The social bottleneck of Raiding is insurmountable

Royaji

Dantaria wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I know tanks that have done fine against the Warrior in Ebon and Alkosh. Good skill and good healers probably make the difference. I have also seen an OT in vHRC once and it was the first time I saw it on HM since it was upgraded. The OT is not even needed in HM, but it was something they were trying. But this is not really relevant to the convo.

It isn't, but it's interesting still

We're not elite group, we're just running trials for the fun of it (and only currently progressing through vMoL ).

We got hiccups on Warrior, where our tank just got oneshotted, though he dodged on time and was constantly healed. Nobody really cared much. There are ways to deal with it Though I do wonder what the heck is wrong. Sometimes our poor tank dodges and lives. Sometimes - dodges and dies o_O

But no Alkosh and Ebon? Eeeeeerm... Things just got harder for the group... Weeeeell... I guess you can be proud that you didn't die... But we're not that grateful

The best technic I know of is blockspamming igneous. This way you can survive "thousand cuts like whispers in the wind" even without an off-tank.

Kolache

Regarding the OP,

I agree to some extent. Sure, other games have raid filling woes too, but ESO is more geared towards casual and solo players for the vast majority of the game. Since people don't have to come together to accomplish things in most of the game, (including gearing their characters), it probably makes raiding even more niche than the average MMO.

That being said, the fact that nothing significant is locked behind raiding sorta gives this problem a 'pass', IMO. If people really want to raid, they'll find a way. TBH, I'd be more concerned about raiders that manage to raid complaining about it not being worth the trouble.

I guess it seems similar to people that love/have VMA, or love/hate PvP... while I can sympathize with wanting maelstrom weapons from normal arena or a cyrodiil that was PvE only, these things just weren't designed for those purposes... sorta like raiding wasn't designed for casual pugs. Mitigate that if you can find a 'best of both worlds' middle-ground, but don't compromise the experience for the people that content was designed for.

Just $.02 from someone that hasn't raided habitually since vanilla WoW.

Dantaria

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't recommend on the main tank depending on dodge rolling around to avoid the channeled swipes of the final boss.

You have a better chance of survival if the tank just blocks through it and the healers heal through it (gotta make sure the healers are on top of healing).

Royaji wrote: »

The best technic I know of is blockspamming igneous. This way you can survive "thousand cuts like whispers in the wind" even without an off-tank.

Yeah, we kinda felt that dodging isn't the best strategy (new BiS Well-fitted meta, aha ), so we chose Guard-strategy in the end.

I'll pass the word about "blockspamming igneous". Thanks a lot, guys!

idk

IronCrystal wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I know tanks that have done fine against the Warrior in Ebon and Alkosh. Good skill and good healers probably make the difference. I have also seen an OT in vHRC once and it was the first time I saw it on HM since it was upgraded. The OT is not even needed in HM, but it was something they were trying. But this is not really relevant to the convo.

It isn't, but it's interesting still

We're not elite group, we're just running trials for the fun of it (and only currently progressing through vMoL ).

We got hiccups on Warrior, where our tank just got oneshotted, though he dodged on time and was constantly healed. Nobody really cared much. There are ways to deal with it Though I do wonder what the heck is wrong. Sometimes our poor tank dodges and lives. Sometimes - dodges and dies o_O

But no Alkosh and Ebon? Eeeeeerm... Things just got harder for the group... Weeeeell... I guess you can be proud that you didn't die... But we're not that grateful

I wouldn't recommend on the main tank depending on dodge rolling around to avoid the channeled swipes of the final boss.

You have a better chance of survival if the tank just blocks through it and the healers heal through it (gotta make sure the healers are on top of healing).

also check CP. damage differs between the trials. vHRC is heavier physical damage than vAA on the tank. Warrior especially is physical damage on the tank for those swipes. Tank can also call out heals or whatever is chosen when the swipes start so healers can be on their game.

One easy way for groups to get the feel of it is for the healer to stand to the side of the tank so he/she can see the swipes and keep the heals going. The other healer focuses on the group.

