The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind
-
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quit
IMO they aren't commenting because they have made up there minds and really don't care what people think. They did the same thing with the Templar nerfs that came with homestead.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd8 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities8 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Is this how you react when people don't agree with you? You look like a child.8 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities
We get it your cool and have opinons. Please please keep going the way your going because at this point you are contributing nothing like how much of this thread is going right now. It will get shutdown for being unproductive and I quit0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities
We get it your cool and have opinons. Please please keep going the way your going because at this point you are contributing nothing like how much of this thread is going right now. It will get shutdown for being unproductive and I quit
You quit?4 -
Orjix✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.
Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)- Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
- Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
- Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
- Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks
this part annoys me, i run a magicka build but never use heavy or light attacks, yay!
0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities
We get it your cool and have opinons. Please please keep going the way your going because at this point you are contributing nothing like how much of this thread is going right now. It will get shutdown for being unproductive and I quit
You quit?
for being an i quit type of thread. most posts at this point are just talking about quiting. i quit threads are not allowed.0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys, we need to keep on topic and stop calling each other out or zos will close this thread.
Elites aside, those of us that already have trouble with sustain need this thread alive to voice our opinions and hopefully change zos's mind before pts hits.
I just ran my stamblade through vma and died many times due to running out of stamina. I have 1300 recovery and 90cp in warlord, 97 in the recovery one and still ran out of stam. It's too hard for me to get into trial groups to farm vo and I want flawless on my stamblade. If this nerf hits live, I may never get flawless. Before anyone says ltp, I've flawlessed on magicka templar, nb and sorc, so I know the mechanics.
Many players are in the same boat as me and this change will become an experience killer for the game.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP8 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities
We get it your cool and have opinons. Please please keep going the way your going because at this point you are contributing nothing like how much of this thread is going right now. It will get shutdown for being unproductive and I quit
You quit?
for being an i quit type of thread. most posts at this point are just talking about quiting. i quit threads are not allowed.
No this isn't an i quit thread, many people have made fair points about why we don't like this change, the fact that some said that they may leave this game because of it doesn't make it an i quit thread.
On the other hand you got so butthurt that people don't agree with you that you are twisting the narrative to get this thread shut down because you don't agree with us. Pathetic behaviour.Edited by JinMori on March 23, 2017 10:08PM9 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »OMG guys it's ONLY 16% skills cost increase. Atm I can fight 5-10 minutes in trial and end up fight having more then half magicka on bar sometimes even more then 70% same with stamina if healer provides decent support. It's really not so hard to manage resources in current meta and reducing it ONLY by 16% wont make devastating changes for PvE but will make it SLIGHTLY more challenging. For those who dont belive I can reccomend simple test. Bring healer that will provide support take off warlord/magician CP and do normal rotation on sturdy training skeleton. You'll see it's not that bad.
Wait, you beed sustain support for targ skele? Srsly? My not redguard stamina templar can sustain that long with no support utilizing caltrops. I thought my class got the bad rep. ;/
That was just simple test I reccomend to those who cry that game will be broken without warlord/magician. Fact You can sustain Your fight easily even without support only proves I am right and atm sustain is too easy. I was also talking about that 6M hp skeleton not 3M because I assume you think about this 2nd one. Now You can take off all CP's from warlord and try fight again You'll see it's not end of the world as some people thinks. Even if after Morrowind update we'll be forced to change 1 enchant into cost reduction still we'll get new portion of CP's that'll allow keep our DPS unchanged or even higher because I assume there will be CP cap increase.
Y? Caltrops base cost is like 8k stamina. Also why would I support a patch that looks like lazy blanket nerfing? It's going to effect different classes much differently than others. Stam dks/templars will feel it much harder. That's not balance, slightly tweaking each class in areas it over excells in is balance. This, this is lazy.
Also 6m targ health skely for example. Let's say it takes you 3x as long than something half it's life. So like 5 min. What's so bad with 5 minutes of sustain. 3m health dummy the expectations are 90 seconds. Why is sustaining combat for a minute and a half so bad in zos eyes when they seem to pipedream about glorious pvp battles taking forever.5 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Fanboi go away, we know who you get on your knees for.
No need to make it blatantly obvious.
Back on topicusmcjdking wrote: »mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?
