Honestly, with crafting bag I very rarely hit bank space limit, and will keep all currently unused gear sets on mules anyway.

Next to useless for me.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'm a Sub-for-Life, and I'm torn.

Real-world money buying in-game advantages is inherently bad. It obliterates the integrity of the RPG experience.

On the other hand, selling inventory/bank space in the Crown store isn't a thing I would normally have trouble with.

I suppose if it were "subs automatically get all possible inventory and bank space open to them," I wouldn't have a problem with it. But access to space non-subs don't have seems like an unfair advantage to me, and you can't buy unfair advantages in good games.

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I was really hoping they'd come up with a new financial-advantage value-add for ESO+, not an in-game advantage. I have no idea what that might have been, though.

What actual advantage is it buying? None. An advantage would be some OP weapon or armor you could only obtain through the store that would absolutely lay waste to anything in game. But we already have bank slots that can be purchased....But hey who knows, maybe youve never visited the Crown Store.

Well, if you don't see getting to spend more time playing actually-enjoyable parts of the game and less time playing the Inventory Minigame as an advantage, there's probably no point arguing. But I live in hope (and I'm the kind of idiot who just doesn't recognize a lost cause some times), so here are a few more (that should be self-evident):

• More time spent doing content that moves your character towards BiS gear, less time dealing with inventory.
• More time spent doing content that improves player skill and familiarity with mechanics, less time dealing with inventory.
• More inventory to store items that aren't useful yet but will be when you have a 5-piece set.
• More inventory to store items for present and future alts.
• More inventory to store sets that aren't useful yet but will be when future changes take place.

There's a lot more to the game than just the combat, but even if that's the only thing you that matters to you, more inventory space still helps you improve yourself in combat.

While this is an advantage, it doesn't provide a competitive advantage over any other player when competing against said player.

The extra bank spaces are purely a pay-for-convenience perk, as opposed to a Pay-to-Win advantage. Inventory management is not a competitive endeavor in this game.

White wabbit wrote: »

I don't think this is that great , with the crafting bag I can manage my bank , wish they had come up with something else instead

No one said this was the only thing they are doing. In fact I believe they said that they were looking into other features as well. This one just happened to be discovered early.

Ok I might just sub now.

Awful idea, coming from someone who has been almost continually subbed since launch.

Why is it an awful idea? You're subbed and your bank is full. Or nearly full. Or even 3/4 full. You take a break, let your sub lapse, but maybe pop on for an hour or two a week. If you want to deposit something else in your bank, you're going to have to empty up to half of it plus one item. Or to put it another way, you're going to have to empty a current bank's worth of items.

Anyone who played before craft bag will know that organising/vendoring/guild storing/juggling this amount of items around will probably mean hopping on and off all of your characters multiple times and will eat up literally hours of time. This isn't a perk, it's an underhand design aimed at locking you into a sub when you don't want it or won't be making use of it.

They're either continuing to treat us like piggy banks or they literally have no idea. I ruefully suspect the former - I don't think their game designers are stupid, I just think they're being dictated to by marketing/finance. Because this is a stupid piece of game design beyond the sparkly headline.

Nah, this should be in the base game along transmog. Subscribers should get more crowns and some cosmetic rewards every month, more XP boost. Maybe lower the subscription cost too (a lot of players don't subscribe because $15 is a lot in foreign countries).

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'm a Sub-for-Life, and I'm torn.

Real-world money buying in-game advantages is inherently bad. It obliterates the integrity of the RPG experience.

On the other hand, selling inventory/bank space in the Crown store isn't a thing I would normally have trouble with.

I suppose if it were "subs automatically get all possible inventory and bank space open to them," I wouldn't have a problem with it. But access to space non-subs don't have seems like an unfair advantage to me, and you can't buy unfair advantages in good games.

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I was really hoping they'd come up with a new financial-advantage value-add for ESO+, not an in-game advantage. I have no idea what that might have been, though.

What actual advantage is it buying? None. An advantage would be some OP weapon or armor you could only obtain through the store that would absolutely lay waste to anything in game. But we already have bank slots that can be purchased....But hey who knows, maybe youve never visited the Crown Store.

Well, if you don't see getting to spend more time playing actually-enjoyable parts of the game and less time playing the Inventory Minigame as an advantage, there's probably no point arguing. But I live in hope (and I'm the kind of idiot who just doesn't recognize a lost cause some times), so here are a few more (that should be self-evident):

• More time spent doing content that moves your character towards BiS gear, less time dealing with inventory.
• More time spent doing content that improves player skill and familiarity with mechanics, less time dealing with inventory.
• More inventory to store items that aren't useful yet but will be when you have a 5-piece set.
• More inventory to store items for present and future alts.
• More inventory to store sets that aren't useful yet but will be when future changes take place.

