Un-nerf raidiant destruction.

Destyran · April 2017

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Any reason why any execute should start at 50% health?

Mate it didnt start at 50% you clearly have no idea how it worked? Get out of the thread. It only said that on the tooltip it didnt start proper executing till about 30-25%

me_ming · April 2017

KingJ wrote: »

Nahhh get good.I'm still hitting 55k+ RD in trials the Nerf was fine and doesn't needed to be change.

Only thing templars need is Blazing spear back and there be fine.

The point of OP was that the dmg nurf was unnecessary in the first place. And you only hit 55k? lol you get good. That's pathetic.

Anyhow, the dmg nerf was unnecessary, but whatever, because it really has not changed the skill by a lot. Like mentioned by many, it should have been the range that was nerfed. Don't get me wrong, I love RD it is a fun skill for me. Because you know people who doesn't know how to counter it, because they just die to it. lol. RD has so many counter, I barely use it. I think I use dark flare more than RD (in PvP). It's the range that really makes this skill OP. If you have Propelling Shield (which I admit, I do), you can just stay on top of your wall keep 2 dark flare + 1 RD = dead enemy using a siege. lol

Brutusmax1mus · April 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Enough with the 50% thing. This is the most misleading tooltip in the game. The scaling is awful until about 35% and it only truly becomes a great execute around 20%.

Other Myths Busted

- Radiant has an incorrect death recap. You did not die to a 25k beam. You had one hit point left and would have died to an unarmed punch. It just shows all of the damage you would have gotten if you somehow survived with only 1 hit point left. Which you wouldn't, because you can't.
- Radiant is no longer powerful due to the 21% nerf. So now you're getting hit for 20k instead of 25k. Not that it matters because you're dead anyway. See previous point.
- Radiant spammers only push one button. Nope. You have to empower it first. That's 2 buttons. Even 3 if you include a CC.
- Radiant would be fixed if you lowered the distance. Nope. Only if you also lowered heavy armor. I can beam you from 5 feet just as easily as I can from 30 yards. If I was in light armor that would not be a viable option.
- Radiant is unfair to roll dodgers. Nope. Radiant is the only thing keeping roll dodgers in line. It's the exact rock to their scissors.
- Radiant was nerfed due to PVP. Nope. It was nerfed because people were hitting 60 to 80k damage ticks on bosses in PVE.
- Sam Bradford is a good quarterback. Nope. He stinks.

Everything here I agree with. Besides 1 thing

the 50% was not the reason it got nerfed correct,
but it was part of the problem. And yes it did
hit hard. At 50% With full Impen gold Julianos gear5/1/1 light/medium/heavy. I was getting 4k ticks on me. That's a continuous execution tick from 40yards out

It was excessive. And even with the nerfs is still the best pvp and pve execute. That alone is proof to uphold the nerf

Shield up and laugh since you're in light dude wtf. Even with 4k ticks that takes 2 seconds to drain 1 shield... Which probably have you magicka back to cast another. Don't complain about things hitting you hard if you're in light armor...

My light attack executioner weaves would hit for more than that anyway.

That works now, like I said this was only in retrospect to the old Radiant destruction "dude"

And when I was wearing 5 light, and everything is golded out with full impen no, just no. Light attack executioner hits barely harder. And had to be close range. I can easily dodge roll it as well. RD can't be avoided as easily, and before your inevitable "interupt" comment comes in, please tell me what gap closer has a 40yard range. Go on I'll wait.

You're using destro right? Flame reach is 28 yards. If you're further than that you might as well streak backwards and break the channel....... Dude.

Dubhliam · April 2017

Where is the lol button when you need it?

ArvenAldmeri · April 2017

That execute still hits like a truck. In both pvp and pve. If doing anything with it, nerf it by another like 10%.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Destyran wrote: »

I 1v X just fine killing healer last.

Oh, like trollplar doesn't heal anyone else.

Have you ever 1v1 a decent magplar and won? In the best case scenario, they will just tank you until the zerg come and zerg you down.

notimetocare · April 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Pff....
Un-nerf NB... xD

Btw. look at this:
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Teleport+Strike

Teleport Strike has different effect on players and different effect on NPC / mobs (as far as I know there are only 2 - 3 skills in the whole game that have such feature)
That is weird. ZOS has proven us that it is possible to balance skills differently for PvP / PvE.