None of that addressed the mechanics and enrage issues that WILL make it impossible for players that aren't pulling 40k-50k dps
So if they nerf that overland content and mechanics then sure nerf the CP otherwise GTFO with your trolling. There are dps race mechanics in place right now that take into account CURRENT CP abilities
We get it your cool and have opinons. Please please keep going the way your going because at this point you are contributing nothing like how much of this thread is going right now. It will get shutdown for being unproductive and I quit
You quit?
for being an i quit type of thread. most posts at this point are just talking about quiting. i quit threads are not allowed.
No this isn't an i quit thread, many people have made fair points about why we don't like this change, the fact that some said that they may leave this game because of it doesn't make it an i quit thread.
On the other hand you got so butthurt that people don't agree with you that you are twisting the narrative to get this thread shut down because you don't agree with us. Pathetic behaviour.
really? cause i see people yelling more at me to start b/c i dont agree with them.
im not twisting the narrative go look at the the posts. many people saying the same thing just to say they will quit.
i have made plenty of points myself, but people are just like bwaaaa elite you dont understand casual play bwaaaaa.
thing is, i am far from elite especially when talking about pvp. I am not a noob, but i also dont min/max to be competetive on leaderboards.
Everyone that disagrees with people that want the change just says o your an elite player and the game should not be balanced around you etc etc.
Im sorry but when i can walk into most dungeons and solo them no problem with pvp gear and setup there is a problem.
The main argument mentioned by many of you has been people will leave if they have to adjust to simple things and learn the basics. Im sorry but i can not get on board with that sort of mentality. In a game targetd for adults, there should be tings you have to learn in order to play. Currently that is not the case.
when the main argument against this is people will just leave rather then try a bit harder b/c they dont want to put in minimal work, the problem is with those people.
You yourself have contradicted your own arguments many times in multiple threads. It is really pretty funny.
The other argument is that why should i have to drop damage for sustain that is now fun. Come on now. How ridiculous. how dare you have to do more then just spam dps with no thought for resources.
This whole, i run out of resources all the time thing, perhaps the problem is with the rotation or skills or your build.
Guess what people, people below cp 160 are completeing dungeons and content every day. Guess what they dont have. 100 points into reduced caost and *gasp* they get **it done.
people have more reasons to claim false things against this change then they have to claim false things for the change. People dont want to grind new gear, make new builds, theory craft, etc which leads to more skewed numbers against the change. not b/c they have an issue, but because they are lazy.
Im not saying peoiple dont have problems with sustain currently, but that has more to do with how they play from the mechanics they use, gear they use, abilities they use, rotations, lack of knowledge of mechanics etc. The problem is people claim they would rather quit then want to get better at the game. Go for it. been through this plenty. So many threads like this in the past and the game is still doing pretty darn good. In fact, it is better today then 2 years ago.
Many people who say they will refuse to learn and figure out how to change and will just leave are not the type of people this game should be balanced around anyway. As i stated before, this game should not be balanced around elites or those players. bottom line.2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Things you have to learn huh?
Well from my experience a group made by noobs cannot even attempt to complete vet coa 2 or many other vet dungeons, so your argument is flawed again.
When i spoke about this argument i never contradicted myself, i didn't do this so called flip flops that you are accusing me of.
It's true i said that this change will ruin sustain, while it's true that i could have added with the current bis gear, it's also true that it was pretty obvious that i implied as much.
Having to regrind gear because of a change and being against it it's not laziness, it's a fair point, to get bis gear it takes month and months, most people don't have that much time, if you do, then it's a big problem, because it probably means that you don't have a job.
Combat is fine as it is right now, you can't sustain if you go full damage, but if you have a decent group you can sustain through support, and it should stay like this, what you and zenimax are suggesting is forcing people to run a specific setup, right now we aren't forced to do that.
So no, having 600 cp won't make a good player out of you, if you don't know what you are doing you fail plain and simple, even with 600 cp.
And lastly instead of nerfing players zenimax should think about making a completely new mode above veteran to appeal to expert players instead of nerfing everyone, the fact is that this is just a lazy way to make the game harder, and people don't like that.
Edited by JinMori on March 23, 2017 10:46PM5 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Things you have to learn huh?
Well from my experience a group made by noobs cannot even attempt to complete vet coa 2 or many other vet dungeons, so your argument is flawed again.
When i spoke about this argument i never contradicted myself, i didn't do this so called flip flops that you are accusing me of.
It's true i said that this change will ruin sustain, while it's true that i could have added with the current bis gear, it's also true that it was pretty obvious that i implied as much.
