remember insignificant people let alone care about their opinions.

This is why you are remembered on the forums. No one needs to go through your post history because it's already very memorable. Anyone that comes across you has been insulted, taunted, berated, shamed, etc. And it's not just the "elitist" end-game community taht you quarrel with, it's the entire community, myself included. No matter what it's about. You can't take advise. You can't accept opinions and playstyles that aren't your own. Your toxicity and passive-aggressiveness has given you a reputation on these forums. I don't say any of this to troll. You need to look in the mirror and take personal responsibility for the things you say and do.

Haha oh man cry me a river, I don't quarrel with anyone I discuss game mechanics. If anything it's toxic dk tanks who think vmol is the only content and their build is the only way. I change my tune when people come up with convincing arguments, you just don't offer any other than "this is how streamers do it" and often contradict each other. It's nice that you think you are right, that doesn't make it the one and only truth.

/facepalm

There is no talking sense with you. You just don't get it. But do continue on with your passive-aggressive me-against-the-world attitude and continue to keep wondering why no one will take you.

F7sus4

Kodrac wrote: »

There is no talking sense with you. You just don't get it. But do continue on with your passive-aggressive me-against-the-world attitude and continue to keep wondering why no one will take you.

Only to complain that there's "social bottleneck of raiding" while being the bottleneck himself. Spoda v2.0.

Woeler

Anybody got popcorn for sale?

idk

WalksonGraves wrote: »

You guys really went digging through my posts like a bunch of psychos. Gl trying to ruin my eso experience ZOS is way ahead of you

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

^^^^ exactly and a tank being asked to raid should expect the raid leader to inquire about what they are wearing, more so if they will have them tank regularly.

Further, based on the OP, a tank with limited experience should be open to information on how to tank a fight. Even more so if the tank has only seen it in normal since vet is very different.

Based on the posts OP has made in other threads he/she an expect to be putting together more gear sets which the post quoted above indicates and explains.

But more importantly, how has this thread stayed alive this long.

Honestly I left all day and came back to 30 replies. People sure can't handle other opinions on a forum.

I expect your a good guy irl. I'd suggest you look for a couple casual to moderate raiding guilds.

In there I'd suggest you also setup a character for doing dps as that's where most start out and a tank can still learn much about the fights while in a different role. Especially seeing how the tank holds the boss and what call ours he/she makes.

Listen to what the raid lead asks for, especially with gear. If it is not said, ask so you can start getting your tank setup.

Most important, don't defend your current gear choices. The raid lead will not appreciate arguing. Raid leases are often willing to work with a new tank who wants to learn but not one that argues. Most raid leads are likely aware of what the preceded head is and why because most string raiders also raid with more moderate guilds.

Be patient. It takes time to get into a regular tanking spot. Well worth the time if it's what you want to do.

Take it as you wish

idk

F7sus4 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Further, based on the OP, a tank with limited experience should be open to information on how to tank a fight. Even more so if the tank has only seen it in normal since vet is very different.

Tank is a person that must understand and follow the mechanics of the fights top-notch. DPSers POV is far more forgiving in that matter and their deaths still allow to recover (as a matter of fact you can get pushed through most Trials by simply not standing in stupid as a DD). If tanks die - it's basically a wipe. You can't just go there and become a rock-star instantly. And if tank is a lone-wolf instead of a team-player - he's just useless burden.

Very true.

BuddyAces

Is this guy seriously for real or is he just some elaborate(sp) troll? I enjoy this thread but the longer it goes, the more I wonder if he's not just sitting there giggling to himself as he types.

Shad0wfire99

No wonder this guy cant find a raid guild.