Much smaller calculation load for that as opposed to damage recalculation

ArvenAldmeri · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

I 1v X just fine killing healer last.

Oh, like trollplar doesn't heal anyone else.

Have you ever 1v1 a decent magplar and won? In the best case scenario, they will just tank you until the zerg come and zerg you down.

This. Was fighting a templar for like 5 minutes, tanky as hell, healing from execute to full all the time, he got split from his group. And then I see his zergy friends coming back. So I just left the fight. I could have killed that templar. He was not doing enough damage to me and I am sure he would make a mistake after some time.

leepalmer95 · April 2017

Destyran wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Any reason why any execute should start at 50% health?

Mate it didnt start at 50% you clearly have no idea how it worked? Get out of the thread. It only said that on the tooltip it didnt start proper executing till about 30-25%

But it does start at 50%, its base dmg starts increasing at 50% hp. Thats how it works.

Unlike other executes which are actually useless above their execute threshold such as impale. If someone isn't at 25% you wont hit for anything. If you do that with beam you'll still be hitting quite hard.

I'm not sure why it even starts scaling that high, someone at 50% hp isn't even close to low hp. Its dmg should completely ignorable until 25% but its not.

If someones spamming beam on you and your getting lowish hp, you panic and you knwo you need to deal with it.

If someone was spamming impale or endless fury on me when i was getting lowish then i'd laugh and ignore them, or dodge etc... Funny how balanced these two seem.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2017

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Any reason why any execute should start at 50% health?

Compare it to NB's Assassin's Blade... 25% health...

TequilaFire · April 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Any reason why any execute should start at 50% health?

Mate it didnt start at 50% you clearly have no idea how it worked? Get out of the thread. It only said that on the tooltip it didnt start proper executing till about 30-25%

But it does start at 50%, its base dmg starts increasing at 50% hp. Thats how it works.

Unlike other executes which are actually useless above their execute threshold such as impale. If someone isn't at 25% you wont hit for anything. If you do that with beam you'll still be hitting quite hard.

I'm not sure why it even starts scaling that high, someone at 50% hp isn't even close to low hp. Its dmg should completely ignorable until 25% but its not.

If someones spamming beam on you and your getting lowish hp, you panic and you knwo you need to deal with it.

If someone was spamming impale or endless fury on me when i was getting lowish then i'd laugh and ignore them, or dodge etc... Funny how balanced these two seem.

Except you never even see the sorc that disintegrates you with wrath and it's implosion passive after being cursed, but it is hard to miss that blinding beam coming at you and if you are smart you roll in the opposite direction of the beam if you are at range and break it every time.Unless of course you already are in execute range which most are not admitting to.

Radiant is not a pure execute in the first place as it is designed to do damage before execute range.
Also most ignore the fact that RD procs sets like my Skoria so on the first couple of ticks ny Skoria will proc taking you instantly into execute range and RD finishes the job.

AcadianPaladin · April 2017

As a PvE healer, my bars are very full of superb skills. Any one that makes the cut has to do several things. I use RG and it does indeed fill several roles:
- Best execute my group is likely to have.
- Is my ranged 'interrupt'. When a squishy mage at max range is attacking, RG takes him out (I've probably already got him under Purify and possibly Shards). For that I need the 28m range. If nerfs are necessary, I would rather take damage nerf than range nerf on Radiant. I know there are other interrupt abilities and that Radiant actually kills instead of 'interrupting' but, again, I need any skill that finds a slot on my bars to do multiple things. As a healer, this is especially true of any damage type abilities. Blazing Spear follows the same logic - damage plus sustain for my stamina allies. Purify - damage, damage enhancer, healing. Etc.

KingJ · April 2017

me_ming wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Nahhh get good.I'm still hitting 55k+ RD in trials the Nerf was fine and doesn't needed to be change.

Only thing templars need is Blazing spear back and there be fine.

The point of OP was that the dmg nurf was unnecessary in the first place. And you only hit 55k? lol you get good. That's pathetic.