Having to regrind gear because of a change and being against it it's not laziness, it's a fair point, to get bis gear it takes month and months, most people don't have that much time, if you do, then it's a big problem, because it probably means that you don't have a job.
Combat is fine as it is right now, you can't sustain if you go full damage, but if you have a decent group you can sustain through support, and it should stay like this, what you and zenimax are suggesting is forcing people to run a specific setup, right now we aren't forced to do that.
So no, having 600 cp won't make a good player out of you, if you don't know what you are doing you fail plain and simple, even with 600 cp.
And lastly instead of nerfing players zenimax should think about making a completely new mode above veteran to appeal to expert players instead of nerfing everyone, the fact is that this is just a lazy way to make the game harder, and people don't like that.
i invite you to read all of your posts. go ahead. put them in a document and you will notice your inconsistencies and contradiction. I am serious very laughable. you have done it a bunch. not just in this thread either. In fact, i layed out in a very simple way in another comment about your changing arguments that.
I work, go to law school (last semester), have a long time relationship. I also dont have time to grind out best in slots. Sometimes I get 1 or 2 sets while on break or have some extended play, but def not BIS. To this day I have not got a good malestrom weapon to use b/c rng. Yet I will still find some time to get some here and there. Sometimes successful sometimes not. And when I do decide to grind out certain sets, it is far from months and months.
you CAN sustain by going full damage with no group. Hmm malestrom sees people everyday complete it with full damage and yet sustain. See that is the issue. people dont want to learn the game. Sustain does not just come from sets. Each class has several mechanics built in that are used to sustain them. SA, Dark deal, repentance, and many passives just to say a few. You get sustain from weaving in some heavys or maybe getting kills with passives from say desto line or the new mag steal. Perhaps you use LA shield to help sustain or get some mag back real quick from blocking a spell. there are so many mechanics that can be utilized in game if people take time to learn mechanics. Stuff that does not even tie into gear in many case. Peoples failure to learn the game is on them. Just b/c YOU cant sustain does not mean you cant. You dont need a group to do it.
as mentioned above it is far from having to run a specfic setup. Sure you can switch mundus, or glyohs or drop a damage set for sustain set which there are many different sets to be utilized to keep it interesting and theory crafters at work. But as i stated, there are so many diferent mechanics to be utilized in this game to help sustain. Mechanics and abilities that go unused because people just want to max dps and spam dps abilities without a thought to anything else.
Again, I am far from an elite player in pve. I simply know how to utilize mechanics and learn how to use differnt things to benefit myself. This is not about players thinking content is too easy as it is about not having to worry about anything but dps while in that content. It is not that it is easy, but that you simply just slot dps sets and dps abilites and that is it. It is pathetic. there is little engagment with the amazing mechanics that are available in this game b/c they can just be ignored b/c of cp. This is not about giving something to elite players to do, but to make the game more enganging and actually learn and think critically about the mechanics and tools at your disposal. A concept that seems lost on many people or simply just not wanted because you know *gasp* they actually have to put in a little effort.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are talking about the fact that i wasn't against steamers heading to zos to test stuff? That's the contradiction you are talking about?
Well in this case i have to say that i was hoping that they would have done better then this, and now i'm disappointed, and because of that my view on the subject changed.4 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭You are talking about the fact that i wasn't against steamers heading to zos to test stuff? That's the contradiction you are talking about?
Well in this case i have to say that i was hoping that they would have done better then this, and now i'm disappointed, and because of that my view on the subject changed.
no. I am saying you went from this will kill and break builds to a point where people will quite etc. To later saying that this change will make you need to change to 1 or 2 sustain glyphs to be back to normal so whats the point. Those two ideas are in direct contention with one another.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »You are talking about the fact that i wasn't against steamers heading to zos to test stuff? That's the contradiction you are talking about?
Well in this case i have to say that i was hoping that they would have done better then this, and now i'm disappointed, and because of that my view on the subject changed.
no. I am saying you went from this will kill and break builds to a point where people will quite etc. To later saying that this change will make you need to change to 1 or 2 sustain glyphs to be back to normal so whats the point. Those two ideas are in direct contention with one another.
In those post i meant current bis builds for dd.
The pure damage ones, i thought it was pretty obvious that i meant those.
Of course if you run 1 or 2 glyphs they will cancel out the nerf, it's pretty obvious.
Edited by JinMori on March 23, 2017 11:53PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe
Your attempts to crush dissent fail and become more laughable by the second.
