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Civilian clothing should not be allowed in combat

  • Browiseth
    Browiseth
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    Juponen wrote: »

    none of those are "fantasy" attire though, it's traditional/historical
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • Tai-Chi
    Tai-Chi
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    Those criticising the arguments I present here only prove that they either got bad taste or doesn't care about it. Alternatively, they have not carefully read the posts I have written. Me writing this is arrogant, but aesthetics, unlike ethics, is not a democracy.


    I agree with you on two points.

    1. You do come across as being arrogant and -
    2. Aesthetics is not a democracy.

    Having said that, you also come over as being rather self-serving by saying there is only one point of view and that is yours. Any one who disagrees with you has either got bad taste or does not care. Do I spy a bit of a dictator in there somewhere?

    Ethics has nothing to do with democracy. A democracy can exist without any sort of 'moral' fibre in its bones and ethics can prevail in any kind of state.

    In my opinion, @Joy_Division , quite correctly stated that ordinary people wore whatever they could lay their hands on when going into battle. As for those monster helms, someone like myself could very well mistake the character for a Daedra or one of Molag Bal's Generals.

    As for civilian garments in Cyrodiil. Not everyone ventures into the region - or the Imperial City - to join the war effort. They are simply going about their own business and get caught up in the fighting, usually by being ambushed and attacked first.

    ESO was advertised as a MMORPG from the very beginning. It was not just a MMOG. If a player wishes to be a civilian - be it on their wedding day or a fun-day celebration or a fancy dress function - so be it. If anything, it adds a touch of realism to the battle areas. Or are you living under some kind of delusion that ordinary people do not get caught up in indiscriminate fighting?
    PC - EU (Main) & PC - NA
  • Skitttles
    Skitttles
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    Can't fight crime if ya aint cute.
    Skittles | DC Stem Sok and sumtimes Nertbled
  • Browiseth
    Browiseth
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    @Browiseth

    Of course I want to dictate the boundaries of what is considered beautiful and elegant in this game, or else I would not have created this thread. I'm trying to convince the devs that without boundaries the game will gradually become a freak show, and not in a good way, like Woodstock when that was new and provocative, but just tasteless cheese.

    Perfectly aware however that I'm probably on the losing side here.

    of course you're on the losing side, you're trying to tell everyone what is acceptable in a game that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people just off of your own "immersionist" bubble

    it honestly just feels like you can't accept the fact you're in an online world full of countless people with different ways of enjoying the game, as if you can't grasp other people like different things that you might not like; a common mindset i've seen in people coming from singleplayer elder scrolls
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • Pathemavan
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    Skitttles wrote: »
    Can't fight crime if ya aint cute.

    But now we have a paradox - because it's positively a crime to be as cute as I am

    *flips hair back and adjusts dress - in a manly way, of course
  • ChaosWotan
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    @Tai-Chi

    Historically, people did not fight in jester costumes or dinner dresses. They chose clothing that was as practical as possible, or they started fighting in the clothes they had when being ambushed. Showing up on a battlefield in fancy civilian clothes is not something a person would do (unless he was forced to). So going to a trial or into a dungeon dressed as a clown is not realistic.

    Aesthetics is independent of both democratic and authoritarian attitudes. Bringing ethics and politics into this discussion is irrelevant.

    @Juponen

    One can always find cases of silly armor from the history of warfare around the world. It doesn't prove anything.

    I'm just saying what I think, in the same way you guys are expressing your opinions. And it's cool that we can to that in a free society. And still have fun in the game despite our differences.

  • Browiseth
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    @Tai-Chi

    Historically, people did not fight in jester costumes or dinner dresses. They chose clothing that was as practical as possible, or they started fighting in the clothes they had when being ambushed. Showing up on a battlefield in fancy civilian clothes is not something a person would do (unless he was forced to). So going to a trial or into a dungeon dressed as a clown is not realistic.

    Aesthetics is independent of both democratic and authoritarian attitudes. Bringing ethics and politics into this discussion is irrelevant.

    @Juponen

    One can always find cases of silly armor from the history of warfare around the world. It doesn't prove anything.

    I'm just saying what I think, in the same way you guys are expressing your opinions. And it's cool that we can to that in a free society. And still have fun in the game despite our differences.

    comparing a video game to reality and treating the argument with legitimacy = the ultimate cringe

    come on chaoswotan, you're better than that
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • ChaosWotan
    ChaosWotan
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    No I'm not!