Anyhow, the dmg nerf was unnecessary, but whatever, because it really has not changed the skill by a lot. Like mentioned by many, it should have been the range that was nerfed. Don't get me wrong, I love RD it is a fun skill for me. Because you know people who doesn't know how to counter it, because they just die to it. lol. RD has so many counter, I barely use it. I think I use dark flare more than RD (in PvP). It's the range that really makes this skill OP. If you have Propelling Shield (which I admit, I do), you can just stay on top of your wall keep 2 dark flare + 1 RD = dead enemy using a siege. lol

L2R 55k+ dude.Plus no one hitting 70k RD anymore 55k is far from bad when there some kids only hitting 25-30k.

Kay1 · April 2017

You're wrong, I was literally able to 1vX people spamming javelin and radiant destruction, my radiant destruction used to deal 9k DPS on a target with 80% health.

The damage is fine right now but in my opinion they should increase the damage way more and make it scale from 25% while reducing the range.

It's maybe not an issue for you but as a solo player it was annoying to get spammed by 6 different radiant destruction while getting stunned by shards and getting hit by 5 meteors.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · April 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

You're wrong, I was literally able to 1vX people spamming javelin and radiant destruction, my radiant destruction used to deal 9k DPS on a target with 80% health.

The damage is fine right now but in my opinion they should increase the damage way more and make it scale from 25% while reducing the range.

It's maybe not an issue for you but as a solo player it was annoying to get spammed by 6 different radiant destruction while getting stunned by shards and getting hit by 5 meteors.

I can safely say that if you're a solo player who gets himself into a situation where you're getting hit by 11 different moves then you were the one who made a mistake way before those 11 moves killed you.

maxjapank · April 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Any reason why any execute should start at 50% health?

Compare it to NB's Assassin's Blade... 25% health...

I sure hope that we aren't running down this path again....comparing NB vs. Templar. They are two very different play styles. And both executes have their advantages and weaknesses.

NB is highly mobile, the execute is instant, and recently had it's range increased. But the execute is dodgeable.

A Templar is not mobile, the execute is a channel and snare for the Templar, range is same, but starts it's execute earlier. It isn't dodgeable, but is purgeable. (But please, please let's get over this 50% tooltip...it doesn't do max damage at 50%...and only starts to kick in at 35%...and even then it's not that strong.)

People get so focused on stuff sometimes that they don't see the bigger picture.

SublimeSparo · April 2017

Executioner and poison injection start executing at 50%
One leaves a lingering executing dot, that like beam is buffed (and therefore mitigated) by 2 cp stars, and once placed additional damage/ cc can be applied
The other can be weaved/ ani cancelled and has an aoe morph

maxjapank · April 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

You're wrong, I was literally able to 1vX people spamming javelin and radiant destruction, my radiant destruction used to deal 9k DPS on a target with 80% health.

I'm not buying this. There is no way that you could just Javelin into Radiant kills in a 1vX situation unless you were fighting lemons. You might have gotten some kills when someone was at lower health that way or with others fighting around you. But any competent player would've bashed you...or put enough pressure on you to steal that kill away.

Kay1 wrote: »

The damage is fine right now but in my opinion they should increase the damage way more and make it scale from 25% while reducing the range.

I don't think you'd find many Templars willing to accept all of those changes. Most were fine with the damage and scaling from 50% ( which was more like 35%) and were willing to accept a range reduction. But if you lower the execute range to 25%, then I'd not settle for anything less than an instant execute. And that would make us a NB.

I know that the op is asking for Radiants changes to be reverted. But I think many are okay with it now. It still hurts and can land kills when used smartly.

leepalmer95 · April 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Executioner and poison injection start executing at 50%
One leaves a lingering executing dot, that like beam is buffed (and therefore mitigated) by 2 cp stars, and once placed additional damage/ cc can be applied
The other can be weaved/ ani cancelled and has an aoe morph

One is a dot execute and isn't a true execute as even when people are below 25% it'll tick around 4k~ crits in pvp on squishy's. Can be reflected, dodge rolled and purged. Requires a bow

Executioner is melee ranged, requires a 2h, can be dodged. Doesn't double dip into dmg cp like beam, doesn't have a morph that just flat out increases its damage either.