There's a lot more to the game than just the combat, but even if that's the only thing you that matters to you, more inventory space still helps you improve yourself in combat.

While this is an advantage, it doesn't provide a competitive advantage over any other player when competing against said player.

The extra bank spaces are purely a pay-for-convenience perk, as opposed to a Pay-to-Win advantage. Inventory management is not a competitive endeavor in this game.

The items in inventory are so therefore, increasing the pool of possible items actually does create a clear competitive advantage for the following:

-trading
-gear upgrades
-holding stuff for others
-allowing ppl to clear out or overbuy guild store items

So if it's only accessible via real money, yeah....that is a form of pay2win it's just not immediate so that's why you're arguing over it. The timeframe is not what makes it pay2win, the access means is what determines this

None of those things are competitive activities (with one exception, perhaps, which i will describe below) and more bank spots for subscribers does not limit non subscribers from doing any of those activities.

Here are the competitive activities in this game:

1) PvP combat. The most basic and easy to understand competition. It's you vs your enemy. In this competition, you cannot change items or even access the bank, making extra bank slots useless.

2) AP ranking/campaign ranking. Seeing how this is a function of time spent in combat, the limitations of the previous competitive aspect of this game apply here as well.

3) PvE Leaderboards. These are a competition of speed and efficiency. While there are definitely cases of changing out gear, the extra pieces take up a fraction of your inventory space and accessing a bank simply slows down runs, making you LESS competitive. Thus, no advantage here.

4) Selling items. Here is the only conceivable place where extra Bank Slots might provide an advantage. However, the only competition is between you and other SELLERS of items for a consumer's gold. If you are using so many bank slots to STORE items, then you are not SELLING items and thus not competing. Or at least not competing in a way that the advantage of banks slots is making up for you lack of competitiveness in the other parts of selling. Simply put, if you find yourself storing too many items you mean to sell, you are losing the competition.

Edit: messed up my quotes.

TheStealthDude wrote: »

4) Selling items. Here is the only conceivable place where extra Bank Slots might provide an advantage. However, the only competition is between you and other SELLERS of items for a consumer's gold. If you are using so many bank slots to STORE items, then you are not SELLING items and thus not competing. Or at least not competing in a way that the advantage of banks slots is making up for you lack of competitiveness in the other parts of selling. Simply put, if you find yourself storing too many items you mean to sell, you are losing the competition.

That's not quite true. Have you ever heard the legend of the man who buried a dozen brand new Mercedes in the desert? "Why did he do that?" I hear you ask. Well, let me explain!

He didn't just bury them anywhere, he buried them right on the border. You see, there was a war happening and the frontline was moving rapidly. In a few months, that border had changed and they were worth almost twice as much as he paid for them. And in that fable you have the biggest competitive benefit to a trader of free storage - the ability to wait for a more favourable price.

@Rickter
I don't feel you should compare WoW or FFXIV to ESO because what they do not offer in terms of subscription way outpaces what they offer in content and stability of their servers... just saying mate.

Eh...
Nice for them but even non-subscribers need more storage. I am also supporting the game. I buy crowns every now and then. I just don't want to pay in advance becouse I don't know how much compensation I am able to get to my pre-pruchased game time and on the other hand it would force me to play the game too much becouse I alread paid for it...

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Well, if you don't see getting to spend more time playing actually-enjoyable parts of the game and less time playing the Inventory Minigame as an advantage, there's probably no point arguing. But I live in hope (and I'm the kind of idiot who just doesn't recognize a lost cause some times), so here are a few more (that should be self-evident):

• More time spent doing content that moves your character towards BiS gear, less time dealing with inventory.
• More time spent doing content that improves player skill and familiarity with mechanics, less time dealing with inventory.
• More inventory to store items that aren't useful yet but will be when you have a 5-piece set.
• More inventory to store items for present and future alts.
• More inventory to store sets that aren't useful yet but will be when future changes take place.

There's a lot more to the game than just the combat, but even if that's the only thing you that matters to you, more inventory space still helps you improve yourself in combat.

Surprisingly, as far as inventory is concerned, it isn't about inventory management. I can do inventory management. I find that the single biggest advantage to ESO Plus is that crafting writs pull from the crafting bag, so I don't have to stop by the bank to get the 3 flowers, or whatever. I have discovered that this is more important than the crafting bag itself.

As for the "inventory mini-game", this is a matter of prioritization. I see it as part of the larger game, and when played with focus, efficiently, and well, is to the rest of the game what high DPS is to combat.

I have many questions on how you get from 240 to 580 bank slots:
Do you have to buy it in 10 slot increments for enormous amounts of gold?
If you are already at max, will you just get an increase to 580 slots for free?
What happens if you are not already at slot capacity?