    Edited by ChaosWotan on March 27, 2017 4:42PM
  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    I gave up when the OP said irony was new in the 90s.
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    this game has way more "realism issues" than just people wearing costumes in combat
    IGN @ emilypumpkin, imperial pumpkin seller
    Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage & scholar of the ayleids

    High Priest Eraamine as a houseguest please C:
  • Katahdin
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    Do I think someone dressing their fat, male orc in a wedding dress is rediculous?

    Yep totally do.

    But

    I respect thier desire to dress their characters however they want. I laugh and move on with my day. It doesn't effect me otherwise and it's not important enough for me to make it an issue.
    Edited by Katahdin on March 27, 2017 6:40PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Stania
    Stania
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    Well... I want my own assistant to follow me while clapping coconuts when I pretend to ride to battle. Also a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch skill would be nice for my Templar (requiring to count to three).

    "Clothes should be gender specific."
    And pink-ish dyes should be blocked for males and blue-ish colors must be inaccessible for females.
    And while we're at it, provisioning should be the only skill line available for female characters.
    PC NA server
    ¡Hablo español!
    |vet trial #1|vet trial #2|vet trial #3 HM|Another vet trial|a hard-to-get achievement|
    My characters:
    <List of characters that no one cares to know with their classes and roles>

    "Inspirational quote"
  • BigBragg
    BigBragg
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    Stania wrote: »
    Well... I want my own assistant to follow me while clapping coconuts when I pretend to ride to battle. Also a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch skill would be nice for my Templar (requiring to count to three).

    "Clothes should be gender specific."
    And pink-ish dyes should be blocked for males and blue-ish colors must be inaccessible for females.

    Not before three or after three.

    Pink was originally the color for boys, as it is a light shade of red. Red being an aggressive and passionate color. Blue was the color for women. This switched during the 1920's as it became fashionable for women to imitate and adopt men's trends. The heal was another adaptation from this. Height being an attractive feature for men to have, heals were added to men's footwear to give them a boost.
  • Tai-Chi
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    @ChaosWotan

    Just for the record, you are the one who brought up aesthetics, ethics and democracy into the discussion, not me. I was simply responding by saying that, in my opinion, your analogy is incorrect.

    True, most people would not adorn "a jester costumes or dinner dress" to go in to battle - unless, of course, there was a specific point to make, or a stance to take. History has many examples of such situations.

    The point is that war is indiscriminate and when castles, forts and villages are sacked, innocent people get slaughtered and killed - people whom were going about their daily business. In this respect, a ball-gown with tiara, a penguine suit or Jester outfit become very relevant and appropriate.

    I totally agree that everyone should have right of expression and not be ridiculed for holding views that are different to one's own.

    Your comment labelling other players - whom do not share your arguments and views - as having "bad taste" or not caring is what prompted me to respond to your post. I care very deeply about this game and my friends would, no doubt, say that I had very good taste - but I could not possibly comment on that.

    You opened this discussion by saying "ESO is starting to look like a bad taste party" and nearly all your subsequent posts reiterate on this theme.

    I do not PvP, so in my opinion, if one of my Ladies ventures into Cyrodill - on her way to perhaps the opera in the Imperial City - wearing a ball-gown and tiara, it is not 'unrealistic' and it is not in bad taste. It is not her fault that Daedra have taken over the capital and the group of brash-looking young knights (in their shiny armour) were not comming to help a damsel in distress but instead to assault her, rob her and leave her as for dead in the streets. Gone are the days of chivalry.
    PC - EU (Main) & PC - NA
  • zaria
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Do I think someone dressing their fat, male orc in a wedding dress is rediculous?

    Yep totally do.

    But

    I respect thier desire to dress their characters however they want. I laugh and move on with my day. It doesn't effect me otherwise ans it's not important enough for me to make it an issue.
    This, on the other hand don't come here to cry because you was kicked from dungeon after cat jumped on keyboard causing an wipe. If you look like an idiot others has easier to see and treat you as one and get less margins.

    In cities everything goes, except that lightly dressed vampires should take sun damage, this is easy to avoid by dressing up.
    This one once saw an nude argonian vampire and want to forget.
    Edited by zaria on March 27, 2017 6:05PM
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Daemons_Bane
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    Historically, people did not fight in jester costumes or dinner dresses.

    I'm going to assume here, that at some point this have happened
  • Kodrac
    Kodrac
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    3458137.gif
  • cyclonus11
    cyclonus11
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    *throws petals at grumpy OP*
  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    I don't get mad, in real life, when I see people wearing silly fashions...why should anyone care about a digital avatar?

    Everyone seeks attention in someway. Some wear silly outfits - others get on forums and kick and stomp their feet.
    To each their own.

    Such wisdom in this one. Perhaps the forum drama queens should take notice...