Beam is undodgable, unreflectable, dips into dot cp as well, has a morph that just flat out increases its dmg by up to 20%, has a 40m range, scales at 50%.

Beam is much much more effective.

maxjapank · April 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Executioner and poison injection start executing at 50%
One leaves a lingering executing dot, that like beam is buffed (and therefore mitigated) by 2 cp stars, and once placed additional damage/ cc can be applied
The other can be weaved/ ani cancelled and has an aoe morph

One is a dot execute and isn't a true execute as even when people are below 25% it'll tick around 4k~ crits in pvp on squishy's. Can be reflected, dodge rolled and purged. Requires a bow

Executioner is melee ranged, requires a 2h, can be dodged. Doesn't double dip into dmg cp like beam, doesn't have a morph that just flat out increases its damage either.

Beam is undodgable, unreflectable, dips into dot cp as well, has a morph that just flat out increases its dmg by up to 20%, has a 40m range, scales at 50%.

Beam is much much more effective.

Your quite skilled at listing Beam's advantages and leaving out its disadvantages. Glad you don't make this game. It'd be pretty one-sided.

leepalmer95 · April 2017

maxjapank wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Executioner and poison injection start executing at 50%
One leaves a lingering executing dot, that like beam is buffed (and therefore mitigated) by 2 cp stars, and once placed additional damage/ cc can be applied
The other can be weaved/ ani cancelled and has an aoe morph

One is a dot execute and isn't a true execute as even when people are below 25% it'll tick around 4k~ crits in pvp on squishy's. Can be reflected, dodge rolled and purged. Requires a bow

Executioner is melee ranged, requires a 2h, can be dodged. Doesn't double dip into dmg cp like beam, doesn't have a morph that just flat out increases its damage either.

Beam is undodgable, unreflectable, dips into dot cp as well, has a morph that just flat out increases its dmg by up to 20%, has a 40m range, scales at 50%.

Beam is much much more effective.

Your quite skilled at listing Beam's advantages and leaving out its disadvantages. Glad you don't make this game. It'd be pretty one-sided.

Alchuri v16 Templar Healer /dps

Glad you see fit to comment on a balance discussion thread about your only class.

I'm sure your not biased at all, glad you don't balance this game, otherwise templars would be even more easy mode.

OdinForge · April 2017

The execute is finally relatively balanced, and people want to unbalance it again. We were in a 3v8 the other day and using our one magplar to focus priority targets in-between healing for the extra support pressure. The skill was over-performing way too much before, it's still good but now it's more grounded.

Blows my mind how anyone could have defended this skill in the past.

Dredlord · April 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Executioner and poison injection start executing at 50%
One leaves a lingering executing dot, that like beam is buffed (and therefore mitigated) by 2 cp stars, and once placed additional damage/ cc can be applied
The other can be weaved/ ani cancelled and has an aoe morph

One is a dot execute and isn't a true execute as even when people are below 25% it'll tick around 4k~ crits in pvp on squishy's. Can be reflected, dodge rolled and purged. Requires a bow

Executioner is melee ranged, requires a 2h, can be dodged. Doesn't double dip into dmg cp like beam, doesn't have a morph that just flat out increases its damage either.

Beam is undodgable, unreflectable, dips into dot cp as well, has a morph that just flat out increases its dmg by up to 20%, has a 40m range, scales at 50%.

Beam is much much more effective.

Your quite skilled at listing Beam's advantages and leaving out its disadvantages. Glad you don't make this game. It'd be pretty one-sided.

Alchuri v16 Templar Healer /dps

Glad you see fit to comment on a balance discussion thread about your only class.

I'm sure your not biased at all, glad you don't balance this game, otherwise templars would be even more easy mode.

Whoah back off everyone he has a vet 16 templar...

technohic · April 2017

I seriously wish this skill never happened. Templars were more fun. To play back then with blinding flashes

Nelson_Rebel · April 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Enough with the 50% thing. This is the most misleading tooltip in the game. The scaling is awful until about 35% and it only truly becomes a great execute around 20%.