Personally, I wonder two things, after thinking on the issue muchly.
I wonder, honestly, if a stat crunch will -do- anything at this point.
And I wonder if any serious look will be given at old content, and about new design philosophy.7 -
jlboozer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removed because =irrelevant drunken typingEdited by jlboozer on March 24, 2017 12:32AM0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
Usually people need to work to live, even if their job sucks or if they have setbacks.
Then they go home and play video games exactly to escape the sucky reality, the sucky job, the setbacks. They pay to escape that.
That should hint at the tiny difference, between being forced to work anyway, and having to endure the sucks with something you pay to experience a virtual, better life.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO10 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
Usually people need to work to live, even if their job sucks or if they have setbacks.
Then they go home and play video games exactly to escape the sucky reality, the sucky job, the setbacks. They pay to escape that.
That should hint at the tiny difference, between being forced to work anyway, and having to endure the sucks with something you pay to experience a virtual, better life.
Ok then. My bad. That wasnt a good analogy. That still doesnt change my point. The game will not die. It survived launch when it was a horrible game. People wont quit because this change wont have a huge impact for most people. I mean come on now. A new class, new trial, battlegrounds and morrowind. With all that coming and you actually believe that people will quit for a nerf to sustain that wont even have an impact for most of the content. Seriously?1 -
Banana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If your already a bit *** at sustaining resources like me. This is going to be a good kick in the nuts.10 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uhm I'm more of a casual player I guess (or just bad, I actually play all days but I can't do more than 22k dps and I really tried). I know that there are players that can do 100k dps but all my friends do even less than me. I know that we are going to do even less if they remove the sustain CPs, so I'm really worried, because I worked a lot to achieve the 22k dps and I'm already tired. I know friends that already gave up trying to understand this game dps, and I fear I will too.
Although I'd love a system where you have to THINK about resources more and less about animation canceling and getting a specific weapon or set; now I see that we are going to struggle more because those problems are not going away, is just another problem added. I wonder if Zenimax is thinking in the more normal players at all, which I guess are the majority?6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
Usually people need to work to live, even if their job sucks or if they have setbacks.
Then they go home and play video games exactly to escape the sucky reality, the sucky job, the setbacks. They pay to escape that.
That should hint at the tiny difference, between being forced to work anyway, and having to endure the sucks with something you pay to experience a virtual, better life.
Ok then. My bad. That wasnt a good analogy. That still doesnt change my point. The game will not die. It survived launch when it was a horrible game. People wont quit because this change wont have a huge impact for most people. I mean come on now. A new class, new trial, battlegrounds and morrowind. With all that coming and you actually believe that people will quit for a nerf to sustain that wont even have an impact for most of the content. Seriously?
...Wont have a huge impact? BWAHA.
As for 'wont die', depends on how you wanna define 'dead'. A large influx of players leaving and the company never recovering is what saw the buy to play change. (I refuse to use free to play. It's not.)4 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »Uhm I'm more of a casual player I guess (or just bad, I actually play all days but I can't do more than 22k dps and I really tried). I know that there are players that can do 100k dps but all my friends do even less than me. I know that we are going to do even less if they remove the sustain CPs, so I'm really worried, because I worked a lot to achieve the 22k dps and I'm already tired. I know friends that already gave up trying to understand this game dps, and I fear I will too.
Although I'd love a system where you have to THINK about resources more and less about animation canceling and getting a specific weapon or set; now I see that we are going to struggle more because those problems are not going away, is just another problem added. I wonder if Zenimax is thinking in the more normal players at all, which I guess are the majority?
22k dps is fine for vet trial -.-0 -
bunnydaisuki✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And those feelings of sudden, irreversible weakness and increased difficulty will cause the casual Players to leave this game en masse.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
No MMO on the planet can survive without that Casual player base.
None of them.
imo, it can be split into two groups that sustain MMOs:- Hardcore players who spend their money because the MMO P2W
- Casual players who spend their money for cosmetic
ESO is not F2P + P2W, so that leaves us with casuals that spends on cosmetic. And subs.
... and Crown Crates.
And stop feeding Bowmanz, you know he's farming comments, like his other post on General. Focus on the topic and ignore him.Edited by bunnydaisuki on March 24, 2017 9:51AMPlease don't feed the goat, kthxbai.2 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do.
Or it shows that there is no talking to you guys when you're like this... just saying.1