    Ps. Hey op, your dress is showing.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    I agreed to both the crown wearing people and professional adventurers....What does that make me?
    Edited by Tasear on March 27, 2017 7:06PM
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    Just when I think the bar of what people will complain about is as low as possible, something like this comes along.
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Mattock_Romulus
    Mattock_Romulus
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    First of all, we are celebrating a festival based on April Fool's day. You are going to have an increase of people wearing silly outfits.

    Second, this game is not based in the real world at all, so drawing comparisons from real world garb is problematic.

    Ultimately, I enjoy the humorous outfits and will continue wearing my jester costume and personality for the remainder of the holiday. Afterwards, I will wear my Alliance costume and use my alliance horse as usual in PVP.

    However, I respect the right of other customers using a product as they see fit so long as it does not violate the terms of use.
  • The_Undefined
    The_Undefined
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    Sure it's probably been said.. but,

    Cicero would like a word with you >.>

    RfAC6.png

  • Molydeus
    Molydeus
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    Vulsahdaal wrote: »
    Well this one knows he looks stunning in new attire, and therefore cares not what that one thinks of it..

    HUZ5N1X.jpg

    That outfit, what is it!? It's awesome!
  • EldritchPenguin
    EldritchPenguin
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    lDtdeRn.jpg

    This is how it's done
    You have my stamp of approval, but I want everyone to know that I am not okay with this.
    Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight

    Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar

    Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer

    Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    The Wraith's Wedding Dowry

    Author: Voltha gra-Yamwort



    "The poets are right. There is something life-changing about being in love," said Kepkajna gra-Minfang, sometimes called the Wraith. "I haven't wanted to rob anyone or anything in weeks. Why, the other day, I saw the door wide open at a wealthy merchant's house, but my mind was fully occupied with what I should wear on my wedding day."

    "You have been out of the right society for very long now," frowned her friend Khargol approvingly. "You never told me what happened to your first husband, you know, the one the shaman gave you?"

    "Torn apart by ash ghouls," smiled Kepkajna dreamily. "It was rather saddish. But I know nothing like that would happen to Wodworg. No life of adventure for him. He's practically an Imperial. In fact, he is one. Did I tell you how we met?"

    "Hundreds of times," grumbled Khargol, reaching for his flagon. "He was your jailer, and he refused you food until you promised to marry him."

    "Have you ever heard of anything so madly romantic in all your life?" sighed Kepkajna, and then grew serious. "I was going to say that I hope my old friends will wish me well, but as Old Bosriel used to say, there's no point in hoping for what cannot be. We'll leave with the Imperial Knights for Balmora immediately after the wedding, but as long as we're in Dagon Fel, the gang will find some way of disrupting my love life and bring me back to the light. I know it."

    As the days approached towards the Wraith's wedding day, there was certainly something sinister in the air that Kepkajna could smell when she was not transported by heady bliss. Dark figures seemed to shift in the shadows and disappear when approached. She recognized the clothing of some beggars near Wodworg's cottage as costumes, but the mendicants hurried away before she could recognize which of her old gang was stalking her.

    But these moments of apprehension were few. Kepkajna was truly happy, making arrangements for the ceremony to be performed at the very dungeon where Wodworg had imprisoned her. Her father was long since dead -- another victim of the ash ghouls -- but her fiance's commander volunteered to act in his behalf. Of course, Kepkajna had to supply her own dowry. She spent every last mark of her savings of ill-gotten gain to buy her beloved a truly wonderful present.

    The wedding was set for the stroke of midnight, as is Orc tradition. The handmaidens, wives of Imperial officers, were busily sewing her into her gown of red velvet and fine gold filigree in the mid-morning. Dolcetta, one of the handmaidens, remarked that she had heard that Kepkajna had bought Wodworg a truly beautiful gift for her dowry.

    "Let me show it to you," Kepkajna giggled, dashing from the room half-dressed to her hidden alcove. The present had been stolen.

    The women were horrified, but the Wraith found herself merely irritated, not surprised. This was truly the old gang's style. They knew that a wedding ceremony without a dowry was marked as unlucky. She asked her handmaidens to finish dressing her quickly while she pondered what the burglars would have done with her treasure.

    The whole region was honeycombed with secret lairs and abandoned sites thieves used to store their loot. There were obvious places, of course, but after much reflection, she thought of where she would have put it under similar circumstances. Once the handmaids had finished, Kepkajna bade them to make certain that the ceremony went on as scheduled, and not to fret as she might be a little late. She wrapped herself in a shawl to protect her gown from dungeon dust and set off for the Shrine of Malacath.