Anyone having inventory issues now - like me - will not really be aided by this because it just means we'll keep more stuff. So instead of 240 bank slots with only 10 free, we will have 580 slots but still only have 10 free

I don't see how it is a 'pay to win' or a 'sub to win' benefit as it only means you have more bank slots so less time spent managing inventory. If that makes it an unfair advantage, then so were the merchant and banker, allowing you to clear inventory in the middle of a dungeon instead of travelling to town.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'm a Sub-for-Life, and I'm torn.

Real-world money buying in-game advantages is inherently bad. It obliterates the integrity of the RPG experience.

On the other hand, selling inventory/bank space in the Crown store isn't a thing I would normally have trouble with.

I suppose if it were "subs automatically get all possible inventory and bank space open to them," I wouldn't have a problem with it. But access to space non-subs don't have seems like an unfair advantage to me, and you can't buy unfair advantages in good games.

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I was really hoping they'd come up with a new financial-advantage value-add for ESO+, not an in-game advantage. I have no idea what that might have been, though.

What actual advantage is it buying? None. An advantage would be some OP weapon or armor you could only obtain through the store that would absolutely lay waste to anything in game. But we already have bank slots that can be purchased....But hey who knows, maybe youve never visited the Crown Store.

Well, if you don't see getting to spend more time playing actually-enjoyable parts of the game and less time playing the Inventory Minigame as an advantage, there's probably no point arguing. But I live in hope (and I'm the kind of idiot who just doesn't recognize a lost cause some times), so here are a few more (that should be self-evident):

• More time spent doing content that moves your character towards BiS gear, less time dealing with inventory.
• More time spent doing content that improves player skill and familiarity with mechanics, less time dealing with inventory.
• More inventory to store items that aren't useful yet but will be when you have a 5-piece set.
• More inventory to store items for present and future alts.
• More inventory to store sets that aren't useful yet but will be when future changes take place.

There's a lot more to the game than just the combat, but even if that's the only thing you that matters to you, more inventory space still helps you improve yourself in combat.

While this is an advantage, it doesn't provide a competitive advantage over any other player when competing against said player.

The extra bank spaces are purely a pay-for-convenience perk, as opposed to a Pay-to-Win advantage. Inventory management is not a competitive endeavor in this game.

The items in inventory are so therefore, increasing the pool of possible items actually does create a clear competitive advantage for the following:

-trading
-gear upgrades
-holding stuff for others
-allowing ppl to clear out or overbuy guild store items

So if it's only accessible via real money, yeah....that is a form of pay2win it's just not immediate so that's why you're arguing over it. The timeframe is not what makes it pay2win, the access means is what determines this

For once you and I actually seem to agree on a p2w concept lol. It really is p2w whether people want to admit it or not. Anything giving a paying player an advantage over one who pays nothing, is what I define as p2w, regardless of the degree to the advantage or the length of time to acquire said advantage.

disintegr8 wrote: »

I have many questions on how you get from 240 to 580 bank slots:
Do you have to buy it in 10 slot increments for enormous amounts of gold?
If you are already at max, will you just get an increase to 580 slots for free?
What happens if you are not already at slot capacity?

Anyone having inventory issues now - like me - will not really be aided by this because it just means we'll keep more stuff. So instead of 240 bank slots with only 10 free, we will have 580 slots but still only have 10 free

I don't see how it is a 'pay to win' or a 'sub to win' benefit as it only means you have more bank slots so less time spent managing inventory. If that makes it an unfair advantage, then so were the merchant and banker, allowing you to clear inventory in the middle of a dungeon instead of travelling to town.

I'm questioning how doubling 240 gets you to 580....

TheStealthDude wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'm a Sub-for-Life, and I'm torn.

Real-world money buying in-game advantages is inherently bad. It obliterates the integrity of the RPG experience.

On the other hand, selling inventory/bank space in the Crown store isn't a thing I would normally have trouble with.

I suppose if it were "subs automatically get all possible inventory and bank space open to them," I wouldn't have a problem with it. But access to space non-subs don't have seems like an unfair advantage to me, and you can't buy unfair advantages in good games.

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I was really hoping they'd come up with a new financial-advantage value-add for ESO+, not an in-game advantage. I have no idea what that might have been, though.

What actual advantage is it buying? None. An advantage would be some OP weapon or armor you could only obtain through the store that would absolutely lay waste to anything in game. But we already have bank slots that can be purchased....But hey who knows, maybe youve never visited the Crown Store.