Other Myths Busted

- Radiant has an incorrect death recap. You did not die to a 25k beam. You had one hit point left and would have died to an unarmed punch. It just shows all of the damage you would have gotten if you somehow survived with only 1 hit point left. Which you wouldn't, because you can't.
- Radiant is no longer powerful due to the 21% nerf. So now you're getting hit for 20k instead of 25k. Not that it matters because you're dead anyway. See previous point.
- Radiant spammers only push one button. Nope. You have to empower it first. That's 2 buttons. Even 3 if you include a CC.
- Radiant would be fixed if you lowered the distance. Nope. Only if you also lowered heavy armor. I can beam you from 5 feet just as easily as I can from 30 yards. If I was in light armor that would not be a viable option.
- Radiant is unfair to roll dodgers. Nope. Radiant is the only thing keeping roll dodgers in line. It's the exact rock to their scissors.
- Radiant was nerfed due to PVP. Nope. It was nerfed because people were hitting 60 to 80k damage ticks on bosses in PVE.
- Sam Bradford is a good quarterback. Nope. He stinks.

Everything here I agree with. Besides 1 thing

the 50% was not the reason it got nerfed correct,
but it was part of the problem. And yes it did
hit hard. At 50% With full Impen gold Julianos gear5/1/1 light/medium/heavy. I was getting 4k ticks on me. That's a continuous execution tick from 40yards out

It was excessive. And even with the nerfs is still the best pvp and pve execute. That alone is proof to uphold the nerf

Shield up and laugh since you're in light dude wtf. Even with 4k ticks that takes 2 seconds to drain 1 shield... Which probably have you magicka back to cast another. Don't complain about things hitting you hard if you're in light armor...

My light attack executioner weaves would hit for more than that anyway.

That works now, like I said this was only in retrospect to the old Radiant destruction "dude"

And when I was wearing 5 light, and everything is golded out with full impen no, just no. Light attack executioner hits barely harder. And had to be close range. I can easily dodge roll it as well. RD can't be avoided as easily, and before your inevitable "interupt" comment comes in, please tell me what gap closer has a 40yard range. Go on I'll wait.

You're using destro right? Flame reach is 28 yards. If you're further than that you might as well streak backwards and break the channel....... Dude.

Because every class is a sorc right?

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

OdinForge wrote: »

Blows my mind how anyone could have defended this skill in the past.

Magplar mains :P

datgladiatah · April 2017

It's 70k crit at like the end of the fight. Templar's weren't out DPSing everything. I definitely agree that the nerf should remain in pvp, or at least change the nerf to something like doing more damage closer rather than further. Annoying the abilities can do different things on players but instead they just make the overall class less fun.

TequilaFire · April 2017

Oh yeah I will take blinding flashes back!

Radburn · April 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Let's not pretend sorcs shield stacking, DK talon spam, or NB clever alch + max damage are somehow "skillful" whereas templars are easy mode.

Agreed. Balance is achieved through un-balance. Every class has OP skills/builds, now go find yours.

WhiteMage · April 2017

I haven't actually tested this definitively, but I have a feeling it is so. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

I'm pretty sure that, while impale kicks in for full damage anywhere after its threshold, RD does not reach its maximum damage until the target is dead (the scaling is not continuous at that point, but neglecting that...) But you know what? In order for us to actually evaluate RD we need to know it's actual scaling. Some people here act like RD reaches its maximum damage AT 50%, which is just plain wrong. Given my inference of its scaling, impale has better damage in all real situations (where it has kicked in, ofc). Frankly, without a mathematical model, we are all wasting oxygen by comparing the two in this way.

For all you magplar haters (not healplars haters, they deserve it), don't try to kill our damage toolkit. Far better it would be to come up with ideas that still benefit dps magplars (in PvP) but don't let the healplars double dip into superb healing and great damage tools. If you actually want to nerf RD damage though, sure, decrease the damage, but ramp up the scaling, by which I mean more than 4x. Magplars still use pressure primarily as offense--though we gained a great burst tool in backlash--but that doesn't cut it in all cases. We need that burst in the execute.

It's a darn shame that you boost damage the same way you boost healing.