Further, the tank can help actively mitigate the damage and help heal with vigor and shield if DK, blur if NB and Templars have minor protection available and shield.

efster

I main a NB tank and have cleared vmol HM as offtank. You cannot do it in a snowflake build trying to be a saptank. You simply can't. You need Ebon (or Imperium if MT is running Ebon). You need Alkosh. You need Lord Warden. Our ulti gen far outstrips DKs, that is true, but tank/healer ultis rotate in order, and you don't need more ulti gen than a DK in hm trials. It is not about "meta humping" it's about supporting your group with EVERYTHING you can, not just your ~crit passives~. As our group worked through vmol and then vmol HM, I had to make adjustments to my build as I learned. It takes 12 people working together to complete the hardest content in this game. DPS can get away with being selfish and parsing when they should be bashing an add that's beaming their tank, because there are other DPS around to pick up their slack, but a tank does not have that luxury because both tanks in vet raids have very specific jobs, and you have to put everything into doing that job. If you aren't willing to compromise in any way, tanking group content is not for you.

TARAFRAKA

efster wrote: »

I main a NB tank and have cleared vmol HM as offtank. You cannot do it in a snowflake build trying to be a saptank. You simply can't. You need Ebon (or Imperium if MT is running Ebon). You need Alkosh. You need Lord Warden. Our ulti gen far outstrips DKs, that is true, but tank/healer ultis rotate in order, and you don't need more ulti gen than a DK in hm trials. It is not about "meta humping" it's about supporting your group with EVERYTHING you can, not just your ~crit passives~. As our group worked through vmol and then vmol HM, I had to make adjustments to my build as I learned. It takes 12 people working together to complete the hardest content in this game. DPS can get away with being selfish and parsing when they should be bashing an add that's beaming their tank, because there are other DPS around to pick up their slack, but a tank does not have that luxury because both tanks in vet raids have very specific jobs, and you have to put everything into doing that job. If you aren't willing to compromise in any way, tanking group content is not for you.

*slow clap*

idk

efster wrote: »

I main a NB tank and have cleared vmol HM as offtank. You cannot do it in a snowflake build trying to be a saptank. You simply can't. You need Ebon (or Imperium if MT is running Ebon). You need Alkosh. You need Lord Warden. Our ulti gen far outstrips DKs, that is true, but tank/healer ultis rotate in order, and you don't need more ulti gen than a DK in hm trials. It is not about "meta humping" it's about supporting your group with EVERYTHING you can, not just your ~crit passives~. As our group worked through vmol and then vmol HM, I had to make adjustments to my build as I learned. It takes 12 people working together to complete the hardest content in this game. DPS can get away with being selfish and parsing when they should be bashing an add that's beaming their tank, because there are other DPS around to pick up their slack, but a tank does not have that luxury because both tanks in vet raids have very specific jobs, and you have to put everything into doing that job. If you aren't willing to compromise in any way, tanking group content is not for you.

@efster well said and certainly double grats on you HM clear, especially as a NB tank.

F7sus4

It's so funny that a random shrug claiming random BS is getting 8 pages of attention while topics with in-depth analysis on classes, meta, or builds sometimes receive no more than 4-5 answers total here. Kinda reveals people natural affinity to US sitcom level.

Just a food for thought.

TARAFRAKA

F7sus4 wrote: »

It's so funny that a random shrug claiming random BS is getting 8 pages of attention while topics with in-depth analysis on classes, meta, or builds sometimes receive no more than 4-5 answers total here. Kinda reveals people natural affinity to US sitcom level.

Just a food for thought.

Nah most of us here have commented on many of those in depth posts regarding the upcoming changes.
Your observation is a fallacy.
"Its funny youre so concerned about starving children in 3rd world countries but what about the homeless in America?" Fallacy.
We are capable of contemplating BOTH. One does not rule out the other.

F7sus4

It's the classical "worth attention" vs "gets attention" situation pretty similar to mainstream music being widely popular while some sophisticated genres/projects receive recognition mostly in niches.

And there we are here with the Nickelback-like man thread.

Wifeaggro13

Oompuh wrote: »

LTB video of walksongraves tanking 6 axes - 4m gold

The problem with Eso design right there. Aggro management mechanics are nonexistent in this game. The targeting system does not support them the class abilities do not support them, its the same with CC. That fight is only hard to tank because the mechanics of this game are so garbage for CC and aggro management. The only design in this game that functions is DPS , and that is by design. The rest of the tanking role is just utility and Block. the only role that requires ultra performance is DPS