Well, if you don't see getting to spend more time playing actually-enjoyable parts of the game and less time playing the Inventory Minigame as an advantage, there's probably no point arguing. But I live in hope (and I'm the kind of idiot who just doesn't recognize a lost cause some times), so here are a few more (that should be self-evident):

• More time spent doing content that moves your character towards BiS gear, less time dealing with inventory.
• More time spent doing content that improves player skill and familiarity with mechanics, less time dealing with inventory.
• More inventory to store items that aren't useful yet but will be when you have a 5-piece set.
• More inventory to store items for present and future alts.
• More inventory to store sets that aren't useful yet but will be when future changes take place.

There's a lot more to the game than just the combat, but even if that's the only thing you that matters to you, more inventory space still helps you improve yourself in combat.

While this is an advantage, it doesn't provide a competitive advantage over any other player when competing against said player.

The extra bank spaces are purely a pay-for-convenience perk, as opposed to a Pay-to-Win advantage. Inventory management is not a competitive endeavor in this game.

The items in inventory are so therefore, increasing the pool of possible items actually does create a clear competitive advantage for the following:

-trading
-gear upgrades
-holding stuff for others
-allowing ppl to clear out or overbuy guild store items

So if it's only accessible via real money, yeah....that is a form of pay2win it's just not immediate so that's why you're arguing over it. The timeframe is not what makes it pay2win, the access means is what determines this

None of those things are competitive activities (with one exception, perhaps, which i will describe below) and more bank spots for subscribers does not limit non subscribers from doing any of those activities.

Here are the competitive activities in this game:

1) PvP combat. The most basic and easy to understand competition. It's you vs your enemy. In this competition, you cannot change items or even access the bank, making extra bank slots useless.

2) AP ranking/campaign ranking. Seeing how this is a function of time spent in combat, the limitations of the previous competitive aspect of this game apply here as well.

3) PvE Leaderboards. These are a competition of speed and efficiency. While there are definitely cases of changing out gear, the extra pieces take up a fraction of your inventory space and accessing a bank simply slows down runs, making you LESS competitive. Thus, no advantage here.

4) Selling items. Here is the only conceivable place where extra Bank Slots might provide an advantage. However, the only competition is between you and other SELLERS of items for a consumer's gold. If you are using so many bank slots to STORE items, then you are not SELLING items and thus not competing. Or at least not competing in a way that the advantage of banks slots is making up for you lack of competitiveness in the other parts of selling. Simply put, if you find yourself storing too many items you mean to sell, you are losing the competition.

@TheStealthDude

If I'm in a guild....and let's use your comments above....
1. I have an extra 50-200 slots
2. Required to be paid for


This means me and my guild are exponentially more competitive cause I can hold enough extra gear to make us more competitive in PvE and PvP just due to paying real money.

It has nothing to do with swapping out as you're missing it.
More bank means less inventory, which also means more options


If you allow people to pay for ways to empty actual competitive item problems (not like crafting bag items) but actual items and offer no way for others to gain this without paying real money, it's literally an option for people to pay2win

Holding items is not a competitive activity. You don't win by holding more items than another player. As i argued above, having those extra slots provides no advantage during the actual competition.

Is it convenient? Sure.

But when you go to cyrodil, does it help? No.

When you go into a trial to make a play for the leaderboard, does it help? No

You say this is about you having more inventory space, but you only need a fraction to no inventory space compete on the same level as anyone in the game. If you choose to use your entire bank and entire inventory for storage or reasons outside of the competition, that is your choice. You are not at any disadvantage when taking part in any of the activities i mentioned if you CHOOSE not to be.

This is Pay-for-convenience. Not pay-to-win.[/quote]

@TheStealthDude

You're stuck on something I'm not pointing out.
Let go of your ideas and follow the context of my statements. I'm not talking about my inventory or my bank.

I'm talking about gear
In today's access, there is equally a limited amount of gear anyone can have by BoE and BoP items having to sit in a players inventory, bank and in BoE cases, also a guild bank.

The competitivepiece incolves the items.
People become competitive most often by:

1. Farming gear
2. Buying gear someone else farmed

If areal money system removes the limits and raises the amount of items a paying subscriber can obtain but does not allow others any similar option, it creates a paid advantage when using this in context to competitive players.


Player 1 and player 2 obtain gear in the same ways.
-Player 1 can hold 240 + 200 or so items
-player 2 can hold 500 + 200 or so items

so player 2 by default can make more money, have more gear. Those two contribute directly to being competitive and this upcoming change allows it but also restricts it by a real money paygate.


It's not the inventory, it's the access to more items.
The number one complaint is RNG system. So ppl farm, but if now I can hold more, I can farm for me and a few others and therefore this is a clear advantage only accessible via real money.

It also applies to guild store locations. More items to sale and more money to bid

Pay2Win is when a paygate exists that gives the buyer a clear advantage over the non-buyer

This is exactly what's occurring.
What's in your bank?