    The Wraith had never before attempted to rob her own friends, and though she was peeved at them for trying to ruin her happiness, she had no interest in hurting them physically. Her style was to avoid conflict, though she knew it would be inevitable. The lessons her mentor Khargol had given her had helped her avoid the lances and blades of guards and Imperial Knights over the years: now she would see if they would allow her to survive a den of thieves and the unknown dangers of the Shrine. Without, most importantly, ruining her dress.

    The desolate place was so empty as she delved into it that she feared she might have made a miscalculation. It was not until she found the small room hidden down a long corridor that she knew she was at the right place, and that it was well suited for an ambush. She grabbed the chest with her treasure within, and turned to face the assault.

    Two of her old gang, Yorum and Yohr-i the Redguard twin brother and sister, were outside the door as she came from the room. They knew the Wraith better than to taunt her and immediately attacked. Yorum struck out with a left thrust of his blade while Yohr-i sought to rush her. The Wraith neatly sidestepped Yohr-i, while dropping her weight to her rear left leg, shifting her right shoulder to the left to slip past Yorum's strike. The twins crashed into one another and Kepkajna passed swiftly on.

    Almost immediately, she was set on by the Argonian Binyaar, his mace whistling through the air at her head. They had never much liked one another. The Wraith snapped into a duck, so the mace whacked with a tremendous clamor against the stone wall. Binyaar was thrown off balance, giving her a few seconds lead hurrying up the passage. Ahead she could smell the fresh night air.

    The last of her dowry's defenders was Sorogth, an Orc with whom she had shared a brief romance. It was he who Kepkajna knew had masterminded the theft. In a way and in context, she thought, his devotion to her misery was rather sweet. At the moment, though, she was most concerned with avoiding his barbed ax that seemed ideal for breaking her dress's fine stitchwork and the flesh beneath.

    Bending her knees slightly, bobbing to avoid strikes to the head, weaving her head to confuse Sorogth of her next move, shuffling her feet arrhythmically, the Wraith made an impossible target. She ducked inside his thrusts, sidestepped his swings, and then sidestepped his thrusts, and ducked his swings. As erratic as she tried to make her defensive moves, Sorogth still kept pace with her, refusing to budge from his position at the dungeon outlet.

    Midnight was coming, and the Wraith finally decided that she must end the confrontation. When Sorogth swung out next, she sidestepped to her left, swayed down, and ducked her head, so the ax whistled over her right shoulder. In that instant, his right side was exposed, and she reluctantly smashed the chest hard into his torso. There was not enough time for Kepkajna to see if she had killed him or merely knocked him unconscious. In truth, she thought of nothing else but rushing to her wedding ceremony.

    At precisely midnight, Wodworg and Kepkajna were united together. He was delighted with her dowry gift, a fine suit of armor that would make him the envy of other Imperial jailers. Even more, he was enchanted by his wife's tale of retrieving it from the Shrine of Malacath.

    "Did it occur to you to put on the armor when you knew that it was an ambush?" he asked.

    "I didn't want to dent your present," she replied, between kisses. "And I certainly didn't want to wrinkle my gown."

    In the lore, you can literally wear a wedding dress and go into combat. Just actually read some of the lorebooks and you'll see this isn't absurd at all. But you don't have to take my word for it!

    levar-burton-reading-rainbow.jpg
    Edited by Recremen on March 27, 2017 8:18PM
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Violynne
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    The only way this Cap'n Crunch Crown comes off my head is from my dead body or when the Jester's Festival is over.

    Got a problem with it? Have a bowl of Trix and relax.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Lucky Charms trinket to share with the fine folks in Tamriel.

    (ps: please don't be jealous)
  • KingKalbo
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    In PVP I run away from the dude in a dress as, they usually are running a troll build or got mad skills and are dropping enemies left and right.
  • Sigtric
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    @Molydeus

    I don't pay sub in order to run around in dungeons with clowns. But if u like that, then no point arguing.
    you however did not pay for their copy or their sub and do not get to dictate how other people play
    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    I talked to Sheo too, and he yawned himself into Oblivion when commenting upon the lame costumes.

    Have you seen what he is wearing?


    Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
    Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |

    Show Me Your Dunmer
    [/center]
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Browiseth wrote: »
    Juponen wrote: »

    none of those are "fantasy" attire though, it's traditional/historical
    True, however garish uniforms was common back then you fought large battles in thigh formations.
    It made it easy to see your troops and identify groups who was cut of or if the enemy was close to breaching your lines.
    Stealth was not relevant for large scale fights anyway.
    Same would be true in an fantasy setting, in Cyrodil zergs rules as large groups give both protection and huge damage potential.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
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